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Palfy

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4 minutes ago, RPG said:

Be careful what you wish for.

As soon as UK corporations realise that work can be carried out on line from home, it will be. But not from UK homes. It will be done from second and third world countries (just like the call centres) wherever possible so as to reduce costs.

Outsourcing has been on the rise for years, decades even, and businesses have been balancing that out between abroad (e.g. banks outsourcing call centers to India, then bringing them back) and keeping things in the local economy. This won’t change things for the worse, it will make things better, although the roles might change which will make things better for some whilst others might suffer. Automation is another good example of moving jobs from one job type to creating others. 

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8 minutes ago, RPG said:

Be careful what you wish for.

As soon as UK corporations realise that work can be carried out on line from home, it will be. But not from UK homes. It will be done from second and third world countries (just like the call centres) wherever possible so as to reduce costs.

Quite possibly, but the problem with that would be would businesses have a client base if no one was working so had no use of there services. 
But I do get where you’re coming from. 

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4 minutes ago, Matt said:

I didn’t say it created for those it put out of work. I said it creates new jobs for others. 

Can you elaborate on this then "This won’t change things for the worse, it will make things better"

So far I've only seen this lead to some fairly bad political outcomes and worse working conditions, which is going to get a whole lot worse when artificial intelligence is added to the equation and neither labour nor brain is required.

Not saying we should stop progress, just think we should have our eyes open to the realities of creating a new underclass with no place for them in the economy.

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12 minutes ago, Chach said:

Can you elaborate on this then "This won’t change things for the worse, it will make things better"

So far I've only seen this lead to some fairly bad political outcomes and worse working conditions, which is going to get a whole lot worse when artificial intelligence is added to the equation and neither labour nor brain is required.

Not saying we should stop progress, just think we should have our eyes open to the realities of creating a new underclass with no place for them in the economy.

I meant more mechanical automation, AI isn’t something I know a lot about or pretend to understand. But the principle is the same; expertise won’t necessarily be with the people doing the current work, but it will create more possibilities than it takes away. It’s been true of most technological advances over the long term.

I guess I over-generalized a bit, but back to remote working; from my experience and knowledge it is a positive thing. It all depends on how the local governments develop the growth. Considering the UK has gone for a “me first” approach, I don’t see them letting companies outsource as much out of the country and will encourage companies to keep the jobs in-house (so to speak). Business will save massively on things like rent, taxes, some benefits (I know companies who help with public transport for example), travel expenses... there’s more money to be made and saved than making very expensive and potentially risky outsourcing transitions 

It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if the government didnt do any of this to encourage businesses to do this though. 

Sorry for rambling, got a 5 year old climbing all over me asking to play...

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14 minutes ago, Matt said:

I meant more mechanical automation, AI isn’t something I know a lot about or pretend to understand. But the principle is the same; expertise won’t necessarily be with the people doing the current work, but it will create more possibilities than it takes away. It’s been true of most technological advances over the long term.

I guess I over-generalized a bit, but back to remote working; from my experience and knowledge it is a positive thing. It all depends on how the local governments develop the growth. Considering the UK has gone for a “me first” approach, I don’t see them letting companies outsource as much out of the country and will encourage companies to keep the jobs in-house (so to speak). Business will save massively on things like rent, taxes, some benefits (I know companies who help with public transport for example), travel expenses... there’s more money to be made and saved than making very expensive and potentially risky outsourcing transitions 

It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if the government didnt do any of this to encourage businesses to do this though. 

Sorry for rambling, got a 5 year old climbing all over me asking to play...

Yeah I don't think experts are as unanimously bullish about the AI technology boom creating jobs like previous technology booms, drivers of cars and trucks are going to be the first jobs to go which is the job pretty much anyone can currently get, obviously there will be a lot of new jobs for people who know how to code but they're not going to be the people who lose the driver jobs and we already have serious problems inequality now.

Regards to WFH I personally don't like it so pretty biased, I like the interaction and camaraderie with workmates and I only live 3km from the office so spend no time commuting/in traffic.

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4 minutes ago, Chach said:

Yeah I don't think experts are as unanimously bullish about the AI technology boom creating jobs like previous technology booms, drivers of cars and trucks are going to be the first jobs to go which is the job pretty much anyone can currently get, obviously there will be a lot of new jobs for people who know how to code but they're not going to be the people who lose the driver jobs and we already have serious problems inequality now.

Regards to WFH I personally don't like it so pretty biased, I like the interaction and camaraderie with workmates and I only live 3km from the office so spend no time commuting/in traffic.

I have experienced both sides. My last job enforced no WFH which created nothing but stress for me, but I loved that job largely because of the people, so i completely understand that part. Commute aside which was a bitch. 

The job before that allowed for 2 days at home per week and was a 5min drive, but the company/department was so poorly managed that regardless of whether I was in the office or not, I ended up hating the job (although the team were great). 

