Jump to content

Corona Virus


Palfy
 Share

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, holystove said:

They started testing everyone who comes into the hospitals here, people with broken legs etc.. turns out 8% have 0 symptoms yet are carrying the virus (and are contagious).

8% have it, spread it, and don't even know it !

That proves the need for whole sale testing as in the USA, here today we rolled out our first testing station for NHS staff only 57 days after the first confirmed case, we still have Doctors and Nurses treating patients with lack of, and inadequate PPE 57 days on, I fear we will be like Italy where doctors and nurses are dying on a daily basis. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, MikeO said:

Horrific times for people going through cancer treatment (wearing my Macmillan hat); some being told that chemo is too risky due to the damage to the immune system and some having radiotherapy periods reduced from 6/7 weeks to four because of the risk of going to hospital. People are dying from covid but people will also die from insufficient cancer treatment due to it.

This is the kind of systemic failure that leads me to believe there is no actual plan.

If you don't have a plan to treat cancer patients in an event as foreseeable as this then thats a huge failure of planning.

There doesn't even seem to be a plan for the  other at risk, the diabetics, the asthmatics/people with other respiratory diseases. etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Do you know what was part of the celebrations the Chinese now their lockdown has been lifted? A reopening of their live animal markets... wow.

If that’s true, I can see China getting a lot of bills from the rest of the world looking for compensation 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 28/03/2020 at 13:04, Palfy said:

I agree a lot of businesses will realise that working from home is a far better and cheaper option.

And banks have been for years taking advantage of the digital age, just look at the amount of high street branches that have closed. 
I’ve banked with NatWest since I was 19 personal and business and I have seen plenty of changes in my local town over the years, 5 high street banks now 1, 3 offices now 1 which my business manager has said looks like closing. 
My daughter runs the fraud department for a large mortgage lender and works from home quite a bit, the advancement of technology pretty much allows you to be in the office when you are at home. 

Be careful what you wish for.

As soon as UK corporations realise that work can be carried out on line from home, it will be. But not from UK homes. It will be done from second and third world countries (just like the call centres) wherever possible so as to reduce costs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, RPG said:

Be careful what you wish for.

As soon as UK corporations realise that work can be carried out on line from home, it will be. But not from UK homes. It will be done from second and third world countries (just like the call centres) wherever possible so as to reduce costs.

Outsourcing has been on the rise for years, decades even, and businesses have been balancing that out between abroad (e.g. banks outsourcing call centers to India, then bringing them back) and keeping things in the local economy. This won’t change things for the worse, it will make things better, although the roles might change which will make things better for some whilst others might suffer. Automation is another good example of moving jobs from one job type to creating others. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, RPG said:

Be careful what you wish for.

As soon as UK corporations realise that work can be carried out on line from home, it will be. But not from UK homes. It will be done from second and third world countries (just like the call centres) wherever possible so as to reduce costs.

Quite possibly, but the problem with that would be would businesses have a client base if no one was working so had no use of there services. 
But I do get where you’re coming from. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Matt said:

I didn’t say it created for those it put out of work. I said it creates new jobs for others. 

Can you elaborate on this then "This won’t change things for the worse, it will make things better"

So far I've only seen this lead to some fairly bad political outcomes and worse working conditions, which is going to get a whole lot worse when artificial intelligence is added to the equation and neither labour nor brain is required.

Not saying we should stop progress, just think we should have our eyes open to the realities of creating a new underclass with no place for them in the economy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Chach said:

Can you elaborate on this then "This won’t change things for the worse, it will make things better"

So far I've only seen this lead to some fairly bad political outcomes and worse working conditions, which is going to get a whole lot worse when artificial intelligence is added to the equation and neither labour nor brain is required.

Not saying we should stop progress, just think we should have our eyes open to the realities of creating a new underclass with no place for them in the economy.

I meant more mechanical automation, AI isn’t something I know a lot about or pretend to understand. But the principle is the same; expertise won’t necessarily be with the people doing the current work, but it will create more possibilities than it takes away. It’s been true of most technological advances over the long term.

