Carlo Ancelotti

[nogs]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Then why did we try and play out from the back in those two games? That's the bit I don't understand. We can knock the ball long and play for the second balls and put our stamp on the game from there. 

Even the likes of Richarlison, Walcott, DCL, Sidibe  (at right wing) aren't players who are going to keep hold of possession but can play really well in those long ball/counter situations. 

There is no doubt that Ancellotti has been dealt a shit hand with this side, but play that hand. That's all Ferguson did. Kept it simple and played the way the players can.

I don't think we did against Liverpool. We reverted to aimless hoof ball. Even when we should have scored 3 in the first half it annoyed me coz we weren't set up to go long, if Richarlison had been right up alongside DCL it might have worked but most of the time it just ceded possession. Like I've said elsewhere, I think Ancellotti was expecting a stronger Liverpool side and we got caught in two minds.

[Shukes]

7 hours ago, Makis said:

How many training sessions has Ancelotti had so far? Five? No wonder they haven't picked up the tactics yet.

He says he hasn’t had time to have one where he employs tactics yet. So to say it’s early days is an understatement. 
We won’t know how good he is until ten matches.

[markjazzbassist]

17 minutes ago, Shukes said:

He says he hasn’t had time to have one where he employs tactics yet. So to say it’s early days is an understatement. 
We won’t know how good he is until ten matches.

this all day.  people already having a go at him, our fans are so fickle.  

[London Blue]

6 hours ago, Palfy said:

Carlo does play out from the back that’s his coaching style, played like that at every club he’s managed, then he gets here and has back line with the the touch of rapist, it must be as frustrating for him as it is scary for us to watch. 

Holgate, Mina and Dinge can play from the back. It's just certain of our so called midfielders Morgan, Gylfi, Delph dont move into position to receive it, and when they do get the ball they lose it or pass it back!

[Palfy]

12 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Holgate, Mina and Dinge can play from the back. It's just certain of our so called midfielders Morgan, Gylfi, Delph dont move into position to receive it, and when they do get the ball they lose it or pass it back!

I’m not going to argue with that most of the team are poor in possession. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, London Blue said:

Holgate, Mina and Dinge can play from the back. It's just certain of our so called midfielders Morgan, Gylfi, Delph dont move into position to receive it, and when they do get the ball they lose it or pass it back!

As good as Holgate is, he very often gives the ball away when he brings it out (it’s that chipped ball, it doesn’t work down the left with a right footer, and spends too much time on the ball and runs out of options). Mina is great at the back, but on the ball he’s no John Stones.  
But, playing from the back has to be a team game, and as you said, the midfield aren’t there for it. Apart from when it’s going well, they all wanted the ball against Burnley. When the Liverpool kids wanted to press, no one had the bottle to do it, midfield or defence. 

[London Blue]

Just now, StevO said:

As good as Holgate is, he very often gives the ball away when he brings it out. Mina is great at the back, but on the ball he’s no John Stones. 
But, playing from the back has to be a team game, and as you said, the midfield aren’t there for it. Apart from when it’s going well, they all wanted the ball against Burnley. When the Liverpool kids wanted to press, no one had the bottle to do it, midfield or defence. 

Your right, none of them have John Stones passing, although Mina and Holgate do try longer passes, (with mixed results) but short passes they are quite good at, which you would expect.

Once we get a settled, decent midfield then the players will learn the system and each others movement and it will be more fluid.

I would like to see a midfield 3 from Davies, Gomes, Iwobi, and Gambin given the chance to work with a settled back 4. Injuries really have fucked us over in midfield this year.

[Newty82]

Good to stir up a response there!!! Haha

I know it seems to stir up a negative reaction if you say anything slightly against Don Carlo...even if you aren't actually doing so! Let me say, I'm as excited as anyone to have him here. Awesome pedigree. However, as far as I'm concerned, it's an open book with empty pages that need writting.

I'm just calling it as I see it. And the last 2 games we have alarmingly turned to going backwards - A LOT. Under no pressure. Then put ourselves under pressure. I may just be scarred from previous attempts at this same play but we looked to making progress in this regard, first with Dunc where we absolutely did not do this. But the intensity has dithered and been replaced with much more passing about that back. Noticeable against Newcastle aswell.

Now I know there is more work to do, but the players haven't just decided to play this way themselves. They're being told to do so from somewhere. Basically I'm just a bit fearful that we try playing in a way that we don't have the players for.

