markjazzbassist Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 yeah he needs a full run out, just see what he's got and can offer, iwobi and bernard are not the answers. maybe this kid is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 On 29/10/2020 at 19:27, Romey 1878 said: https://www.evertonfc.com/news/1878880/everton-forward-gordon-opens-up-on-ancelotti-conversation?fbclid=IwAR2oI7pTrKK1eSty1_dWqoRQc_Dn31dUjLEFGb_N6ekzm7pQOdccpbD-F5w Another youngster with maturity it seems. I hope he plays on Sunday in place of Iwobi, he couldn't possibly be any worse. Reminds me of Richarlison in a few ways but ultimately also seems so humble and grounded. We play him and he could put in a bad performance or two but I really think he would look at them and work on his game to better himself. Real talent Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 On 29/10/2020 at 13:12, markjazzbassist said: yeah he needs a full run out, just see what he's got and can offer, iwobi and bernard are not the answers. maybe this kid is. In some ways this is part of the problem as all of these players are in and out of the starting 11 all the time or just coming off the bench when it is hard to get up to speed. Players out of the side low on confidence then try and "perform" when they get the chance and it backfires. I just want one of them, and I don't particularly care who it is, to be able to come in and do the basics, play solidly and help the team get a result. StevO and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 56 minutes ago, Bailey said: In some ways this is part of the problem as all of these players are in and out of the starting 11 all the time or just coming off the bench when it is hard to get up to speed. Players out of the side low on confidence then try and "perform" when they get the chance and it backfires. I just want one of them, and I don't particularly care who it is, to be able to come in and do the basics, play solidly and help the team get a result. And yet carlo himself said top players don’t need to do that. They just come in and perform, like James and Allan when we bought them 2 or 3 days before a match. They did well. Gordon isn’t there yet but bernard and iwobi have been given plenty of chances and done fuck all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: And yet carlo himself said top players don’t need to do that. They just come in and perform, like James and Allan when we bought them 2 or 3 days before a match. They did well. Gordon isn’t there yet but bernard and iwobi have been given plenty of chances and done fuck all Well a lot of good players do, especially young players in Gordon's case. Neither Iwobi nor Bernard have had a run under Carlo. When Bernard did under Silva he played well consistently. Ideally you do want player who can come in, play their part, and then go back to being on the fringes but there are lots of players who just can't do that. I would say when both Rooney and Kane aren't sharp they would both be very average, especially the former. They were/are both excellent players. It is something you see at all levels of sport. Some people need to have games under their belt to be at their best. Some are straight at it from the first minute. It's all about that funny thing between our ears. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 He needs to start against Man U - he’s the nearest thing we have to Richarlison (albeit nowhere near as good) and will put the graft in tracking back that Iwobi and Bernard lack. Very disappointed that he didn’t start over Gomes or Gylfi today. Btay, Zoo 2.0, Romey 1878 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 35 minutes ago, c1982 said: He needs to start against Man U - he’s the nearest thing we have to Richarlison (albeit nowhere near as good) and will put the graft in tracking back that Iwobi and Bernard lack. Very disappointed that he didn’t start over Gomes or Gylfi today. It was criminal that he didn't even get on. Matt, StevO and Btay 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 I'm not necessarily his biggest fan but I am also amazed he didn't get on the pitch. He could offer the width, pace and drive that we sorely lacked. Matt and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2020 Nice little assist for him for the U23s today. Gwlad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted November 8, 2020 Report Share Posted November 8, 2020 Needs a loan in January if we can get him one. See how he gets on in the Championship. Don't think carlo wants to risk playing him at the minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted November 8, 2020 Report Share Posted November 8, 2020 I cant see how he hasn't got minutes with Richarlison out & Bernard/Iwobi only offering 15/20 minutes performances when they are starting. