Path to Top 6

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

Who described us as a nothing team this year?

Pete.

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

Just looked at those stats on that link. Wow shows just how well we did doesn’t it.

A team with a higher expected goals get whalloped. 

Your not a half full kinda guy are you PeteO haha!

Just look at United. The signs were there but they had a good run and threw a contract at OGS too fast. 

Atm our results are papering over the cracks. The spine or the manager needs changing, preferably both. 

1 hour ago, StevO said:

Who described us as a nothing team this year?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/marco-silvas-everton-become-epitome-15773068.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/i-dont-know-what-everton-15773235.amp

[StevO]

Just Andy Hunter after a defeat against a very impressive Wolves side then? And Jermaine Jenas doesn’t know “what Everton are anymore”. Both in the first week of February? I just wanted to confirm who’s opinion we were discussing, and when. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/21/everton-manchester-united-premier-league-match-report

Andy Hunter, 11 weeks after calling us a nothing team called us “slick, expansive and clinical” and “one complete team performance”.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/07/everton-arsenal-premier-league-match-report

Andy Hunter, a couple of weeks before the quotes above, called Everton “dynamic, industrious and resilient in every department” and “work rate has improved immeasurably, along with their form, and their growing confidence”. 

Maybe Andy Hunter watched more of Everton and thought that we were a nothing team and went on to improve later in the season.

Couldnt care less what Jenas thinks, apart from Danny Murphy and Phil Thompson I don’t think there are many worse pundits out there. 

Im happy with the progress we’ve made in the second half of the season, I think most of us are. 

[Shukes]

52 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Just look at United. The signs were there but they had a good run and threw a contract at OGS too fast. 

Atm our results are papering over the cracks. The spine or the manager needs changing, preferably both. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/marco-silvas-everton-become-epitome-15773068.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/i-dont-know-what-everton-15773235.amp

That the same Utd that got relegated as they were so poor? Same as Arsenal and Chelsea! And spurs who just about failed everywhere this season!

[pete0]

19 minutes ago, StevO said:

Just Andy Hunter after a defeat against a very impressive Wolves side then? And Jermaine Jenas doesn’t know “what Everton are anymore”. Both in the first week of February? I just wanted to confirm who’s opinion we were discussing, and when. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/21/everton-manchester-united-premier-league-match-report

Andy Hunter, 11 weeks after calling us a nothing team called us “slick, expansive and clinical” and “one complete team performance”.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/07/everton-arsenal-premier-league-match-report

Andy Hunter, a couple of weeks before the quotes above, called Everton “dynamic, industrious and resilient in every department” and “work rate has improved immeasurably, along with their form, and their growing confidence”. 

Maybe Andy Hunter watched more of Everton and thought that we were a nothing team and went on to improve later in the season.

Couldnt care less what Jenas thinks, apart from Danny Murphy and Phil Thompson I don’t think there are many worse pundits out there. 

Im happy with the progress we’ve made in the second half of the season, I think most of us are. 

I don't understand why you're discounting Jenas' personal experience. He said, 

"I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore.

Goodison used to be a really tough place to go and play football, you knew you were going for a tough game.

I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore."

Think most would agree the team is too soft. 

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore."

I'd wager a significant wedge that his opinion would be very different if you asked him today.

[pete0]

12 minutes ago, Shukes said:

That the same Utd that got relegated as they were so poor? Same as Arsenal and Chelsea! And spurs who just about failed everywhere this season!

The same united that sacked their last manager for apparently not doing well enough. The manager everyone laughed at for saying second was a great achievement for that squad. 

New manager come in and they had a purple patch. But then reality set in and everyone now agrees Mourinho wasn't over exaggerating. 

Point is we've had a little purple patch, mostly thanks to the timing of the fixtures, but that doesn't mean the problems before the run of form aren't still there. We've done very little in the run to give confidence. We're not creating enough and there's no plan B. If the opposition dig in we have no answer. 

