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Rafael Benitez


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2 hours ago, pete0 said:

“Please – no more X-Liverpool players telling Evertonians how lucky they are to have Benitez at Goodison,” wrote Keys. “No they’re not. Most don’t want him.

“The majority will tolerate him, but they don’t want lectures on how they should be feeling from across Stanley Park.

“It will end in tears. It always does with Benitez.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/richard-keys-benitez-everton-manager-24468189.amp

Yesterday's man, Keys.

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6 hours ago, pete0 said:

“Please – no more X-Liverpool players telling Evertonians how lucky they are to have Benitez at Goodison,” wrote Keys. “No they’re not. Most don’t want him.

“The majority will tolerate him, but they don’t want lectures on how they should be feeling from across Stanley Park.

“It will end in tears. It always does with Benitez.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/richard-keys-benitez-everton-manager-24468189.amp

He’s a knob but I agree. It’s been bad enough other Evertonians telling us how we should feel, let alone them lot!

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Have we created this negative a ti football ourselves?

I honestly have never heard this reputation with Rafa. Not sure where it came from.

Always thought he was a manager that stabilises a team, then progress’s them forward. Most fans from teams he has managed seem to class him as a manager they would have back.

I feel someone has said it in the thread…. And many have rolled with it.

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2 hours ago, Shukes said:

Have we created this negative a ti football ourselves?

I honestly have never heard this reputation with Rafa. Not sure where it came from.

Always thought he was a manager that stabilises a team, then progress’s them forward. Most fans from teams he has managed seem to class him as a manager they would have back.

I feel someone has said it in the thread…. And many have rolled with it.

Newcastle only scored more than 2 goals in a game once under him (against us, more telling about Silva). 

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12 hours ago, Shukes said:

Have we created this negative a ti football ourselves?

I honestly have never heard this reputation with Rafa. Not sure where it came from.

Always thought he was a manager that stabilises a team, then progress’s them forward. Most fans from teams he has managed seem to class him as a manager they would have back.

I feel someone has said it in the thread…. And many have rolled with it.

I think there is definitely an overreaction but that is largely based on his Newcastle side who, at times, were one of the most defensive sides I have seen. Put it this way, Allardyce's West Brom side after only 6 months were playing much better football than Benitez's Newcastle side did despite being there for 3 years. 

Whilst Benitez is clearly a cautious manager looking more at stopping the opposition that exposing the weaknesses of the other team, I have always thought of him as fairly balanced. 

I expect we will see a mid-block, the side will be organised, press cohesively and I certainly don't think we will be a soft touch. 

In the same breath, my recollection of his time at Liverpool and Chelsea is that his sides aren't the most creative. They are balanced and rely a lot on counter attacking opportunities rather than creating overloands and exposing space. 

Now this might remind you of a certain Italian who led us to picking up points in tough games before slipping up in the ones we should win. I don't think Benitez will be much different however here there is no Gerrard screamers or peak Torres to get the side out of a hole. 

The positive with Benitez when compared to Ancellotti is that Benitez has managed average players before. A lot of people were happy with Ancellotti when we were picking up the points at the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea despite the quality of the football on show. I am sure those people will be happy with Rafa. The rest of us will have to wait and see. 

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56 minutes ago, Bailey said:

 

The positive with Benitez when compared to Ancellotti is that Benitez has managed average players before. A lot of people were happy with Ancellotti when we were picking up the points at the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea despite the quality of the football on show. I am sure those people will be happy with Rafa. The rest of us will have to wait and see. 

last season we actually didn't look like much of a 'team' when we where on the pitch. Player swill be clear on what is expected of them with a very clear game plan.

This next couple of seasons I will be happy enough to pick up enough points to get us a european place, or to get some silverware - whether they are picked up against Man U or Burnley. Given what has been going on this past 4-5 seasons, some 'success' will suit me far more than 'nice' football.  

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1 hour ago, RuffRob said:

last season we actually didn't look like much of a 'team' when we where on the pitch. Player swill be clear on what is expected of them with a very clear game plan.

This next couple of seasons I will be happy enough to pick up enough points to get us a european place, or to get some silverware - whether they are picked up against Man U or Burnley. Given what has been going on this past 4-5 seasons, some 'success' will suit me far more than 'nice' football.  

We did against decent sides because the game plan was easy. Defend, sit in your banks of four and try and win a set piece.