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 9, 2020 Report Share Posted November 9, 2020 17 hours ago, Btay said: I cant see how he hasn't got minutes with Richarlison out & Bernard/Iwobi only offering 15/20 minutes performances when they are starting. I am surprised. It's not as if anyone has come in and staked a claim and is keeping Gordon out of the side. Matt and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted November 9, 2020 Report Share Posted November 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Bailey said: I am surprised. It's not as if anyone has come in and staked a claim and is keeping Gordon out of the side. Exactly, i like Bernard but for one of his positives he has a negative. Iwobi is absolutely frustrating because the moment he shows a glimpse of what he could be he reverts back to his "usual" self. Gordon is just a direct winger, he might come in and not perform but his ceiling is not set yet and the more opportunity we give him now the higher that ceiling goes in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 The manager might be seeing something missing at the moment. Is he listening? Is he training hard? Is his mental state ready? It’s strange that he isn’t even making the squad at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 51 minutes ago, Shukes said: The manager might be seeing something missing at the moment. Is he listening? Is he training hard? Is his mental state ready? It’s strange that he isn’t even making the squad at times. I can't see it being either of the first two. The last one maybe, but even that would be a surprise going off what we know about him so far. Like Bailey said somewhere earlier in the thread; I haven't been entirely blown away by what he's shown on the pitch but there have been flashes and the other options that have been given chance after chance have been terrible for the most part. So it's all a bit odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 18 hours ago, Btay said: Exactly, i like Bernard but for one of his positives he has a negative. Iwobi is absolutely frustrating because the moment he shows a glimpse of what he could be he reverts back to his "usual" self. Gordon is just a direct winger, he might come in and not perform but his ceiling is not set yet and the more opportunity we give him now the higher that ceiling goes in my opinion. I completely agree with that second paragraph as well. Iwobi, Bernard, Gylfi etc all play in the space but link play more than get at teams. I think it was probably a shock to see Bernard score the way he did because normally he changes his mind about 5 times and then gives the ball away. When you think about Richarlison, the first thing that comes to mind is his aggression and directness. Gordon might not have the physical presence Richarlison has but he still wants to get at players and teams in the same way and therefore he would appear to be the most like for like replacement. Btay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWooney Posted November 13, 2020 Report Share Posted November 13, 2020 Obviously Carlo doesn't see him as quite ready yet despite giving him a fair bit of game time at the end of last season. This weekend I'd say he didn't make the squad because he'd rather see him get 90 minutes in an u23 game than sit on the bench for most of first team game. I think his time will come, as someone mentioned a loan might be a great move for him. Give him some regular first team experience in a championship side, against slightly easier opposition that just helps him develop a bit and be ready to step up and come back into the first team. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 26, 2020 Report Share Posted December 26, 2020 I was a little disappointed with him today. It is never going to be easy to come in and impress in a game like today's but he has to do more of the basics better. He played as though he needs games under his belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2020 25 minutes ago, Bailey said: I was a little disappointed with him today. It is never going to be easy to come in and impress in a game like today's but he has to do more of the basics better. He played as though he needs games under his belt. I don't really think we go him the ball enough to judge him too harshly. It's got to be hard coming in when the manager has barely given you a sniff and the games you're coming in for we're set up very negatively. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 26, 2020 Report Share Posted December 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: I don't really think we go him the ball enough to judge him too harshly. It's got to be hard coming in when the manager has barely given you a sniff and the games you're coming in for we're set up very negatively. I mostly agree but the issue I had was that he didn’t have the courage to try and make an impact. He had his 1 game (a rough one to be fair) to send a message by doing something special, but instead just filled some boots and made a couple of passes. He needs confidence based on what I saw this evening, I’m hoping he gets a loan in January. StevO and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Matt said: I mostly agree but the issue I had was that he didn’t have the courage to try and make an impact. He had his 1 game (a rough one to be fair) to send a message by doing something special, but instead just filled some boots and made a couple of passes. He needs confidence based on what I saw this evening, I’m hoping he gets a loan in January. I can understand but he's a baby and I think he's been treated a bit harshly by Carlo this season, and it looks like it may have hit him a bit. I agree about hoping he gets a loan move in January - a different environment and plenty of games should do him the world of