[Shukes]

30 minutes ago, pete0 said:

The same united that sacked their last manager for apparently not doing well enough. The manager everyone laughed at for saying second was a great achievement for that squad. 

New manager come in and they had a purple patch. But then reality set in and everyone now agrees Mourinho wasn't over exaggerating. 

Point is we've had a little purple patch, mostly thanks to the timing of the fixtures, but that doesn't mean the problems before the run of form aren't still there. We've done very little in the run to give confidence. We're not creating enough and there's no plan B. If the opposition dig in we have no answer. 

Yes that’s the one, the one that didn’t het relegated as they were crap, but got to Europe.

As did Arsenal... aren’t they still there?

As did Spurs... ahem... still there.

Chelsea... getting boring now isn’t it

[Cornish Steve]

On 16/05/2019 at 14:28, Matt said:

Honestly was sure you’d posted it somewhere maybe it was form from March / after the 17 day break? 

I seem to remember it was the final ten games as opposed to the final 18. 

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

The same united that sacked their last manager for apparently not doing well enough. The manager everyone laughed at for saying second was a great achievement for that squad. 

New manager come in and they had a purple patch. But then reality set in and everyone now agrees Mourinho wasn't over exaggerating. 

Point is we've had a little purple patch, mostly thanks to the timing of the fixtures, but that doesn't mean the problems before the run of form aren't still there. We've done very little in the run to give confidence. We're not creating enough and there's no plan B. If the opposition dig in we have no answer. 

I get what your saying PeteO, I just don’t agree. The football has looked much better to me. We are creating more chances, that’s proven in the stats. And these teams were not getting beat each week as you say.... other than Utd. 3 of them got to euro finals.

Not saying everything is fixed, just that it’s not as broken as you make out.

[Matt]

So much fail. So.  Much. 

[Matt]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

The same united that sacked their last manager for apparently not doing well enough. The manager everyone laughed at for saying second was a great achievement for that squad. 

New manager come in and they had a purple patch. But then reality set in and everyone now agrees Mourinho wasn't over exaggerating. 

Point is we've had a little purple patch, mostly thanks to the timing of the fixtures, but that doesn't mean the problems before the run of form aren't still there. We've done very little in the run to give confidence. We're not creating enough and there's no plan B. If the opposition dig in we have no answer. 

We had 2 “purple” patches amounting to 2 thirds of the season.

And you’re waiting for me to say what changed again?! I mean...  you explain relegation form to top 3 form without some kind of change and I’ll nominate you for a theoretical quantum physics professor-hood. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

I get what your saying PeteO, I just don’t agree. The football has looked much better to me. We are creating more chances, that’s proven in the stats. And these teams were not getting beat each week as you say.... other than Utd. 3 of them got to euro finals.

Not saying everything is fixed, just that it’s not as broken as you make out.

They all had problems going into the games with us. Arsenal had no midfield, united had just crashed out of the cup and Chelsea were/are disgruntled with the playing style/manager. West Ham had a defeat coming if you look at their forum they were getting the results not playing well, similar to what I'm saying about Everton. 

Look at the defeats, we set up the same as we did in the wins. Only difference I can see in those games is the effort from the opposition. It should take more than effort to beat us. We used to be a tough side but now we're pushovers. Why did we not beat Watford, Newcastle, Fulham, and Palace? 

[pete0]

50 minutes ago, Matt said:

We had 2 “purple” patches amounting to 2 thirds of the season.

And you’re waiting for me to say what changed again?! I mean...  you explain relegation form to top 3 form without some kind of change and I’ll nominate you for a theoretical quantum physics professor-hood. 

I wouldn't call the start a purple patch. We only beat teams you'd expect us to. Plus again fixtures are favourable in this period, if anything I'd argue we should we should be beating West Ham and Huddersfield at home. 

Wins: Soton, Fulham, Palace, Brighton, Cardiff, Leicester 

Draws: Wolves, Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Chelsea. 

