Corona Virus

[Palfy]

3 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

He’s more than likely got it because he was a fucking idiot and shook hands with patients he knew had coronavirus!

Not wishing him ill either like. 

There is that as well I suppose. 

[MikeO]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52173872

[Chach]

10 hours ago, Hafnia said:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid

So that's a ranking that was changed based on new data though and by all accounts I've heard from Epidemiologists this virus ranks down the scale in terms of infectious diseases, one I heard who was debunking the "this escaped from the Level 4 infectious disease lab in Wuhan" conspiracy theory said this was level 2 at best.

Even when you look at the criteria listed in the link you supplied it doesn't meet the criteria for a HCID.

The particular claim made that they lowered it specifically to reduce the PPE required doesn't seem to hold up to scrutiny because the PPE requirements have have been updated and increased.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/wuhan-novel-coronavirus-infection-prevention-and-control/covid-19-personal-protective-equipment-ppe

These decisions are being made by experts in the field who are held to the highest ethical standards, not elected members of parliament (whose ethics are questionable at the best of times)

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, Chach said:

So that's a ranking that was changed based on new data though and by all accounts I've heard from Epidemiologists this virus ranks down the scale in terms of infectious diseases, one I heard who was debunking the "this escaped from the Level 4 infectious disease lab in Wuhan" conspiracy theory said this was level 2 at best.

Even when you look at the criteria listed in the link you supplied it doesn't meet the criteria for a HCID.

The particular claim made that they lowered it specifically to reduce the PPE required doesn't seem to hold up to scrutiny because the PPE requirements have have been updated and increased.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/wuhan-novel-coronavirus-infection-prevention-and-control/covid-19-personal-protective-equipment-ppe

These decisions are being made by experts in the field who are held to the highest ethical standards, not elected members of parliament (whose ethics are questionable at the best of times)

Would you like to go and look after some highly likely covid patients armed with nothing more than a surgical mask between their air particles and your lungs - and be told you can get the required protected standard when you are treating a covid tested positive patient?  Surgical masks offer very little protection for the majority of medical procedures. 

The fact that patients aren't getting tested till they have symptoms and even then it's a 3 day wait.... which added on to the 14 day incubation period means you are likely facing huge amounts of viral load every shift. Would you be happy to work in those conditions????

Experts in the field?  Bollocks, it's all about the inability to protect due to poor procurement and preparation.  School kids making visors for staff.... tattoo artists dropping off gloves etc

Look at the UK health care staff vs those in South Korea....  

Cross infection is rife, vulnerable patients without covid are being seen by doctors who are vehicles for transmission due to poor PPE.

It's absolutely scandalous. Which part of the UK are you in? How is your local general doing? Ate your staff adequately protected???

People always look at the picture of blokes over 100 years ago working up the rockerfella centre, sat on iron girders having a ciggie and lunch.... accepting that as mad as it was they probably needed the money and sacrificed safety for the ability to feed their family..... health care staff in 2020 shouldn't be those blokes!

 

[Chach]

28 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Would you like to go and look after some highly likely covid patients armed with nothing more than a surgical mask between their air particles and your lungs - and be told you can get the required protected standard when you are treating a covid tested positive patient?  Surgical masks offer very little protection for the majority of medical procedures. 

The fact that patients aren't getting tested till they have symptoms and even then it's a 3 day wait.... which added on to the 14 day incubation period means you are likely facing huge amounts of viral load every shift. Would you be happy to work in those conditions????

Experts in the field?  Bollocks, it's all about the inability to protect due to poor procurement and preparation.  School kids making visors for staff.... tattoo artists dropping off gloves etc

Look at the UK health care staff vs those in South Korea....  

Cross infection is rife, vulnerable patients without covid are being seen by doctors who are vehicles for transmission due to poor PPE.

It's absolutely scandalous. Which part of the UK are you in? How is your local general doing? Ate your staff adequately protected???

People always look at the picture of blokes over 100 years ago working up the rockerfella centre, sat on iron girders having a ciggie and lunch.... accepting that as mad as it was they probably needed the money and sacrificed safety for the ability to feed their family..... health care staff in 2020 shouldn't be those blokes!

