Marcel Brands (DoF)

[MikeO]

17 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Bisto Tits wasn't made a board member.

I'd upvote that but then you might overtake me in the rep stakes, so think yourself lucky I didn't give you a red

[Palfy]

24 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Bisto Tits wasn't made a board member.

I know he wasn’t my point being just because you want to stay doesn’t automatically make you good enough, and Brand’s hasn’t been a success. 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I know he wasn’t my point being just because you want to stay doesn’t automatically make you good enough, and Brand’s hasn’t been a success. 

But he has. Quite clearly. You not liking him or not rating him does not mean he's not been a success. His employers keep promoting him, so he quite clearly is. 

[Gwlad]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

I'd upvote that but then you might overtake me in the rep stakes, so think yourself lucky I didn't give you a red

Note to self. Don't upvote Mike and inflate his ego

[MikeO]

1 minute ago, Gwlad all over said:

Note to self. Don't upvote Mike and inflate his ego

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Romey 1878]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

I know he wasn’t my point being just because you want to stay doesn’t automatically make you good enough, and Brand’s hasn’t been a success. 

But Steve wasn’t saying anything about Brands wanting to stay, just that he is here to stay because he keeps getting more power and more roles added to his job description. 

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

Sam Allardyce made it pretty clear he wanted to stay, that counts for nothing for me Brand’s hasn’t been the success some would like to believe. 

Not sure how Allardyce not wanting to be fired has anything to do with Brands being put on the board of three different parts of the club. It’s not even close to being even similar. 

[StevO]

Just now, Romey 1878 said:

But Steve wasn’t saying anything about Brands wanting to stay, just that he is here to stay because he keeps getting more power and more roles added to his job description. 

Exactly. Maybe if we could read his job description and maybe if we actually knew what a mess he inherited he might get more praise. But we aren’t privy to all of that. The man is clearly doing what Moshiri is asking of him. It might not be what every fan wants (world class players, who are young, who live and die for the club, for £2m each), but what Moshiri wants him to do is what keeps him in a job, and seems to give him more power. 
 

Him being put in these positions makes it obvious his job isn’t just to help put the squad together, there is much more to what is expected of him than that now.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

But he has. Quite clearly. You not liking him or not rating him does not mean he's not been a success. His employers keep promoting him, so he quite clearly is. 

Ok I get it now success is based on promotion and not results. 

[StevO]

10 hours ago, Palfy said:

Ok I get it now success is based on promotion and not results. 

But you don’t know the results the owner is looking for from him. None of us do. 

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

But you don’t know the results the owner is looking for from him. None of us do. 

Maybe not but I hope it’s better than 12th or 10th in the last 2 seasons, and I hope it was better than Bernard Iwobi and a few others he’s brought in, but you’re right I don’t know what Moshiri is expecting of him, but as a fan I’m only really interested in the progression of the team, not what he can save on stationary company car’s fuel ect ect.

[Bailey]

32 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Maybe not but I hope it’s better than 12th or 10th in the last 2 seasons, and I hope it was better than Bernard Iwobi and a few others he’s brought in, but you’re right I don’t know what Moshiri is expecting of him, but as a fan I’m only really interested in the progression of the team, not what he can save on stationary company car’s fuel ect ect.

We know Brands didn't source or sign Ancellotti (or indeed any of the previous managers) so you can't really hold him fully accountable for the 1st team performance.

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, Bailey said:

We know Brands didn't source or sign Ancellotti (or indeed any of the previous managers) so you can't really hold him fully accountable for the 1st team performance.

Yes I can

[Matt]

16 hours ago, Palfy said:

Ok I get it now success is based on promotion and not results. 

And promotions come as a result of succeeding in the eyes of your employer. 

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

Maybe not but I hope it’s better than 12th or 10th in the last 2 seasons, and I hope it was better than Bernard Iwobi and a few others he’s brought in, but you’re right I don’t know what Moshiri is expecting of him, but as a fan I’m only really interested in the progression of the team, not what he can save on stationary company car’s fuel ect ect.