I guess I over-generalized a bit, but back to remote working; from my experience and knowledge it is a positive thing. It all depends on how the local governments develop the growth. Considering the UK has gone for a “me first” approach, I don’t see them letting companies outsource as much out of the country and will encourage companies to keep the jobs in-house (so to speak). Business will save massively on things like rent, taxes, some benefits (I know companies who help with public transport for example), travel expenses... there’s more money to be made and saved than making very expensive and potentially risky outsourcing transitions 

It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if the government didnt do any of this to encourage businesses to do this though. 

Sorry for rambling, got a 5 year old climbing all over me asking to play...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Matt said:

I meant more mechanical automation, AI isn’t something I know a lot about or pretend to understand. But the principle is the same; expertise won’t necessarily be with the people doing the current work, but it will create more possibilities than it takes away. It’s been true of most technological advances over the long term.

I guess I over-generalized a bit, but back to remote working; from my experience and knowledge it is a positive thing. It all depends on how the local governments develop the growth. Considering the UK has gone for a “me first” approach, I don’t see them letting companies outsource as much out of the country and will encourage companies to keep the jobs in-house (so to speak). Business will save massively on things like rent, taxes, some benefits (I know companies who help with public transport for example), travel expenses... there’s more money to be made and saved than making very expensive and potentially risky outsourcing transitions 

It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if the government didnt do any of this to encourage businesses to do this though. 

Sorry for rambling, got a 5 year old climbing all over me asking to play...

Yeah I don't think experts are as unanimously bullish about the AI technology boom creating jobs like previous technology booms, drivers of cars and trucks are going to be the first jobs to go which is the job pretty much anyone can currently get, obviously there will be a lot of new jobs for people who know how to code but they're not going to be the people who lose the driver jobs and we already have serious problems inequality now.

Regards to WFH I personally don't like it so pretty biased, I like the interaction and camaraderie with workmates and I only live 3km from the office so spend no time commuting/in traffic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Chach said:

Yeah I don't think experts are as unanimously bullish about the AI technology boom creating jobs like previous technology booms, drivers of cars and trucks are going to be the first jobs to go which is the job pretty much anyone can currently get, obviously there will be a lot of new jobs for people who know how to code but they're not going to be the people who lose the driver jobs and we already have serious problems inequality now.

Regards to WFH I personally don't like it so pretty biased, I like the interaction and camaraderie with workmates and I only live 3km from the office so spend no time commuting/in traffic.

I would hope that a 'middle course' could be found. Instead of outsourcing people, outsource the office.  Move certain 'sub' offices out of high density population areas and closer to existing commuter belts. Then, continue with a 5 day working office week but with the option of 2/5 days done from home - or something like that. It preserves the social interaction (which is very important) allows for some working from home (also good) and reduces traffic and pollution while keeping the jobs in UK. If done efficiently, it could even reduce the physical size of offices needed as employees could pair up and share the same office space, one working from home while the other is in the office and vice versa.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Chach said:

Yeah I don't think experts are as unanimously bullish about the AI technology boom creating jobs like previous technology booms, drivers of cars and trucks are going to be the first jobs to go which is the job pretty much anyone can currently get, obviously there will be a lot of new jobs for people who know how to code but they're not going to be the people who lose the driver jobs and we already have serious problems inequality now.

Regards to WFH I personally don't like it so pretty biased, I like the interaction and camaraderie with workmates and I only live 3km from the office so spend no time commuting/in traffic.

I have experienced both sides. My last job enforced no WFH which created nothing but stress for me, but I loved that job largely because of the people, so i completely understand that part. Commute aside which was a bitch. 

The job before that allowed for 2 days at home per week and was a 5min drive, but the company/department was so poorly managed that regardless of whether I was in the office or not, I ended up hating the job (although the team were great). 