 

Very emotional response there mate, you claimed the government had purposely downgraded a disease in order to save money on PPE and laid the entire blame at the feet of the elected representatives. A post pretty much anyone with a political bias against tories agreed with as though it was the gospel truth.

When challenged with reasonable and factual information, all the toys go straight out of the pram and the whataboutism starts even though you get very close to the truth when you state it's very likely a failure of planning and procurement.

And people wonder why our political discourse is in the toilet.

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Chach said:

Very emotional response there mate, you claimed the government had purposely downgraded a disease in order to save money on PPE and laid the entire blame at the feet of the elected representatives. A post pretty much anyone with a political bias against tories agreed with as though it was the gospel truth.

When challenged with reasonable and factual information, all the toys go straight out of the pram and the whataboutism starts even though you get very close to the truth when you state it's very likely a failure of planning and procurement.

And people wonder why our political discourse is in the toilet.

You seem to think I'm basing this on political parties.... I couldn't give a shit about political persuasion and my opinion isn't formed based on who is in power. This is a failing of good people and those responsible need to be held accountable.  I'm sure when there is a public enquiry we will learn some real truths....

The toys aren't in the pram and not should they be -   I have factual first hand information which isn't sugarcoated bullshit. 

So would you like to confirm that you would happily go in to do a job that would potentially cost you, your family and other patients their lives because of inadequate PPE? 

[Chach]

7 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

You seem to think I'm basing this on political parties.... I couldn't give a shit about political persuasion and my opinion isn't formed based on who is in power. This is a failing of good people and those responsible need to be held accountable.  I'm sure when there is a public enquiry we will learn some real truths....

The toys aren't in the pram and not should they be -   I have factual first hand information which isn't sugarcoated bullshit. 

So would you like to confirm that you would happily go in to do a job that would potentially cost you, your family and other patients their lives because of inadequate PPE? 

You're still trying to deflect from the point you made about the government purposely downgrading the disease, that a very big claim for which you still haven't supplied any evidence. Is it so hard to just admit that maybe you misunderstood or were misguided by someone who had an agenda?

You're "first hand information" is anecdotal, its a large healthcare system some areas will be poorly run, others will not.

With regards to your last point, I have never been in a position where my employer was responsible for my PPE but I always took responsibility for my own and that of my employees.

[Hafnia]

28 minutes ago, Chach said:

You're still trying to deflect from the point you made about the government purposely downgrading the disease, that a very big claim for which you still haven't supplied any evidence. Is it so hard to just admit that maybe you misunderstood or were misguided by someone who had an agenda?

You're "first hand information" is anecdotal, its a large healthcare system some areas will be poorly run, others will not.

With regards to your last point, I have never been in a position where my employer was responsible for my PPE but I always took responsibility for my own and that of my employees.

You seem more arsed about point scoring... which says alot I guess. I'm not conceding anything, and as for a that anecdotal nonsense, it's always anecdotal when trying to go up against the government isn't it. 

The justification for downgrading was a "low" mortality rate.... mortality rates will be much lower when lots of deaths have been classed as pneumonia due to the complete lack of clinical diagnosed due to no testing.  But I'm probably wasting my time trying to convince you of that. It's a complete and utter farce. A fraction of promised tests have been Conducted, namely for the staff themselves. 

That's my last response on this.

[Chach]

1 minute ago, Hafnia said:

You seem more arsed about point scoring... which says alot I guess. I'm not conceding anything, and as for a that anecdotal nonsense, it's always anecdotal when trying to go up against the government isn't it. 

The justification for downgrading was a "low" mortality rate.... mortality rates will be much lower when lots of deaths have been classed as pneumonia due to the complete lack of clinical diagnosed due to no testing.  But I'm probably wasting my time trying to convince you of that. It's a complete and utter farce. A fraction of promised tests have been Conducted, namely for the staff themselves. 

That's my last response on this.

Case fatality rate*

All the deaths will be counted, take your tin foil hat off.

