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2 hours ago, Palfy said:

I thought he acquitted himself very well for his first introduction to the team, in what was not his normal position against an on point Liverpool team, and up against Mane, not a to difficult first game was it. 

Fuck me apologies I was silly enough to think this was the Godfrey thread, not the Mina!!! Wankers?😂

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Just back to Godfrey for a moment - an underrated moment from yesterday was watching Henderson's head bounce off him and Godfrey barely even noticed he'd been touched and looked confused as to why Hen

Jordan Pickford was a goalkeeper before he came here!

Jesus! Even you must see the irony (hypocrisy) in that Haf?! 😂

17 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Just back to Godfrey for a moment - an underrated moment from yesterday was watching Henderson's head bounce off him and Godfrey barely even noticed he'd been touched and looked confused as to why Henderson was horizontal :lol: .

Yeah I clocked that, which prompted me to say what a good strong athlete he looks.  Henderson is a solid lad so it indicates a good attribute

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On 17/10/2020 at 19:27, Finn balor said:

Don’t see it as Mina being flashy he was running the other way and the ball came across and he tried to get something on it. It just fell to salah who buried it. Godfrey was good today. Couple of good blocks. Good on the ball. Didn’t look out of place at all 

You see this quite a lot to be honest. If it comes off, everyone raves about how skillful he is. If it doesn't, it well ends up like this. I have seen plenty of very good players do the same thing, in fact I am pretty sure VVD did it a couple of weeks ago! 

On 17/10/2020 at 19:23, c1982 said:

That back healed lazy/flashy ‘clearance’ he did today seems like a bad habit - not the first time he’s done it today. It needs coaching out of him as I remember moaning about it in the past!!! I think he’s a good player and clearly a positive character in the dressing room but he does worry me in a John Stones (who I really like as a player still) type way!

I don't think it is being flashy or lazy but more about wanting to get something on the ball with his dominant foot. A left footer hooks that ball away a lot easier and I still think that is what he should have done but at the same time I could also see him skew it into the top corner!

On 17/10/2020 at 23:00, London Blue said:

Just seen it again on MOTD, and there was nothing else he could do, just unlucky it went to Salah. I thought he played well apart from that.

I thought he played alright and despite my comments above, the important thing that he needed to do was get the ball to safety and in the end it went straight to the one man you don't want it to go to inside the box. Ironically he would have probably been better served by not touching it at all! 

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3 minutes ago, Matt said:

Is and never will be a RB, he looked completely lost today. I’d give him a game in the centre, drop Mina and put Holgate at RB until Seamus is back. But never again at RB. 

he wasn't a RB today, he was RCB in a  back 3.  he was shaky but so were keane and mina.  we need a solid vet (thiago silva would have been great) to be steady and learn from.

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Just now, Matt said:

Did he? I only ever saw him in the RB position. But to be more clear, he should be the RCB in a 4

Yeh he was definitely RCB in a 5 with Iwobi as the RWB. 

Personally I think he will make the same naive mistakes in a traditional CB position. 

He is just rough around the edges and needs time to learn and develop. It feels to me that his physical and technical ability has got him to this level and he just needs to learn how to defend a bit better. I'm sure it will come. 

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21 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Yeh he was definitely RCB in a 5 with Iwobi as the RWB. 

Personally I think he will make the same naive mistakes in a traditional CB position. 

He is just rough around the edges and needs time to learn and develop. It feels to me that his physical and technical ability has got him to this level and he just needs to learn how to defend a bit better. I'm sure it will come. 

I know he was on paper but he rarely seemed central in any way to me. Agree with the rest though. 

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9 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Three at the back just is not a good formation for us. I wish it would go away.

Possibly not but there are good reasons why he has implemented it, our 2 CD don’t play as a tight unit against Utd the space between Keane and Holgate was embarrassing, so by playing 3 CD he’s looking to close the space in the middle of our penalty area which is killing us. 

