Matt Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, RPG said: Be careful what you wish for. As soon as UK corporations realise that work can be carried out on line from home, it will be. But not from UK homes. It will be done from second and third world countries (just like the call centres) wherever possible so as to reduce costs. Outsourcing has been on the rise for years, decades even, and businesses have been balancing that out between abroad (e.g. banks outsourcing call centers to India, then bringing them back) and keeping things in the local economy. This won’t change things for the worse, it will make things better, although the roles might change which will make things better for some whilst others might suffer. Automation is another good example of moving jobs from one job type to creating others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, RPG said: Be careful what you wish for. As soon as UK corporations realise that work can be carried out on line from home, it will be. But not from UK homes. It will be done from second and third world countries (just like the call centres) wherever possible so as to reduce costs. Quite possibly, but the problem with that would be would businesses have a client base if no one was working so had no use of there services. But I do get where you’re coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 14 minutes ago, Matt said: Automation is another good example of moving jobs from one job type to creating others. What type of jobs do you think automation created for the people it put out of work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chach said: What type of jobs do you think automation created for the people it put out of work? I didn’t say it created for those it put out of work. I said it creates new jobs for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, Matt said: I didn’t say it created for those it put out of work. I said it creates new jobs for others. Can you elaborate on this then "This won’t change things for the worse, it will make things better" So far I've only seen this lead to some fairly bad political outcomes and worse working conditions, which is going to get a whole lot worse when artificial intelligence is added to the equation and neither labour nor brain is required. Not saying we should stop progress, just think we should have our eyes open to the realities of creating a new underclass with no place for them in the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, Chach said: Can you elaborate on this then "This won’t change things for the worse, it will make things better" So far I've only seen this lead to some fairly bad political outcomes and worse working conditions, which is going to get a whole lot worse when artificial intelligence is added to the equation and neither labour nor brain is required. Not saying we should stop progress, just think we should have our eyes open to the realities of creating a new underclass with no place for them in the economy. I meant more mechanical automation, AI isn’t something I know a lot about or pretend to understand. But the principle is the same; expertise won’t necessarily be with the people doing the current work, but it will create more possibilities than it takes away. It’s been true of most technological advances over the long term. I guess I over-generalized a bit, but back to remote working; from my experience and knowledge it is a positive thing. It all depends on how the local governments develop the growth. Considering the UK has gone for a “me first” approach, I don’t see them letting companies outsource as much out of the country and will encourage companies to keep the jobs in-house (so to speak). Business will save massively on things like rent, taxes, some benefits (I know companies who help with public transport for example), travel expenses... there’s more money to be made and saved than making very expensive and potentially risky outsourcing transitions It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if the government didnt do any of this to encourage businesses to do this though. Sorry for rambling, got a 5 year old climbing all over me asking to play... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 14 minutes ago, Matt said: I meant more mechanical automation, AI isn’t something I know a lot about or pretend to understand. But the principle is the same; expertise won’t necessarily be with the people doing the current work, but it will create more possibilities than it takes away. It’s been true of most technological advances over the long term. I guess I over-generalized a bit, but back to remote working; from my experience and knowledge it is a positive thing. It all depends on how the local governments develop the growth. Considering the UK has gone for a “me first” approach, I don’t see them letting companies outsource as much out of the country and will encourage companies to keep the jobs in-house (so to speak). Business will save massively on things like rent, taxes, some benefits (I know companies who help with public transport for example), travel expenses... there’s more money to be made and saved than making very expensive and potentially risky outsourcing transitions It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if the government didnt do any of this to encourage businesses to do this though. Sorry for rambling, got a 5 year old climbing all over me asking to play... Yeah I don't think experts are as unanimously bullish about the AI technology boom creating jobs like previous technology booms, drivers of cars and trucks are going to be the first jobs to go which is the job pretty much anyone can currently get, obviously there will be a lot of new jobs for people who know how to code but they're not going to be the people who lose the driver jobs and we already have serious problems inequality now. Regards to WFH I personally don't like it so pretty biased, I like the interaction and camaraderie with workmates and I only live 3km from the office so spend no time commuting/in traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chach said: Yeah I don't think experts are as unanimously bullish about the AI technology boom creating jobs like previous technology booms, drivers of cars and trucks are going to be the first jobs to go which is the job pretty much anyone can currently get, obviously there will be a lot of new jobs for people who know how to code but they're not going to be the people who lose the driver jobs and we already have