Yes they might have got off to a poor start, they're a big clumsy organisation and preparing for something that has no one knew existed a few months ago or what symptoms it would cause is likely quite a bit harder than people imagine.  The reality could very well be they're doing the absolute best they can under the circumstances.

 

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, Chach said:

Case fatality rate*

All the deaths will be counted, take your tin foil hat off.

Yes they might have got off to a poor start, they're a big clumsy organisation and preparing for something that has no one knew existed a few months ago or what symptoms it would cause is likely quite a bit harder than people imagine.  The reality could very well be they're doing the absolute best they can under the circumstances.

 

So why are the Germans so far a head off
us in testing and Ventilators and PPE as a bigger clumsy organisation working in the same time frame as ourselves, could it quite possibly be because they’ve invested over the years in their health care and were quicker to counteract what was happening elsewhere, if none of them then please explain why?

And explain what you mean by circumstances, circumstances out of there control or circumstances they brought on themselves. 

[Chach]

17 hours ago, Palfy said:

So why are the Germans so far a head off
us in testing and Ventilators and PPE as a bigger clumsy organisation working in the same time frame as ourselves, could it quite possibly be because they’ve invested over the years in their health care and were quicker to counteract what was happening elsewhere, if none of them then please explain why?

And explain what you mean by circumstances, circumstances out of there control or circumstances they brought on themselves. 

Germany doesn't have the same healthcare system as the UK,  in terms of the things you mention above there I would have thought that was self evident. Germany are dominant when it comes to manufacturing.

Also I would make the point it's a bit early to be drawing conclusions about who is doing better, that's something that can only really be determined at the end.

 

 

[Romey 1878]

 

 

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, Chach said:

Germany doesn't have the same healthcare system as the UK,  in terms of the things you mention above there I would have thought that was self evident. Germany are dominant when it comes to manufacturing.

Also I would make the point it's a bit early to be drawing conclusions about who is doing better, that's something that can only really be determined at the end.

 

 

Poor answer totally ignored everything I asked by given answers to questions I never asked, Germany’s manufacturing capability has nothing to do with why they had more ventilators in the off set than us and why they bought thousands more as soon as they saw what was happening else where, they also bought hundreds of thousands of testing kits at the same time, when this government were talking about shaking hands with people who had tested positive and were advocating herd immunisation, you may work as a civil servant and believe that gives you a better insight into how government works, but please don’t treat us like idiots we all know why the Germans are in a better position than us, it’s because they reacted far quicker to what was happening by weeks. 
So testing is no indication of who is doing better Germany testing I believe 60,000 plus thousand a week and this country struggling to 10,000 I think the WHO would beg to differ with you on that point they have been advocating test test test for over 2 months now. 

[pete0]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/staff-her-majestys-passport-office-told-return-work-a4410961.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2_qlYoeL1Y3BUZ_XVn3susSmVDzUXRCkE7xGMDOGFi7rnm6iRj8fsdq8k#Echobox=1586438388

[Tonsta]

Could it be that Germany has the buying power for the EU and have kept most of it, they are drip feeding France, Spain ,and Italy. All are short of PPE.

The opinion here in Spain is not good towards them, and Italy have been burning the Eu flag in protest,

 

[MikeO]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52242516

[Palfy]

23 minutes ago, MikeO said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52242516

It’s so wrong that this has happened and still is, still doctors and nurses are being asked to put their life’s on the line with out the correct PPE now right this minute. 
The Tories in the last 10 years have given us an NHS that wouldn’t look out of place in a third world country, and that truly saddens me to say that, an institution that was once the envy of the world decimated by cut after cut after cut. 

[Tonsta]

24 minutes ago, Palfy said:

It’s so wrong that this has happened and still is, still doctors and nurses are being asked to put their life’s on the line with out the correct PPE now right this minute. 
The Tories in the last 10 years have given us an NHS that wouldn’t look out of place in a third world country, and that truly saddens me to say that, an institution that was once the envy of the world decimated by cut after cut after cut. 