There’s many examples of specific scenarios, but overall WFH is way more beneficial for a company from my experience 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Passed the 30k global deaths apparently, 670k reported cases, gods know how many actual cases there are. Could be millions. I don’t see our lockdown ending at the end of April even though Switzerland has reacted well. Can’t see this not being top of the news for the next 4 months to be honest. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, RPG said:

I would hope that a 'middle course' could be found. Instead of outsourcing people, outsource the office.  Move certain 'sub' offices out of high density population areas and closer to existing commuter belts. Then, continue with a 5 day working office week but with the option of 2/5 days done from home - or something like that. It preserves the social interaction (which is very important) allows for some working from home (also good) and reduces traffic and pollution while keeping the jobs in UK. If done efficiently, it could even reduce the physical size of offices needed as employees could pair up and share the same office space, one working from home while the other is in the office and vice versa.

I also see a future where job sharing will become the norm to create more employment in a shrinking market place, where people will do a 3 days a week, prices globally will drop for the everyday needs to live a sustainable life in line with the new average wage. 
This virus if prolonged could be the kick start for leading us down this route. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I hear the first NHS workers have died of Coronavirus. It can’t have helped that they’ve not had adequate protective equipment. 

Complete and utter disregard for human life.  They had months to prepare for this.  They downgraded the required levels of PPE because they never had correct supplies.  

Surgical masks??? They needed to be FFP3 masks with filters.

Disgusting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Complete and utter disregard for human life.  They had months to prepare for this.  They downgraded the required levels of PPE because they never had correct supplies.  

Surgical masks??? They needed to be FFP3 masks with filters.

Disgusting.

A government minister today said live on TV it would be wrong to expect our nurses and doctors on the front line to work without the proper PPE, that’s correct and I completely agree, now tell us why you have and still continue to let them care for patients without the proper PPE. 
I can’t find the words to describe how much admiration I have for these people, who care so much about others that they put themselves in so much danger knowing that they aren’t adequately protected. 
They are mothers fathers sisters brothers wife’s and husbands like all of us they want to return home safely to their families, yet this government are playing god with their lives. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I hear the first NHS workers have died of Coronavirus. It can’t have helped that they’ve not had adequate protective equipment. 

In any other industry if you sent or gave someone a job to do and you didn’t supply them with PPE and they died, you would more than likely be facing a corporate man slaughter charge and rightly so. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Complete and utter disregard for human life.  They had months to prepare for this.  They downgraded the required levels of PPE because they never had correct supplies.  

Surgical masks??? They needed to be FFP3 masks with filters.

Disgusting.

Haven’t you heard? This government are doing an outstanding job during the crisis and are leading us admirably. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Not to mention the 750,000 who have volunteered to help out; shouldn't be needed really but they deserve recognition as well.

100% mate I have applied to help but not heard anything yet.

I know you’re not in a position to do so Mike with your wife’s and your health, but I feel I know you well enough to know that if circumstances were different you would be one of the first to put they’re names down.

Stay safe. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Palfy said:

100% mate I have applied to help but not heard anything yet.

I know you’re not in a position to do so Mike with your wife’s and your health, but I feel I know you well enough to know that if circumstances were different you would be one of the first to put they’re names down.

Stay safe. 

I would; Josh wanted to as well but we can't risk him bringing it home sadly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Yesterday, one of the patients, terrified, tried to rip off the tubing and ventilator to which he was attached."

I apparently did that myself back in 1994 when I was in an intensive care unit with pneumonia, though I have no memory of it, I was in another world in my brain. I do remember very clearly the following weeks when the slightest thing exhausted me, getting out of the bath for example took around ten minutes of serious effort to achieve. The memory of that is still so vivid and I think that's why I'm a bit scared now, particularly since the radiotherapy damage done to my throat sometimes leaves me breathless even when otherwise healthy. Should be OK as we're in a rural location which obviously carries less risk than those in cities (so far).