His targets may not be as simple as league position. If he’s there to build infrastructure then we won’t see the outcome. 
I don’t think we can put everything that happens with the team down to him, he’s a part of it but maybe not as much as we think. 

[Shukes]

I do see where Palfy is coming from. Surely for someone involved in football success is a direct relevance to what happens on the pitch. 
 

We have been through a difficult time recently, as have a lot of clubs. But we still don’t seem to have the type of players that will bust a gut to win a game, or do their best to inspire and guide the team. 
 

Long term we will see how his legacy turns out, and I have confidence he is doing the right things behind the scenes. 
 

But as this moment stands, the club and no one in it have been a success in recent years. Our sleeping giant status is slowly edging towards a fossilised dinosaur.

[Matt]

33 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I do see where Palfy is coming from. Surely for someone involved in football success is a direct relevance to what happens on the pitch. 
 

We have been through a difficult time recently, as have a lot of clubs. But we still don’t seem to have the type of players that will bust a gut to win a game, or do their best to inspire and guide the team. 
 

Long term we will see how his legacy turns out, and I have confidence he is doing the right things behind the scenes. 
 

But as this moment stands, the club and no one in it have been a success in recent years. Our sleeping giant status is slowly edging towards a fossilised dinosaur.

So not excelling (certainly hasn't failed on his part of squad development, though its not perfect) means he hasn't succeeded? No, i don't see where Palfy is coming because its a part of his overall remit, a small part it seems. 

I think people forget the absolute circus he came in to. Moshiri came in and naively/arrogantly through money around thinking that would solve everything. Financially the books had probably never stronger, but he single handedly brought in Walsh who proposed and got the go ahead for some ridiculous transfers. The dickhead managers as well as poor ones, who weren't Brands choice so far as can be said for certain, who will undoubtedly shared their own transfer targets a so comprises have been made will also have delayed/altered his approach. 

Then there's his actual main job of organising the club, from youth devopment to scout network (which will take years if not a decade to see the benefits of), plus stadium development and EITC. 

But because a well meaning, overly enthusiastic billionaire threw some money around means that this 1 individual person is supposed deliver relatively instant success after decades of shite behind the scenes and in the squad within 3 years is somehow equal to him not being a success? I don't think some people understand how complex projects work, let alone basic concepts like time, sometimes. 

 

[markjazzbassist]

Matt we don’t forget because we still have a ton of deadwood that his remit was to clear out.  He’s done ok.  I’ve said my piece on him before his transfer record is no better than Steve Walsh a person most consider a fraud.  As to the other stuff?  Sure it’s all fine and dandy but as Palfy has said it’s a results business and mid table average for your tenure isn’t success thats mediocrity.  Who cares about the back room and how good he is in a meeting and how wonderful he is with Denise.  can you win a trophy now for being the best run club and nicest staff?  

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

His targets may not be as simple as league position. If he’s there to build infrastructure then we won’t see the outcome. 
I don’t think we can put everything that happens with the team down to him, he’s a part of it but maybe not as much as we think. 

It’s strange Walsh never got the same treatment, although I’m not saying he should have it’s just the double standards I find hard to stomach. 

[StevO]

Just now, Palfy said:

It’s strange Walsh never got the same treatment, although I’m not saying he should have it’s just the double standards I find hard to stomach. 

I don’t think it’s double standards. I think Walsh being our first director of football was given certain responsibilities, and from him spending so much time in Italy trying to buy anyone he could get his hands on, it seemed very much like he was there to conduct transfers. From what we’ve seen of Brands, his interviews and things the club have said about him, and now him being a board member right across the clubs activities, it seems like he is running a whole lot more of the football club. We already know he was tasked with restructuring the whole football side of the company, they made that public knowledge. The same was never said of Walsh. 

