Next Everton manager: the wisdom of TT.

[Bill]

We thought our bread was buttered on both sides when the best manager in the world decided to come here.  Its another failure who only stays with us for 18 months.  No point in us looking for the next best manager in the world because the same thing will happen, one or two seasons down the line he'll be off to a better and bigger club With a 10 million pay off.

I know Duncan is a very strange call to most people but we have to see if he's as bad or better than the other flops we've had. After Duncan I'd go with Moysey, our best manager in the last 35 years.

[Cisk]

52 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

You dismiss other candidates based on who they could attract but then suggest Ferguson as your preferred choice who would attract absolutely no one.

Although maybe that's what we need - players to sign for Everton because it's Everton, not who the manager is. Our recent history has shown that we get better performances from players who have either been lower in the league than us or have been bombed out by other teams. Moyes was good in this department (I'm not for reappointment Moyes though -  that ship has sailed). We need players who will play for the club to improve them too

[Romey 1878]

4 minutes ago, Cisk said:

Although maybe that's what we need - players to sign for Everton because it's Everton, not who the manager is. Our recent history has shown that we get better performances from players who have either been lower in the league than us or have been bombed out by other teams. Moyes was good in this department (I'm not for reappointment Moyes though -  that ship has sailed). We need players who will play for the club to improve them too

I agree that that's what we need from signings but I really think Ferguson would be a disastrous appointment. My biggest fear about it is that because of who he is that if it was all going wrong we'd stick with him for too long and find ourselves in shit that we couldn't get out of.

[c1982]

1 hour ago, Formby said:

Hiring from within / ex-players. Do they have the experience? Does it matter? United appointed OGS - he's learning on the job.

Ole has been a manager for many years - even Lampard had some time as first choice at Derby. Dunc has had 4 games - it would be a massive ask; maybe we need to encourage he gets a chance elsewhere. I bet he has learned plenty working with Ancelotti but I think it would be a huge call to suddenly give him the job on a permanent basis. Would I support the decision? Of course I would - especially if it’s backed by Brands but I’d rather he at least hone his skills in a lower league/abroad and if he looks like he’s got what it takes, give him the opportunity in the future.

Look what Gerrard has done - would he have got the Shite job with no experience? I doubt it. Ferguson needs to at least ‘have a go’ somewhere first.

[Formby]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

You dismiss other candidates based on who they could attract but then suggest Ferguson as your preferred choice who would attract absolutely no one.

I didn't say that at all. I I said i would countenance high-profile managers if they could get the players in. That is the one advantage they have. However, If Brands is involved, none of us have any idea who Everton / Brands / Ferguson could get.  

[Romey 1878]

23 minutes ago, Formby said:

I didn't say that at all. I I said i would countenance high-profile managers if they could get the players in. That is the one advantage they have. However, If Brands is involved, none of us have any idea who Everton / Brands / Ferguson could get.  

One thing is for sure; it's all a shit show. Again.

I'd love things to run smoothly. Just for a little while. It doesn't seem like that big an ask!

[DownUnderToff]

Rangnick, Conceicao, Favre, or Fonseca I could all get on board with.

Rangnick seems more about setting up  Org. wide structures and team identity, but if Brands and he can work together then great.  Talent selection wouldn't be a problem.

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Bill said:

He's been there and seen all these so called top Managers fail miserably, who can blame him for wanting to have a go himself.  He might not do very well but the others haven't done very well either.

So he hasn’t experienced any success, so I don’t see why we would expect him to be successful. 
I have no issue with Duncan wanting the job, non at all. He’s ambitious and that’s great, he should be. There is just nothing, even from the few games in charge, that make me think he’s the man we need to put the club back together. 

I get that we all invested emotionally into Carlo and feel let down, and Duncan is someone who will never let us down like that because he loves the club as much as we do. But we need a football manager at the helm, not a fan.
It’s nice and sentimental, but we don’t need sentiment, we need to win football matches and plenty of them. 

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Formby said:

Hiring from within / ex-players. Do they have the experience? Does it matter? United appointed OGS - he's learning on the job.