Much respect to your offspring though Steve, you have every right to be very proud.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve - Every single person working in the medical profession (home and abroad) and are helping to deal with this have my thanks, pride, admiration for everything they’re doing. From the smallest cog to the biggest cog. They are heroes and are the only ones that deserve those platitudes during all this. I can only speak about the politicians here but I refuse to thank any of ours, the good work of the NHS workers is in spite of the obstacles put in their way by those politicians. So when I see Conservative politicians joining in in that applause for those heroes, it boils my blood. Not long ago they cheered when they voted down increasing their pay. They can fuck off, because it’s those politicians that will be directly responsible for many more deaths than was necessary. I don’t know how they sleep at night and I don’t know how anyone is giving them an ounce of praise. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The lockdown in Wuhan, the Chinese city where the global coronavirus outbreak began, will be partially lifted on 8 April, officials say.

Travel restrictions in the rest of Hubei province, where Wuhan is located, will be lifted from midnight on Tuesday - for residents who are healthy.

A single new case of the virus was reported in Wuhan on Tuesday following almost a week of no reported new cases at all.

 

A light at the end of the tunnel.  ??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Bill said:

The lockdown in Wuhan, the Chinese city where the global coronavirus outbreak began, will be partially lifted on 8 April, officials say.

Travel restrictions in the rest of Hubei province, where Wuhan is located, will be lifted from midnight on Tuesday - for residents who are healthy.

A single new case of the virus was reported in Wuhan on Tuesday following almost a week of no reported new cases at all.

 

A light at the end of the tunnel.  ??

They did have a complete lockdown early which has obviously worked, what everyone will be watching for is when they relax restrictions is if they start getting a second spike, if not that would prove that going in to full lockdown works, and that Italy and Spain with much smaller populations have had more deaths because they left it to late. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tonsta said:

You actually believe what the chinese say, was it a whistle blower, only way you get the truth from them. 

 

16 minutes ago, holystove said:

I agree, those Chinese numbers are very suspect. Whistleblower reports speakof 40.000+ deaths.  We'll never know.

Not entirely sure how China would gain by fabricating numbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, MikeO said:

 

Not entirely sure how China would gain by fabricating numbers.

I'm surprised by your comment.  Creating the illusion that your response is the best one to a crisis is page one in the authoritarian playbook.   

1) They want to keep Chinese people convinced there is no reason to question the leadership, that everything is under control.  That the communist regime is the only regime that had a good handle on the crisis.  Just look at all those capitalist countries with their thousands of deaths...

2) They want to project to the rest of the world how superior their model of government is.  They want countries to look at China as the leader of the world, and the first 'superpower' countries should look to for help and guidance.

It is easy to say in hindsight, but it's becoming clear China mishandled this crisis from the beginning.  This could be their Chernobyl, but as it is China we'll never know for sure how much they knew, when they knew it, and what they could (should) have done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, holystove said:

I'm surprised by your comment.  Creating the illusion that your response is the best one to a crisis is page one in the authoritarian playbook.   

1) They want to keep Chinese people convinced there is no reason to question the leadership, that everything is under control.  That the communist regime is the only regime that had a good handle on the crisis.  Just look at all those capitalist countries with their thousands of deaths...

2) They want to project to the rest of the world how superior their model of government is.  They want countries to look at China as the leader of the world, and the first 'superpower' countries should look to for help and guidance.

It is easy to say in hindsight, but it's becoming clear China mishandled this crisis from the beginning.  This could be their Chernobyl, but as it is China we'll never know for sure how much they knew, when they knew it, and what they could (should) have done.

If that was the case why aren’t we hearing these stories from the people of China, being leaked to journalists through the internet or by another medium. 
China has become a lot more transparent in the last 20 years it’s had to be to become a trading super power, I agree that they still let’s say keep there cards very close to there chests, but I don’t see how they can hide the number of deaths you are talking about from there own citizens which in turn wouldn’t be leaked to the west. 
That’s my view but I could easily be wrong, and the fact that we are not hearing this in the wider media I don’t feel I am. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Palfy said:

If that was the case why aren’t we hearing these stories from the people of China, being leaked to journalists through the internet or by another medium. 
China has become a lot more transparent in the last 20 years it’s had to be to become a trading super power, I agree that they still let’s say keep there cards very close to there chests, but I don’t see how they can hide the number of deaths you are talking about from there own citizens which in turn wouldn’t be leaked to the west. 
That’s my view but I could easily be wrong, and the fact that we are not hearing this in the wider media I don’t feel I am. 