[StevO]

18 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Matt we don’t forget because we still have a ton of deadwood that his remit was to clear out.  He’s done ok.  I’ve said my piece on him before his transfer record is no better than Steve Walsh a person most consider a fraud.  As to the other stuff?  Sure it’s all fine and dandy but as Palfy has said it’s a results business and mid table average for your tenure isn’t success thats mediocrity.  Who cares about the back room and how good he is in a meeting and how wonderful he is with Denise.  can you win a trophy now for being the best run club and nicest staff?  

For the 10,000,000,000th time, it’s all well and good wanting to sell players, but you need someone to want to buy them first. You even describe these players as deadwood, who would buy deadwood?! 

It’s not the same in football as in plenty of other sports where a player can just be “traded” when they aren’t required anymore. Someone has to at least be willing to pay the players wages even if we let them go on a free, and the player has to be willing to leave. You keep blaming this guy though, because it’s his remit to sell. 
 

You don’t have the slightest clue what his actual remit is. None of us do. You’re making assumptions based on your opinion of him, that he must be doing a bad job. Many of us see that the owner keeps on promotions him, so our opinions must be that he’s doing something right. Our owner being quite a successful businessman wouldn’t keep him around and give him more and more control if he wasn’t. 
 

By this same token Denise and Sasha should also be dragged over the coals, after all, we’ve been mediocre and all of the executives should pay the price. 

[Palfy]

Just now, StevO said:

I don’t think it’s double standards. I think Walsh being our first director of football was given certain responsibilities, and from him spending so much time in Italy trying to buy anyone he could get his hands on, it seemed very much like he was there to conduct transfers. From what we’ve seen of Brands, his interviews and things the club have said about him, and now him being a board member right across the clubs activities, it seems like he is running a whole lot more of the football club. We already know he was tasked with restructuring the whole football side of the company, they made that public knowledge. The same was never said of Walsh. 

Well let him restructure the club and where they buy their everyday consumables from, and leave the playing side to others, I don’t mind him being a good office manager, I’ve read he’s looking to raid Barcelona again, I’m beginning to think he’s on their payroll as a sales director they seem to be doing better out of his special relationship with them than we are. 

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

So not excelling (certainly hasn't failed on his part of squad development, though its not perfect) means he hasn't succeeded? No, i don't see where Palfy is coming because its a part of his overall remit, a small part it seems. 

I think people forget the absolute circus he came in to. Moshiri came in and naively/arrogantly through money around thinking that would solve everything. Financially the books had probably never stronger, but he single handedly brought in Walsh who proposed and got the go ahead for some ridiculous transfers. The dickhead managers as well as poor ones, who weren't Brands choice so far as can be said for certain, who will undoubtedly shared their own transfer targets a so comprises have been made will also have delayed/altered his approach. 

Then there's his actual main job of organising the club, from youth devopment to scout network (which will take years if not a decade to see the benefits of), plus stadium development and EITC. 

But because a well meaning, overly enthusiastic billionaire threw some money around means that this 1 individual person is supposed deliver relatively instant success after decades of shite behind the scenes and in the squad within 3 years is somehow equal to him not being a success? I don't think some people understand how complex projects work, let alone basic concepts like time, sometimes. 

 

Matt do you live in some sort of clinically hygienic white cube that is blinding you from seeing what has happened over the last 3 years, I haven’t seen anyone say that they think we should have had instant success, but what has happened in those 3 years is a shed load of money spent a wages bill that is embarrassing with no improvement to show for it, but because Moshiri thinks he’s the bees knees we all have to, well not me mate as you rightly pointed out Moshiri didn’t have a scooby doo what he was doing when it came to hiring and running a football club, and for me that hasn’t changed, all the gear no idea. 