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14 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Three at the back just is not a good formation for us. I wish it would go away.

I like 3 at the back but it requires the right kind of personal. I don’t think we had it. Maybe when we had Jags, Distin and Heigtinga but right now our CB’s don’t deal with danger efficiently enough.

 

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On 23/11/2020 at 09:12, Romey 1878 said:

Three at the back just is not a good formation for us. I wish it would go away.

I just can't get my head around why any team would want to play three centre backs. There are some sides that play the system a little differently such as Sheffield Utd with their overlapping centre backs and Arsenal where Tierney still attacks like a full bank despite playing at centre half.

It just doesn't make any sense to me to play with 3 actual centre backs playing as actual centre backs.

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21 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I just can't get my head around why any team would want to play three centre backs. There are some sides that play the system a little differently such as Sheffield Utd with their overlapping centre backs and Arsenal where Tierney still attacks like a full bank despite playing at centre half.

It just doesn't make any sense to me to play with 3 actual centre backs playing as actual centre backs.

I think it’s fairly obvious why he did it although it might not have gotten the desired effect defensively we were much better as an attacking force, but more importantly for me it shows just how poor we are in the CD department we need an upgrade in players in that area desperately. 

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2 hours ago, Bailey said:

I just can't get my head around why any team would want to play three centre backs. There are some sides that play the system a little differently such as Sheffield Utd with their overlapping centre backs and Arsenal where Tierney still attacks like a full bank despite playing at centre half.

It just doesn't make any sense to me to play with 3 actual centre backs playing as actual centre backs.

Not sure why, but I burst out laughing at this! Very Catch-22 type sentence.

Bailey: It just doesn't make any sense to me to play with 3 actual centre backs playing as actual centre backs.

Carlo: You'd rather we play full backs as centre backs?

Bailey: Haven't we tried that?

Carlo: Or centre backs as full backs?

Bailey: Er...no.

Carlo: Then we're playing centre backs as centre backs, right?

Bailey: Okay, but why three of them?

Carlo: Because it's the system. And they're also not very good. Got it?

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2 hours ago, London Blue said:

If we had used Holgate,  Kean and Godfrey it would have worked better  as Holgate is more aggressive in snuffing out danger.

Holgate and Godfrey as the wider 2, their pace allows them to cover the wide area and up against full backs. I’d probably go Mina in centre at the moment but he and Keane are causing so many issues for us. Zouma would be perfect for this to work in my opinion.

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5 hours ago, Palfy said:

I think it’s fairly obvious why he did it although it might not have gotten the desired effect defensively we were much better as an attacking force, but more importantly for me it shows just how poor we are in the CD department we need an upgrade in players in that area desperately. 

Playing 5 at the back doesn't make the side defend any better in my opinion. 

3 hours ago, Formby said:

Not sure why, but I burst out laughing at this! Very Catch-22 type sentence.

Bailey: It just doesn't make any sense to me to play with 3 actual centre backs playing as actual centre backs.

Carlo: You'd rather we play full backs as centre backs?

Bailey: Haven't we tried that?

Carlo: Or centre backs as full backs?

Bailey: Er...no.

Carlo: Then we're playing centre backs as centre backs, right?

Bailey: Okay, but why three of them?

Carlo: Because it's the system. And they're also not very good. Got it?

🤣

Don't get me wrong, I don’t necessarily agree with the other sides doing it either but at least I can see the tactical merit in playing that way. It looks like 5 at the back but actually it isn't. Its only 5 at the back when you defend but not when you attack. 

If you attack with 3 centre backs playing as centre backs you just lose an attacking player and in my opinion you don't shore up the defence any better. The argument is that you get a wing back further up the pitch, but you can achieve the same feat with 4 at the back. 

It is just a tactic that has come into the game a lot more commonly since Conte came into the league and I have seen a lot more sides play it poorly that I have play it well. 

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1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Playing 5 at the back doesn't make the side defend any better in my opinion. 