OGS had been a manager before, at much smaller clubs than United, but he had a few years under his belt. 
 

2 hours ago, Formby said:

They may be able to attract a few decent players they have worked with before but there is absolutely no guarantee they would fit in here. They also wouldn't get the club, either.

Why wouldn’t they get the club? Don’t understand that. 

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, c1982 said:

Ole has been a manager for many years - even Lampard had some time as first choice at Derby. Dunc has had 4 games - it would be a massive ask; maybe we need to encourage he gets a chance elsewhere. I bet he has learned plenty working with Ancelotti but I think it would be a huge call to suddenly give him the job on a permanent basis. Would I support the decision? Of course I would - especially if it’s backed by Brands but I’d rather he at least hone his skills in a lower league/abroad and if he looks like he’s got what it takes, give him the opportunity in the future.

Look what Gerrard has done - would he have got the Shite job with no experience? I doubt it. Ferguson needs to at least ‘have a go’ somewhere first.

This. As much as I enjoyed Ferguson's spell and I do think there is more "under the bonnet" he just can't have the job. Just like Unsworth, he needs to go and earn his stripes just like Critchley has done at Blackpool.

Going back to Nuno, I just had a read of some of the Wolves forums and they love him. They would be gutted to see him managing in the league against them next year.

[Hafnia]

Not being funny but Duncan Ferguson has been on the backroom staff of 4 managers I think now......

I would like to think that his supposed true blue nature would be transcending any type of manager where motivation/bollocking wasn't their thing.

 

[Bill]

 

Steve's dismissed Duncan because he's inexperienced, every body is inexperienced when they start a new job. You were when you first started your job. 

Dismissed Eddie Howe because He's an Evertonian and on that basis everyone who is an Evertonian deserves to be a manager.

Dismissed Rafa Benitez because he has a house on Merseyside.

And Dismissed David Moyes by saying he can just Fuck off. !!

I love these people who dismiss and criticize other peoples selections but don't have the bottle to name their own. They don't want other people to have a go at their selection.

Its not just you Steve, there's others on here giving out a lot of stick, but haven't come out with any suggestions of their own.

My last word on the subject.

[StevO]

16 minutes ago, Bill said:

 

Steve's dismissed Duncan because he's inexperienced, every body is inexperienced when they start a new job. You were when you first started your job. 

Dismissed Eddie Howe because He's an Evertonian and on that basis everyone who is an Evertonian deserves to be a manager.

Dismissed Rafa Benitez because he has a house on Merseyside.

And Dismissed David Moyes by saying he can just Fuck off. !!

I love these people who dismiss and criticize other peoples selections but don't have the bottle to name their own. They don't want other people to have a go at their selection.

Its not just you Steve, there's others on here giving out a lot of stick, but haven't come out with any suggestions of their own.

My last word on the subject.

My first job in management was not as big as the job I currently have. The three management posts I’ve had prior to this one were not as demanding. So I had to work my way up. I’m also not experienced enough for the next level above my current. I’m working towards it, but I’ve to go earn the right for the opportunity first. In any industry it’s not the norm to go in at the top level and I’d rather someone who’s more experienced than Duncan get the job. For the club and Duncan’s sake.
 

Eddie Howe is only being linked to the job because he’s an Evertonian. I dismiss him because he’s not good enough. 
 

Rafa having a house on Merseyside has been enough to link him to the job every time it comes up. I dismiss him because of his ties to Liverpool and his style of play. 
 

David Moyes did a decent job when he was here, I was gutted he left and I don’t think he is the way forward. He has a good job at West Ham and I hope he continues there, for our sake and David’s sake. 
 

I don’t have the bottle to name someone? I don’t have the knowledge to name someone. Not the bottle. There are names mentioned all over this thread that I’ve had to Google because I don’t watch football outside of the premier league, it doesn’t interest me. If I had more knowledge of football from around the world then I’d probably have more of an opinion on some of them. 

I don’t have to know the manager I want to be able to know the managers I don’t want.

