Carlo Ancelotti

[Newty82]

2 hours ago, barryj said:

I don’t think we can afford another gamble. I’m so nervous over who we next appoint. 

It's football. Nothing is guaranteed. Everything is a gamble.

[pete0]

8 hours ago, nogs said:

Moyes was the one who sent Ossie out on loan, then integrated him into the first XI. And I don't get your point about 'adult workloads' at all. Are young players meant to put in less of a shift even if they're picked for the first team? I don't remember the likes of Vaughan and Anichebe playing many games from the start anyway. 

Integrated? How old was he when he starting playing through choice rather than forced by injury? What age when he was finally played in his position centrally? 

What's there not to get about teenagers and adults being different? 

[StevO]

Loving the Nuno suggestions, he would be a great shout. But realistically we don’t have a chance of getting him out of Wolves. 

[nogs]

41 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Integrated? How old was he when he starting playing through choice rather than forced by injury? What age when he was finally played in his position centrally? 

What's there not to get about teenagers and adults being different? 

I dunno, why don't you ask Lampard? Or Southgate?

[MikeO]

3 hours ago, barryj said:

I don’t think we can afford another gamble.

Amazed you got five (and counting) "greens" for that; who exactly are you thinking we can get who isn't a gamble? For me there's exactly nobody who fits that brief.

[StevO]

10 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Amazed you got five (and counting) "greens" for that; who exactly are you thinking we can get who isn't a gamble? For me there's exactly nobody who fits that brief.

Guardiola, if he fancies it. 

[pete0]

12 minutes ago, nogs said:

I dunno, why don't you ask Lampard? Or Southgate?

Both significantly older than the players I named. 

The sport now is for elite athletes. So you think a growing boy can handle as much as a grown man? 

Still waiting for the answers in Osman? 

And a list a players Moyes brought through... 

[MikeO]

5 minutes ago, StevO said:

Guardiola, if he fancies it. 

I'll rephrase, there's exactly nobody who fits that brief who would take it on.

[MikeO]

3 hours ago, barryj said:

I don’t think we can afford another gamble. I’m so nervous over who we next appoint. 

 

19 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Amazed you got five (and counting) "greens" for that; who exactly are you thinking we can get who isn't a gamble? For me there's exactly nobody who fits that brief.

Actually on reflection you probably got the greens for the second sentence so I'll get back into my bunker. 

[barryj]

21 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Amazed you got five (and counting) "greens" for that; who exactly are you thinking we can get who isn't a gamble? For me there's exactly nobody who fits that brief.

I totally agree with you that nobody is a certainty to be a real success. I meant in my post that I don’t think we should go for someone with an unproven track record that we hope will be the next best thing which is clearly a larger gamble than others. I’m just worried as we need to break this cycle and I don’t for once have my idea of an answer. 

[Newty82]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

Guardiola, if he fancies it. 

He wouldn't last here. His first season at City was below expectation which means he'd be sacked here

[StevO]

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

I'll rephrase, there's exactly nobody who fits that brief who would take it on.

Damn, was worth a try. 

[Trigger]

I'd love Arteta, he must have learned so much under Guardiola. However, the coaching team that a manager brings with them, becomes just as important as the manager these days. I'd expect Arteta to work with some of what we have like, Big Dunc, but who else would he bring in? It's not like he will be able to bring half the Man City coaching staff with him is it? So who else would be in his coaching team that he knows as has a good relationship with? I don't like the idea of a brand new set-up of people that haven't really worked together before!

It would be Poch for me as no.1 choice if he was interested and didn't have a Real Madrid knocking at his door already.

If not then either Chris Wilder or Eddie Howe work for me. Eddie has the longevity of having proven he can do it consistently in the Premiership. Chris Wilder could be awesome, but is a risk as he wouldn't be the first 1 season premiership wonder as a manager.

I don't like the idea of Moyes, purely because it never works out 2nd time round for the long term as a manager returning.

[Gwlad]

Still comes down to Rafa for me, he knows what it's like to be in charge at the top

[nogs]

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

Both significantly older than the players I named. 

The sport now is for elite athletes. So you think a growing boy can handle as much as a grown man? 

Still waiting for the answers in Osman? 

And a list a players Moyes brought through... 

I meant Lampard use of kids for Chelsea this season, and Southgate for England. Both are happy to play teenagers. Is Lampard endangering Mount's career by playing him so much, not just this season but last year at Derby when he was still a teenager? 

