What are our Realistic Expectations for 2020/21?

[FairWooney]

we always get this argument over top 4 v winning a trophy.

while top 4 is a great prestige thing and getting into the Champions League is huge ultimately there is no trophy for it.

Arsenal consistently made top 4 under Wenger without ever getting back to winning the league.  While it would be great to be in that position I'm sure every Evertonian would love to see us actually win something, after all that's what it's all about really.

we haven't won a trophy in 25 years and if the next trophy we won was the league cup I really wouldn't mind so long as we win something.

 

On the flip side I do believe that some rotation is required in the cup competitions.  Not by changing as many players as possible as some teams do but by ensuring that players you want to give some game time to get it and those that could benefit rest are able to get it also.  Those that can make a a key difference if required should be available on the bench.

I'd happily see DCL, Richarlison and James benched tonight but they should be available if required to help us progress.

 

[Bailey]

12 hours ago, Btay said:

No CB would want to play against him. Physically so strong yet rapid in behind as well. Needs to get a bit better with the ball at his feet but his improvement has been great! 20 goals is possible for him. Richarlison should have a few this year as well, good signs.

It would be an absolute nightmare. The only thing I would say is that I think you would happy with him outside the box. Yes he has pace and strength to make runs and hold off a defender but he someone that would punish you time and time again and most of the time those type of runs can only be successfully made down the channels which means that you have a touchline to help you defend. Plus he is more of a bumbling dribbler than a skillful one so he will give you a chance to win the ball. It would be nigh on impossible to defend against him in the air with a run up, just like he showed against Spurs. Play every ball up to him like that and he will win most of them.

Richarlison on the other hand can do anything. He can beat you with pace, strength, on the ball and off the ball.

[StevO]

16 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

The FA Cup I could understand, because it carries prestige. The League Cup, though, is a waste of time and effort. Are our sights really so low that the League Cup is what we aspire to? We should follow the Leicester approach, not the Swansea approach.

I wish we had won enough trophies to act so snobbish about the league cup. 
I’d rather we followed neither the Leicester or Swansea approach. I’d follow the City approach, and they just seem to keep picking this trophy up. 

[Cornish Steve]

2 hours ago, FairWooney said:

while top 4 is a great prestige thing and getting into the Champions League is huge ultimately there is no trophy for it.

 

Prize money for winning the League Cup? Less than one week's wage for Bernard (a bench-warmer).

Financial benefit from finishing 4th instead of 11th? Close to what we paid for Rodriguez.

[FairWooney]

Yes the financial return is great.

But I don't watch and follow Everton in the hope that we'll make loads of money, I watch with a hope that I'll see us win trophies.

Yes the financial return of top 4 and a run in the champions league is lucrative and will ultimately benefit you long term but I wouldn't sniff at winning the FA or League cup.

Also I believe that having the winning mentality breeds more success, going into every game with a good intent to win.  City may change plenty of players but they also put out a strong team including many players from the previous/following games league fixtures.  Because they want to win every game

Really we shouldn't need to argue this, with the squad we have we should be able to compete on all fronts with a little rotation and surely no one expressly wishes us to lose games.

[Cornish Steve]

Of course I have no problem with winning. If we win the League Cup, I'll be delighted. My point is that there's no way it must be allowed to undermine the primary goal: sustained winning over many years, something that requires focus, strong finances, and no distractions.

We simply have to accept that, right now, we can't have it all, so we must be sure to focus where it really matters. I reiterate: if we could finish 5th in the 2013-2014 season, we can certainly finish 4th or higher this year. Why wouldn't we?

[Sibdane]

I'll keep it simple: we need a trophy. We haven't won one since I've been following, and I want one. We need one. 

[Matt]

2 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Prize money for winning the League Cup? Less than one week's wage for Bernard (a bench-warmer).

Financial benefit from finishing 4th instead of 11th? Close to what we paid for Rodriguez.

Prize money? We would have a trophy that attracts better players, especially with European football. Which should help us improve, and finish higher up the following season.

im shocked by your shortsightedness regarding this competition 

[Cornish Steve]

We appear to be playing our B-team and winning, so maybe we're all happy.

[StevO]

7 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Prize money for winning the League Cup? Less than one week's wage for Bernard (a bench-warmer).

Financial benefit from finishing 4th instead of 11th? Close to what we paid for Rodriguez.

I remember when my Dad first took me to Goodison Park. We sat in the lower bullens against Leeds United, I was so excited. I didn’t stay focused for more of the game, I remember reading all the advertisements around the ground but I was only little and got bored. The one thing I do remember from the day was walking through the cemetery, just as you come over the hill and the stands rise out of the ground with all that blue framework, my Dad says to me “I hope we make a good profit this year lad”.

[markjazzbassist]

Had me there ste until the end

[StevO]

1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said:

Had me there ste until the end

Its all true apart from that bit. 

[RuffRob]

15 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Of course I have no problem with winning. If we win the League Cup, I'll be delighted. My point is that there's no way it must be allowed to undermine the primary goal: sustained winning over many years, something that requires focus, strong finances, and no distractions.

We simply have to accept that, right now, we can't have it all, so we must be sure to focus where it really matters. I reiterate: if we could finish 5th in the 2013-2014 season, we can certainly finish 4th or higher this year. Why wouldn't we?

You make it sound as if it the league OR league cup and we simply can't try and do well in both. We are a big enough club with a big enough squad to be competative in both and then the FA cup in the New Year. Cup runs are more likley to have a positive affect on league form. 

I don't thing winning round after round and progressing in any domestic cup competition harms league form, winning breads winning. Rounds of league cup, don't lead to fixture list congestion. Especially for clubs who don't have any european football. If anything its good to have games that allow fring player to get out for 90min. 