Become a lot more transparent?! We only really get to see what they want us to see, to give this impression they are becoming more transparent. The cover up of the doctor who died from the virus is the latest evidence 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Matt said:

The cover up of the doctor who died from the virus is the latest evidence 

In away that echoes what I’m saying if they struggle to hide the death of one doctor without it being proven and leaked to the west, how are they possible hiding the fact that they’ve had 40,000 plus deaths and saying they’ve only had 3,000 plus. 
I just can’t see what they would gain by trying to do so.

If they have and are that’s a strange one for me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Palfy said:

In away that echoes what I’m saying if they struggle to hide the death of one doctor without it being proven and leaked to the west, how are they possible hiding the fact that they’ve had 40,000 plus deaths and saying they’ve only had 3,000 plus. 
I just can’t see what they would gain by trying to do so.

If they have and are that’s a strange one for me. 

 I believe at that point they had had 500+ deaths already, but even then it was still “leaked” if I remember correctly 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

If that was the case why aren’t we hearing these stories from the people of China, being leaked to journalists through the internet or by another medium. 
China has become a lot more transparent in the last 20 years it’s had to be to become a trading super power, I agree that they still let’s say keep there cards very close to there chests, but I don’t see how they can hide the number of deaths you are talking about from there own citizens which in turn wouldn’t be leaked to the west. 
That’s my view but I could easily be wrong, and the fact that we are not hearing this in the wider media I don’t feel I am. 

here's one source https://www.nationalreview.com/news/wuhan-residents-dismiss-official-coronavirus-death-toll-the-incinerators-have-been-working-around-the-clock/

here's how they covered up at the start https://www.ft.com/content/fa83463a-4737-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

China is anything but transparant. With new technology it's becoming even worse, as their control over the population (including leakers) increases.  Look up the 'social credit system' they're implementing, scary stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, holystove said:

here's one source https://www.nationalreview.com/news/wuhan-residents-dismiss-official-coronavirus-death-toll-the-incinerators-have-been-working-around-the-clock/

here's how they covered up at the start https://www.ft.com/content/fa83463a-4737-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

China is anything but transparant. With new technology it's becoming even worse, as their control over the population (including leakers) increases.  Look up the 'social credit system' they're implementing, scary stuff.

the national review is a barely credible far right publication, i am very surprised you are using them.  it's american far right which is about as anti-China as it gets, i'm not at all surprised they would have an article like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, holystove said:

here's one source https://www.nationalreview.com/news/wuhan-residents-dismiss-official-coronavirus-death-toll-the-incinerators-have-been-working-around-the-clock/

here's how they covered up at the start https://www.ft.com/content/fa83463a-4737-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

China is anything but transparant. With new technology it's becoming even worse, as their control over the population (including leakers) increases.  Look up the 'social credit system' they're implementing, scary stuff.

On our live government update today they were using what’s happening in China as a comparison to what’s happening here, I don’t want this to sound like I’m full of praise for China for all they do or say because I’m not, but surely the British government with all the secret services at there fingertips wouldn’t be publicly publishing the figures on Coronavirus in China if they didn’t think they were genuine, just a thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Palfy said:

On our live government update today they were using what’s happening in China as a comparison to what’s happening here, I don’t want this to sound like I’m full of praise for China for all they do or say because I’m not, but surely the British government with all the secret services at there fingertips wouldn’t be publicly publishing the figures on Coronavirus in China if they didn’t think they were genuine, just a thought.

This government relies far too heavily on China for investment (as the tories don't believe in public spending other than their own fat expenses) so they're not in a good position to argue otherwise with the Chinese. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...