Matheus Nunes

[markjazzbassist]

4 hours ago, BedfordBlue said:

Manager should definitely choose who comes in have you not seen the shit brands brought 

glad i'm not the only one that isn't impressed with brands.

[Matt]

3 hours ago, BedfordBlue said:

So 3 decent signings and a couple with potential hardly inspiring 

In 3 years... 

Some of you will simply be impossible to please.  

[markjazzbassist]

18 minutes ago, patto said:

I think Walsh done most of the damage plus Sam and Koeman they wasted millions between them. 

I’ve done a comparison before and Walsh and brands Are the same for amount of bad transfers, ok ones, and great ones.  Not much between the 2 of them except Walsh gets blasted and brands is seen as competent.

[BedfordBlue]

We've gone nowhere since Brands came in. Director of football is a waste of money just let the manager choose the players. 

[Cornish Steve]

Frankly, I don't think Brands has been given sole decision-making power, and IMO he should be. He should be making the recruitment decisions, not the manager. It's the role of the manager to get the best use of them. If this isn't the case, then ask Brands to leave because his role is superfluous.

And why is that? Because, if managers make decisions, the club changes its fundamental strategy whenever a manager leaves or is fired, and we've seen the results of that. If the DoF calls the shots, a change in manager should not have a big impact.

[Shukes]

4 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Frankly, I don't think Brands has been given sole decision-making power, and IMO he should be. He should be making the recruitment decisions, not the manager. It's the role of the manager to get the best use of them. If this isn't the case, then ask Brands to leave because his role is superfluous.

And why is that? Because, if managers make decisions, the club changes its fundamental strategy whenever a manager leaves or is fired, and we've seen the results of that. If the DoF calls the shots, a change in manager should not have a big impact.

Exactly. There aren’t many managers these days who have sole decision on transfers.

The club usually decides what players to go after, with some input from the manager of course, but mainly form the scouts and recruitment team. 
A good manager should be able to do exactly that, manage players. Whoever they are. 

[c1982]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

I’ve done a comparison before and Walsh and brands Are the same for amount of bad transfers, ok ones, and great ones.  Not much between the 2 of them except Walsh gets blasted and brands is seen as competent.

The big difference is Brands’ signings have generally retained their value or at least have resale value even if they haven’t offered a lot e.g Iwobi, Kean, Bernard whereas Walsh signings have cost us so much more with very little/no resale e.g Tosun, Walcott, Gylfi. Before anyone tries to put Delph in the same bracket as the Walsh signings - £8m (or whatever we paid) is pittance in comparison.

[Palfy]

Are we back on this subject again, let me tell you this there will be no first team players coming to Everton without Rafa’s say so, he won’t be told I’ve bought you this and that now get on with it, he will build his team with the players he wants, he hasn’t come here to pick up a wage he’s come here to build his team in his image. Honestly I know of no decent managers who would have it any other way. 

[Shukes]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Are we back on this subject again, let me tell you this there will be no first team players coming to Everton without Rafa’s say so, he won’t be told I’ve bought you this and that now get on with it, he will build his team with the players he wants, he hasn’t come here to pick up a wage he’s come here to build his team in his image. Honestly I know of no decent managers who would have it any other way. 

I would have argued Carlo… then I read that you said “no decent manager”

[Palfy]

19 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I would have argued Carlo… then I read that you said “no decent manager”

. The same with Carlo he signed players he wanted bar Doucoure and Godfrey who were suggested to him by Brands after the 2 Carlo wanted joined Spurs and Arsenal, so that’s great from Brands but Carlo would had to have given the green light before they were signed, and it wouldn’t have happened if Carlo got the players he was originally after. Brands hasn’t had the last shout or say on any of the managers since he joined, he did want to this time round and was overruled by the owners money man, a tough gig for him but the money he is on must lesson the pain or I thought he would have left by now if he was expecting more control and not getting it. 

[Harv]

3 hours ago, BedfordBlue said:

We've gone nowhere since Brands came in. Director of football is a waste of money just let the manager choose the players. 

Agreed.

[StevO]

8 hours ago, BedfordBlue said:

So 3 decent signings and a couple with potential hardly inspiring 

You read Matts post and that was your conclusion? Weird. 

