Manchester City (Home) Wednesday 17th February

[RuffRob]

57 minutes ago, Palfy said:

So not the same for other teams that their players have played the same games it’s all relative every team have had to endure the same schedule we aren’t the only ones, a draw against City would be much better than a loss it keeps them below us, I honestly think Ancelotti will go out with the best players available to him, and who knows we good even get the win it’s happened on numerous occasions over the last few years against City. But using your maxim you have to defeat your enemies to win the war, and if we consider 4th and above winning the war you can’t allow the established teams at the top take all 3 points, if we hadn’t beaten Spurs Chelsea Leicester and Arsenal they would all be above us now, that’s how important it is to take the points of these teams if you want to improve your league position.

With Braithwaite Neil’s Beni Gordon and Cenk starting your looking at a massacre, I hope I never have to witness a team that has them together as long as I live.

Even before we got the results against Chelsea, Leicester and Arsenal I always said ( and if anybody cares to check back this was as early as when the fixture lists came out) that we have got lucky with the fixture list - and the reason we where lucky was because on the 6 week run up to these game we played once a week and all the other teams listed played twice a week with there European commitment. 

I agree that we don't wave the flag and make wholesale changes - against Sheff Utd our defence wasn't run ragged, it was an easy enough evening - so I would think we put the strongest defence possible on the pitch against City.

I would like to see Doucoure get a rest - he wasn't at his usual best against Sheff Utd, so would like to see him fresher for the hammers game. Unfortunately DCL will have to play, as I only see Richarlison as viable option up front instead of DCL and frustratingly he will not be allowed to play!!!

 

 

[London Blue]

8 minutes ago, Palfy said:

So not the same for other teams that their players have played the same games it’s all relative every team have had to endure the same schedule we aren’t the only ones, a draw against City would be much better than a loss it keeps them below us, I honestly think Ancelotti will go out with the best players available to him, and who knows we good even get the win it’s happened on numerous occasions over the last few years against City. But using your maxim you have to defeat your enemies to win the war, and if we consider 4th and above winning the war you can’t allow the established teams at the top take all 3 points, if we hadn’t beaten Spurs Chelsea Leicester and Arsenal they would all be above us now, that’s how important it is to take the points of these teams if you want to improve your league position.

With Braithwaite Neil’s Beni Gordon and Cenk starting your looking at a massacre, I hope I never have to witness a team that has them together as long as I live.

Other teams have rotated more than we have. What we have done very well is to get the maximum out of the first team, and this maximum effort has got us 4 wins which is amazing.   But we have now extracted the last drops out of them, and they need a chance to recover.

I am not saying that every time a so called top 4 team rocks up we should roll over and put the squad players out. What I am saying is that in these circumstances we should play the percentages game. We have a squad, now is the time to use them.

You say our team will get massacred, I doubt it, but these are the players we have at our disposal. Until we have a stronger squad these are the players we have to use. Man City will rotate, but they can bring in players who would walk into most teams in the league. We have to use what we have got. 

 

[Btay]

4 hours ago, MikeO said:

11-0 win and we're top of the league

And yet will will probably only win 2-0 and throw away the chance.... Everton that.

[Btay]

                          Pickford
Coleman  Holgate      Keane       Niels 

                 Davies         Gomes 

Gordon             Bernard       Richarlison 

                           Tosun 

 

We are even short a winger to get Richarlison uptop. It’s not ideal but I don’t think it’s bad as feared.

[Bailey]

6 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

In years past they beat everyone with conviction.  This year they have drawn with sides they have no business drawing with.  West ham, Leeds, and west brom.  Losing to Leicester and Spurs (we beat both).  Vintage city would have blitzed them all except maybe Spurs.  

That is exactly why, they arent scoring as much as they should do. I think it is something like they have scored half the goals this season that they did last season. 

Since Leicester they have tightened up massively at the back but they still aren't scoring yet. 

