Ghoat Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 Maybe it's the combo of he and Iwobi (and yes I know Lincoln is EPL quality) but I think we had more shots in each of the last two games then we did in the first three combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/sep/03/graeme-souness-reminds-media-think-before-speaking-race-moise-kean-sky-sports-everton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbanyNYToffee Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 On 02/09/2019 at 05:28, Shukes said: They look pretty much dead even. Though I think Kean looks more likely to create a chance for himself, whereas DCL is part of a build up. Two different options. Nail on head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyBlue Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 On 02/09/2019 at 05:28, Shukes said: They look pretty much dead even. Though I think Kean looks more likely to create a chance for himself, whereas DCL is part of a build up. Two different options. I think it's way too premature to say this. Kean is adjusting to a new country, new teammates, new manager and hasn't had a run of games. While DCL is still young and can develop we have a much better idea of what we are getting with him. Let's give Kean some time before we start making determinations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 I’ve already seen enough in Kean that at 19 he is an improvement on DCL. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 5 hours ago, SpartyBlue said: I think it's way too premature to say this. Kean is adjusting to a new country, new teammates, new manager and hasn't had a run of games. While DCL is still young and can develop we have a much better idea of what we are getting with him. Let's give Kean some time before we start making determinations. Not rating them the same, just pointing out that stat wise, they pretty much even. I have no doubt that Kean will surpass DCL goals and ability wise. But the discussion and the question asked was about comparing their stats.... and they are virtually dead set even. Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 16 minutes ago, Shukes said: Not rating them the same, just pointing out that stat wise, they pretty much even. I have no doubt that Kean will surpass DCL goals and ability wise. But the discussion and the question asked was about comparing their stats.... and they are virtually dead set even. I asked that question out of curiosity because I felt Kean had done more in his short time here than DCL this season who had more minutes, I was quite surprised that they were even although DCL has had twice as much game time as Kean, so on minutes played Kean has had more of an impact on stats and I feel has played and looked better on the eye. Yet I feel there is a lot more to come from Kean but I don’t get that feeling with DCL who for is run in the team hasn’t shown the improvement I would expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 11 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/sep/03/graeme-souness-reminds-media-think-before-speaking-race-moise-kean-sky-sports-everton Think the guardian are stretching with the unconscious racism shout. Black or white, Souness is just a cunt. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 I think it has showed how both can be utilised recently. Kean has started, DCL coming on. DCL has been much more effective when coming off the bench. On Sunday his flick one set Bernard one on one with a defender twice in five minutes. This is where he is best. Kean has been used as the main man up top, yet not really had much help up there. This is why he hasn’t had much to go off, but he has managed to create a couple of chances of his own. I think it’s about time we stopped trying to work them off against each other, and celebrate that we have two different options. I’m happy to be wrong if it’s to the benefit of Everton. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 41 minutes ago, pete0 said: Think the guardian are stretching with the unconscious racism shout. Black or white, Souness is just a cunt. I posted this on the match day forum before the game. I was fuming, mostly because it was just a lazy inept thing to say. What made it worse was that the lead broadcaster didn’t correct him and say well he wouldn’t sign a contract because he wanted to play football. To us in the know at Everton we know different but to anyone else watching they have him down as a trouble maker etc. That’s totally unfair. If these presenters want to sit there with there thousand pound suits and sparkling white teeth then do the research before you spout shit. Souness could have brought up a comparison with a hundred footballers that were sold. But he brought up a player from a decade ago that has no relevance to kean only that he was black and had dreadlocks. nutmegwolf203, Matt and Sibdane 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 44 minutes ago, Shukes said: I think it has showed how both can be utilised recently. Kean has started, DCL coming on. DCL has been much more effective when coming off the bench. On Sunday his flick one set Bernard one on one with a defender twice in five minutes. This is where he is best. Kean has been used as the main man up top, yet not really had much help up there. This is why he hasn’t had much to go off, but he has managed to create a couple of chances of his own. I think it’s about time we stopped trying to work them off against each other, and celebrate that we have two different options. I’m happy to be wrong if it’s to the benefit of Everton. DCl will be massive for us this season in one way or another. I’m like you shukes I think he is best off the bench when the back four are tiring because he can do a bit of everything nutmegwolf203 and Shukes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutmegwolf203 Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 58 minutes ago, pete0 said: Think the guardian are stretching with the unconscious racism shout. Black or white, Souness is just a cunt. He’s both! Let’s not excuse his behavior and the apathy of his two colleagues during the whole thing; he had no business speaking about a player’s character, especially without any research. That’s how cycles continue. Souness always has a specific tone and use of language when he speaks about black players. I can see it from a mile away because it’s familiar. Not listening or being dismissive is unhelpful and allows people to fall back on the claim that “I didn’t realize” or say things like “sorry to those that were offended by my comments”. It’s all cyclical bullshit. StevO and MikeO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, nutmegwolf203 said: He’s both! Let’s not excuse his behavior and the apathy of his two colleagues during the whole thing; he had no business speaking about a player’s character, especially without any research. That’s how cycles continue. Souness always has a specific tone and use of language when he speaks about black players. I can see it from a mile away because it’s familiar. Not listening or being dismissive is unhelpful and allows people to fall back on the claim that “I didn’t realize” or say things like “sorry to those that were offended by my comments”. It’s all cyclical bullshit. He's not said it because Kean is black. He's said it because the lad has left juve for Everton. Any pundit worth his salt would know it's for playing time, given Ronaldo being there, but Souness is just a utter twat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 People will defend him saying he bought mark Walters as the first black player at rangers etc but his performance reeked of ignorance and I blame sky just as much. They had ample time to offer a retraction by the lead to say kean had a year