Loses: West Ham, Arsenal, Man U

Already explained our turn of form to BBC mostly due to the opposition not turning up/it being a good time to play them. What was the difference in how we played in the games we never won? 

 

[StevO]

4 hours ago, pete0 said:

I don't understand why you're discounting Jenas' personal experience. He said, 

"I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore.

Goodison used to be a really tough place to go and play football, you knew you were going for a tough game.

I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore."

Think most would agree the team is too soft. 

I don’t think he’s a very good pundit, which is why I discount his opinion. If it came from Neville or Carragher, I’d probably take more notice. 

And as Mike said, he probably thinks different now. 

[Shukes]

9 hours ago, pete0 said:

They all had problems going into the games with us. Arsenal had no midfield, united had just crashed out of the cup and Chelsea were/are disgruntled with the playing style/manager. West Ham had a defeat coming if you look at their forum they were getting the results not playing well, similar to what I'm saying about Everton. 

Look at the defeats, we set up the same as we did in the wins. Only difference I can see in those games is the effort from the opposition. It should take more than effort to beat us. We used to be a tough side but now we're pushovers. Why did we not beat Watford, Newcastle, Fulham, and Palace? 

Yet even with these problems, 3 of them get to Euro finals. 

I get what your saying, we’re such a lucky team that teams only ever have problems on and off field when playing us. 

I mean it would be daft to say that our set up limits these teams and stops them playing. 

Yet when were beaten, it’s the opposite isn’t it PeteO, it’s because we were at full strength but the other team just tried harder. 

Lets be straight here. You see the team in a different way than the majority, and that’s fine. Your down on the team and club at the moment and look for negatives.

Im a pretty positive guy and will always look for the positives. You can see in my posts I’m a glass half full type. 

What we need to accept, mainly you is that yours, or mine, or any others opinions are just that PeteO, opinions. Your trying your best to prove them as facts, while ignoring actual facts.

The most glaring example is this not creating chances comment you keep going on about. Yet in one match we created more chances than Sam did in his whole tenure. That wasn’t something is fans made up, but a factual stat put out by the ssp team. And this is where I struggle to understand where your coming from sometimes.

[Wiggytop]

14 hours ago, pete0 said:

I don't understand why you're discounting Jenas' personal experience. He said, 

"I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore.

Goodison used to be a really tough place to go and play football, you knew you were going for a tough game.

I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore."

Think most would agree the team is too soft. 

Is this the team that play at Goodison Park and didn't concede a goal there after February?

[Palfy]

Been reading all these posts and in my opinion the hype that some are displaying over the last eleven games of the season, is let's say going to lead you massively disappointed next season, unless we can add two or three really good signings.

To think that we are going to carry on from there into next season and display the form of a team with the ability to finishing third or even top six is very fanciful, yes beating Chelsea Arsenal and Utd in that run was the highlights of our season for me, with the draws against the Shiite and Spurs, but for me that wasn't the reality of how far we have improved or come and we have improved from last season don't get me wrong, it was more to do with how poorly they were playing as well.

The performances against  the lesser teams in that eleven games run are still concerning enough for me to say that at this present time we are club with a lot to do, and I'm not going to let the end of last season cloud my judgment for next season, although if we don't finish in the top six I will be disappointed as I always am, but some of you are going to be devastated because your riding this wave of euphoria and you believe that we are going to carry on how we finished off last season third in the stats.

[Shukes]

12 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Been reading all these posts and in my opinion the hype that some are displaying over the last eleven games of the season, is let's say going to lead you massively disappointed next season, unless we can add two or three really good signings.

To think that we are going to carry on from there into next season and display the form of a team with the ability to finishing third or even top six is very fanciful, yes beating Chelsea Arsenal and Utd in that run was the highlights of our season for me, with the draws against the Shiite and Spurs, but for me that wasn't the reality of how far we have improved or come and we have improved from last season don't get me wrong, it was more to do with how poorly they were playing as well.

