Next Everton manager: the wisdom of TT.

[Zoo 2.0]

2 minutes ago, StevO said:

I think he did get us, I really do. But it’s Real Madrid and a realistic chance to win things. As much as it’s hurts I don’t blame him. 

I don't blame him, but what I can blame is him distancing himself from the exact same role that he left for - especially when (I believe) he was actually in talks with them all along.

[c1982]

Excellent news (if true):

 

[RuffRob]

As much as I love big Dunc, I am in the camp of him not being given the managers job. He has to cut his teeth first in the lower leagues first. Trying to break in to the top 6 is a massive ask of an experienced manager, never mind a rookie. We actually need somebody a little more worldly. It has the making of a disaster for both Everton and big Dunc.

Lets look at the facts - Ferguson joined the coaching team in 2014 and has been an ever present - there have not many highlights during this period. The managers he has been working alongside have been failures with us. He's not been part of anything good. If he wasn't the legend that is 'big Dunc', would anybody be seriously suggesting we promote the coach we have in place since 2014 to be the manager!!!! The argument that he has worked alongside the great Ancelotti who was delivering the poorest football I have ever seen over the past 3-4month - is not a positive to me. 

in a way we need some fresh coaching ideas, and it may be time for Dunc to take a managers position and gain the worldly experience he will need to be a top manager.  

At the moment I fancy Nuno, as he was doing good things with Wolves, and this season at Wolves was a little transitional as he wanted to play with more possession, as he knew this had to be done to progress and break in to the top 6, but Wolves owner appeared slow in backing him. His goal over the next few years was breaking in to top 6, so aligns pretty well with our goal!! Think he will also suit our Portuguese  and Spanish speaking players.  He may turn out to be a better fit than Ancelotti. 

 

[Hafnia]

4 hours ago, pete0 said:

Find the Nuno Santo shouts a bit surprising. Wolves recruitment has been very good but I don't see much improvement in the players or anything to say they're manager is great tactician.

He made wolves solid enough defensively but relies too much on luck to create. Very rare they're outplayed a team this year. 

 

He's best mates with Jorge Mendes which is why he got top players. He has some serious influence

[Aidan]

I'd be disappointed in any of the current favourites other than Rafa or Potter.

Nuno, more like nono. 

Howe, how about no? 

Pirlo must be a wind up, and Conte won't come here will he?

Id rather have Dunc over Nuno and Howe. 

[Cisk]

The more I search for managers available and with recent experience its Christopher Galtier who appeals, followed by Ralph Ragnick

[Isaiah]

6 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

It's been depressing to read some of the names being touted in the press - Moyes and Benitez, particular - but this is the worst so far...

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/06/03/report-everton-discuss-hiring-former-manager-in-board-meeting-it-isnt-moyes-or-martinez/

Christ, all we need now is for Koeman to get the bullet from Barca and the press will be able to throw all our former managers into the mix. 

That said, I recently read a good interview with Marco and he's apparently spent his time away from management studying the game in various ways, so who knows? Honestly I wouldn't be all that disappointed to take a look at what he's learnt (I'm NOT saying he'd be my choice of manager; just that at this point it's all just a lottery to me, who the hell knows what will work at Everton right now?).

Ferguson - no. I love him but if his one main skill is geeing up apathetic players then why didn't he employ that skill against all those cannon fodder teams who were taking us to the cleaners last season? It was presumably one of his roles. Could he not have taken a few of them aside in the tunnel during half time against Sheffield United and given them a glimpse of why he was incarcerated? I was under the impression that Carlo was the tactics man and Ferguson was the passion man (otherwise why is he even there?). So where was it at the tail end of last season?

Moyes, also no for me, his behaviour after he left was arrogant and disrespectful, and honestly I think last season with West Ham was a freakish occurance. 

Martinez, yeah I'd take him. He can only have learnt in the time since he left. He has the respect of some of the best players in the world at Belgium, many of whom ply their day trade under other world class managers. You don't get that if you're a mug. 

Let's see, who else? Walter Smith, no, I am still having twice weekly therapy sessions over his signing of Ibrahima Bakayoko. Mike Walker? Well, he brought Big Dunc to the club on loan but he's pushing 80 now and I question if he has the energy for the modern game. 