When we had to try and play, we were all over the place. 

To win a cup or to qualify for Europe we will have to play decent football. Like last season, crap football will catch up with you. 

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7 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

I do agree that a strong defense usually beats a strong offense, so there's wisdom in building a team from the back. On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of playing not to lose versus playing to win. My concern is that the former will become the latter.

I hope not many of us are happy just playing not to lose but I understand what you’re getting at, I’m hopeful that once he is happy with his defence he can look to play more expansive football. Having said that I thought that once Ancelotti sorted the defence out which he did we would play more attacking football, but we still played a lot of negative football. 

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10 hours ago, Bailey said:

We did against decent sides because the game plan was easy. Defend, sit in your banks of four and try and win a set piece.

When we had to try and play, we were all over the place. 

To win a cup or to qualify for Europe we will have to play decent football. Like last season, crap football will catch up with you. 

There is a difference between 'crap' football and 'effective' football. We obviously have have a decent base as a defensive unit, given the highlight of last year. So Benitez has a good starting point to work from in that front. He should be able to at least equal Ancelotti in performances against the big teams (although we will have to take the fact that fans will be allowed back in the ground next year - so I don't expect us 9or any other teams) to win nearly so many away games)

I fully agree we where shocking last year when we needed to play - it was as bad as anything I have seen, and not a great advert for Ancelotti as a 'coach' to be honest - we just looked so slow with everything, easy to defend against. I think Benitez will have more 'ideas' and structure to what he wants of us doing going forward - taking in to consideration the constraints or limitations of the player he will have at his disposal.  I think Ancelotti is just so use to having world class offensive players, who 'just play' that he seem to struggle with a group of offensive player that just need a little more direction and system as a team when in possession. (I may be too harsh as we did seem to have a lot of injuries that disrupted a consistent formation). Good man management, or just fielding your favourite players in the hope they will come back in to form seem to only go so far! I think Benitez will be more inclined to just bench those out of form or seen not putting the required minimum effort in. 

I will take entertaining football over effective football any day of the week, as long as it does bring the results needed with it, but over the next couple of season I will satisfied with improvement in the results department in the first instance. Bonus if entertaining as well. 

I know what you are saying about decent football tends to go hand in hand with winning football, in the upper echelons that's very true. But given the money spent we have been served up poor football and mid table results. I will take effective (even if a little dull at times) winning football for the next couple of seasons if it makes us more competitive. More flair can be added if we start rubbing shoulder in the top 6. 

Benitez has managed to bring success to teams in similar positions to us, so his football has been proven on a number of occasions to be 'effective' given the resources at his disposal. As he is now here, he is definitely worth getting behind and giving a fair crack at the whip over the next couple of seasons. 

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It will be very interesting to see the players Rafa is linked with.

Has he ever been at a club that really backed him with money?  I'm thinking Liverpool he was...... Some great signings.... Alonso, Torres, Maschereano...... Some crap ..... Aquilani.

He signed Koulibaily for Napoli.... £6.5m, Jorginho and dries mertens for about £8m apiece .....

 

Optimistic

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34 minutes ago, Tonsta said:

Maybe we will hear something  in 48 hours?

I think it is going to be a funny transfer market - We don't really yet know what the going rate for players is going to be. Might get to the last couple of week in August, as teams (including us) might be so desperate to move some players on - you will be able to get some good quality for free.

Have been, reading Barca have to get a fair few players off the books just to pay the free transfers they have bought in to the club. Definitely going to be a strange one. I don't think we know who is able to spend what. 

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2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

It will be very interesting to see the players Rafa is linked with.

Has he ever been at a club that really backed him with money?  I'm thinking Liverpool he was...... Some great signings.... Alonso, Torres, Maschereano...... Some crap ..... Aquilani.

He signed Koulibaily for Napoli.... £6.5m, Jorginho and dries mertens for about £8m apiece .....

 

Optimistic

Very rare for managers to be involved in transfers in Italy. More likely the director of football picked them.

More miss than hit at Liverpool and Newcastle. Wouldn't include Alonso considering Rafa wanted rid of him. Didn't know how use a classy player and wanted him replaced with Barry. Better manager would have wanted both. 

He'd rather a hard worker play out of position like Kuyt than manage a better player to work harder.