serious problems inequality now. Regards to WFH I personally don't like it so pretty biased, I like the interaction and camaraderie with workmates and I only live 3km from the office so spend no time commuting/in traffic. I have experienced both sides. My last job enforced no WFH which created nothing but stress for me, but I loved that job largely because of the people, so i completely understand that part. Commute aside which was a bitch. The job before that allowed for 2 days at home per week and was a 5min drive, but the company/department was so poorly managed that regardless of whether I was in the office or not, I ended up hating the job (although the team were great). There’s many examples of specific scenarios, but overall WFH is way more beneficial for a company from my experience Chach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 Passed the 30k global deaths apparently, 670k reported cases, gods know how many actual cases there are. Could be millions. I don’t see our lockdown ending at the end of April even though Switzerland has reacted well. Can’t see this not being top of the news for the next 4 months to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, RPG said: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52082781 It will likely last longer in part due to not acting on the seriousness of it when the first case was confirmed here 58 days ago, and we could see the devastation it was having on China and Italy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 45 minutes ago, RPG said: I would hope that a 'middle course' could be found. Instead of outsourcing people, outsource the office. Move certain 'sub' offices out of high density population areas and closer to existing commuter belts. Then, continue with a 5 day working office week but with the option of 2/5 days done from home - or something like that. It preserves the social interaction (which is very important) allows for some working from home (also good) and reduces traffic and pollution while keeping the jobs in UK. If done efficiently, it could even reduce the physical size of offices needed as employees could pair up and share the same office space, one working from home while the other is in the office and vice versa. I also see a future where job sharing will become the norm to create more employment in a shrinking market place, where people will do a 3 days a week, prices globally will drop for the everyday needs to live a sustainable life in line with the new average wage. This virus if prolonged could be the kick start for leading us down this route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/mar/25/schools-asked-donate-science-goggles-nhs-use-face-shields?fbclid=IwAR0cz6N5BeWIoTds6p6sUkMq3Z7qqNfq_Ly0hqQa0e3ynuZYgw-p5y4QUrQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 Bon Jovi doing his bit. https://m.facebook.com/livlane/photos/a.576772642352885/3342027352494053/?type=3 MikeO, Romey 1878 and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/no-lockdown-here-belaruss-strongman-rejects-coronavirus-risks-he-suggests-saunas-and-vodka/2020/03/27/7aab812c-7025-11ea-a156-0048b62cdb51_story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 I hear the first NHS workers have died of Coronavirus. It can’t have helped that they’ve not had adequate protective equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 11 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: I hear the first NHS workers have died of Coronavirus. It can’t have helped that they’ve not had adequate protective equipment. Complete and utter disregard for human life. They had months to prepare for this. They downgraded the required levels of PPE because they never had correct supplies. Surgical masks??? They needed to be FFP3 masks with filters. Disgusting. Romey 1878, Matt, pete0 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 17 minutes ago, Hafnia said: Complete and utter disregard for human life. They had months to prepare for this. They downgraded the required levels of PPE because they never had correct supplies. Surgical masks??? They needed to be FFP3 masks with filters. Disgusting. A government minister today said live on TV it would be wrong to expect our nurses and doctors on the front line to work without the proper PPE, that’s correct and I completely agree, now tell us why you have and still continue to let them care for patients without the proper PPE. I can’t find the words to describe how much admiration I have for these people, who care so much about others that they put themselves in so much danger knowing that they aren’t adequately protected. They are mothers fathers sisters brothers wife’s and husbands like all of us they want to return home safely to their families, yet this government are playing god with their lives. Hafnia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 48 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: I hear the first NHS workers have died of Coronavirus. It can’t have helped that they’ve not had adequate protective equipment. In any other industry if you sent or gave someone a job to do and you didn’t supply them with PPE and they died, you would more than likely be facing a corporate man slaughter charge and rightly so. holystove, pete0, Matt and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MikeO Posted March 29, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Palfy said: A government minister today said live on TV it would be wrong to expect our nurses and doctors on the front line to work without the proper PPE, that’s correct and I completely agree, now tell us why you have and still continue to let them care for patients without the proper PPE. I can’t find the words to describe how much admiration I have for these people, who care so much about others that they put themselves in so much danger knowing that they aren’t adequately protected. They are mothers fathers sisters brothers wife’s and husbands like all of us they want to return home safely to their families, yet this government are playing god with their lives. Not to mention the 750,000 who have volunteered to help out; shouldn't be needed really but they deserve recognition as well. Matt, Gwlad, Hafnia and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 46 minutes ago, Hafnia said: Complete and utter disregard for human life. They had months to prepare for this. They downgraded the required levels of PPE because they never had correct supplies. Surgical masks??? They needed to be FFP3 masks with filters. Disgusting. Haven’t