I can understand your arguremnet if we had European football, and european and league games taking a greater priority over the league cup, but we don't have that.

I really dont think winning the league cup would mean we are more likley to finishes aroind 11th in the league- thats just doom mungering. I actually think it would more like have the opposite effect and give the team a massive 'winning mentality' boost around march time, europa spot in the bag, pressure off a little, lets go for CL qualification type of attitude.

I dont buy the injury arguement. Can't wrap players in cotton wool, you just have to roll with the punches on this front in competative football. You can get injured in training. 

[Wiggytop]

 

I dont buy the injury arguement. Can't wrap players in cotton wool, you just have to roll with the punches on this front in competative football. You can get injured in training. 

I agree with your sentiment, my side is theres no need to play everyone every game and protect the squad, it seems that lower division players can be clumsier and throw in bad tackles resulting in injury, Salford seemed to be targeting Gordon last night, without and success thankfully.

[Cornish Steve]

7 hours ago, RuffRob said:

 

I can understand your arguremnet if we had European football, and european and league games taking a greater priority over the league cup, but we don't have that.

I really dont think winning the league cup would mean we are more likley to finishes aroind 11th in the league- thats just doom mungering. I actually think it would more like have the opposite effect and give the team a massive 'winning mentality' boost around march time, europa spot in the bag, pressure off a little, lets go for CL qualification type of attitude.

 

Just think: If we win the League Cup, we could be the ones next year playing Lincoln Red Imps in Gibraltar! 

[RuffRob]

33 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Just think: If we win the League Cup, we could be the ones next year playing Lincoln Red Imps in Gibraltar! 

so best not winning it then, just in case!!!. That's a pretty negative outlook.

Just think: if we win the league cup, it will mean we had a brilliant day out at a cup final, people will stop say we haven't won a trophy in 25 years, squad will get a massive boost and confident from winning a cup,  we get to play European football next year, might help attract better signings, might get some great uplifting European nights at Goodison Park. 

I am old enough to remember us getting a decent run and getting to the League Cup final back in 1984, that didn't do us to much harm then!!! 

 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, RuffRob said:

so best not winning it then, just in case!!!. That's a pretty negative outlook.

Just think: if we win the league cup, it will mean we had a brilliant day out at a cup final, people will stop say we haven't won a trophy in 25 years, squad will get a massive boost and confident from winning a cup,  we get to play European football next year, might help attract better signings, might get some great uplifting European nights at Goodison Park. 

I am old enough to remember us getting a decent run and getting to the League Cup final back in 1984, that didn't do us to much harm then!!! 

 

The first league cup final I clearly remember is Swindon Town beating Arsenal. 

[StevO]

Imagine not wanting Everton to win a trophy? Nope. Can’t do it. 

[Cornish Steve]

25 minutes ago, Palfy said:

The first league cup final I clearly remember is Swindon Town beating Arsenal. 

I can remember two final replays before Everton eventually lost to Villa. Amazing to think we used to have replays if the final finished with a tie.

[Palfy]

20 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

I can remember two final replays before Everton eventually lost to Villa. Amazing to think we used to have replays if the final finished with a tie.

After extra time, in someways I still believe that’s a fairer outcome than penalties, which can become a lottery but also exciting for the partisan supporters granted. 

[Formby]

42 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

I can remember two final replays before Everton eventually lost to Villa. Amazing to think we used to have replays if the final finished with a tie.

I wish I could forget it - Terry Darracott, why on Earth did you leave it? Summed up the heartbreak of being a fan in the seventies. 

[Formby]

I think we can get top 6, as many have said (and ought to, really). Cups are a lottery, but would be lovely. I think we can win a derby, too - preferably an away one. Certainly very optimistic this season. 

[Cornish Steve]

2 hours ago, Formby said:

I think we can get top 6, as many have said (and ought to, really). Cups are a lottery, but would be lovely. I think we can win a derby, too - preferably an away one. Certainly very optimistic this season. 

I really do believe we can finish in the top four. Why not? Fifth with Martinez, so why not fourth with Ancelotti?

[Romey 1878]

3 hours ago, Formby said:

I think we can get top 6, as many have said (and ought to, really). Cups are a lottery, but would be lovely. I think we can win a derby, too - preferably an away one. Certainly very optimistic this season. 

We’re going to do the double over them. 

[Palfy]

This thread will be getting changed from realistic to unrealistic soon, the double over Liverpool, finishing 4th, how about Champions League winners 21/22. 
Oh and on a personal note I have a three some with Elisha Dixon and Amanda Holden on Palfy’s got talent

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

This thread will be getting changed from realistic to unrealistic soon, the double over Liverpool, finishing 4th, how about Champions League winners 21/22. 
Oh and on a personal note I have a three some with Elisha Dixon and Amanda Holden on Palfy’s got talent

You have talent?

[FairWooney]

The plus to being in the league cup right now is it's giving game time to squad players.  We have 3 league cup games this month if we win against Fleetwood, it's like a more competitive and lucrative reserves match!

It helps that we've been given a very good draw in all 3 rounds.  The third round is more difficult but at home and very winnable.  I'd still go with a similar team for that game but maybe bring in Allan but for Davis in that game to strengthen the midfield.

[Palfy]

4 hours ago, London Blue said:

You have talent?

[Cornish Steve]

8 hours ago, Palfy said:

This thread will be getting changed from realistic to unrealistic soon, the double over Liverpool, finishing 4th, how about Champions League winners 21/22. 
Oh and on a personal note I have a three some with Elisha Dixon and Amanda Holden on Palfy’s got talent

"Whether you believe you can or you can't, you're right."

[RuffRob]

I think having signed Bale, spurs are going to be lot better that they where against us on the opening day of the season. Going to be a tough old battle at the business end of the table.