Like I said earlier, I'm honestly a bit apathetic to whoever gets the gig, because I don't think our problem is fundamentally one of who the manager is. Some of those performances last season were indicative of a team that is rotten to the core, and it's for that reason I'm not all that sorry to see Carlo go. First and foremost we need a clearout of playing staff over the next year or so (keep about 8 of them). Baines, Pienaar, Coleman, Cahill, DCL, Godfrey, none of these were big signings, yet they have been and are our most important players. Stuff your James Rodriguezes, get someone in who has an eye for the next Cahill, the next Baines, the next Godfrey (easier said than done, I know). We need a proper old-school coach. These boutique "I'll harness a team of big-ego superstars to victory" managers aren't what we need.  

[Palfy]

13 minutes ago, Isaiah said:

First and foremost we need a clearout of playing staff over the next year or so (keep about 8 of them). Baines, Pienaar, Coleman, Cahill, DCL, Godfrey, none of these were big signings, yet they have been and are our most important players. Stuff your James Rodriguezes, get someone in who has an eye for the next Cahill, the next Baines, the next Godfrey (easier said than done, I know). We need a proper old-school coach. These boutique "I'll harness a team of big-ego superstars to victory" managers aren't what we need.  

Whether you actually agree or not you have just highlighted most of the attributes that Moyes has. Moyes knows how to find the up and coming players and turn them into the finished article, he also knows how to build a team that respect and work for him. Look at the players he brought to the club using one of the smallest budgets  of any PL club nearly every year he was here.

[Cornish Steve]

2 hours ago, StevO said:

I think he did get us, I really do. But it’s Real Madrid and a realistic chance to win things. As much as it’s hurts I don’t blame him. 

I agree with this very much. Let's be realistic: Why would he turn down Real Madrid? Also, in his statement, he poignantly made reference to his family.

Great managers are ruthless, and there are positives and negatives to that.

[Cornish Steve]

Having had time to consider, here are my choices in order (and totally ignoring what's practical):

1) Conte
2) Martinez
3) Arteta
4) Potter

Not Moyes: You can't undo his comments and attitude when leaving the last time. We should be offering Baines to United for free???

Not Benitez: Honestly, I found his style of play at Liverpool boring and largely ineffective, and he'd make bizarre substitutions.

Not Ferguson: Passion wins you an occasional game, but he's unproven and hardly made a difference this past season.

Not Nuno since we'd be back to hiring an average manager to achieve average results.

Not any other name from Europe since it must be someone with Premier League experience.

[markjazzbassist]

If conte is actually an option I would love him.  He has the fire and passion and is a tough bastard.  No bullshit from his players.  I don’t think it’s realistic though.  He just won serie A, he’s gonna come to 10th place Everton?  

[Romey 1878]

7 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

If conte is actually an option I would love him.  He has the fire and passion and is a tough bastard.  No bullshit from his players.  I don’t think it’s realistic though.  He just won serie A, he’s gonna come to 10th place Everton?  

It looks like he’s heading to Spurs. 

[Isaiah]

About Conte, all I'll say is that this group of players we currently have sat in a dressing room and time after time apparently thought to themselves: "It means nothing to me to be managed by 3-time Champions League winner Carlo Ancelotti, I'm going to go out there and make zero effort".  I just don't get what anyone thinks Conte would get out of this spineless bunch. He is never going to stick around for the kind of 2 to 3 year overhaul we need, and any short-term 'success' (that means fluking a Europa League qualification) he achieves will see him leave for 'higher' climes and then we're back where we are now.

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, Isaiah said:

About Conte, all I'll say is that this group of players we currently have sat in a dressing room and time after time apparently thought to themselves: "It means nothing to me to be managed by 3-time Champions League winner Carlo Ancelotti, I'm going to go out there and make zero effort".  I just don't get what anyone thinks Conte would get out of this spineless bunch. He is never going to stick around for the kind of 2 to 3 year overhaul we need, and any short-term 'success' (that means fluking a Europa League qualification) he achieves will see him leave for 'higher' climes and then we're back where we are now.

Conte likes a challenge.  He is a proven winner at every level (working his way up in a lower league).  He won a lot at juve and left for the Italy job.  Won the premier league with Chelsea. Won the league with inter.  I don’t care how short term he is a winner.  If Spurs got him that sucks because he will get them winning and tough to beat.  

