Blue Bill's shiny new stadium at the docks...

[Guest John Burns]

Transport links are pretty irrelevant.

I can't believe anyone would ever write that. Maybe 60,000 should all walk to Gilmoss.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/Rapid-Transit-Football.html

 

For the past 10 years the 60,000 Emirates stadium at Arsenal has been full for every game. This is unprecedented in the world.

Why? The put the stadium around a whole bunch rapid-transit stations to ensure the fans get there and back fast and in comfort. There is a total of 27 platforms around the stadium within 10 minutes walk. Transport is ultra essential.

Edited May 18, 2016 by John Burns

[Makis]

And Emirates is soooo far from the city.

 

Transport links are irrelevant if the stadium is somewhere like Croxteth or Halewood. The club could not get non-matchday events.

[Guest John Burns]

And Emirates is soooo far from the city.

The club could not get non-matchday events.

They non-matchday revenue at GP now is minuscule. It will not be great at Anfield either. No one is going to prefer Anfield over a city centre location for non-footy stuff. Finch Farm is the best location. Al it needs is EFC to start the ball rolling. Forget pie in the sky Commonwealth games.

 

Read what I wrote about the Emirates and read the link.

 

"Transport links are irrelevant if the stadium is somewhere like Croxteth or Halewood."

"You really don't get it! No idea.

Edited May 18, 2016 by John Burns

[Makis]

No it's not. Finch Farm would be a horrible location that would kill the club and turn it into a Championship club in ten years.

 

The non-matchday income is key. I don't know about Anfield's non-matchday revenue, but many clubs have significant income from them and that should be the main reason to build a new stadium in the first place. If that's not important the club should just rebuild Goodison Park.

 

And just because you think you are clever doesn't make you one. You seem to portray certain mental characteristics. Not saying you have them but you demonstrate them in your posts.

 

BTW, if transport links are the only thing you care about why are you against a city centre stadium? Unless you imagine links are just as good to Halewood as they are to city centre, of course...

[StevO]

One problem John, Everton are not interested in Finch Farm as an option. Maybe tell the club your thoughts on this?

[Makis]

I'm worried they might be interested in Stonebridge Cross. Finch Farm is thankfully not on the agenda.

[markjazzbassist]

I'm worried they might be interested in Stonebridge Cross. Finch Farm is thankfully not on the agenda.

 

for those of us that don't live in liverpool can someone explain the stonebridge cross site to us? is it in the suburbs? countryside? in the city but not city centre. what's it like, etc.

[Paddock]

ook up East Lancashire Road Croxteth on Google maps Mark, there's a road called Stonebridge Lane. Look up the East Lancs heading away from Liverpool, (Stonebridge Lane should be on your right) just after that there is some land on the left, it's there. Not far from destination Kirkby in all honestly.

[Newty82]

Personally I think transport links for the new stadium are essential. Just to ease congestion and make the fan/customer experience the best it can be.

 

Not sure how that influences the building site but I reckon it's an important element to factor in.

[Guest John Burns]

No it's not. Finch Farm would be a horrible location that would kill the club and turn it into a Championship club in ten years.

 

The non-matchday income is key. I don't know about Anfield's non-matchday revenue, but many clubs have significant income from them and that should be the main reason to build a new stadium in the first place. If that's not important the club should just rebuild Goodison Park.

 

And just because you think you are clever doesn't make you one. You seem to portray certain mental characteristics. Not saying you have them but you demonstrate them in your posts.

 

BTW, if transport links are the only thing you care about why are you against a city centre stadium? Unless you imagine links are just as good to Halewood as they are to city centre, of course...

Non-matchday income is toffee on the top. The key income is PL TV income - the bottom club gets £99. A 65,000 stadium complete with all bars, restaurants and cafes in the complex is where stadium income comes from. But you have to get them there and out in comfort and fast and and well connected, like a metro type of thingy - hey presto!!!! the Liverpool City Region has one called Merseyrail. BTW, someone who dismisses transport links (Kirkby was turned down because of them) doesn't have much a clue what makes stadia successful. Sorry mate you just do not have it.

 

One problem John, Everton are not interested in Finch Farm as an option. Maybe tell the club your thoughts on this?

I have. I do not think it will happen. But by far it is the best option. EFC are clearly not interested in GP for sure.

