Blue Bill's shiny new stadium at the docks...

[Lowensda]

A 55k-60k stadium with the potential to expand it if we became successful again would be about right.

 

For me, i'd look at 50k, nice round figure and go from there.

[Makis]

50k with room to expand. 40k people in a 60k stadium doesn't look good and the cost is hard to justify. How many games a season could we expect to have over 50k?

[Guest John Burns]

Everton are a sleeping giant, 37,000 fans in an era where we have not been competing is very good, especially given the cost/inconvenience and ability to watch any game at any time.

 

I think we will get 60k in the right stadium with the right transport and with a team that is getting investment to challenge.

 

Let's be blunt, Goodison is a dump compared to other stadiums. Yes it has an air of authenticity etc but so does a load of shitty 1930 pubs with stinking toilets, you aren't going to take your family there.

 

I've had my car broken into twice, so has my brother, I've been on crowded delayed trains and by the time you get home you feel somewhat harassed.

 

A different experience will make the decision for many like myself find taking two kids to a game so much easier.

Everton are a sleeping giant for sure. They get 37,000 in a tip of ground right now. Yes, I feel your frustration. Have a state-of-the-art stadium with mass/rapid transit rail to the door, which is accessible from all over the Liverpool City Region and beyond, and linked to HS2 and HS3 when they come and they will turn up for sure. 70,000 is what the club needs. The stadium will be filled most times if not all the time. The precedence is Arsenal.

 

My favourite stadium is stadium MK. I occasionally have taken two young children there. The facilities are superb, the stadium is superb, a world away from scruffy Goodison Park, great atmosphere despite being half full (fanbase needs building up) and easy to get to in that region (by car, but the West Coast Main Line is adjacent if a station is needed). I see lots of families there and they have a family section. When I go there after being to GP it is like going from black & white into technicolour. Magnify that to 70,000 with mass transit rail access and we have a new successful EFC stadium.

 

Edited February 29, 2016 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

A 55k-60k stadium with the potential to expand it if we became successful again would be about right.

The fanbase of Everton is large but spread out somewhat. Money is about and 70,000 it has to be (attract Euro finals). If the gates are only around 50,000 then the top tier can be closed off like at Stadium MK, and opened when the big games come. I doubt that would be the case at EFC as the fans would flock in especially if it is easy to get to by mass transit rail.

 

I see the mayor Joe Anderson, when he was in London last week at parliament to announce the city's offer of £2bn to pay for the Liverpool HS2 link (which they rejected and MCR get it free), met Kenwright about the new shareholder. It can only be about the stadium. Joe is heavy on rail for the region at the mo'. Getting rail to the new stadium is essential for success and alleviating traffic congestion.

[Guest John Burns]

It would be nice to aspire to be like Arsenal and fill a 70,000 seater stadium, but that's what it is, an aspiration. It would take us 20 years to get there.

Arsenal filled 60,000 up immediately with a massive season ticket waiting list - and it has been filled for 10 years for EVERY game. For the lesser League Cup game and the likes they drop prices for kids etc. If EFC build 70,000 with fast rail access, it will be full each game. Even if initially it is not, the capacity is ready. Also the stadium would be filled about 5 or 6 games per year anyhow. A larger allocation to away fans of the larger clubs would fill the rest up somewhat. The Liverpool City Region over 2 million people. It will fill the stadium for sure.

 

BTW, the back row at Arsenal is 1,000 seats. Run that back just ten rows and the stadium is 70,000. That is an option they are seriously considering. Farhad Moshiri wanted to expand the Emirates, but was not even on the board despite owning £200m worth of shares at Arsenal. The value of Arsenal went form about the same as EFC to 1.3bn without any real big silverware being won. Compete at the top and they come.

Edited February 29, 2016 by John Burns

[MikeO]

Correct that is apart and irrelevant to the points I made.

 

How is it irrelevant? More people want to go and see teams that are winning things do they not?

 

50k with room to expand. 40k people in a 60k stadium doesn't look good and the cost is hard to justify. How many games a season could we expect to have over 50k?

 

That would be my option.

[StevO]

The major difference in London is that using the rail line is part of the culture of every day life down there. They have a tube station on every corner.

 

It would be great for me if Everton had a train station on site as I live about 400 yards from my local train station, actually, I'd probably have to change trains twice to get there, cant be arsed with that. I'll take the car.