The performances against  the lesser teams in that eleven games run are still concerning enough for me to say that at this present time we are club with a lot to do, and I'm not going to let the end of last season cloud my judgment for next season, although if we don't finish in the top six I will be disappointed as I always am, but some of you are going to be devastated because your riding this wave of euphoria and you believe that we are going to carry on how we finished off last season third in the stats.

Of course it may be a false dawn, but it could also be the next step.

If you choose to live your life never stepping of a kerb just in case you twist an ankle, you will never see what’s out in the world. 

I just choose to jump of that kerb and see what happens.

I’m a believer in the laws of attraction friend.

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

Been reading all these posts and in my opinion the hype that some are displaying over the last eleven games of the season, is let's say going to lead you massively disappointed next season, unless we can add two or three really good signings.

To think that we are going to carry on from there into next season and display the form of a team with the ability to finishing third or even top six is very fanciful, yes beating Chelsea Arsenal and Utd in that run was the highlights of our season for me, with the draws against the Shiite and Spurs, but for me that wasn't the reality of how far we have improved or come and we have improved from last season don't get me wrong, it was more to do with how poorly they were playing as well.

The performances against  the lesser teams in that eleven games run are still concerning enough for me to say that at this present time we are club with a lot to do, and I'm not going to let the end of last season cloud my judgment for next season, although if we don't finish in the top six I will be disappointed as I always am, but some of you are going to be devastated because your riding this wave of euphoria and you believe that we are going to carry on how we finished off last season third in the stats.

I dont think anyone on here believes we’ll be pushing third place or even expecting us to break into the top six Palfy. 

I think a lot of us have seen a team start to show signs of identity, of a higher work rate, of creating chances, flashes of flair and imagination and its left us feeling positive. 

We’ve all seen so many years of negativity at this club. Relegation battles, selling players to keep the banks happy, Mike Walker , that now the club are aiming high. 

I though after January I’d probably not see a home win again this season. Then we beat these teams, didn’t concede a goal, attacked them. Really attacked them. Not the old 1-0 wins Moyes used to get, a lot of us moaned that we didn’t put four past Arsenal. I’ve seen them put six on us. It was a nice complaint to have. 

We’ve got stadium plans around the corner, we have money to spend, we’ve got some good players and a manager who is starting to look like he knows what he’s doing, Brands who looks very good, Suntan Bob has gone, the kids have retained the u23 league.

There are a lot of things to be positive about Everton. We aren’t going to win the league, we more than likely aren’t going to get in the top four yet. But there aren’t too many negatives are there? 

I can’t wait for next season. 

[pete0]

4 hours ago, Shukes said:

Yet even with these problems, 3 of them get to Euro finals. 

I get what your saying, we’re such a lucky team that teams only ever have problems on and off field when playing us. 

I mean it would be daft to say that our set up limits these teams and stops them playing. 

Yet when were beaten, it’s the opposite isn’t it PeteO, it’s because we were at full strength but the other team just tried harder. 

Lets be straight here. You see the team in a different way than the majority, and that’s fine. Your down on the team and club at the moment and look for negatives.

Im a pretty positive guy and will always look for the positives. You can see in my posts I’m a glass half full type. 

What we need to accept, mainly you is that yours, or mine, or any others opinions are just that PeteO, opinions. Your trying your best to prove them as facts, while ignoring actual facts.

The most glaring example is this not creating chances comment you keep going on about. Yet in one match we created more chances than Sam did in his whole tenure. That wasn’t something is fans made up, but a factual stat put out by the ssp team. And this is where I struggle to understand where your coming from sometimes.

They got there on prior form. Man u had new manager syndrome for a purple patch. Chelsea and Arsenal both had new managers too that are now struggling as the league has more knowledge of what they are going to do, and in Chelsea's case the squad aren't happy either. 