From the managers we have been linked with I’d not be too disappointed if we got Nuno, but I’d also not be very excited. I’ve seen links with Sarri, wouldn’t be disappointed and wouldn’t be excited. Have a go at both of them, be my guest. I hope Brands has more knowledge of world and European football to be able to make a better appointment than I could.

[Sibdane]

3 hours ago, DownUnderToff said:

Rangnick, Conceicao, Favre, or Fonseca I could all get on board with.

Rangnick seems more about setting up  Org. wide structures and team identity, but if Brands and he can work together then great.  Talent selection wouldn't be a problem.

All of these would be at the top of my list tbh. I'm not against Santo either.

Like everybody else though, I just want some god damn stability. It hurts that Carlo isn't the answer because of all the hope he brought. Really disappointed in him. 

[badaids]

I like NES too, but I have three issues with him and would worry if he came here. 1). He’s leaving Wolves for a reason and it looks to be that he is completely jaded and burned out 2). It’s true the Wolves fans love him because of the job he did, but he also clicked with the club - who would have thunk a bearded Portuguese bloke could click in Wolverhampton? I don’t think that connection would happen at Everton, not because Everton aren’t a great club with great fans - we are. It’s just that 3). Wolves are a really well run club and Everton are not - there’s just not a infrastructure in place to support a successful team at the present.  
 

This last point will apply to any manager. At the end of the day anyone we appointed is going to struggle, just like the last 5 because the problems at Everton go much deeper than the manager and are systematic. We need to sort that out as much as anything.

 

Not seen Arteta’s name mentioned - are the Arse going to stick with him because if not I guess he would be in the running. Not that I’d want him here...

 

[Cornish Steve]

2 minutes ago, badaids said:

I like NES too, but I have three issues with him and would worry if he came here. 1). He’s leaving Wolves for a reason and it looks to be that he is completely jaded and burned out 2). It’s true the Wolves fans love him because of the job he did, but he also clicked with the club - who would have thunk a bearded Portuguese bloke could click in Wolverhampton? I don’t think that connection would happen at Everton, not because Everton aren’t a great club with great fans - we are. It’s just that 3). Wolves are a really well run club and Everton are not - there’s just not a infrastructure in place to support a successful team at the present.  
 

This last point will apply to any manager. At the end of the day anyone we appointed is going to struggle, just like the last 5 because the problems at Everton go much deeper than the manager and are systematic. We need to sort that out as much as anything.

 

Not seen Arteta’s name mentioned - are the Arse going to stick with him because if not I guess he would be in the running. Not that I’d want him here...

 

I mentioned Arteta near the beginning and would definitely consider that option.

[Cornish Steve]

It's been depressing to read some of the names being touted in the press - Moyes and Benitez, particular - but this is the worst so far...

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/06/03/report-everton-discuss-hiring-former-manager-in-board-meeting-it-isnt-moyes-or-martinez/

[MC11]

Moyes for me. 

[pete0]

Find the Nuno Santo shouts a bit surprising. Wolves recruitment has been very good but I don't see much improvement in the players or anything to say they're manager is great tactician.

He made wolves solid enough defensively but relies too much on luck to create. Very rare they're outplayed a team this year. 

 

[Zoo 2.0]

2 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

I mentioned Arteta near the beginning and would definitely consider that option.

Wait, what?

[dunlopp9987]

Let's face it, friends. When we were able to bring in Carlo, I'd guess 99% of Evertonians were over the moon and in full support of the appointment. 

We will not find a manager for this season that is going to be everyone's first choice. Every manager that's being named has their flaws, and there's no name out there that has us universally excited. If it's Nuno, the room is gonna be split. If it's Moyes, the room is gonna be split. And on and on and on. 

Right now the only comfort and solace I have is going back and re-watching the derby win over and over. I might actually just hit play on that game whenever there's a starting whistle this upcoming season. Just go full Groundhog Day.

[Formby]

6 hours ago, StevO said:

OGS had been a manager before, at much smaller clubs than United, but he had a few years under his belt. 
 

Why wouldn’t they get the club? Don’t understand that. 