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3 hours ago, RuffRob said:

There is a difference between 'crap' football and 'effective' football. We obviously have have a decent base as a defensive unit, given the highlight of last year. So Benitez has a good starting point to work from in that front. He should be able to at least equal Ancelotti in performances against the big teams (although we will have to take the fact that fans will be allowed back in the ground next year - so I don't expect us 9or any other teams) to win nearly so many away games)

I fully agree we where shocking last year when we needed to play - it was as bad as anything I have seen, and not a great advert for Ancelotti as a 'coach' to be honest - we just looked so slow with everything, easy to defend against. I think Benitez will have more 'ideas' and structure to what he wants of us doing going forward - taking in to consideration the constraints or limitations of the player he will have at his disposal.  I think Ancelotti is just so use to having world class offensive players, who 'just play' that he seem to struggle with a group of offensive player that just need a little more direction and system as a team when in possession. (I may be too harsh as we did seem to have a lot of injuries that disrupted a consistent formation). Good man management, or just fielding your favourite players in the hope they will come back in to form seem to only go so far! I think Benitez will be more inclined to just bench those out of form or seen not putting the required minimum effort in. 

I will take entertaining football over effective football any day of the week, as long as it does bring the results needed with it, but over the next couple of season I will satisfied with improvement in the results department in the first instance. Bonus if entertaining as well. 

I know what you are saying about decent football tends to go hand in hand with winning football, in the upper echelons that's very true. But given the money spent we have been served up poor football and mid table results. I will take effective (even if a little dull at times) winning football for the next couple of seasons if it makes us more competitive. More flair can be added if we start rubbing shoulder in the top 6. 

Benitez has managed to bring success to teams in similar positions to us, so his football has been proven on a number of occasions to be 'effective' given the resources at his disposal. As he is now here, he is definitely worth getting behind and giving a fair crack at the whip over the next couple of seasons. 

I do think there will be more structure in our attack under Benitez but that also stifles creativity. As an example, I don't really ever remember a Benitez side playing with width high up the pitch. I can see him playing with front three akin to that of Tuchel at Chelsea which is great at winning the ball back (because of the numbers in central positions) but will run into trouble against packed defences when they aren't able to stretch the game using the wing backs.

I really do not know what to have made of Ancellotti. I cannot describe how disappointed I am to have had one of the most heralded managers in the game come to the club and play some of the worst football I have seen. I really do not know what went on here during his time. I do think Benitez will be more adaptable, but don't forget he is known to rotate a lot too. I guess that will depend on how far we get in certain competitions though.

I do agree with your last three paragraphs although I won't be expecting Benitez flair any time soon!

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13 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Very rare for managers to be involved in transfers in Italy. More likely the director of football picked them.

More miss than hit at Liverpool and Newcastle. Wouldn't include Alonso considering Rafa wanted rid of him. Didn't know how use a classy player and wanted him replaced with Barry. Better manager would have wanted both. 

He'd rather a hard worker play out of position like Kuyt than manage a better player to work harder.

The Barry / Alonso thing is a weird one.

It is a bit unclear about exactly what he wanted but if he wanted Alonso and Barry together it would have been a good move (albeit slow!). Somehow that ended up as pissing off Alonso, him leaving and Barry not joining. They then signed Aquilani to replace him which didn't work, albeit it sounds like he was unlucky with injuries.

My biggest concern with Rafa is that whilst he has signed some good players in his time, he has also bought a lot of very average players for decent enough money. I hope that Brands has more control however given that Benitez is clearly Mohsiri's man you could just see him going over the head of Brands and sanctioning the players Benitez wants.

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11 hours ago, Bailey said:

The Barry / Alonso thing is a weird one.

It is a bit unclear about exactly what he wanted but if he wanted Alonso and Barry together it would have been a good move (albeit slow!). Somehow that ended up as pissing off Alonso, him leaving and Barry not joining. They then signed Aquilani to replace him which didn't work, albeit it sounds like he was unlucky with injuries.

My biggest concern with Rafa is that whilst he has signed some good players in his time, he has also bought a lot of very average players for decent enough money. I hope that Brands has more control however given that Benitez is clearly Mohsiri's man you could just see him going over the head of Brands and sanctioning the players Benitez wants.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/jamie-carragher-xabi-alonso-left-liverpool-real-madrid-rafa-benitez-a7624431.html%3famp

Rafa's intention was to off-load Xabi for £30million and buy Barry for half that price. The appeal of Barry was that he was English and could play in two or three positions. But, believe it or not, only Juventus and Arsenal were keen to take Xabi.