 

But if I was going out on the lash after the game and I could jump a train into town, then maybe it would be helpful.

 

Really, I'm not arsed about trains. A nice stadium and good players is what I want. preferably a modernised GP, but if not, something a little more iconic than just four stands please.

[Makis]

Arsenal filled 60,000 up immediately with a massive season ticket waiting list - and it has been filled for 10 years for EVERY game. For the lesser League Cup game and the likes they drop prices for kids etc. If EFC build 70,000 with fast rail access, it will be full each game. Even if initially it is not, the capacity is ready. Also the stadium would be filled about 5 or 6 games per year anyhow. A larger allocation to away fans of the larger clubs would fill the rest up somewhat. The Liverpool City Region over 2 million people. It will fill the stadium for sure.

 

BTW, the back row at Arsenal is 1,000 seats. Run that back just ten rows and the stadium is 70,000. That is an option they are seriously considering. Farhad Moshiri wanted to expand the Emirates, but was not even on the board despite owning £200m worth of shares at Arsenal. The value of Arsenal went form about the same as EFC to 1.3bn without any real big silverware being won. Compete at the top and they come.

Everton doesn't have a waiting list for season tickets, so your theory goes flat right away.

 

Would RS fill a 70000 stadium? Why then will it only hold 59000 after the expansion?

[Guest John Burns]

 

How is it irrelevant? More people want to go and see teams that are winning things do they not?

You really do not get the business side of it.

Everton doesn't have a waiting list for season tickets, so your theory goes flat right away.

You might have noticed EFC have not moved to a new stadium yet.

Edited February 29, 2016 by John Burns

[Hafnia]

Everton must have some of the most passionate "sleeper" fans around. It's a special special club.

 

Look at games like bayern Munich, qpr to win the league, just a couple of years after 13000 at home I think MikeO refers to. When we get going we are a massive massive club.

 

I would argue that 70,000 is actually achievable. Many fans stayed away in the 80's because of tea terrace/hooliganism. The sky is the limit for Everton, I truly truly believe that, and I speak as someone who hasn't been to Goodison in 2 years.

[Guest John Burns]

The major difference in London is that using the rail line is part of the culture of every day life down there. They have a tube station on every corner.

 

It would be great for me if Everton had a train station on site as I live about 400 yards from my local train station, actually, I'd probably have to change trains twice to get there, cant be arsed with that. I'll take the car.

 

But if I was going out on the lash after the game and I could jump a train into town, then maybe it would be helpful.

 

Really, I'm not arsed about trains. A nice stadium and good players is what I want. preferably a modernised GP, but if not, something a little more iconic than just four stands please.

Another one who doesn't get it. One third of Merseyrail was not built - Thatcher stopped work. There is about 5 miles of tunnels and miles of trackbed awaiting reuse. Merseyrail alone is 67 stations on the old electric section and up to about 80 odd with the City Line. I would say we have a rail culture here for sure as Merseyrail is the largest and most used urban rail network after London. Maybe you do not have rail culture at the bottom of your street but many others have. Central underground station is the most used in passengers to platform length in the UK and its is a metro station. It is dangerously overcrowded as is used so much.

 

It is not about culture it is about convenient mass/rapid transit, which is also eco getting polluting cars off the roads. EFC can use that to great effect and also the fans. I would rather go to the local station and be taken right to the stadium's doors than take buses or sit in traffic jams and circle around trying to park. That can be improved upon greatly. So most places will have a station not that far away if the network is built to the 1970s plan and expanded even again. Joe Anderson is trying to get the works completed.

 

You have to make the club attractive for fans and give them the best in stadia and transport provision when building a new stadium.

https://localwiki.org/liverpool/Extending_Rapid_Transit_Merseyrail

Edited February 29, 2016 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

When we get going we are a massive massive club.

 

I would argue that 70,000 is actually achievable. Many fans stayed away in the 80's because of tea terrace/hooliganism. The sky is the limit for Everton, I truly truly believe that, and I speak as someone who hasn't been to Goodison in 2 years.

Good post. I stayed away in many 1980s games. I saw a Newcastle fan walking along off Walton Lane attacked with a Stanley knife. I never went to a game for two years after. I have also been at a 72,000 gate at Goodison Park.

[MikeO]

You really do not get the business side of it.

 

You're seriously suggesting that a club that has won one trophy in thirty years is going to attract the same level of following as one that has won twenty? And is in London.