There’s many examples of specific scenarios, but overall WFH is way more beneficial for a company from my experience 

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Passed the 30k global deaths apparently, 670k reported cases, gods know how many actual cases there are. Could be millions. I don’t see our lockdown ending at the end of April even though Switzerland has reacted well. Can’t see this not being top of the news for the next 4 months to be honest. 

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45 minutes ago, RPG said:

I would hope that a 'middle course' could be found. Instead of outsourcing people, outsource the office.  Move certain 'sub' offices out of high density population areas and closer to existing commuter belts. Then, continue with a 5 day working office week but with the option of 2/5 days done from home - or something like that. It preserves the social interaction (which is very important) allows for some working from home (also good) and reduces traffic and pollution while keeping the jobs in UK. If done efficiently, it could even reduce the physical size of offices needed as employees could pair up and share the same office space, one working from home while the other is in the office and vice versa.

I also see a future where job sharing will become the norm to create more employment in a shrinking market place, where people will do a 3 days a week, prices globally will drop for the everyday needs to live a sustainable life in line with the new average wage. 
This virus if prolonged could be the kick start for leading us down this route. 

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11 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I hear the first NHS workers have died of Coronavirus. It can’t have helped that they’ve not had adequate protective equipment. 

Complete and utter disregard for human life.  They had months to prepare for this.  They downgraded the required levels of PPE because they never had correct supplies.  

Surgical masks??? They needed to be FFP3 masks with filters.

Disgusting.

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17 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Complete and utter disregard for human life.  They had months to prepare for this.  They downgraded the required levels of PPE because they never had correct supplies.  

Surgical masks??? They needed to be FFP3 masks with filters.

Disgusting.

A government minister today said live on TV it would be wrong to expect our nurses and doctors on the front line to work without the proper PPE, that’s correct and I completely agree, now tell us why you have and still continue to let them care for patients without the proper PPE. 
I can’t find the words to describe how much admiration I have for these people, who care so much about others that they put themselves in so much danger knowing that they aren’t adequately protected. 
They are mothers fathers sisters brothers wife’s and husbands like all of us they want to return home safely to their families, yet this government are playing god with their lives. 

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48 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I hear the first NHS workers have died of Coronavirus. It can’t have helped that they’ve not had adequate protective equipment. 

In any other industry if you sent or gave someone a job to do and you didn’t supply them with PPE and they died, you would more than likely be facing a corporate man slaughter charge and rightly so. 

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46 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Complete and utter disregard for human life.  They had months to prepare for this.  They downgraded the required levels of PPE because they never had correct supplies.  

Surgical masks??? They needed to be FFP3 masks with filters.

Disgusting.

Haven’t you heard? This government are doing an outstanding job during the crisis and are leading us admirably. 

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4 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Not to mention the 750,000 who have volunteered to help out; shouldn't be needed really but they deserve recognition as well.

100% mate I have applied to help but not heard anything yet.

I know you’re not in a position to do so Mike with your wife’s and your health, but I feel I know you well enough to know that if circumstances were different you would be one of the first to put they’re names down.

Stay safe. 

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48 minutes ago, Palfy said:

100% mate I have applied to help but not heard anything yet.

I know you’re not in a position to do so Mike with your wife’s and your health, but I feel I know you well enough to know that if circumstances were different you would be one of the first to put they’re names down.

Stay safe. 

I would; Josh wanted to as well but we can't risk him bringing it home sadly.

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"Yesterday, one of the patients, terrified, tried to rip off the tubing and ventilator to which he was attached."

I apparently did that myself back in 1994 when I was in an intensive care unit with pneumonia, though I have no memory of it, I was in another world in my brain. I do remember very clearly the following weeks when the slightest thing exhausted me, getting out of the bath for example took around ten minutes of serious effort to achieve. The memory of that is still so vivid and I think that's why I'm a bit scared now, particularly since the radiotherapy damage done to my throat sometimes leaves me breathless even when otherwise healthy. Should be OK as we're in a rural location which obviously carries less risk than those in cities (so far).

Much respect to your offspring though Steve, you have every right to be very proud.

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Steve - Every single person working in the medical profession (home and abroad) and are helping to deal with this have my thanks, pride, admiration for everything they’re doing. From the smallest cog to the biggest cog. They are heroes and are the only ones that deserve those platitudes during all this. I can only speak about the politicians here but I refuse to thank any of ours, the good work of the NHS workers is in spite of the obstacles put in their way by those politicians. So when I see Conservative politicians joining in in that applause for those heroes, it boils my blood. Not long ago they cheered when they voted down increasing their pay. They can fuck off, because it’s those politicians that will be directly responsible for many more deaths than was necessary. I don’t know how they sleep at night and I don’t know how anyone is giving them an ounce of praise. 

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