[Cornish Steve]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

Are we back on this subject again, let me tell you this there will be no first team players coming to Everton without Rafa’s say so, he won’t be told I’ve bought you this and that now get on with it, he will build his team with the players he wants, he hasn’t come here to pick up a wage he’s come here to build his team in his image. Honestly I know of no decent managers who would have it any other way. 

And that's the problem right there. Let's say Benitez struggles and the board decide in January it's time for him to go. If he chooses the recruits, Everton is once again stuck with players who don't want to be here when the manager leaves, with long-term expensive contracts, and the new manager will want different players. The cycle will just continue.

Separate recruitment decisions from the manager: It's the only route to long-term stability and success. If a manager doesn't like it, then he's not right for the Everton setup. Simples.

[StevO]

13 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

And that's the problem right there. Let's say Benitez struggles and the board decide in January it's time for him to go. If he chooses the recruits, Everton is once again stuck with players who don't want to be here when the manager leaves, with long-term expensive contracts, and the new manager will want different players. The cycle will just continue.

Separate recruitment decisions from the manager: It's the only route to long-term stability and success. If a manager doesn't like it, then he's not right for the Everton setup. Simples.

Exactly this. It’s worked at many many clubs around the world. No reason it can’t work here. 
It’s not like the manager will have no say in the transfers, it’s just a bit more committee based than one man. If the manager does not want a player then don’t buy them, the same as if the DOF doesn’t then don’t buy them. But there has to be a structure. 
We have had to start all over again with each new manager. In the meantime Chelsea have had loads of managers and their structure continues as does their success. 

[Bill]

The trouble starts when the DOF wants a player but the Manager doesn't, lots of trouble in the ranks.

[Bailey]

The DoF model gets plenty of bad press when it goes wrong but you barely hear about it when it goes right and yet I imagine almost every successful club uses a DoF model.

 

[Palfy]

54 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

And that's the problem right there. Let's say Benitez struggles and the board decide in January it's time for him to go. If he chooses the recruits, Everton is once again stuck with players who don't want to be here when the manager leaves, with long-term expensive contracts, and the new manager will want different players. The cycle will just continue.

Separate recruitment decisions from the manager: It's the only route to long-term stability and success. If a manager doesn't like it, then he's not right for the Everton setup. Simples.

You will not find a manager worth having under those ideals, that doesn’t happen in any club that I know of that recruitment decisions are kept separate from the managers, I think from memory the closest a club who tried to run in that direction was PSG with DoF Leonardo, but that was squashed by Pochitino who threatened to leave and was backed by the owners. You cannot take the most crucial role of player recruitment out of the managers hands, to avoid the scenario you have mentioned you make sure you employ the right manager. 

[Cornish Steve]

21 minutes ago, Palfy said:

You will not find a manager worth having under those ideals, that doesn’t happen in any club that I know of that recruitment decisions are kept separate from the managers, I think from memory the closest a club who tried to run in that direction was PSG with DoF Leonardo, but that was squashed by Pochitino who threatened to leave and was backed by the owners. You cannot take the most crucial role of player recruitment out of the managers hands, to avoid the scenario you have mentioned you make sure you employ the right manager. 

There are several examples, but let's take Lille for starters. Their DoF model is about to be tested since their former manager was recruited by another team. After a successful year, will they have to start over again? Let's see how they perform this year. As for other teams, Inter Milan and Seville are two good examples.

[markjazzbassist]

I’m in agreement that the DOF model is the way to go.  Sadly our DOF isn’t choosing the managers.  A rich guy who knows little about football is.  @Cornish Steve had a great example in Sevilla.  They have had a lot of different managers.  But monchi does great recruiting and only hires attacking football type managers.  If brands did that I’d be signing his praises.  InsteD we get defense first guys and awful results on the pitch.  So either let brands do his job or if moshiri doesn’t trust him then hire someone better that he will trust

[Shukes]

A manager who can only manage his own players simply isn’t a good manager. 
 

Managers like Pep for example have gone from club to club and had success. And it was Pep who flippantly tossed the comment… “I have a people to sort that out for me” when asked about transfers.