[Palfy]

3 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Other teams have rotated more than we have. What we have done very well is to get the maximum out of the first team, and this maximum effort has got us 4 wins which is amazing.   But we have now extracted the last drops out of them, and they need a chance to recover.

I am not saying that every time a so called top 4 team rocks up we should roll over and put the squad players out. What I am saying is that in these circumstances we should play the percentages game. We have a squad, now is the time to use them.

You say our team will get massacred, I doubt it, but these are the players we have at our disposal. Until we have a stronger squad these are the players we have to use. Man City will rotate, but they can bring in players who would walk into most teams in the league. We have to use what we have got. 

 

Evidence other teams have rotated more than us, and how do you know  that they’ve got nothing left in them that isn’t a fact that’s just an assumption on your part.

And try to remember these players are athletes they are fuelled through their intake to recover their energy in a day or 2 what stops them is injuries and niggles not tiredness. 
It will be interesting what the line up is tomorrow. 

[Bailey]

I don't think the line-up will change that much because surely it can't? 

If both Richarlison and James are out, Cenk isn't going to start so that leaves only 4 players that can realistically play in the 3 attacking spots.

In midfield we only have 4 players for 3 positions. 

We have other options at the back but that isn't really the problem. 

[London Blue]

14 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Evidence other teams have rotated more than us, and how do you know  that they’ve got nothing left in them that isn’t a fact that’s just an assumption on your part.

And try to remember these players are athletes they are fuelled through their intake to recover their energy in a day or 2 what stops them is injuries and niggles not tiredness. 
It will be interesting what the line up is tomorrow. 

Looking at the festive games I have looked at the line ups and from what I have seen teams have rotated.

I don't think I need to evidence our players being tired, it should be self explanatory, playing so many games over such a short period of time tires players out, just look at the performances against Utd and Sheffield. Carlo himself said so in the press conferences. 

I don't think Carlo will rotate as much as I have suggested, but players like Doucoure, Iwobi, Siggy, DCL, Godfrey need a rest.

 

[London Blue]

32 minutes ago, Btay said:

                          Pickford
Coleman  Holgate      Keane       Niels 

                 Davies         Gomes 

Gordon             Bernard       Richarlison 

                           Tosun 

 

We are even short a winger to get Richarlison uptop. It’s not ideal but I don’t think it’s bad as feared.

I think Richarlison is out with concussion.

[Btay]

16 minutes ago, London Blue said:

I think Richarlison is out with concussion.

ahh I saw him in training with Bernard and thought he might make it. 

[London Blue]

5 minutes ago, Btay said:

ahh I saw him in training with Bernard and thought he might make it. 

New guidelines to protect players, so he has to sit it out. It's good they are protecting players, its just it couldn't of come at a worse time.

[Btay]

3 minutes ago, London Blue said:

New guidelines to protect players, so he has to sit it out. It's good they are protecting players, its just it couldn't of come at a worse time.

100% agree. All our sports over here have concussion rules (subs/tests)

Dangerous thing concussions. I just hoped he might have got cleared.

[RuffRob]

I agree, don't see wholesale changed as we doing have enough fit players at the moment.  

The player I feel would benefit from a rest before the Man City game are Doucoure and Gyfi as both did look tired against Sheff Utd . DCL has played lots of football, so would obviously benefit a rest  - but he didn't look to bad against Shef Utd, so see him starting against City. If DCL looks tired in the Man City game then Richarlison could always play up front against West ham.

Gyfi could be rested with either Gomes or even Bernard in the middle - Gomes would suit a little more robust against a team like city when we will be defending a lot more. There are players who could step in to Gyfi's shoes without losing to much. 