Post-Moyes, I don't think any of the managers 'got' the club; even Moyes showed  a nasty, disrespectful side when he left. Koeman, Allardyce, Silva, certainly not. Ancelotti was miles away. Martinez talked a good talk. From this admittedly small sample, I am guessing we will have the same problem with managers of Santo's stature - definitely with high-profile ones. It's not a mutually exclusive position - it would be great if we could find a high-profile manager who did get us. I think it's more likely the other way round, though - someone who gets the club who becomes a great manager. It's no coincidence that our most successful managers have been Everton players: Kendall, Catterick, Royle!  

[MikeO]

8 minutes ago, Formby said:

It's no coincidence that our most successful managers have been Everton players: Kendall, Catterick, Royle!  

Colin Harvey won us a Charity Shield as well....and also had a better win ratio than Royle did.

[MikeO]

On 02/06/2021 at 11:36, Bill said:

The only unbeaten manager in Evertons long history ..... Duncan Ferguson.

Jimmy Gabriel and Unsy, both 100% win records.

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Find the Nuno Santo shouts a bit surprising. Wolves recruitment has been very good but I don't see much improvement in the players or anything to say they're manager is great tactician.

He made wolves solid enough defensively but relies too much on luck to create. Very rare they're outplayed a team this year. 

 

I would say Adama Traore came on leaps and bounds. Coady became an England player under him. Jota got a big money move and Jimenez was probably one of the hottest striking properties before he got injured. 

Matt Doherty has almost certainly gone downhill since leaving Molyneaux however it is early days there. 

I think there is a debate to be had there but I think it is a case of how much he has improved players rather than whether he has or hasn't.

I agree with the latter bit though, he is a defensive manager. His teams are not known to score many goals. They scored 1 more goal than West Brom this season. They were the joint 8th best the season before but were well down the rankings again the season before that scoring 7 goals less than Marco Silva's side. When you have Jimenez and Jota it doesn't feel like a very good return.

I also think they had some of the lowest possession stats of the better teams in previous seasons. Just looking through some of the basic stats from last season, they seemed to struggle when they saw more of the ball. Sound familiar? 

Every time I start to buy into a manager, there is something else that puts me off them. Its a tough one.

 

 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Formby said:

Post-Moyes, I don't think any of the managers 'got' the club; even Moyes showed  a nasty, disrespectful side when he left. Koeman, Allardyce, Silva, certainly not. Ancelotti was miles away. Martinez talked a good talk. From this admittedly small sample, I am guessing we will have the same problem with managers of Santo's stature - definitely with high-profile ones. It's not a mutually exclusive position - it would be great if we could find a high-profile manager who did get us. I think it's more likely the other way round, though - someone who gets the club who becomes a great manager. It's no coincidence that our most successful managers have been Everton players: Kendall, Catterick, Royle!  

I think a week ago you would have said Ancelotti got the club. I think everyone would have. 

[Formby]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Jimmy Gabriel and Unsy, both 100% win records.

That seals it! Has to be Duncan.

[Newty82]

As it stands, unless there is something off radar, Nuno seems the most realistic.

I've done a bit on him the last couple of days. I think I'm still slightly in favour on the basis of being realistic but was really surprised by Wolves lack of goals and style of play. Honestly thought they were much more expensive.

Also really surprised by Wolves huge NET spend in the first 2 Premiership years. Although they got 7th as a result, their spend even made ours look normal. Coincidentally, they spent next to nothing NET this year and struggled. Maybe that was why they parted company? It was mutual consent, maybe a change of plan behind the scenes regarding transfer policy?

Not dead excited but then we've finished mid table in recent years more often than anything else. So what are we realistically expecting to attract?

[Formby]

13 minutes ago, StevO said:

I think a week ago you would have said Ancelotti got the club. I think everyone would have. 

Yes, indeed. Completely taken in. He obviously didn't.   

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Formby said:

Yes, indeed. Completely taken in. He obviously didn't.   

I think he did get us, I really do. But it’s Real Madrid and a realistic chance to win things. As much as it’s hurts I don’t blame him.