left and had no bargaining power and put it to bed. I’m glad this is getting press Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutmegwolf203 Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, pete0 said: He's not said it because Kean is black. He's said it because the lad has left juve for Everton. Any pundit worth his salt would know it's for playing time, given Ronaldo being there, but Souness is just a utter twat. I’m sure his biases against Everton were also a factor but I still think you’re giving him a pass and no one learns when that happens. We’ll just agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 minute ago, pete0 said: He's not said it because Kean is black. He's said it because the lad has left juve for Everton. Any pundit worth his salt would know it's for playing time, given Ronaldo being there, but Souness is just a utter twat. Why bring Adebayor up? What has his transfer got to do with kean? The fact is the lead presenter and the producers behind the scene never corrected it. As soon as I watched it I was fuming. Talksport did an hour on racism and a journalist brought it up and said it was a disgrace. nutmegwolf203 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, nutmegwolf203 said: I’m sure his biases against Everton were also a factor but I still think you’re giving him a pass and no one learns when that happens. We’ll just agree to disagree. Maybe because we are just little Everton? I’m sure if it was joe royle making similar comments then the media darlings over the park would be in outrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutmegwolf203 Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, Finn balor said: Maybe because we are just little Everton? I’m sure if it was joe royle making similar comments then the media darlings over the park would be in outrage ? I was agreeing with that point. I just think Souness is a bigot as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 Sorry pal, I agree with you totally in everything you have said. Sorry for the confusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutmegwolf203 Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 50 minutes ago, Finn balor said: Sorry pal, I agree with you totally in everything you have said. Sorry for the confusion No worries! Likewise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Finn balor said: Why bring Adebayor up? What has his transfer got to do with kean? The fact is the lead presenter and the producers behind the scene never corrected it. As soon as I watched it I was fuming. Talksport did an hour on racism and a journalist brought it up and said it was a disgrace. I honestly don't think it's because Adebayor is black. He's saying because he's a good player and going to a relatively smaller club. If he was racist would he acknowledge their ability at all? 1 hour ago, nutmegwolf203 said: He’s both! Let’s not excuse his behavior and the apathy of his two colleagues during the whole thing; he had no business speaking about a player’s character, especially without any research. That’s how cycles continue. Souness always has a specific tone and use of language when he speaks about black players. I can see it from a mile away because it’s familiar. Not listening or being dismissive is unhelpful and allows people to fall back on the claim that “I didn’t realize” or say things like “sorry to those that were offended by my comments”. It’s all cyclical bullshit. That same time he has about anything Everton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 Oh, racism... Here go again. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyBlue Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 6 hours ago, Shukes said: Not rating them the same, just pointing out that stat wise, they pretty much even. I have no doubt that Kean will surpass DCL goals and ability wise. But the discussion and the question asked was about comparing their stats.... and they are virtually dead set even. I hear ya I just don't think it's fair because neither sample size (particualrly Kean's) is meaningful yet. I don't know if you follow baseball but it would be like commenting on a players average after his first 50 at bats. Shukes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutmegwolf203 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 hours ago, pete0 said: I honestly don't think it's because Adebayor is black. He's saying because he's a good player and going to a relatively smaller club. If he was racist would he acknowledge their ability at all? That same time he has about anything Everton. Yes, actually, it’s a pretty common racist trope to applaud or comment on the physical abilities of athletes of color by praising their tenacity, athleticism, or power then proceed to question their attitudes or mental capacity. White commentators/journalists do that to Black athletes all the time. It’s not exclusive to sports either. Have you ever heard of misogynoir? You can tolerate one aspect of someone’s being, especially if it’s a trait you benefit from, but discredit their actual humanity altogether. It happens constantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 4 hours ago, SpartyBlue said: I hear ya I just don't think it's fair because neither sample size (particualrly Kean's) is meaningful yet. I don't know if you follow baseball but it would be like commenting on a players average after his first 50 at bats. Not judging them mate. Others were, I was just making the comment. I agree with you fully. I don’t think stats in football prove anything other than points on the board. DCL created two good chances when he came on Sunday, he also made a massive difference against Lincoln, but he won’t get any stats for it. Kean quietly did his part on Sunday by keeping the defenders busy all game and wearing them down. Ultimately both these players played a part in getting us three points. Let’s see how they do through this whole season and see where we, and them are at the end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 6 hours ago, nutmegwolf203 said: Yes, actually, it’s a pretty common racist trope to applaud or comment on the physical abilities of athletes of color by praising their tenacity, athleticism, or power then proceed to question their attitudes or mental capacity. White commentators/journalists do that to Black athletes all the time. It’s not exclusive to sports either. Have you ever heard of misogynoir? You can tolerate one aspect of someone’s being, especially if it’s a trait you benefit from, but discredit their actual humanity altogether. It happens constantly. I've not seen the whole thing just the stuff in here and I don't see anything like that. He's said he's a good footballer and then drawn his own misguided conclusions. Don't see how race comes in to it. “Right away you were thinking that he’s not selling him because he’s not a good footballer, it’s because something is not quite right.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 He’s not going to hit double figures this season- the lads going to need time and patience to grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, Paddock said: He’s not going to hit double figures this season- the lads going to need time and patience to grow. You’ve always been a miserable bastard Pad he’s going to score loads!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 On 05/09/2019 at 14:15, StevO said: You’ve always been a miserable bastard Pad he’s going to score loads!! He wont hit double figures this season mate. He’s going to need a season to find his feet. He’s very young and the Italian league is a lot different to ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 Bet! Bet! Bet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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