Osman was 20 when Moyes took over, 23 when he broke through into the first team after a couple of loan spells. That's good managed progression of a young player. And so what that he got played right mid - he had a great season, was an integral part of our most successful league campaign since the 80s and wouldn't have got in ahead of Carsley, Gravesen/Arteta or Cahill in the middle anyway. Managers are entitled to play players 'out of position' when it works. 

[pete0]

50 minutes ago, nogs said:

I meant Lampard use of kids for Chelsea this season, and Southgate for England. Both are happy to play teenagers. Is Lampard endangering Mount's career by playing him so much, not just this season but last year at Derby when he was still a teenager? 

Osman was 20 when Moyes took over, 23 when he broke through into the first team after a couple of loan spells. That's good managed progression of a young player. And so what that he got played right mid - he had a great season, was an integral part of our most successful league campaign since the 80s and wouldn't have got in ahead of Carsley, Gravesen/Arteta or Cahill in the middle anyway. Managers are entitled to play players 'out of position' when it works. 

Your go to player is one for the team with a transfer ban forced to play kids. Fuck me. Any how, I'd expect Lampard's fitness regime to be a lot less intensive than Moyes. You really think Moyes didn't ruin any of their careers? Rodwell wasn't ready and got put in the wing only for him to disturb his injury and Moyes was screaming at Gosling to stay in the pitch with his injury. 

Completely ignoring the point Moyes was happy to sell him, only played him when others were injured and even then it was mostly out of position. Yea, he was really masterminding Osman's career... 

[Cornish Steve]

14 hours ago, Sibdane said:

What about an Arteta/Cahill tandem? My heart says yes, but my mind says no. 

This is by far the best suggestion I've read anywhere. I'm now rooting for this.

[nogs]

7 hours ago, pete0 said:

Your go to player is one for the team with a transfer ban forced to play kids. Fuck me. Any how, I'd expect Lampard's fitness regime to be a lot less intensive than Moyes. You really think Moyes didn't ruin any of their careers? Rodwell wasn't ready and got put in the wing only for him to disturb his injury and Moyes was screaming at Gosling to stay in the pitch with his injury. 

Completely ignoring the point Moyes was happy to sell him, only played him when others were injured and even then it was mostly out of position. Yea, he was really masterminding Osman's career... 

How many league games did Ossie play under Moyes? More than 300?? Yeah, clearly never rated him. And yeah Chelsea are my go to team for how kids can be used effectively - look at the table!! 

I thought you were all for bringing more kids through anyway? 

[pete0]

11 minutes ago, nogs said:

How many league games did Ossie play under Moyes? More than 300?? Yeah, clearly never rated him. And yeah Chelsea are my go to team for how kids can be used effectively - look at the table!! 

I thought you were all for bringing more kids through anyway? 

Again completely avoiding that he played when others were injured and out mostly then used out of position. If Moyes rated him why was he willing to let him go to Portsmouth? 

Still waiting on that list of players Moyes brought through... 

[Blueherts]

Kovac or Gallardo would be the dream appointments for me, but our board are incapable of thinking big, so may as well just open the door for old bisto tits and be done with it.

[nogs]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Again completely avoiding that he played when others were injured and out mostly then used out of position. If Moyes rated him why was he willing to let him go to Portsmouth? 

Still waiting on that list of players Moyes brought through... 

You are one stubborn bastard. 300 games Pete, 300 games!! A pretty decent career for a manager that didn't rate him and played him out of position. 

And when did I say I'd produce another list aside from those already mentioned - Rooney, Vaughan, Anichebe, Rodwell, Osman, Hibbert (kind of), Coleman, Barkley? 

Oh and for the record, and to hopefully close down yet another painfully repetitive debate, I do agree Moyes could have done more with young players, Duffy and Mustafi were a waste, he also had issues with discipline around talented kids like Baxter and Green. But still, I stand by my original point that his record of bringing through academy graduates was better than we've seen since he left. One playing regular first team football for us in 5 years isn't great imo. 

[pete0]

7 hours ago, nogs said:

You are one stubborn bastard. 300 games Pete, 300 games!! A pretty decent career for a manager that didn't rate him and played him out of position. 

And when did I say I'd produce another list aside from those already mentioned - Rooney, Vaughan, Anichebe, Rodwell, Osman, Hibbert (kind of), Coleman, Barkley? 