We need a manager now who can come in, and get the best out of the players we already have. Concentrate on managing the team, and let others do their jobs.

Managers like Moyes are a thing of the past. 

[Makis]

9 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

There are several examples, but let's take Lille for starters. Their DoF model is about to be tested since their former manager was recruited by another team. After a successful year, will they have to start over again? Let's see how they perform this year. As for other teams, Inter Milan and Seville are two good examples.

Dortmund have changed managers several times, yet keep doing well. This whole idea managers sign players is a British thing. Clubs in continent have always had a head coach rather than a manager. They don't necessarily have a DoF, could be a bunch of people making the decisions. But the idea that the same guy who coaches players also signs them is a bit alien.

[Harv]

13 hours ago, Bailey said:

The DoF model gets plenty of bad press when it goes wrong but you barely hear about it when it goes right and yet I imagine almost every successful club uses a DoF model.

 

Unfortunately it hasn't  brought success and very little improvement in our case.

[StevO]

13 hours ago, Bill said:

The trouble starts when the DOF wants a player but the Manager doesn't, lots of trouble in the ranks.

But that will happen at any club with a DOF. In that scenario they don’t buy the player. It must happen constantly. People can disagree without it causing trouble. It would only cause trouble if they went ahead and bought the player anyway. 

[StevO]

13 hours ago, Palfy said:

You will not find a manager worth having under those ideals, that doesn’t happen in any club that I know of that recruitment decisions are kept separate from the managers, I think from memory the closest a club who tried to run in that direction was PSG with DoF Leonardo, but that was squashed by Pochitino who threatened to leave and was backed by the owners. You cannot take the most crucial role of player recruitment out of the managers hands, to avoid the scenario you have mentioned you make sure you employ the right manager. 

But most big clubs around the world work like that. It shouldn’t be taken completely out of the managers hands, he needs to be part of the discussion, it has to be a collaboration between the DOF and the manager. All of the worlds top clubs and top managers are used to working like this. 

[StevO]

14 minutes ago, Harv said:

Unfortunately it hasn't  brought success and very little improvement in our case.

I think you, and many others, have underestimated the mess that Brands has spent the last three years trying to clean up. 

[Palfy]

10 minutes ago, StevO said:

But most big clubs around the world work like that. It shouldn’t be taken completely out of the managers hands, he needs to be part of the discussion, it has to be a collaboration between the DOF and the manager. All of the worlds top clubs and top managers are used to working like this. 

I agree that most clubs work with a DoF and that they work with the managers to recruit the players or type of players they want, my argument with your first statement was that you want to separate  recruitment from the managers, that’s just not going to happen, the managers who aren’t just there for a pay packet and who are proven will want final say on players and back room staff, are you telling me Pep Klopp Mouirinho Ancelotti don’t get final say on who’s signed for the first team or they shouldn’t?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 Not sure this is the right thread for this but anyway
 

https://www.footballfancast.com/everton-transfer-rumours/matheus-nunes-toffees-premier-league-rafa-benitez-transfers-rumours-gossip-analysis

[BedfordBlue]

17 hours ago, StevO said:

You read Matts post and that was your conclusion? Weird. 

What's weird about it 

[Gwlad]

I understood that DoF is not only concerned with recruitment of players but development of the junior teams upward plus being in the loop with club finances. Undoubtedly Rafa has players he'd like but from his press conference seems to be assessing how existing players fit into future plans (and hopefully those who don't).

[markjazzbassist]

2 hours ago, Gwlad all over said:

I understood that DoF is not only concerned with recruitment of players but development of the junior teams upward plus being in the loop with club finances. Undoubtedly Rafa has players he'd like but from his press conference seems to be assessing how existing players fit into future plans (and hopefully those who don't).

That’s how monchi does it they have a style and the youth play it and the senior team plays it.  They recruit for their style.  Under brands there is no cohesive style, no brand (pun intended) on the side.  We have godfrey and delph, we have digne and Bernard.  There is no signifying thing, which is what worries me.  It’s like we change style and tactics every time we get  new manager, which is exactly what shouldn’t happen with a DOF.  Which is why I question brands worth. If he’s not good enough get some one better.  If he is good enough let him have free reign.