🤣

Don't get me wrong, I don’t necessarily agree with the other sides doing it either but at least I can see the tactical merit in playing that way. It looks like 5 at the back but actually it isn't. Its only 5 at the back when you defend but not when you attack. 

If you attack with 3 centre backs playing as centre backs you just lose an attacking player and in my opinion you don't shore up the defence any better. The argument is that you get a wing back further up the pitch, but you can achieve the same feat with 4 at the back. 

It is just a tactic that has come into the game a lot more commonly since Conte came into the league and I have seen a lot more sides play it poorly that I have play it well. 

But 2 CD hasn’t been working for us if you hadn’t noticed we have one of the worst defensive records in the league this season, Carlo would dearly love to play that way but we haven’t got a half decent pairing between them, hence he has to try something different we can’t keep shipping goals and not try to do something about it. 

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7 minutes ago, Palfy said:

But 2 CD hasn’t been working for us if you hadn’t noticed we have one of the worst defensive records in the league this season, Carlo would dearly love to play that way but we haven’t got a half decent pairing between them, hence he has to try something different we can’t keep shipping goals and not try to do something about it. 

5th worst in the league goals against.  i didn't believe you, i looked it up.  you're right, defense is BAD

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I’m not that concerned long term about the CBs at the moment. They’ve gotten a completely new midfield in front of them, Holgate has been out for a while and will be getting up to speed, Coleman being out has had a big impact and James not really doing any defensive work doesn’t help either. Doucoure and Allan are excellent at closing down but there’s definite improvement for tracking runners from their side and communication from the CB. Just need the stupidity snuffing out 

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On 24/11/2020 at 21:30, Palfy said:

But 2 CD hasn’t been working for us if you hadn’t noticed we have one of the worst defensive records in the league this season, Carlo would dearly love to play that way but we haven’t got a half decent pairing between them, hence he has to try something different we can’t keep shipping goals and not try to do something about it. 

Those goals aren't down to the centre backs though. Yes they have their hands to play in the goals but most of the goals have started from mistakes from those in front of them. From what I have seen there is a lot of miscommunication between the midfield and defence. Neither the CB's nor the midfielders are sure whether they should be tracking, sitting in, pushing out or getting tight.

I think we are still in the bedding in phase. Lots of new players, new tactics and an unsettled side. It will either stick and we will settle down and start conceding less goals or it will eat away at the players and it will go the way it did for Martinez!

 

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On 26/11/2020 at 14:26, Bailey said:

Those goals aren't down to the centre backs though. Yes they have their hands to play in the goals but most of the goals have started from mistakes from those in front of them. From what I have seen there is a lot of miscommunication between the midfield and defence. Neither the CB's nor the midfielders are sure whether they should be tracking, sitting in, pushing out or getting tight.

I think we are still in the bedding in phase. Lots of new players, new tactics and an unsettled side. It will either stick and we will settle down and start conceding less goals or it will eat away at the players and it will go the way it did for Martinez!

 

Isn’t it so why did we go with 3 CBs, I think it was because the space and misunderstanding between our CBs when we only played 2 was exposing us and we were conceding easy goals in the centre of our area. 
Let’s be honest Ancelotti made that change in formation and he said it himself because of the space we were allowing between the CBS, they don’t work in tandem together half the time there’s no connection between them and neither has a clue what the others doing or were his partner is. 

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4 hours ago, Palfy said:

 

Isn’t it so why did we go with 3 CBs, I think it was because the space and misunderstanding between our CBs when we only played 2 was exposing us and we were conceding easy goals in the centre of our area. 
Let’s be honest Ancelotti made that change in formation and he said it himself because of the space we were allowing between the CBS, they don’t work in tandem together half the time there’s no connection between them and neither has a clue what the others doing or were his partner is. 