Oh and for the record, and to hopefully close down yet another painfully repetitive debate, I do agree Moyes could have done more with young players, Duffy and Mustafi were a waste, he also had issues with discipline around talented kids like Baxter and Green. But still, I stand by my original point that his record of bringing through academy graduates was better than we've seen since he left. One playing regular first team football for us in 5 years isn't great imo. 

We had a small squad so when injuries come he got a game. Yet he was the best player in his age group so Joe Cole claims. But Cole was in the England team before him, with Osman only getting his debut in his 30s after a decade of playing under Moyes, doesn't exactly scream to me Moyes done a good job nurturing him. Had he played in the middle sooner I'd imagine he'd have a lot more caps to his name. 

You said you can't even remember Vaughan playing yet include him? Vaughan, Rodwell and Anichebe (although Kevin Nolan largely responsible too) all had their careers ruined by him. 

Rooney is a natural phenomenon, neverheard any of Maradona's managers get credit. Laughable you're giving it to Moyes for Rooney. 

Hibbert had already broke into the team plus the only other right back was busy playing every other position for us. 

How did he help Barkley's career by not playing him and giving him silly loans? 

[Bailey]

On 24/11/2019 at 16:42, Finn balor said:

Look at the job wilder has done everywhere he has gone. He has the best win ratio for his teams that most other managers. That’s not coincidence. He has gone through the leagues and is making a mockery of the premier league. It annoys me that people dismiss someone like him just because he has gone through the leagues and isn’t foreign. How dare him. He has absolute belief in his formation and gets the best out of his players. 

Didnt seem to get very far with Halifax, got Oxford promoted into the league but couldn't get them any further and then he has been brilliant at Northampton and Sheffield. The premier league is a very different place. Yes he is doing well, but how will he be doing in 12 months time and as history has shown that these type of things don't last. It has nothing to do with coming through the leagues of being English its about how sustainable it is at the highest level. He is doing very well, but the best managers in the country will work out how to exploit him and then Sheffield will go on a bad run and then it will be a case of seeing how he responds. He might be able to cope brilliantly and go on to be one of the best English mangers out there, but I don't think it is in anyway unreasonable to say that he still needs to prove himself at this level.

On 24/11/2019 at 17:00, nogs said:

Bailey I found your last post really bizarre. You really think Silva came to us a 'proven manager'? And yeah, I mentioned Wilder coz he has been a manager nearly 20 years, he's been round the block, learned his trade and now we're seeing the results of that at the highest level. Yet you list Bilic and Villas Boas as 'solid' - they did NOTHING in the PL. And do you really think Southgate would leave the England job for us right now?? 

And I dunno what you're on about half the players not caring. I'd say there are a handful of teams where that is a serious problem, and you seem to be suggesting that lack of effort isn't our problem, it's just our players are shite! 

I think you have missed the point with half of the post, I will address yours anyway.

Silva did very well in Portugal, winning promotion and silverware. He went to Olympiacos and did the same taking them onto their longest unbeaten run and played Champions League football.

He then had two stints at Premiership clubs who were in bad situations, working wonders at Hull who were more or less already relegated and then getting off to a flying start with Watford. He certainly didn't prove his longevity but he did prove that he is a capable manager who knows how to win games in this league and who can win titles abroad.

Wilder is less proven in this league than Silva. That is a fact.

The managers I listed are not managers I want but they are managers who have spent time in the Premier League and showed that they arent complete mugs. AVB was doing well at Spurs for a while, Southgate is shite but proven himself a somewhat capable international manager and Bilic was the man everyone wanted a few seasons ago, just like people were with Silva last season and Wilder now. Last time I saw, he was doing OK at West Brom too.

I don't want any of those managers but I am trying to show is that its slim pickings out there and you cant even get someone who will guarantee you a minimum level of performance, bar maybe, the first 3 I think it was on the list.

On 25/11/2019 at 16:52, Palfy said:

I’m more and more thinking Howe, he’s worked wonders with Bournemouth just to keep them in the league for as long as he has, but better than that they have never seemed to be relegation candidates, and that’s a testament to his managerial and tactical skills, when you look at the budget he has to work with it makes you wonder what he could achieve with a bit of money at a bigger club. 
We could do a lot worse, how could I forget we have and currently are

Im half and half with Howe. I just don't see what he is trying to achieve. They can play some decent football but they are open. They have spent a lot of money and they have got better, but when they go on a bad run he goes back to the guys he brought up the league with him. He has spent a lot of money and I actually think he should be doing a bit better than he is, IF, he was that good. I would just fear that we would see more of the same with him.