Stay calm. It's not a critiscm. Just an honest innocent observation.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Newty82 said:

Good to stir up a response there!!! Haha

I know it seems to stir up a negative reaction if you say anything slightly against Don Carlo...even if you aren't actually doing so! Let me say, I'm as excited as anyone to have him here. Awesome pedigree. However, as far as I'm concerned, it's an open book with empty pages that need writting.

I'm just calling it as I see it. And the last 2 games we have alarmingly turned to going backwards - A LOT. Under no pressure. Then put ourselves under pressure. I may just be scarred from previous attempts at this same play but we looked to making progress in this regard, first with Dunc where we absolutely did not do this. But the intensity has dithered and been replaced with much more passing about that back. Noticeable against Newcastle aswell.

Now I know there is more work to do, but the players haven't just decided to play this way themselves. They're being told to do so from somewhere. Basically I'm just a bit fearful that we try playing in a way that we don't have the players for.

Stay calm. It's not a critiscm. Just an honest innocent observation.

I have agreed with that, he is trying to put his influences into the team with how he wants them to play, and the players are struggling with it at the moment and some will never be at the standard required to execute it, but he has to try it to find the weaknesses in the team.

And maybe my analogy a touch of a rapist may have been slightly inappropriate even though I felt it summed it up quite well with what we were witnessing, he’s looking for people who are good in bed not those who can’t perform. 
 

And yes you are stirrer so we can agree on that as well

[nogs]

7 hours ago, Newty82 said:

Good to stir up a response there!!! Haha

I know it seems to stir up a negative reaction if you say anything slightly against Don Carlo...even if you aren't actually doing so! Let me say, I'm as excited as anyone to have him here. Awesome pedigree. However, as far as I'm concerned, it's an open book with empty pages that need writting.

I'm just calling it as I see it. And the last 2 games we have alarmingly turned to going backwards - A LOT. Under no pressure. Then put ourselves under pressure. I may just be scarred from previous attempts at this same play but we looked to making progress in this regard, first with Dunc where we absolutely did not do this. But the intensity has dithered and been replaced with much more passing about that back. Noticeable against Newcastle aswell.

Now I know there is more work to do, but the players haven't just decided to play this way themselves. They're being told to do so from somewhere. Basically I'm just a bit fearful that we try playing in a way that we don't have the players for.

Stay calm. It's not a critiscm. Just an honest innocent observation.

Keep calling it as you see it. Some of the interpretations of what constitutes criticism of Ancellotti is a bit bizarre tbh. Saying we've started passing backwards too much or that he picked a shit midfield against Liverpool is hardly calling for his head! 

[Newty82]

6 hours ago, Palfy said:

I have agreed with that, he is trying to put his influences into the team with how he wants them to play, and the players are struggling with it at the moment and some will never be at the standard required to execute it, but he has to try it to find the weaknesses in the team.

And maybe my analogy a touch of a rapist may have been slightly inappropriate even though I felt it summed it up quite well with what we were witnessing, he’s looking for people who are good in bed not those who can’t perform. 
 

And yes you are stirrer so we can agree on that as well

Haha. I had to go back to read that analogy. Work if art.

[Bailey]

21 hours ago, nogs said:

I don't think we did against Liverpool. We reverted to aimless hoof ball. Even when we should have scored 3 in the first half it annoyed me coz we weren't set up to go long, if Richarlison had been right up alongside DCL it might have worked but most of the time it just ceded possession. Like I've said elsewhere, I think Ancellotti was expecting a stronger Liverpool side and we got caught in two minds.

Of course we did. Pickford was rolling it out to Mina or Holgate most of the time when it wasnt a clearance. They were both splitting to pick up the ball and then the two mids were rotating in between but they were marked most of the time as Liverpool could afford to follow them in as they had the extra man to cover the space behind. 

Mina made 46 short passes from 57 total passes. Holgate made 34 from 43. Pickford attempted 20 more passes than he did against Arsenal, the latter only passing short 10 times compared to 19 against Liverpool. Average positions compared game to game show our defensive line in the Arsenal game almost at the same position on the pitch as our midfield were against Liverpool. 

If anything this tactic against a stronger Liverpool side would have gone far worse so it's a good job they played the kids.

20 hours ago, London Blue said:

Holgate, Mina and Dinge can play from the back. It's just certain of our so called midfielders Morgan, Gylfi, Delph dont move into position to receive it, and when they do get the ball they lose it or pass it back!