 

I'm worried they might be interested in Stonebridge Cross. Finch Farm is thankfully not on the agenda.

You should be worried as Stonebridge is a bad site. Finch Farm should be on the agenda. They are actually building a stadium there.

Edited May 18, 2016 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

 

for those of us that don't live in liverpool can someone explain the stonebridge cross site to us? is it in the suburbs? countryside? in the city but not city centre. what's it like, etc.

Where the A580 meets the M57. It is between the: A580, Stonebridge Lane and Parkside Lane. A crap site. The site opposite, over the A580 the water treatment site, is better and was offered to EFC about 10 years ago.

 

 

North Docks. It may be on the land inland from the Dock Rd:

Edited May 18, 2016 by John Burns

[Louis]

for those of us that don't live in liverpool can someone explain the stonebridge cross site to us? is it in the suburbs? countryside? in the city but not city centre. what's it like, etc.

Stonebridge Cross:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4580305,-2.9049167,832m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

Waterfront:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4183807,-3.0011851,832m/data=!3m1!1e3

Everton ARE to build a stadium at Finch Farm, a 5,000 seater youth stadium. And if the city of Liverpool incorporated Knowsley into the city as the boundaries commission suggested about 10-15 years ago, the site would be inside the city limits. It is just a matter of time before Knowsley IS inside Liverpool. Liverpool rejected Knowsley at the time as the admin could not cope with the new work load.[/size][/color]

Where's that figure from ? I've only seen the plan for 250 seats.

[StevO]

Lets just hope the new stadium will have great transport links, plenty of room to expand should we need it, good facilities, a proper museum, and not just some crappy bowl.

[pete0]

It's not that close to the station and I can't see the transport links being that good, bare in mind you'd have to make it good enough that 40,000 people aren't going to slow down an ambulance on one road.

[EFC-Paul]

The only decent option that I can see personally (not a local so my logistics aren't as good as many) is the Trafalgar docks

 

Peel have dragged their feet for a few years on their original plans of redevelopment on the site so either buy back some of the land (costly I know) or work in partnership with them

 

It has rail links fairly close that could be extended to or closer to the site, plenty of land with the opportunity to add commercial retail and leisure outlets

 

It does seem though that the council are pushing for Stonebridge it almost seems like they are saying if you want it it's yours but are putting emphasis on the other ootions being fairly complicated

[plaidharper]

Pros & Cons of WHP, Stonebridge Cross, North Docks, and Finch Farm have all been discussed. Is there anywhere else they could build?

 

Ha, EFC-Paul answered my question as I was typing. Is Trafalgar something they have looked at before?

[Guest John Burns]

Trafalgar Dock is in a WHS buffer zone. There is the site at Edge Lane, even Edge Hill rail sidings. 20 years ago EFC had a number of sites to choose, few are left.

[johnh]

Liverpool Echo website seems to favour the Clarence Graving Dock site on Regent Road. Wherever it ends up I think it should be within City boundaries. It would be a shame if it emigrated.

[StevO]

The docks are perfect really. Nothing to do with being easier for me to get there,and being able to park at the office and walk down. Honest.

[EFC-Paul]

Trafalgar Dock is in a WHS buffer zone. There is the site at Edge Lane, even Edge Hill rail sidings. 20 years ago EFC had a number of sites to choose, few are left.

 

With it being a buffer zone John where does that leave us in terms of being able to build? From what I've read Peel where given the green light to build skyscrapers some years back so I don't see why a stadium would impact the heritage status?

[Makis]

Liverpool Echo website seems to favour the Clarence Graving Dock site on Regent Road. Wherever it ends up I think it should be within City boundaries. It would be a shame if it emigrated.

Funnily enough I was suggesting Trafalgar Docks just yesterday but the tract of land I was thinking about was actually this. Would be a brilliant location.

[Guest John Burns]

With it being a buffer zone John where does that leave us in terms of being able to build? From what I've read Peel where given the green light to build skyscrapers some years back so I don't see why a stadium would impact the heritage status?