The wheels have fell off all them come the end of the season looking at the form table between the three of them they only got 5 wins. There's little reason to be hyped. 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB1

Man U were plop they'd just crashed out of both cups and the honeymoon period with the new manager was over. They never closed down in the game to the point Matic come out and apologised. Arsenal were missing their main midfield in Teirerra and Xhaka as well as a few other players. West Ham had no goal threat in the players they fielded they were all off form or hardly used, they even had Lucas in midfield. Cardiff were missing three of their key men too, Arter who has a bit of quality and Camarasa and Paterson (come on as a sub). Chelsea much like ourselves at Newcastle imploded, don't remember anyone giving credit to Newcastle for that one so why should we take it when it happens in our favour. 

Burnley we beat because we were the better side, they turned up and gave it a go and we were terrific for the first 30 but then the last hour was nervy. 

As much as Palace made it hard for us, we made it easy for them. They knew exactly what we were gonna do and stopped us. Fulham beat us on desire alone. Bar Burnley none of the teams we beat in the run at the end were giving it a proper go. I don't see how you can use those games to be optimistic. 

We played exactly the same way against Fulham as we did United. What would you say the difference was if it's not man u having a bad day? 

Don't see how comparing the unbalanced mess Alladyce had to this team is fair. We had DCL on the wing compared to a Brazilian international, we had a leggy Baines and misfit RB Martina playing left back, now we Digne who's like a young Baines. The only fair comparison is that given this squad a manager should do much much better than last year's. Yet Silva has only closed the gap to 6th by 2 points and finished in the same place in the league. Regardless the point still stands we're not creating enough this season and it needs addressing. 

[markjazzbassist]

Palfy seems like the kinda guy who orders filet mignon and it’s perfect and then bitches the green beans he got with them were under seasoned.  FFS just enjoy the game and wins for now.  Some seriously fickle people on here that just can’t enjoy a win and good run.

[StevO]

18 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Palfy seems like the kinda guy who orders filet mignon and it’s perfect and then bitches the green beans he got with them were under seasoned.  FFS just enjoy the game and wins for now.  Some seriously fickle people on here that just can’t enjoy a win and good run.

You’re making me hungry Mark

[Gwlad]

A cup will do it for me. I really believe it could have been us today at Wembley but we couldn't dispatch Millwall.

[pete0]

54 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Palfy seems like the kinda guy who orders filet mignon and it’s perfect and then bitches the green beans he got with them were under seasoned.  FFS just enjoy the game and wins for now.  Some seriously fickle people on here that just can’t enjoy a win and good run.

Fickle is getting carried away with the wins against teams that weren't up to scratch on the day. 

[Shukes]

Well the difference was that we turned up against these teams. It’s as simple as that PeteO. Against Fulham ( you should have watched the highlights, you would t be asking the. ), we just didn’t turn up. We were flat and created nothing. Against Utd, we created over 20 (twenty) chances. 

Again, how can’t you see the difference? 

Arsenal are in a Euro final. They weren’t in it mid season.... they got there at the end of the season, along with Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea. They weren’t given these finals due to how they did earlier in the season.... like it or not, they earnt their right to be there.

We won these games by playing positive football. We lost against Newcastle in the last third of the game. We lost against Fulham because we weren't positive. 

You seem to hate to admit to us doing anything good, not sure why, but I see it. 

Im not going to reply to anything more unless it’s something new and to be frank, real. This is not going to go anywhere as we both see it differently. 

Mid we get relegated with the same team we have now, next season, I will be the first to admit you told us so. If we end up anywhere above 8th, then I expect you to do the same. 

Sorry wrong wording. I don’t expect you to, but I think you should

[Shukes]

1 minute ago, pete0 said:

Fickle is getting carried away with the wins against teams that weren't up to scratch on the day. 

That’s not fickle in any way whatsoever. It’s called being a fan of Everton who enjoy to see their team win. It’s what the sport is all about. 

Its what happens on the pitch that counts, duck all to do with this expected goals shit. Grab a shirt, kiss the badge and get back to being a football fan again.