[Zoo 2.0]

David Moyes has extended his West Ham contract until 2024. 

Yayyyyy

[Btay]

My fear is by the time identify a new manager, make the appointment and then develop targets for the squad there won’t be much time left in the window.

[Formby]

1 hour ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

David Moyes has extended his West Ham contract until 2024. 

Yayyyyy

Should put him nicely in the frame for our next managerial merry-go-round.

[Palfy]

Ricky Tomlinson as applied as Mike Basset former England manager, by all accounts Moshiri and Kenwright are giving it some serious consideration. 

[Romey 1878]

2 hours ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

David Moyes has extended his West Ham contract until 2024. 

Yayyyyy

Thank fuck for that. Now all I need is Howe to agree to manage somewhere else, Ferguson to say he's happy to just hold the substitute board up, and I'll breathe a bit easier.

[MikeO]

9 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Not Benitez: Honestly, I found his style of play at Liverpool boring and largely ineffective, and he'd make bizarre substitutions.

He'd fit right in then.

[barryj]

I thought the Moyes contract extension news was fake? 

[Romey 1878]

56 minutes ago, barryj said:

I thought the Moyes contract extension news was fake? 

Don't do that to me!

[Matt]

14 hours ago, StevO said:

I think he did get us, I really do. But it’s Real Madrid and a realistic chance to win things. As much as it’s hurts I don’t blame him. 

He's run back to a club who tried to destroy the game (still sticking to their guns) and dumped him the moment he didn't win everything. He is not the person he says he is. 

[barryj]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

Don't do that to me!

It was from a spoof sky sports account. Don’t think he’d come back here anyway and I can’t believe we’d be that unimaginative. My favourite is probably Potter but I’m sure there will be others that would agree. 

[Bailey]

14 hours ago, Cisk said:

The more I search for managers available and with recent experience its Christopher Galtier who appeals, followed by Ralph Ragnick

I am not sure Ragnick would work under another DoF,.

Galtier is an interesting one. Long serving manager of Saint-Etienne winning a trophy with them during that period. He then joins a relegation threatened Lille, guides them to safety and then finished 2nd and 1st in the following two seasons. During his time in France he won 3 manager of the year awards (all paraphrased from Wiki)

I haven't seen Lille play so I thought I would do some research. They had by far the best xG against by a massive 8 goals. They conceded 23 but were expected to concede 25. I know you can't really compare but City conceded 32 this season. Whilst they weren't as good the previous season, they were still solid. The evidence from his time at Saint Etienne showed no real defensive quality.

In an attacking sense, Lille scored a massive 15 goals more than they were expected to. The quality of their chances would put them at 10th in the league. They were better the year before but it wasn't anything significant. The same applied to Saint Etienne in that it was very much run of the mill.

Their record in Europe during this spell isn't particularly inspiring either.

He feels a bit more like a Ranieri rather than someone who will take us forward.

5 hours ago, Btay said:

My fear is by the time identify a new manager, make the appointment and then develop targets for the squad there won’t be much time left in the window.

If Brands is guiding the search, then I don't think it will matter. Brands will be hiring someone who fits in with his philosophy and the players we have and the players he wants. That is ultimately how a DoF should work, when the owners aren't sticking their oar in.

[dunlopp9987]

3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I am not sure Ragnick would work under another DoF,.

This is why I never took much stock in the Ragnick rumors

[Bailey]

Does anyone watch Spanish football?

I was doing some research in La Liga for underrated teams/managers and I noticed how well Real Sociedad were doing under Imanol Alguacil for the last two seasons. The articles I have read on his tactics look promising but I haven't seen them play to know whether it is true or not.

[johnh]

7 hours ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

David Moyes has extended his West Ham contract until 2024. 

Yayyyyy

He could do an Ancelotti and renege on it.

[Cornish Steve]

39 minutes ago, johnh said:

He could do an Ancelotti and renege on it.

Are you trying to raise my blood pressure, John? 

[DownUnderToff]

2 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

This is why I never took much stock in the Ragnick rumors

Not entirely sold on that interpretation (quote before yours sorry). 

He's been a DOF, and managed at clubs where he implemented the DOF. 

Seems like he enjoys projects and he likes building the structure, I can see how he might be sold on a partnership with Brands.