They do and it's hard to play forward when you are being closed down. If Morgan wasn't showing for it why did he make the 2nd most passes in our side, only beaten by Mina. 

18 hours ago, StevO said:

As good as Holgate is, he very often gives the ball away when he brings it out (it’s that chipped ball, it doesn’t work down the left with a right footer, and spends too much time on the ball and runs out of options). Mina is great at the back, but on the ball he’s no John Stones.  
But, playing from the back has to be a team game, and as you said, the midfield aren’t there for it. Apart from when it’s going well, they all wanted the ball against Burnley. When the Liverpool kids wanted to press, no one had the bottle to do it, midfield or defence. 

I actually really like Mina with the he ball at his feet. He draws attackers out and still plays a simple pass most of the time rather than the heart and mouth that Stones was at times. Mina is definitely the best ball playing defender though.

There is also a massive difference between Burnley and Liverpool. Burnley, especially away, give you most of your own half to play. It's easy for everyone to get into position. We also had Bernard in half spaces in more of a 10 role than a wide player, meaning we effectively created another midfielder when Digne could get forward. Against Liverpool they are on you all over the pitch. The movement up front was crap, the midfield was overrun meaning that a lot of the time they were facing goal and under pressure. The last thing you want to do as a midfielder in that situation is turn and risk losing possession. In fact it's exactly what Liverpool's tactics want you to do. If you are going to lay it off the passing has to be so sharp and everyone needs to be singing from the same hymm sheet like they do at City, where everyone is in space and ready to receive the ball. Our whole side is a million miles from that.

I just can't see why on earth we tried playing in that style with the players we have. I would hope he wouldn't try the same again if he was to replay the game.

[MikeO]

"Since Carlo Ancelotti's first Premier League match in charge on 26 December, Everton have had more shots than any other team (50)."

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, MikeO said:

"Since Carlo Ancelotti's first Premier League match in charge on 26 December, Everton have had more shots than any other team (50)."

What a great stat, but how many were on target. 

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

It's damning really, shows that despite the improved form of Calvert Lewin we are in dire need of a proper goal scorer.

It also shows that players like Gylfi, Morgan and Walcott have been blasting everything high and wide.

And that’s been the problem with us even under Silva we have had the most possession the most attempts at goal the most on target and still lost, to date 3 years later for all the talk we still haven’t come close to replacing Lukaku. 

[Palfy]

6 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

It's an absolute disgrace. It's as if those at the top of the club have forgotten what is required to win football matches. An article came out today saying we snubbed the wonderkid who is banging them it at Bayern, Zirkzee. He admits that he was ready to sign a contract but the plug was pulled as the club wanted players like fucking Bolasie

that has been us to date, but hopefully with Ancelotti the money will be spent in the right areas on the right players, hopefully

[MikeO]

20 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

It's an absolute disgrace. It's as if those at the top of the club have forgotten what is required to win football matches. An article came out today saying we snubbed the wonderkid who is banging them it at Bayern, Zirkzee. He admits that he was ready to sign a contract but the plug was pulled as the club wanted players like fucking Bolasie

Not exactly accurate according to the Echo (directly quoting him)..

"Ronald Koeman was coach, Romelu Lukaku left for Manchester United that summer and I got the feeling from Everton that there was a good chance I could really become something there.

"They even offered me a contract whilst I was on trial.

"After I first trained with Bayern, I knew that's who I wanted to join. I told myself, let me do three sessions - then I'll decide if I'm good enough.

"They told me I have the quality, but also that they wanted to work on my conditioning, among other things. They've been true to their word.

"I want to become the striker at Bayern - that's always been my objective."

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/breakthrough-bayern-munich-star-admits-17537002

[Palfy]

3 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Not exactly accurate according to the Echo (directly quoting him)..

"Ronald Koeman was coach, Romelu Lukaku left for Manchester United that summer and I got the feeling from Everton that there was a good chance I could really become something there.

"They even offered me a contract whilst I was on trial.

"After I first trained with Bayern, I knew that's who I wanted to join. I told myself, let me do three sessions - then I'll decide if I'm good enough.

"They told me I have the quality, but also that they wanted to work on my conditioning, among other things. They've been true to their word.

"I want to become the striker at Bayern - that's always been my objective."

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/breakthrough-bayern-munich-star-admits-17537002

I accept that but I don’t like it for obvious reasons. 