It did say in the news i saw on the bbc that he was not short of any PPE, sometimes there is no one to blame.

Very sad though it is. I think all these negative comments about the NHS is an insult to the great service we have.

[Palfy]

21 minutes ago, Tonsta said:

It did say in the news i saw on the bbc that he was not short of any PPE, sometimes there is no one to blame.

Very sad though it is. I think all these negative comments about the NHS is an insult to the great service we have.

Well different to what I saw and his son said, also today nurses at a Newcastle hospital scared to death because they don’t have the right PPE that was today, the government now admitting they haven’t and aren’t delivering on PPE, now they are formulating plan C or D starting to lose count, when we are talking about life’s  you should be getting it right plan A if not definitely plan B.  
The people who work in it are great they are saints and do a fantastic job with hands tied, luckily for us there not in for the money it’s very much a vocation for many of them, but the NHS has been massively under funded by the Tories which has led to untold suffering and deaths to patients, now with this virus that under funding is killing the people who work in it as well. 

[pete0]

30 minutes ago, Tonsta said:

It did say in the news i saw on the bbc that he was not short of any PPE, sometimes there is no one to blame.

Very sad though it is. I think all these negative comments about the NHS is an insult to the great service we have.

The negative comments are towards the government. Compare the NHS to 15 years ago and there's a massive difference. The staff are doing the best they can but this government has tied their hands behind their back. Under-staffed and under-equipped, that's purely on the government. 

[Romey 1878]

 

 

[pete0]

I really hope this Government is held to account. Every single Conservative should go to prison. They have endangered the public and should face the consequences. 

 

[pete0]

https://www.redpepper.org.uk/the-politics-of-covid-19-busy-parks-and-public-blame/?fbclid=IwAR2rKgc11sh726nHaHAGagxt-o8Bm9ZUh3-ieODZM4vtzIybncRWpNH-vfc

 

[Chach]

On 08/04/2020 at 19:52, Palfy said:

Poor answer totally ignored everything I asked by given answers to questions I never asked, Germany’s manufacturing capability has nothing to do with why they had more ventilators in the off set than us and why they bought thousands more as soon as they saw what was happening else where, they also bought hundreds of thousands of testing kits at the same time, when this government were talking about shaking hands with people who had tested positive and were advocating herd immunisation, you may work as a civil servant and believe that gives you a better insight into how government works, but please don’t treat us like idiots we all know why the Germans are in a better position than us, it’s because they reacted far quicker to what was happening by weeks. 
So testing is no indication of who is doing better Germany testing I believe 60,000 plus thousand a week and this country struggling to 10,000 I think the WHO would beg to differ with you on that point they have been advocating test test test for over 2 months now. 

Mate, go back and read the post I was responding to, it was barely comprehensible. I was literally  half guessing what point you were trying to make.

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, Chach said:

Mate, go back and read the post I was responding to, it was barely comprehensible. I was literally  half guessing what point you were trying to make.

Ok fair enough Chach I understand,  I’m trying to avoid to many posts on this at the moment, it’s gotten quite close to home for me at the moment, and I’m losing the plot with it all to be honest. 

[Chach]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Ok fair enough Chach I understand,  I’m trying to avoid to many posts on this at the moment, it’s gotten quite close to home for me at the moment, and I’m losing the plot with it all to be honest. 

Fair enough mate, hope everything's ok with you and yours.

[MikeO]

[pete0]

https://www.gofundme.com/f/save-the-sun-newspaper?utm_source=customer&utm_medium=copy_link-tip&utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet&fbclid=IwAR2MzyrCyuFQF1iIJmkwjgBdB21flF4CvXr0GsvK5d50pHnYdd85QyuAgV4

 

 

[MikeO]

45 minutes ago, pete0 said:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/save-the-sun-newspaper?utm_source=customer&utm_medium=copy_link-tip&utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet&fbclid=IwAR2MzyrCyuFQF1iIJmkwjgBdB21flF4CvXr0GsvK5d50pHnYdd85QyuAgV4

Quality!

[MikeO]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52261859