you heard? This government are doing an outstanding job during the crisis and are leading us admirably. pete0, Hafnia and Palfy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, MikeO said: Not to mention the 750,000 who have volunteered to help out; shouldn't be needed really but they deserve recognition as well. 100% mate I have applied to help but not heard anything yet. I know you’re not in a position to do so Mike with your wife’s and your health, but I feel I know you well enough to know that if circumstances were different you would be one of the first to put they’re names down. Stay safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: Haven’t you heard? This government are doing an outstanding job during the crisis and are leading us admirably. Yes and I’m sick of hearing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 48 minutes ago, Palfy said: 100% mate I have applied to help but not heard anything yet. I know you’re not in a position to do so Mike with your wife’s and your health, but I feel I know you well enough to know that if circumstances were different you would be one of the first to put they’re names down. Stay safe. I would; Josh wanted to as well but we can't risk him bringing it home sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159747065304478&id=147602534477&anchor_composer=false Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cornish Steve Posted March 29, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 20 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: I hear the first NHS workers have died of Coronavirus. It can’t have helped that they’ve not had adequate protective equipment. [[edited version]] My oldest son is an ICU nurse at a major hospital in a large US metro area, and he's telling me all kinds of anecdotes. I'm very proud of him, though, because he's working at least 12 hours every day of the week right now (and so is his girlfriend). He's surprised at the number of younger people being admitted to ICU. It seems young adults are partying in their basements and spreading the virus, not realizing this virus is no respecter of persons. One lesson my son keeps repeating: This virus is not only a danger to older people; it's a danger to everyone. In the US, if you don't have a full-time job then you won't have medical insurance. One visit to a doctor, if it requires tests or, heaven forbid, a hospital bed, could bankrupt you if you have no insurance. This means that many continue working when they are sick, even knowingly sick, because they can't risk losing that job. If they don't have a job, then they can't afford to see a doctor. Every time my son calls he tells us to stay indoors. In practice, I walk the neighborhood two or three times a day and stay a good distance from others, but he even chides me for that. I suppose it's because he sees first-hand, almost every minute of his waking hours, patients who are fighting for their lives. One of these is the head of the hospital's respiratory department. Just three weeks ago, this guy asked my son whether he'd be willing to work on the virus task force, and today my son insists on working at the ICU every day in part in an effort to save this man's life. Yesterday, one of the patients, terrified, tried to rip off the tubing and ventilator to which he was attached. As my son struggled to stop him, the exhaust from the ventilator was being pumped onto his face. Multiply such incidents by the number of hospitals across our countries and you soon realize that medical personnel are special and rather selfless people. The point is: this is serious, whether you're young or old; hospitals are being overwhelmed; medical staff are real heroes; the US healthcare system will be proved to be in desperate need of change. I'm also proud of my older daughter. She's what they call here a physician assistant, which is who you get to see when you visit a walk-in medical clinic. She's seeing patients when they first demonstrate symptoms, and she too is working much longer hours right now in another, more rural, part of the country. The infection rate is picking up there as well. Palfy, Romey 1878, Matt and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 "Yesterday, one of the patients, terrified, tried to rip off the tubing and ventilator to which he was attached." I apparently did that myself back in 1994 when I was in an intensive care unit with pneumonia, though I have no memory of it, I was in another world in my brain. I do remember very clearly the following weeks when the slightest thing exhausted me, getting out of the bath for example took around ten minutes of serious effort to achieve. The memory of that is still so vivid and I think that's why I'm a bit scared now, particularly since the radiotherapy damage done to my throat sometimes leaves me breathless even when otherwise healthy. Should be OK as we're in a rural location which obviously carries less risk than those in cities (so far). Much respect to your offspring though Steve, you have every right to be very proud. Matt and Cornish Steve 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 Steve - Every single person working in the medical profession (home and abroad) and are helping to deal with this have my thanks, pride, admiration for everything they’re doing. From the smallest cog to the biggest cog. They are heroes and are the only ones that deserve those platitudes during all this. I can only speak about the politicians here but I refuse to thank any of ours, the good work of the NHS workers is in spite of the obstacles put in their way by those politicians. So when I see Conservative politicians joining in in that applause for those heroes, it boils my blood. Not long ago they cheered when they voted down increasing their pay. They can fuck off, because it’s those politicians that will be directly responsible for many more deaths than was necessary. I don’t know how they sleep at night and I don’t know how anyone is giving them an ounce of praise. Matt, pete0, Johnsy and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52087002 Matt and pete0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 Regarding masks, it can be even worse than that. In the US, nurses are asked, when they take them off, to place them in an ordinary paper bag, so this happens many times throughout the day - potentially helping to transfer the virus from the outside to the inside of the mask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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