[Palfy]

16 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Didnt seem to get very far with Halifax, got Oxford promoted into the league but couldn't get them any further and then he has been brilliant at Northampton and Sheffield. The premier league is a very different place. Yes he is doing well, but how will he be doing in 12 months time and as history has shown that these type of things don't last. It has nothing to do with coming through the leagues of being English its about how sustainable it is at the highest level. He is doing very well, but the best managers in the country will work out how to exploit him and then Sheffield will go on a bad run and then it will be a case of seeing how he responds. He might be able to cope brilliantly and go on to be one of the best English mangers out there, but I don't think it is in anyway unreasonable to say that he still needs to prove himself at this level.

I think you have missed the point with half of the post, I will address yours anyway.

Silva did very well in Portugal, winning promotion and silverware. He went to Olympiacos and did the same taking them onto their longest unbeaten run and played Champions League football.

He then had two stints at Premiership clubs who were in bad situations, working wonders at Hull who were more or less already relegated and then getting off to a flying start with Watford. He certainly didn't prove his longevity but he did prove that he is a capable manager who knows how to win games in this league and who can win titles abroad.

Wilder is less proven in this league than Silva. That is a fact.

The managers I listed are not managers I want but they are managers who have spent time in the Premier League and showed that they arent complete mugs. AVB was doing well at Spurs for a while, Southgate is shite but proven himself a somewhat capable international manager and Bilic was the man everyone wanted a few seasons ago, just like people were with Silva last season and Wilder now. Last time I saw, he was doing OK at West Brom too.

I don't want any of those managers but I am trying to show is that its slim pickings out there and you cant even get someone who will guarantee you a minimum level of performance, bar maybe, the first 3 I think it was on the list.

Im half and half with Howe. I just don't see what he is trying to achieve. They can play some decent football but they are open. They have spent a lot of money and they have got better, but when they go on a bad run he goes back to the guys he brought up the league with him. He has spent a lot of money and I actually think he should be doing a bit better than he is, IF, he was that good. I would just fear that we would see more of the same with him.

I didn’t think he had spent that much in the time he’s been in the PL, compared with other teams  in the same time scale, I hadn’t looked so you may well be right. 

[Bailey]

5 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I didn’t think he had spent that much in the time he’s been in the PL, compared with other teams  in the same time scale, I hadn’t looked so you may well be right. 

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/bournemouth/english-football-teams/bournemouth-transfers

Maybe not compared to all other teams, there are certainly plenty of sides like Fulham who go out and piss it all up the wall but in respect of an established manager who has been at the club a long time he has spent a fair amount. It is obviously not at our level of spending, but it is still a lot. The signings haven't really worked on the whole either, although Ake at £2mil is a steal.

[Newty82]

6 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I didn’t think he had spent that much in the time he’s been in the PL, compared with other teams  in the same time scale, I hadn’t looked so you may well be right. 

Net spend is about £133mill over last 5 seasons. Or £26mill per season net. It's about bang average in the PL. Obviously the number differs depending on the info source, but what ever the source, they still sit about middle for net spend.

For reference, our net is about £275mill.

[Newty82]

3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/bournemouth/english-football-teams/bournemouth-transfers

Maybe not compared to all other teams, there are certainly plenty of sides like Fulham who go out and piss it all up the wall but in respect of an established manager who has been at the club a long time he has spent a fair amount. It is obviously not at our level of spending, but it is still a lot. The signings haven't really worked on the whole either, although Ake at £2mil is a steal.

We used the same site there!

I think it's hard to judge transfers more now. Every PL club is getting ripped off, well, below the top 6 anyway. It's all an expensive gamble.

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

Net spend is about £133mill over last 5 seasons. Or £26mill per season net. It's about bang average in the PL. Obviously the number differs depending on the info source, but what ever the source, they still sit about middle for net spend.

For reference, our net is about £275mill.

Not a lot of difference then. 

[DownUnderToff]

21 hours ago, Blueherts said:

Kovac

Was thinking about Kovac.  Looking at his game style (at Frankfurt), I'm not sure we've got the players to suit.

[DavisJD]

Ange Postecoglou

Currently top of the J League (where Arsene Wenger came to Arsenal from), in his 3rd season. 

Has a distinct style of attacking football, plays youth, has won trophies and leagues with just about every club he has managed.

Has experience at the world cup with a team severely lacking in quality.

Big step up obviously, but left field.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange_Postecoglou