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Marcel Brands (DoF)


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I’m with you mate , he is an absolute fraud. Some of his signings have been absolutely shocking  Digne is our worst LB since Baines both fucking useless, and as for that other Portuguese pile of

Bollocks to it we can play the statue at CB if needs be, couldn’t be any slower than the ones we have currently

Since Brands arrived at Everton the players we have brought in: 2018/19: Digne (£20m) - Key player, one of the best LBs in the league and probably trippled his worth Richalrison (£40

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  • 3 weeks later...
7 hours ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

As impressed as I am with the quality of the signings, I'm equally if not more impressed by the contracts. It seems like for far far too long it was 'you're a new signing here's a 5 yr deal'. Never understood that the club takes on all of the risk.  

Allan is 29 and his three year deal takes him to 32. James is 29 and his 2 year deal with an option takes him to 31/32. Doucoure is 27 and his 3 year deal with an option takes him to 30/31. 

If it's working out great sign him up to an extension and if it's not you don't get stuck with Martina/Niasse/Gylfi/Bolasie/Besic/Tosun. 

Yeah I saw that too and was shocked. Brands showing in that alone he is way better than 5 year 150k Walsh.

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9 hours ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

As impressed as I am with the quality of the signings, I'm equally if not more impressed by the contracts. It seems like for far far too long it was 'you're a new signing here's a 5 yr deal'. Never understood that the club takes on all of the risk.  

Allan is 29 and his three year deal takes him to 32. James is 29 and his 2 year deal with an option takes him to 31/32. Doucoure is 27 and his 3 year deal with an option takes him to 30/31. 

If it's working out great sign him up to an extension and if it's not you don't get stuck with Martina/Niasse/Gylfi/Bolasie/Besic/Tosun. 

You would have to be a complete dick to give a five or four year deal to players of 29 years of age, that’s the only reason they are shorter contracts, it’s not because he doesn’t give out long term contracts take a look at Richarlison, Iwobi, Gomes, Digne, Mina ect, personally I think you’re reading to much into what any sensible person would do with players of that age, and suggesting he’s had some sort of divine vision for doing so, when in reality he’s done what would have been expected from anyone. 

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2 hours ago, Palfy said:

You would have to be a complete dick to give a five or four year deal to players of 29 years of age, that’s the only reason they are shorter contracts, it’s not because he doesn’t give out long term contracts take a look at Richarlison, Iwobi, Gomes, Digne, Mina ect, personally I think you’re reading to much into what any sensible person would do with players of that age, and suggesting he’s had some sort of divine vision for doing so, when in reality he’s done what would have been expected from anyone. 

I think you’re right and people are on a high at the moment. Don't forget the recent 5 year deal given to Keane that had some surprised at the length of contract after a good short period following lockdown.

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1 hour ago, barryj said:

I think you’re right and people are on a high at the moment. Don't forget the recent 5 year deal given to Keane that had some surprised at the length of contract after a good short period following lockdown.

Technically, it was a three year extension. So it wasn't surprising in the slightest.

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8 hours ago, Palfy said:

You would have to be a complete dick to give a five or four year deal to players of 29 years of age, that’s the only reason they are shorter contracts, it’s not because he doesn’t give out long term contracts take a look at Richarlison, Iwobi, Gomes, Digne, Mina ect, personally I think you’re reading to much into what any sensible person would do with players of that age, and suggesting he’s had some sort of divine vision for doing so, when in reality he’s done what would have been expected from anyone. 

In many regards I agree. Plenty of dicks out there doing exactly that. Where I think this situation is different is in the profile of the three signings. Add in Richarlison and Digne and you could argue these three signings are immediately 3 of our top 5 players in the squad. To sign marquee players on team-friendly contracts at a club like ours is very difficult to do. The credit is more down to the profile of the player rather than the age I guess, should have been more clear. 

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26 minutes ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

In many regards I agree. Plenty of dicks out there doing exactly that. Where I think this situation is different is in the profile of the three signings. Add in Richarlison and Digne and you could argue these three signings are immediately 3 of our top 5 players in the squad. To sign marquee players on team-friendly contracts at a club like ours is very difficult to do. The credit is more down to the profile of the player rather than the age I guess, should have been more clear. 