[StevO]

13 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Matt do you live in some sort of clinically hygienic white cube that is blinding you from seeing what has happened over the last 3 years, I haven’t seen anyone say that they think we should have had instinct success, but what has happened in those 3 years is a shed load of money spent a wages bill that is embarrassing with no improvement to show for it, but because Moshiri thinks he’s the bees knees we all have to, well not me mate as you rightly pointed out Moshiri didn’t have a sooby doo what he was doing when it came to hiring and running a football club, and for me that hasn’t changed, all the gear no idea. 

You can say the same about Bill, didn’t have a clue when it came to hiring people or running a football club. He got away with it for two decades. At least Moshiri, for all his faults, put his money where his mouth is since day one. He might not have got it right but he’s had a good go. 

[Palfy]

7 minutes ago, StevO said:

You can say the same about Bill, didn’t have a clue when it came to hiring people or running a football club. He got away with it for two decades. At least Moshiri, for all his faults, put his money where his mouth is since day one. He might not have got it right but he’s had a good go. 

While he’s throwing his money about we all suffer, Bill didn’t have money granted but what we did have was spent wisely, and we were a better team with better players with him and Moyes working wonders on the playing front, and no need for a DoF, I could name countless players acquired in them 2 decades for peanuts that put this team to shame. 

[StevO]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

While he’s throwing his money about we all suffer, Bill didn’t have money granted but what we did have was spent wisely, and we were a better team with better players with him and Moyes working wonders on the playing front, and no need for a DoF, I could name countless players acquired in them 2 decades for peanuts that put this team to shame. 

It wasn’t all rosey for his first few years. How many years from Bill taking over until Moyes got a steady team? yes Moyes worked wonders, but don’t forget how bad it was before that and the shit show Bill and Moyes inherited. Well Moshiri also inherited a shit show from Bill and it’s now Brands job to clean it up. 

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, StevO said:

It wasn’t all rosey for his first few years, yes Moyes worked wonders, but don’t forget how bad it was before that and the shit show Bill and Moyes inherited. Well Moshiri also inherited a shit show from Bill and it’s now Brands job to clean it up. 

For me he’s not cleaning it up he’s adding to it.  

[StevO]

9 minutes ago, Palfy said:

For me he’s not cleaning it up he’s adding to it.  

How? What exactly has Brands done wrong?

You might not think he’s improved the club, and though I disagree I understand, but to think he’s actually made the club worse? I just don’t see that. 

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

I do see where Palfy is coming from. Surely for someone involved in football success is a direct relevance to what happens on the pitch. 
 

We have been through a difficult time recently, as have a lot of clubs. But we still don’t seem to have the type of players that will bust a gut to win a game, or do their best to inspire and guide the team. 
 

Long term we will see how his legacy turns out, and I have confidence he is doing the right things behind the scenes. 
 

But as this moment stands, the club and no one in it have been a success in recent years. Our sleeping giant status is slowly edging towards a fossilised dinosaur.

I think that type of player you have talked about comes from the manager. 

Plenty of people were writing of City and talking of Pep leaving the club when they were crap at the start of the season as they had lost it. 

Those same people also questioned whether the Chelsea players had the stomach for the fight when Lampard was being sacked but now that isn't the case. 

As with any job, you will do more to achieve your goals if you buy into what it is you doing. I think that was a big part of the reason for the demise of Martinez. The players stopped trusting his methods towards the end of that first season and it was downhill from there. He seemed unable to win them back.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

How? What exactly has Brands done wrong?

Delph Bernard Iwobi for a start all equally as bad as any players brought into the club in the last 5 years, but on mega wages, Mina not because he’s a bad player, more because he was brought with an injury and couldn’t play for us for ages and the injuries have just continued, should have done his homework on him better when you consider what we paid and the size of his wages a woeful signing. 
If anyone else say Walsh was responsible for these signings there would be hell to pay, but because so many have hung their hats on this guy their not prepared to register his faults and mistakes, that’s fine everyone to their own, but the players I have mentioned in my opinion have added to the mess, so I feel justified in saying so whether it’s liked or not it’s happened.