He has talked about wanting to be compact but you can be compact with 4 or 5. You can give too much space with 4 or 5 as well. I think the Fulham game proved that because we saw Godfrey getting pulled into areas he didn't need to be and then Keane not getting tight when he needed to. 

If you don't have a connection with 4 then adding another man in there isn't going to improve that connection and if anything it can make it worse because its another chef in the kitchen. 

Personally I don't think it matters who or how many play. I think they need more time on the training ground to get it right.

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6 hours ago, Bailey said:

He has talked about wanting to be compact but you can be compact with 4 or 5. You can give too much space with 4 or 5 as well. I think the Fulham game proved that because we saw Godfrey getting pulled into areas he didn't need to be and then Keane not getting tight when he needed to. 

If you don't have a connection with 4 then adding another man in there isn't going to improve that connection and if anything it can make it worse because its another chef in the kitchen. 

Personally I don't think it matters who or how many play. I think they need more time on the training ground to get it right.

I think we are screaming out for a CB who takes responsibility and sets a clear example. Neither Keane nor Mina seem interested in being that player. Interesting to see how it plays out in the coming weeks though. 

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9 hours ago, Bailey said:

He has talked about wanting to be compact but you can be compact with 4 or 5. You can give too much space with 4 or 5 as well. I think the Fulham game proved that because we saw Godfrey getting pulled into areas he didn't need to be and then Keane not getting tight when he needed to. 

If you don't have a connection with 4 then adding another man in there isn't going to improve that connection and if anything it can make it worse because its another chef in the kitchen. 

Personally I don't think it matters who or how many play. I think they need more time on the training ground to get it right.

The 3 CBS were to plug the caps in the area where most of our goals are conceded from in the centre of our goal, yes Godfrey was being pulled out to the right touch line far too often, that at times made it look like he was playing as a natural right back, if Iwobi was caught upfield you would expect him to do that someone has to go to the man out wide with the ball, yet he was going there even if Iwobi was in a good position.

But what should happen when Godfrey goes wide is Keane goes to cover the area Godfrey leaves Mina Keanes area and Digne covers Mina’s area that doesn’t happen with us. 
A great example of that was against Utd and the Fer goal Keanes got himself in a infective position 2 yards past the front post facing the the touch line eyes on the ball oblivious to the space between him and Holgate and the unmarked central area of our box, Holgate is marking his man at the far post he’s watching the game unfold in front of him yet doesn’t move to the danger which was to close the space and block off the area the man runs into and scores from, if he leaves his man it is possible that the ball goes longer and his man is open but that is when Digne comes in and drops on Holgate’s man, the back line and in particular the CBs have to be able to read the game and be quick to react, unfortunately ours don’t we have no leader and a lot of poor decision making going on, due in most to players not switched on to the ability required in the PL. 

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4 hours ago, Btay said:

I think we are screaming out for a CB who takes responsibility and sets a clear example. Neither Keane nor Mina seem interested in being that player. Interesting to see how it plays out in the coming weeks though. 

We need a Jags in there, an organiser.

I have two 8 year old defenders that watch each other’s position when they move backwards and forwards.... they move to get her for the most part. They are 8 years old, don’t even play offside till next year but I’m getting them ready. 

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38 minutes ago, Shukes said:

We need a Jags in there, an organiser.

I have two 8 year old defenders that watch each other’s position when they move backwards and forwards.... they move to get her for the most part. They are 8 years old, don’t even play offside till next year but I’m getting them ready. 

What the fuck are you training?!

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10 hours ago, Btay said:

I think we are screaming out for a CB who takes responsibility and sets a clear example. Neither Keane nor Mina seem interested in being that player. Interesting to see how it plays out in the coming weeks though. 

Completely agree. Its potentially the quality Holgate can bring when he is fully up to speed but there are still questions as to whether he is a good enough defender at this level. 

When you look at one of the better sides playing 5 at the back, Coady never stops talking and organising. I don't how Mina could do the same when I believe his English isn't great. It must be difficult.

 

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