Yes but only in hindsight are they 3 of our top signings, they could have quite easily have been flops, the facts are he is no genius he does give out 4 and 5 year contracts, but like anyone with an ounce of sense you don’t do that to players of that are 29 years old.

 I’m telling you now if he would have been here when Gylfi Schneiderlin Bolasie Sandro they would have all ended up with the same length of contract, he’s not the guy you make out that only dish’s out 2 and 3 year contracts, that was done purely because of their age not their ability or their profile. 

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2 hours ago, Palfy said:

Yes but only in hindsight are they 3 of our top signings, they could have quite easily have been flops, the facts are he is no genius he does give out 4 and 5 year contracts, but like anyone with an ounce of sense you don’t do that to players of that are 29 years old.

 I’m telling you now if he would have been here when Gylfi Schneiderlin Bolasie Sandro they would have all ended up with the same length of contract, he’s not the guy you make out that only dish’s out 2 and 3 year contracts, that was done purely because of their age not their ability or their profile. 

Again I think we agree on this we're just not understanding each other's points I guess. I'm not trying to make him out to be a genius. I just want to give him credit for getting these contracts right. I completely understand he gave long contracts to younger players as you'd expect. My point is that in order to attract names like Allan, James and Doucoure you have three things to sell: winning/Europe, contract, and 'project'. We obviously don't have winning/Europe. That leaves contract and project. From Brands' perspective it would have been much easier and quicker to sweeten the pot for these aging players by agreeing to 5 year deals when they're past their prime. That likely would have been enough to get them across the line. Instead he leaned hard on Carlo and sold the project. 

For example we get Doucoure at 27 on a 3+option contract. He's (seemingly) a far superior talent than Schneiderlin, Gylfi and Bolasie yet all 3 of them signed 5yr contracts at the same age. 

5 year contracts put all the risk on the club. 2-3 year contracts distributes much of the risk back to the player. It's definitely a sports culture difference between US and England. We're so quick to sign a player to an extension that still has 2-3 years left on their current contract. I've never been a fan of that. If you want to reward a player simply increase his wage and release clause. Nothing says you have to make the contract longer until there is 1 year left on it. 

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1 hour ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

Again I think we agree on this we're just not understanding each other's points I guess. I'm not trying to make him out to be a genius. I just want to give him credit for getting these contracts right. I completely understand he gave long contracts to younger players as you'd expect. My point is that in order to attract names like Allan, James and Doucoure you have three things to sell: winning/Europe, contract, and 'project'. We obviously don't have winning/Europe. That leaves contract and project. From Brands' perspective it would have been much easier and quicker to sweeten the pot for these aging players by agreeing to 5 year deals when they're past their prime. That likely would have been enough to get them across the line. Instead he leaned hard on Carlo and sold the project. 

For example we get Doucoure at 27 on a 3+option contract. He's (seemingly) a far superior talent than Schneiderlin, Gylfi and Bolasie yet all 3 of them signed 5yr contracts at the same age. 

5 year contracts put all the risk on the club. 2-3 year contracts distributes much of the risk back to the player. It's definitely a sports culture difference between US and England. We're so quick to sign a player to an extension that still has 2-3 years left on their current contract. I've never been a fan of that. If you want to reward a player simply increase his wage and release clause. Nothing says you have to make the contract longer until there is 1 year left on it. 

I understand what you’re getting at but in this instance there age had more of an influence on the length of the contract than who they were, I would also guess that Allan and Rodriguez wouldn’t have entertained even talking to us if it wasn’t for Ancelotti, and he would have been at the forefront of the negotiations, I haven’t looked but I believe you would be hard pressed to find many 29 year olds been offered a 4-5 year contract in the PL especially on the sort of money they are on. 

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11 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I understand what you’re getting at but in this instance there age had more of an influence on the length of the contract than who they were, I would also guess that Allan and Rodriguez wouldn’t have entertained even talking to us if it wasn’t for Ancelotti, and he would have been at the forefront of the negotiations, I haven’t looked but I believe you would be hard pressed to find many 29 year olds been offered a 4-5 year contract in the PL especially on the sort of money they are on. 