 

I'd also be 99.9% certain that Arsenal had a season ticket waiting list when they were at Highbury.

[Guest John Burns]

You're seriously suggesting that a club that has won one trophy in thirty years is going to attract the same level of following as one that has won twenty? And is in London.

Yes. All analysis points that way. Look up Prof Tom Cannon on EFC fanbase.

EFC do not have a great season ticket waiting list because no one wants to go to GP because it is awful to get to and park near and the place is an antiquated not fit for purpose piss hole.

 

By the way, EFC won the FA Cup 20 years ago. Arsenal and Liverpool have proven that it is not about winning it is about competing at the top. Arsenal's and Liverpool's silver count was sparse but they were packed to the rafters. You don't get the business side at all.

Edited February 29, 2016 by John Burns

[Hafnia]

It would be interesting to see how many sleepers would go the game in a better, accessible stadium.

 

When on jury service at the end of last year I was able to get from my front door to the Crown Court walk and train in 35 minutes, that's amazing. Wirral to Liverpool.

 

I did some recruitment attraction analysis for work last year. Any commutes above 60 minutes trigger a negative response and ability to retain employees. The same psychology must apply to football fans.

 

If I was to go the game it would take me 45 minutes in total (car, park and walk to ground) or 75 minutes by train and walk.

 

To me. Goodison represents a big commute for most fans. The option to eat and drink in comfort and quality near the ground is poor.

 

If we get better rail access and parking along with localised food and drink then I believe it would bring many more fans in.

[Guest John Burns]

Everton's new major shareholder Farhad Moshiri will prioritise plunging money to the club’s stadium project and gradually increase his stake in the club with a view to a full takeover.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/everton/12176665/Evertons-new-billionaire-shareholder-pledges-to-finance-clubs-stadium-project.html

 

Also high on Moshiri’s agenda is a resolution to Everton’s stadium saga. The club have failed with two stadium projects during Kenwright’s tenure

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/27/everton-takeover-arsenal-shareholder-farhad-moshiri

[StevO]

Yes. All analysis points that way. Look up Prof Tom Cannon on EFC fanbase.

EFC do not have a great season ticket waiting list because no one wants to go to GP because it is awful to get to and park near and the place is an antiquated not fit for purpose piss hole.

 

By the way, EFC won the FA Cup 20 years ago. Arsenal and Liverpool have proven that it is not about winning it is about competing at the top. Arsenal's and Liverpool's silver count was sparse but they were packed to the rafters. You don't get the business side at all.

 

I completely disagree. Its so easy to get to, there are so many different places to park within walking distance.

 

Or have a new ground like city, where you cant get in and out on a match day because the road network cant handle the traffic. and they have a great tram network.

 

We've asked this before, John, what can we do to help?

 

What are you doing to convince the club?

[Lowensda]

 

I completely disagree. Its so easy to get to, there are so many different places to park within walking distance.

 

Or have a new ground like city, where you cant get in and out on a match day because the road network cant handle the traffic. and they have a great tram network.

 

We've asked this before, John, what can we do to help?

 

What are you doing to convince the club?

 

Answer: Nothing.

 

He's beginning to sounds a lot like Roberto. Banging the same drum, over and over again, hoping that someone, one day, walks up to Kenwright's office and launches several fantasy proposal rail plans in his face, to help him decide where's best to plonk his new shiny shed.

 

We've agreed with him in almost every capacity previously but fails time and time again to actually give reason as to his argument(s). We GET the arguments he puts forward but can't answer how we can help. Matt's tried on 3 or 4 occasions. All you get is this typical line of "you obviously don't get it".

 

I can bring more to the debate by including this picture,

 

 

Moshiri's new ride.

[Guest John Burns]

 

I completely disagree. Its so easy to get to, there are so many different places to park within walking distance.

You have not got a clue.

[Makis]

You might have noticed EFC have not moved to a new stadium yet.

Neither had Arsenal when they had a queue. Just like Spurs currently have.

 

How could Everton get that sort of crowds when our neighbours think they can't?

[Guest John Burns]

 

Answer: Nothing.

 

He's beginning to sounds a lot like Roberto. Banging the same drum, over and over again, hoping that someone, one day, walks up to Kenwright's office and launches several fantasy proposal rail plans in his face, to help him decide where's best to plonk his new shiny shed.