Doucoure is more difficult to replace. He has put a hell of a lot of work and effort in since Allan was stretchered off - he has covers a serious amount of ground. He looked a little tired against Sheff Utd. I think having a less fatigued Doucoure available against West Ham might have a big impact on that game. So if already looking a bit tired do you play him against a Man City side knowing he is going to be one of the busiest players which will inevitably impact his energy levels in the West Ham game? Realistically, the only player I could see that could come in for Doucoure is Gomes but he is obviously not anywhere in the same calibre as Doucoure in this position. It might be a game to put Holgate in midfield and Colman as right back. 

 

               Pickford

Coleman, Mina Keane, Godfrey

        Holgate     Davies

Bernard     Gomes      Iwobi

                    DCL

 

or 

             Pickford

Holgate   Mina  Keane  Godfrey

         Gomes     Davies

Coleman      Gyfi           Iwobi

                     DCL 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[London Blue]

I think Iwobi needs a rest as much as the others, he is a big unit and makes lots of runs / sprints.

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, RuffRob said:

I agree, don't see wholesale changed as we doing have enough fit players at the moment.  

The player I feel would benefit from a rest before the Man City game are Doucoure and Gyfi as both did look tired against Sheff Utd . DCL has played lots of football, so would obviously benefit a rest  - but he didn't look to bad against Shef Utd, so see him starting against City. If DCL looks tired in the Man City game then Richarlison could always play up front against West ham.

Gyfi could be rested with either Gomes or even Bernard in the middle - Gomes would suit a little more robust against a team like city when we will be defending a lot more. There are players who could step in to Gyfi's shoes without losing to much. 

Doucoure is more difficult to replace. He has put a hell of a lot of work and effort in since Allan was stretchered off - he has covers a serious amount of ground. He looked a little tired against Sheff Utd. I think having a less fatigued Doucoure available against West Ham might have a big impact on that game. So if already looking a bit tired do you play him against a Man City side knowing he is going to be one of the busiest players which will inevitably impact his energy levels in the West Ham game? Realistically, the only player I could see that could come in for Doucoure is Gomes but he is obviously not anywhere in the same calibre as Doucoure in this position. It might be a game to put Holgate in midfield and Colman as right back. 

 

               Pickford

Coleman, Mina Keane, Godfrey

        Holgate     Davies

Bernard     Gomes      Iwobi

                    DCL

 

or 

             Pickford

Holgate   Mina  Keane  Godfrey

         Gomes     Davies

Coleman      Gyfi           Iwobi

                     DCL 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From what I can see if we assume that Richarlison is injured you have rested one player which is Doucoure, so why only one when you have been debating that players have to be rested, I would have thought that DCL would be out for Tosun and Iwobi out for Gordon and Godfrey out for Niels. 
The reality is you have to play a team that is going to have the best chance of success, I believe we will see Doucoure playing and if we don’t then surely the other 3 I mentioned should be out as well. 

[London Blue]

I will be amazed if Doucore plays.

[Romey 1878]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/27/carlo-ancelotti-plays-down-everton-title-talk-going-into-manchester-city-clash

[Palfy]

                          Pickford. 
 

Holgate.       Mina.      Keane.    Godfrey    

              Davies.             Doucoure. 
 

Iwobi.                 Gylfi.                Bernard

                            DCL 

If I was to see anything much different to that I would be shocked, my only doubts would be Keane and Davies who both went off with knocks. 

[Palfy]

11 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/27/carlo-ancelotti-plays-down-everton-title-talk-going-into-manchester-city-clash

That is a fair assumption of what we are aiming for this season a place in Europe preferably the CL that’s why you have to go all out to win these games against City, they are the team’s you need to take points from the big 6 or 7 because if you don’t you won’t get your dream, so no resting players that we have no credible replacements for in games of this magnitude, to do so is defeatist and gives you no guarantee of the next game or the next, you should always try your hardest to win the next game in front of you. 

[milesey05]

Set pieces will be key today as I feel it’s our best chance of sneaking a goal.

we have seen some grinds over the last few games and this will be our toughest yet.

3 shots on target against Sheffield United so I’m hoping Gylfi is on point with his deliveries.