[StevO]

52 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

It's damning really, shows that despite the improved form of Calvert Lewin we are in dire need of a proper goal scorer.

It also shows that players like Gylfi, Morgan and Walcott have been blasting everything high and wide.

How many of those 50 shots were from Gylfi, Morgan and Walcott?

[Palfy]

29 minutes ago, StevO said:

How many of those 50 shots were from Gylfi, Morgan and Walcott?

Fuck knows, but boy are we in the shit.  

[nogs]

1 hour ago, TallPaul1878 said:

It's an absolute disgrace. It's as if those at the top of the club have forgotten what is required to win football matches. An article came out today saying we snubbed the wonderkid who is banging them it at Bayern, Zirkzee. He admits that he was ready to sign a contract but the plug was pulled as the club wanted players like fucking Bolasie

I wouldn't worry about that. How sick must Arsenal fans feel about Gnabry? 

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

How many of those 50 shots were from Gylfi, Morgan and Walcott?

Don't let facts get in the way of a good moan StevO. Who actually had the shots isn't important.

I'm going to blame Pickford for them. Some of them long balls must have counted as shots. Useless.

[nogs]

3 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Feel free to go and google them up for us

Got bored and did it. The stat is slightly misleading because 42 of the 50 were against Burnley and Newcastle. 10 of those 42 were DCL but he did score 3. None from 32 from the rest of the team would be an issue, except we won so it doesnt matter. 8 attempts in two games v City and Liverpool reserves is a bigger problem. 

[nogs]

11 minutes ago, nogs said:

Got bored and did it. The stat is slightly misleading because 42 of the 50 were against Burnley and Newcastle. 10 of those 42 were DCL but he did score 3. None from 32 from the rest of the team would be an issue, except we won so it doesnt matter. 8 attempts in two games v City and Liverpool reserves is a bigger problem. 

Actually, WhoScored.com has it as 7 attempts v City and 11 v Liverpool. Which would make 60 in four games... 

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, nogs said:

Actually, WhoScored.com has it as 7 attempts v City and 11 v Liverpool. Which would make 60 in four games... 

Stat was league games only so Liverpool not included.

[StevO]

4 hours ago, Bailey said:

Don't let facts get in the way of a good moan StevO. Who actually had the shots isn't important.

I'm going to blame Pickford for them. Some of them long balls must have counted as shots. Useless.

My thoughts exactly. 
 

I’ve got to be honest, as pissed off as I was at the weekend, what I’ve seen on her and social media of the last few days worries me even more. I’ve been at some terrible atmospheres at Goodison over the years, but I’m really concerned about Saturday. We’ve managed to pull in one of the best managers in world football and I’m really concerned that after a month in the job he could end up regretting it. This feels beyond toxic at the moment. 

[London Blue]

53 minutes ago, StevO said:

My thoughts exactly. 
 

I’ve got to be honest, as pissed off as I was at the weekend, what I’ve seen on her and social media of the last few days worries me even more. I’ve been at some terrible atmospheres at Goodison over the years, but I’m really concerned about Saturday. We’ve managed to pull in one of the best managers in world football and I’m really concerned that after a month in the job he could end up regretting it. This feels beyond toxic at the moment. 

I think most of the fans, the vast majority, recognise what a massive coup it is in landing Ancelotti and will give the team their support.

Ancelotti is no fool, he has no loyalty to any of the 4 or 5 players who have been so poor, I doubt they will be in the squad, and the fans will respect that. 

[chicagoblue]

1 hour ago, London Blue said:

I think most of the fans, the vast majority, recognise what a massive coup it is in landing Ancelotti and will give the team their support.

Ancelotti is no fool, he has no loyalty to any of the 4 or 5 players who have been so poor, I doubt they will be in the squad, and the fans will respect that. 

That would be an impressive statement

[Romey 1878]

10 hours ago, London Blue said:

I think most of the fans, the vast majority, recognise what a massive coup it is in landing Ancelotti and will give the team their support.

Ancelotti is no fool, he has no loyalty to any of the 4 or 5 players who have been so poor, I doubt they will be in the squad, and the fans will respect that. 

If Gylfi isn't even on the bench tomorrow you'll hear my cheer from my seat at Goodison all the way down in London. Honestly, I'd have all of the other culprits play for us again before him.

[nogs]

11 hours ago, MikeO said:

Stat was league games only so Liverpool not included.

Ah fair enough.