Yea fair enough I'm inclined to agree...especially since that would be a very tedious search.  Even if we want to assign different amounts of credit to Brands, let's just continue to marvel that Carlo is our manager :) 

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43 minutes ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

Yea fair enough I'm inclined to agree...especially since that would be a very tedious search.  Even if we want to assign different amounts of credit to Brands, let's just continue to marvel that Carlo is our manager :) 

In all fairness to yourself I searched and found that Arsenal I think offered Willian a 3 year deal at 30 nearly 31 I think, so it does happen, although in this case the extra year may have been an inducement because he was a free. 
Let’s definitely marvel at the fact Carlo is our manager and hopefully saviour. 

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11 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Technically, it was a three year extension. So it wasn't surprising in the slightest.

Technically you’re spot on but the point still stands as it extends him to five. Also let’s be fair other than a very good lockdown period he was average at best and I think most would argue that he could fall into the same bracket as others mentioned. 
 

.......unless Barcelona buy him for 50 million and I’ll eat my words! 

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5 hours ago, Palfy said:

Yes but only in hindsight are they 3 of our top signings, they could have quite easily have been flops, the facts are he is no genius he does give out 4 and 5 year contracts, but like anyone with an ounce of sense you don’t do that to players of that are 29 years old.

 I’m telling you now if he would have been here when Gylfi Schneiderlin Bolasie Sandro they would have all ended up with the same length of contract, he’s not the guy you make out that only dish’s out 2 and 3 year contracts, that was done purely because of their age not their ability or their profile. 

Spot on, if James was 25 he wouldn’t be getting a two year (option for a third contract). I think Brands has done well on the price negotiation front but as Palf said I think anyone with half a brain wouldn’t give a 29 year old a decent waged 5 year deal. 

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I think the better example is Doucoure. As Albany pointed out he is on a 3+ contract rather than the 5 years for the like of Siggy, Bolasie etc. 

Furthermore, I would imagine Walsh would have given James a 10 year contract if it would have brought him here and no doubt he would have been on 300k a week if Sandro is anything to go by. 

A big example is this: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-utd-alexis-sanchez-contract-22465769.amp

This is Manchester Utd desperate to try and get a player who was world class because he could have gone elsewhere (and I think was likely to go to City). Its very much in the same way James could have gone elsewhere or saw out his deal. These players go on bumper wages and an elongated deal because for the player its a form of security. One last pay deal in Europe before they either retire or bugger off to China for a year or two. That could have been us with James, but Brands hasnt done that. It doesn't mean he is a mastermind or anything like that, it just shows he knows the time of day. That is a huge improvement on what we had before and whilst it should be quietly applauded, there won't be any statues erected just yet. 

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3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I think the better example is Doucoure. As Albany pointed out he is on a 3+ contract rather than the 5 years for the like of Siggy, Bolasie etc. 

Furthermore, I would imagine Walsh would have given James a 10 year contract if it would have brought him here and no doubt he would have been on 300k a week if Sandro is anything to go by. 

A big example is this: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-utd-alexis-sanchez-contract-22465769.amp

This is Manchester Utd desperate to try and get a player who was world class because he could have gone elsewhere (and I think was likely to go to City). Its very much in the same way James could have gone elsewhere or saw out his deal. These players go on bumper wages and an elongated deal because for the player its a form of security. One last pay deal in Europe before they either retire or bugger off to China for a year or two. That could have been us with James, but Brands hasnt done that. It doesn't mean he is a mastermind or anything like that, it just shows he knows the time of day. That is a huge improvement on what we had before and whilst it should be quietly applauded, there won't be any statues erected just yet. 

Getting James for £12 million is the master deal the rest is just common sense. 

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12 hours ago, barryj said:

Technically you’re spot on but the point still stands as it extends him to five. Also let’s be fair other than a very good lockdown period he was average at best and I think most would argue that he could fall into the same bracket as others mentioned. 
 

.......unless Barcelona buy him for 50 million and I’ll eat my words! 

Plus Willian is world class and will always hold a sell on fee 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

yeah i've been thinking about this one.  overall in my opinion, he has done more good than bad.  he seems to get along with everyone and is a net positive, i think he should be extended.  i am wondering though if moshiri who we all know loves a big name is instead thinking of some big name retread, a leonardo, or someone who's worked with Carlo before.  