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

Well the difference was that we turned up against these teams. It’s as simple as that PeteO. Against Fulham ( you should have watched the highlights, you would t be asking the. ), we just didn’t turn up. We were flat and created nothing. Against Utd, we created over 20 (twenty) chances. 

Again, how can’t you see the difference? 

Arsenal are in a Euro final. They weren’t in it mid season.... they got there at the end of the season, along with Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea. They weren’t given these finals due to how they did earlier in the season.... like it or not, they earnt their right to be there.

We won these games by playing positive football. We lost against Newcastle in the last third of the game. We lost against Fulham because we weren't positive. 

You seem to hate to admit to us doing anything good, not sure why, but I see it. 

Im not going to reply to anything more unless it’s something new and to be frank, real. This is not going to go anywhere as we both see it differently. 

Mid we get relegated with the same team we have now, next season, I will be the first to admit you told us so. If we end up anywhere above 8th, then I expect you to do the same. 

Sorry wrong wording. I don’t expect you to, but I think you should

We turned up to Fulham just as we did the other games. Just they fought back. United were awful, they didn't close down and were all over the shop with a centre half at the back and players who just don't want to be there any more and won't dig deep. Even Cardiff beat them ffs. 

If the expectation is 8th there's the difference. I'm not happy with 8th, and unless it comes down to the wire 7th isn'tt good enough either. Martinez got us 5th, Koeman got us 7th, and last season Alladyce got the worst Everton side since Walter Smith to 8th. Silva hasn't done his job, the gap is massive from us to 6th. He's had Digne, Zouma, Gomes, Richarlison, Bernard and only closed the gap by two points. Compare them to the players they come in for Williams/Jags both legs gone and were playing next to an injured Keane making him even more cumbersome, add Baines and Coleman both coming back from injuries and we must have had the most immobile back four in the league, and then it wasn't much better in midfield with a leggy Rooney. We lacked pace that much DCL an inexperienced striker was playing on the wing. The team was completely unbalanced and slow yet we've only managed to close the gap by two points. The manager has a lot to answer for. 

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

That’s not fickle in any way whatsoever. It’s called being a fan of Everton who enjoy to see their team win. It’s what the sport is all about. 

Its what happens on the pitch that counts, duck all to do with this expected goals shit. Grab a shirt, kiss the badge and get back to being a football fan again.

I'm no happy clapper. If we perform well and get beat or draw I'll say so just as much as I'll say we weren't great or the opposition handed it to us on a plate. One of the best matches I went was a nil nil draw against Leeds in 2002, had everything but goals. Even though we never scored I was happy with the performance and that game sticks in memory. I can't say as much for any game this season, or last for that matter. I'm happy with the three points but other than the Man United score the matches are pretty forgettable. 

[StevO]

https://www.transfermarkt.com/everton-fc_leeds-united/index/spielbericht/1021714

That one?

That starting line up, what a nightmare. Was there a single footballer in there?

Simonsen

Weir Stubbs Unsworth Pistone

Linderoth Gemmill Carsley Blomqvist

Campbell Radzinski 

Gravesen and Ginola came off the bench.

Not a bad result against a side with Alan Smith, Harry Kewell, Mark Viduka and Robbie Fowler. They had ten men from 39 minutes onwards after Matteo got sent off.

Leeds had one hell of a team back then, before they fucked it all up. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/1847993.stm

[Finn balor]

At the end of the day we had a bad patch after the analfield game. We were awful for a dozen games or so but Marco has turned it around. You can point to the Fulham and palace games all you want but we are not city or the shite that can just turn up and smash teams. We are not the finished article. This will happen. Look at the way arsenal and spurs have fallen away at the end of the season. Consistency is key but if you look at how these teams do it it’s because they have the best players. End of. Marco can’t influence Pickford having a mare against Newcastle and five people being offside for the winner. If we are fans we have to see the bigger picture, granted we all see the game in different ways but the recruitment has been spot on last season. If it’s as good again and we get off to a good start I really think we will be challenging for top five