good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 26, 2020 Report Share Posted December 26, 2020 Showed nothing to suggest he should be playing. Big chance for him tonight which he didn’t take. Bernard should be ahead of him. markjazzbassist and StevO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted December 27, 2020 Report Share Posted December 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said: I can understand but he's a baby and I think he's been treated a bit harshly by Carlo this season, and it looks like it may have hit him a bit. I agree about hoping he gets a loan move in January - a different environment and plenty of games should do him the world of good. My worry, if that is the case, is he tough enough to make it? He may feel he should have played more, but when he comes in I want him to try to show why that is. All he’s done tonight is probably put Bernard back in front of him In the pecking order. Hopefully he does get a loan. I’d like to see us buy a winger though. We need more options when Richarlison and James are out. As good as Iwobi has been lately I want to see it over a longer period before I think he’s the answer. markjazzbassist, Matt and Romey 1878 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 27, 2020 Report Share Posted December 27, 2020 Like I said before the match... I hope he does well but it isn't at the cost of people questioning why Carlo didn't put him in sooner. The reality is that he's a talented kid but the clamour for him to play and questioning Carlo like we had a young lionel Messi was a bit of a joke. If he was good enough Carlo would have played him... markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2020 56 minutes ago, StevO said: My worry, if that is the case, is he tough enough to make it? He may feel he should have played more, but when he comes in I want him to try to show why that is. All he’s done tonight is probably put Bernard back in front of him In the pecking order. Hopefully he does get a loan. I’d like to see us buy a winger though. We need more options when Richarlison and James are out. As good as Iwobi has been lately I want to see it over a longer period before I think he’s the answer. I think it would probably hit most young players to come in at the end of last season and do reasonably well and then come the next season he’s not even getting a look in. I want him to show why that is but I don’t feel like we really gave him the ball enough for him to do that. It would be a shame if this one performance sees him go back to not getting a look in. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted December 27, 2020 Report Share Posted December 27, 2020 Wouldn’t look into it too much. More experienced, older players have taken time to settle. He really needs a run of games before we can judge him too harshly. Hopefully he starts the cup game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 27, 2020 Report Share Posted December 27, 2020 1. He's nowhere near strong enough yet 2. Has great technical ability and control with some sharp pace about him but he needs to know when to attack and when to pass. Got caught a couple of times leading to counter attacks. 3. He's 19. Very young and not physically up to the levels required. Far too much expectations on him already. 4. Trust in Carlo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted December 27, 2020 Report Share Posted December 27, 2020 He needs a loan, needs game time to get used to the rigours of competitive football. But we need better competition for Richy its one area's we need to strengthen in. Bailey and StevO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 27, 2020 Report Share Posted December 27, 2020 He just needs the squad to be in a place whereby fans aren't treating him as some sort of undiscovered gem that Carlo needs to use in order for us to transform. Our fans aren't the most patient with young homegrown talent so he needs to be a support act who grows with the team rather than become a Tom Davies where he is used as a replacement for expensive misfiring players.... Then because of expected ups and downs he gets lumped with "not good enough" tags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted December 27, 2020 Report Share Posted December 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Hafnia said: He just needs the squad to be in a place whereby fans aren't treating him as some sort of undiscovered gem that Carlo needs to use in order for us to transform. Our fans aren't the most patient with young homegrown talent so he needs to be a support act who grows with the team rather than become a Tom Davies where he is used as a replacement for expensive misfiring players.... Then because of expected ups and downs he gets lumped with "not good enough" tags. I agree, we do put too much pressure on our young players. We believe the hype then get angry when they do not play like Messi from the get go. But I just think that players of his age need first team football, at a good level. If he were playing week in and out at a prem team like Brighton, Fulham, Palace or even Norwich, Swansea or Bournemouth in the Championship he would have a better chance to develop than if he were a rarely used squad player with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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