“When it became clear those interested in Xabi were only prepared to pay £15m — and Aston Villa wanted £30m for Barry — the club pulled the plug.”

 

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17 hours ago, pete0 said:

Very rare for managers to be involved in transfers in Italy. More likely the director of football picked them.

More miss than hit at Liverpool and Newcastle. Wouldn't include Alonso considering Rafa wanted rid of him. Didn't know how use a classy player and wanted him replaced with Barry. Better manager would have wanted both. 

He'd rather a hard worker play out of position like Kuyt than manage a better player to work harder.

Benitez apparently wanted to sell Alonso because he wanted to be with his wife for the birth of their child...... Which is pretty consistent with how many view his man management.  Pretty appalling btw but non the less it's a far cry from the indulging managers we've had.

Barry was a very similar player to Alonso - not as good. So it was smart recruitment albeit it in an unsavoury manner. 

He was in charge of player recruitment at Napoli.... In fact at all his clubs he likes tight control of this.  He also bought Allan, Higuain and some other great signings.

I honestly think his abrasive but hard working style is needed here.  I really want him to work out because he is exactly what this club needs.  I sensed his aggitation at the circus when being rolled out as Everton manager....  I honestly think he is on the autistic spectrum, not severely but he has traits which point to his cold personality and obsessive nature.  

Players always try and work a new manager out.... There really is no point with this fella, he only cares about what happens on the pitch. I'm looking forward to it. Easy Touch FC no more. 

 

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56 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

I honestly think his abrasive but hard working style is needed here.  I really want him to work out because he is exactly what this club needs. 

Players always try and work a new manager out.... There really is no point with this fella, he only cares about what happens on the pitch. I'm looking forward to it. Easy Touch FC no more. 

 

Totally agree with this - some kind of accountability has been long overdue. Really looking forward to seeing the dummies, in both senses, being spat out. 

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6 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Benitez apparently wanted to sell Alonso because he wanted to be with his wife for the birth of their child...... Which is pretty consistent with how many view his man management.  Pretty appalling btw but non the less it's a far cry from the indulging managers we've had.

Barry was a very similar player to Alonso - not as good. So it was smart recruitment albeit it in an unsavoury manner. 

He was in charge of player recruitment at Napoli.... In fact at all his clubs he likes tight control of this.  He also bought Allan, Higuain and some other great signings.

I honestly think his abrasive but hard working style is needed here.  I really want him to work out because he is exactly what this club needs.  I sensed his aggitation at the circus when being rolled out as Everton manager....  I honestly think he is on the autistic spectrum, not severely but he has traits which point to his cold personality and obsessive nature.  

Players always try and work a new manager out.... There really is no point with this fella, he only cares about what happens on the pitch. I'm looking forward to it. Easy Touch FC no more. 

 

Interesting to see how this jives with Brands. Not disagreeing with your observation at all, just will be interesting to see how this evolves.

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4 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

Interesting to see how this jives with Brands. Not disagreeing with your observation at all, just will be interesting to see how this evolves.

Personally I don’t think it matters what Brands might think about Benitez role on player recruitment. 

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The more I think about this appointment (now I have calmed down), the more it makes sense. What we have had before are a series of managers all with their own style of play needing different players.

With Benitez we have some consistency in that like Carlo he is a defensive minded coach, their teams play a similar style of football requiring similar types of players, so no need for a massive squad over hall.

Both managers have had success, and managed large clubs, and big name players. Yes Carlo has had way more success, but both are similar in the way their teams operate.

Benitez is a workaholic and wont be tempted away if a bigger club come calling. He will install discipline and demand the best out of the players. Tactically he is no mug, and knows how to get results.

The only concern I have is over transfers, but I think that will of been sorted out before he signed. 

I am more optimistic now that I was when Carlo left, and if I am honest more optimistic now than I was under the last few months under Carlo. 

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4 minutes ago, Aidan said:

I would have said the exact same about Carlo when he signed.

I think its less likely as Benitez has family with deep roots in the area, Carlo had nothing to tie him to the club, or the area.

Plus Benitez has walked through a shit storm to take this job, he really must want to manage us.

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