 

We've agreed with him in almost every capacity previously but fails time and time again to actually give reason as to his argument(s). We GET the arguments he puts forward but can't answer how we can help. Matt's tried on 3 or 4 occasions. All you get is this typical line of "you obviously don't get it".

 

I can bring more to the debate by including this picture,

 

 

Moshiri's new ride.

Nice train. Like the colour.

Talking to a bunch of footy fans gets you nowhere - few are bright enough. This is for your info only. To influence no one sane comes here. I go elsewhere for that. To people that matter.

 

By your reaction you do not want EFC to prosper with a new stadium with easy transport access. TRb Tranmere after Everton move. They will fit you. But it takes all sorts as we see.

Edited February 29, 2016 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

Neither had Arsenal when they had a queue. Just like Spurs currently have.

 

How could Everton get that sort of crowds when our neighbours think they can't?

Arsenal's line at Highbury for season tickets was nowhere like it is now. Get the big picture and get a dose reality. Everton and Arsenal were similar sized clubs in most respects.

[JoeQuince]

Nice train. Like the colour.

Talking to a bunch of footy fans gets you nowhere - few are bright enough. This is for your info only. To influence no one sane comes here. I go elsewhere for that. To people that matter.

 

By your reaction you do not want EFC to prosper with a new stadium with easy transport access. TRb Tranmere after Everton move. They will fit you. But it takes all sorts as we see.

John, you can't come in here, infer that the members of this board are useless dolts, and expect us to say, "you know what, you're right about everything!" You have an obsession over something that most fans see as a secondary issue. More rail is good, having rail stations serve a stadium, whether GP or a new stadium, is great. But, for you, this is the make-or-break issue. Many other fans, who would like to see this club do well, care about stadiums (without major consideration for rail), increasing commercial revenues, getting out of bad business deals, putting a winning product on the pitch, etc. And, they don't see everything they want for the future of Everton hinging on whether or not fans can ride the train up to the stadium. Your obsessive nature over this one object has me thinking you're either autistic or a paranoid schizophrenic. Maybe people don't listen to you because they can see that you're not right?

[Lowensda]

John, you can't come in here, infer that the members of this board are useless dolts, and expect us to say, "you know what, you're right about everything!" You have an obsession over something that most fans see as a secondary issue. More rail is good, having rail stations serve a stadium, whether GP or a new stadium, is great. But, for you, this is the make-or-break issue. Many other fans, who would like to see this club do well, care about stadiums (without major consideration for rail), increasing commercial revenues, getting out of bad business deals, putting a winning product on the pitch, etc. And, they don't see everything they want for the future of Everton hinging on whether or not fans can ride the train up to the stadium. Your obsessive nature over this one object has me thinking you're either autistic or a paranoid schizophrenic. Maybe people don't listen to you because they can see that you're not right?

 

Edited February 29, 2016 by Lowensda

[Guest John Burns]

John, you can't come in here, infer that the members of this board are useless dolts

I can and some clearly are. I don't have to come here, I get no kick out of it. What am I doing about it then? they asked. If I was doing something I wouldn't come here would I? Some of the replies are just plain inane. OK I can ignore them. But some are funny.

[Guest John Burns]

And, they don't see everything they want for the future of Everton hinging on whether or not fans can ride the train up to the stadium.

Because they have no business acumen. Look at the Arsenal link.

Your obsessive nature over this one object has me thinking you're either autistic or a paranoid schizophrenic.

My God he is a psychiatrist now. I rarely come here. I find few here add value.

Edited February 29, 2016 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

 

He must be clapping at his gold train..

 

[Guest John Burns]

Daily Mirror:

 

It is the new investment that will be the key to Everton's future, with Moshiri paying far less for his stake than has been reported – sources suggest as little as £30m, but with the promise of investment to help build a new stadium.

[Guest John Burns]

Echo:

The 60-year-old met with the Arsenal Supporters’ Trust on a number of occasions and spelt out what his plans would be, if able to get into a position of power at the club. But unable to land a seat in the boardroom, Moshiri became exasperated with the situation and so has turned to Everton. The Arsenal supporters who met with the Iranian found him to be very business-like but his enthusiasm to be more involved with the running of the club - and investing in it - was clear.

 

They were left with the distinct impression that he viewed his role at a Premier League football club as hands-on and not one where he would be happy to just sit on his investment.

[London Blue]

Earle wouldn't of sold his shares for anything less than market value.