Dacoure, Keane,Mina DCL and maybe Holgate to aim for. I don’t think City can match us in that department.

We will no doubt sit deep and defend for our lives. 
 

Maybe sneak a 1-0 win from a corner in 94th minute but would take a draw before ko.

Team pretty much picks itself from last game bar Gordon.

COYB

[RuffRob]

4 hours ago, Palfy said:

From what I can see if we assume that Richarlison is injured you have rested one player which is Doucoure, so why only one when you have been debating that players have to be rested, I would have thought that DCL would be out for Tosun and Iwobi out for Gordon and Godfrey out for Niels. 
The reality is you have to play a team that is going to have the best chance of success, I believe we will see Doucoure playing and if we don’t then surely the other 3 I mentioned should be out as well. 

You assumed I was for throwing the towel in against City and just rolling over and put a B team out - I have not said that at all. 

My debate has been that player get tired in period like this and do need resting - and out of the Sheff Utd, Man City and West Ham game - then for me the Man City would have be a good game to rest some legs, even key performers. I was debating you saying that some people on this forum who think players get tired and needing rotating are things of 'fairytales and princesses' and your belief that in every game you should always put out your best starting 11, no matter how many games are in their legs or what other games are up coming. 

Ideally, I would like to see three or four players rested for the city game - but as I have discussed at the moment we don't have the personnel to make massive changes tonight - Richarlison not being available is a massive loss as he could have covered DCL and still offer us a viable outlet against City, unfortunately, him being out makes resting others for this City game more difficult. Richarlison is an enforced rest on a player that doesn't really need it!!. Although, I understand the seriousness of concussion - so it is what it is. 

I wouldn't dream of just putting a team out containing all of Tosun, Gordon and Niels as well as Gomes. That's to much weakening of a team. 

In the West Ham game Richarlison will be back, so Iwobi can be rested that game (that will not weaken us against WHU). I would also happily put in  Gomes or even Bernard to cover Gylfi in the Hammers game (A fresher Gomes or Bernard as opposed to a goosed Gylfi also should not weaken us to much) - happier in the knowledge that we have a fresh legged Doucoure on the pitch. 

Out of all the players Doucoure looked to have lost the most to his game against Sheff Utd due to fatigue, and I would prefer to see him back at his best against West Ham as a full throttle Doucoure in this game may well mean the difference between winning and losing against the Hammers.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Doucoure play against City either as we don't have a great deal of cover for him at the moment - but I wouldn't be shaking my fist either if Ancelloti benched him for this game and did put out a slightly weaker team against City, with West Ham in his mind. 

 

 

[Bill]

If we were 16th in the league would you play your reserves against any team above you because you didn't fancy your chances. ?

Must always play the best team available and if anybody wants to cry off because they're feeling tired I wouldn't want them a the Club.

[Hafnia]

In a week's time we can sign players again and we absolutely should.

Man city aren't the team they were a couple of years ago.... It's a potentially transformative game in the sense that if we get a result then we jump on another level.

It's a disgrace that we are playing a game so soon I agree - only on the basis that Liverpool get an extra 2 days Vs us. 

We've had a tough December and regardless of what happens for the next 2 games we can class it as a great month. 

[Cisk]

Players I expect to be rested are: Keane & DCL (only players o play all league games this season), Doucoure (looks knackered).

Maybes: Godfrey (although Niels coming in for league debut against City is scary - talk about sink or swim. Wonder if Kenny is an option at LB) & Iwobi (long run of games).

Potential XI if so...

                         Olsen

Coleman  Holgate Mina  Godfrey(Kenny)

                        Davies

                 Gomes     Siggy

Gordon/Kenny                  Bernard

                         Tosun

 

Although Tosun up top on his own is a scary thought too - maybe Gordon can play alongside him for movement in more of a front 2.