Cities that apply for WHS tend to be protecting and enhancing their heritage. Liverpool had the Albert Dock, which was there and just smartened up a lot. Nothing was added. Overall the city did little. So UNESCO goes along with it thinking Liverpool is serious and is to do a good job of the historic docks and awards the status on heritage grounds and also that the city will maintain the history and heritage. Liverpool did nothing of the sort. Salthouse Dock is now an inland canal boat berthing point. Longboats were not a part of the history of the deep water dock. A maritime museum being built is not enough.

 

As I have noted, UNESCO called in Liverpool's status after looking at the Liverpool Waters plans. There was little in it heritage related. A part of the WHS status is that the biggest migration of people in the world, to the New World, most sailed from Liverpool. That must be recognised in any constructions. The now filled in Clarence Dock (the outline of the original granite quays can still be seen from Google Earth) was the dock where the Irish boats docked. Millions of famine victims went through the dock gates as the plaque states, including members of the American Kennedy family. Waterloo Dock was were most of the American packet ships docked. Peel wanted to fill in West Waterloo Dock, and still do.

 

Plonking a large inappropriate concrete and steel football stadium on one of these historic docks, whether filled in or not, may end Liverpool's WHS status. If Peel excavated Clarence Dock restoring the water and built around it with some touches to history then UNSCO may go along with it. Peel, a Manchester company with no idea of the maritime history of Liverpool, pay no attention to heritage. They are primarily a land company. They like filling in docks to create lucrative land. They look to the long term.

 

A stadium to the east of the Dock Rd, eliminating the eyesore ramshackle businesses there, near a rail line is great, but not on the historical docks.

 

Joe would be better trying to get Knowlsey into Liverpool and build on Finch Farm, which is by far the best site.

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

Liverpool has lots of low grade office space to rent. Grade A space is not available, so companies who would like to locate in the city look 30 miles down the road. The Business Quarter is planned to move north and space is supposed to be reserved for that use. Even Liverpool Waters would have a substantial level of Garde A office space. A stadium would impinge on all that. Not the right building or in the right place.

 

Also! If a stadium 'regenerates' an area, which I seriously doubt they do, then building one on Liverpool Waters which is also regeneration is replacing one scheme with another. Having Liverpool Waters and a stadium elsewhere gives two regeneration project not one.

 

The Stonebridge site was for Amazon. Residential houses were cleared for the site, to great protests from the whole area. Now they are to put a big stadium butting up to residential homes? That shows gross contempt towards people.

[Paddock]

Building a stadium by Finch Farm is just stupid, sorry if that hurts your feelings John Boy I know you're a bit sensitive when people call you out for talking absolute shite like you do but it just is. There's NOTHING there, no pubs, noshops, no food outlets, no train station nothing.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Paddock

[Guest John Burns]

Building a stadium by Finch Farm is just stupid, sorry if that hurts your feelings John Boy I know you're a bit sensitive when people call you out for talking absolute shite like you do but it just is. There's NOTHING there, no pubs, noshops, no food outlets, no train station nothing.

A brain of Britain here. Oh yerrr. Ad hom attacks so has no case.

Look at the map before typing, it is easier that way. The large 'O' is Halewood. The site is surrounded by rail lines, Mway junction, trunk roads and even an airport. The rail lines can also serve Hale village, Speke and the Airport, so the city gains big time. The rail lines that can be run in are in pretty colours. The whole of the Liverpool City Region could get there by mass-transit Merseyrail. Most fans would go via fast rail right to the door.

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by John Burns

[StevO]

I still don't think you can assume most fans will go by mass transit rail if it's there. It might be a if help having train stations near the stadium, that doesn't mean there is a station near most of the fans homes.

I could very easily get the train to the match, I know I'm only one example, but it just doesn't fit into my life. I tend to be busy before and after the match, so it's just easier for me to get in the car. Again, to save getting my head kicked in, I know I'm just one example. But all of my friends and family drive to the match, I don't see many of them changing. Unless we move to FF as my mate lives about two miles down the road, he might just walk.

[Makis]

Well, according to the poll on the Echo site, 85% of the fans want a waterfront stadium.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/could-new-everton-stadium-prove-11358133

 

 

[barryj]

Well, according to the poll on the Echo site, 85% of the fans want a waterfront stadium.

That includes me

[pete0]

Any where near the airport will make it more difficult for people from North Liverpool, Sefton and Kirkby regardless of choo choo trains.

Waterfront would be best as then no one would have to get more than one journey on public transport to the match.