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Just now, markjazzbassist said:

yeah i've been thinking about this one.  overall in my opinion, he has done more good than bad.  he seems to get along with everyone and is a net positive, i think he should be extended.  i am wondering though if moshiri who we all know loves a big name is instead thinking of some big name retread, a leonardo, or someone who's worked with Carlo before.  

Moshiri wanted Brands from the off. 

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I will shocked to the core of we don’t extend his contract. 
Think this is a nothing to speak of, so let’s just make something from nothing article.
 

Brands is part of a revival, and Moshiri is an established business man. He knows the term... if it’s not broke!

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16 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Well, Digne was a bargain. He negotiated Rodriguez on a free transfer. He negotiated Doucoure for £16 million less than what we had been willing to pay for him. Branthwaite. Nkounkou.

Yeah negotiations seem to be very very good, but is there anything to suggest he actually handles them? And if so, how much of a say does he have in them? 

In terms of actually bringing specific players in, which i thought was his primary job role, from who you have mentioned Digne and Doucoure are the only two first team players I would imagine are his targets. Branthwaite and Nkounkou look good so far but all in all are unproven. 

I'm playing devil's advocate a little, but could he be a bit over rated? He talks the talk well, but has he done enough so far? 

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Zouma (L), Gomes (L), Mina, Bernard, Digne, Richarlison   

Delph, Gomes, Gbamin, Kean, Iwobi, Jarrad

Neils, Allan, Doucoure, James, Godfrey 

Since hes arrived these are most of our signings. Im not sure which ones are specifically his targets but we can rule out Richarlison, Allan and James. 

Just to add to his negotiation skills, we paid £25m for Kean, £27m for Iwobi, £27m for Mina, and £22.5m for Gbamin (yet to be proven). 

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30 minutes ago, Aidan said:

Yeah negotiations seem to be very very good, but is there anything to suggest he actually handles them? And if so, how much of a say does he have in them? 

In terms of actually bringing specific players in, which i thought was his primary job role, from who you have mentioned Digne and Doucoure are the only two first team players I would imagine are his targets. Branthwaite and Nkounkou look good so far but all in all are unproven. 

I'm playing devil's advocate a little, but could he be a bit over rated? He talks the talk well, but has he done enough so far? 

He’s our Director of Football so based on that I’ll go with him doing most, if not all, of that because I can’t go and ask Moshiri and I’m not going to guess.

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8 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

He’s our Director of Football so based on that I’ll go with him doing most, if not all, of that because I can’t go and ask Moshiri and I’m not going to guess.

I thought negotiations would be carried out by an actual negotiator. I don't understand it at all really. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

why would he go to roma?  they are a mess.  they signed Monchi as DOF and it was 2 bad years and he resigned to get out of there and then said the owner was at odds with him.  the next DOF Petrachi was fired less than a year later, he also hit out at the owner whom he said he spoke to 2 times in his whole time there.  he said if they got a different owner he would come back, they did not.

 

Marcel is a bright guy, he's not going to a shit show of a club like Roma.  he did due diligence for the Everton gig for years.

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1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

why would he go to roma?  they are a mess.  they signed Monchi as DOF and it was 2 bad years and he resigned to get out of there and then said the owner was at odds with him.  the next DOF Petrachi was fired less than a year later, he also hit out at the owner whom he said he spoke to 2 times in his whole time there.  he said if they got a different owner he would come back, they did not.

 

Marcel is a bright guy, he's not going to a shit show of a club like Roma.  he did due diligence for the Everton gig for years.

Heartbreaking too, even Francesco Totti left the boardroom which tells you everything you need to know. Roma are a phenomenal club, in an outstanding city and should be so much more. It'd be strange and disappointing to see Brands go there and I'd like to think that any money they offer him we would match. 

On the subject of Italian football, if you want to see how things should be done look at Juventus, relegated as part of the match fixing scandal but rebuilt and are now virtually untouchable. They don't get enough credit for me.

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ok i just said all that but i didn't realize they just got a new owner.  the shitty american owner is gone, another american billionaire has now bought them (just this summer).  i still don't think it's a great situation but this new owner could be trying to woo Marcel with wads of cash and his run of the team to try and build a winner.  

 

only way i see Marcel going is if Carlo/Farhad have another DOF lined up (Marcel's contract ends this summer i believe) and he just needs another job after this.

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