 

Can also see Gordon on left and Bernard through middle to rest Siggy

[AlbanyNYToffee]

4 hours ago, London Blue said:

I will be amazed if Doucore plays.

Been thinking about this lineup for days and I'll be happy with any XI that doesn't include him. Too important to what we're building and played too much recently. 

1 hour ago, Bill said:

If we were 16th in the league would you play your reserves against any team above you because you didn't fancy your chances. ?

Must always play the best team available and if anybody wants to cry off because they're feeling tired I wouldn't want them a the Club.

We have this same debate every year at this time and it's always fun. No one is suggesting we shouldn't play our best team available, and none of the players are crying because they're tired. It's science. The players who played Sheffield United cannot possibly be back to 100% in 46 hours. So the question for everyone is would you rather play our regular starters at say 70% fit or are any of our reserves at 100% fit better than our starters at 70%? Everyone will feel differently about this. I'm going to amend my earlier lineup, here's what i think and hope to see:

Olsen

Coleman Mina Keane Kenny

Davies Holgate Gomes Bernard

 DCL Tosun

We cannot afford to lose Doucoure or Godfrey right now. Gomes and Davies as the holding mids has been and would be a DISASTER. If Carlo hasn't played Niels yet I doubt he'd do so against City - that's pretty much throwing him to the wolves. Hoping Tosun would help lighten the load on DCL. It's a big risk starting him but if we don't we simply cannot score. Not starting him would in my opinion be the closest thing we could do to accepting defeat before a ball is kicked. 

 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

In a week's time we can sign players again and we absolutely should.

Man city aren't the team they were a couple of years ago.... It's a potentially transformative game in the sense that if we get a result then we jump on another level.

It's a disgrace that we are playing a game so soon I agree - only on the basis that Liverpool get an extra 2 days Vs us. 

We've had a tough December and regardless of what happens for the next 2 games we can class it as a great month. 

And that is the point it’s a game that if we win would move us on, you have to go with your best players, DCL Doucoure Keane Godfrey every single player would gutted to be left out of the games like this, the games that can move the team forward. 

[Bill]

This is going to roll on and on.  If the manager doesn't think he can win with a full team, how the fuck does he think he's going to win with a weakened team, basically he's sending the team out knowing that they're going to get battered, if that's what he does I will lose a bit of respect for him.

We haven't got a chance of getting into the top four if we're going to deliberately throw games which  cost us points, we may not always win but we should always be trying to.

[AlbanyNYToffee]

32 minutes ago, Bill said:

This is going to roll on and on.  If the manager doesn't think he can win with a full team, how the fuck does he think he's going to win with a weakened team, basically he's sending the team out knowing that they're going to get battered, if that's what he does I will lose a bit of respect for him.

We haven't got a chance of getting into the top four if we're going to deliberately throw games which  cost us points, we may not always win but we should always be trying to.

Come on Bill that's twice now. There isn't a fan in the world suggesting we should not try to win this, or any, game. Your argument suggests we should only have a squad to cover for injuries. We've got a huge squad if that's all we're doing. I believe that rotating for this game, and the starting XI above rather than our regular XI, gives us the best chance to win. City will be tired as well. Fresh legs and minds could win this game. 

[Zoo 2.0]

35 minutes ago, Bill said:

This is going to roll on and on.  If the manager doesn't think he can win with a full team, how the fuck does he think he's going to win with a weakened team, basically he's sending the team out knowing that they're going to get battered, if that's what he does I will lose a bit of respect for him.

We haven't got a chance of getting into the top four if we're going to deliberately throw games which  cost us points, we may not always win but we should always be trying to.

I suppose we should just release all the squad players and just name eleven players in the squad next season to save on the wage bill in that case?

@AlbanyNYToffee has summed it up perfectly IMO, you seem to be missing the point and totally oblivious to the strain of playing sport at elite level. The earlier post about playing twice on a Saturday and then playing 5-a-side I struggled to take seriously.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]