Matt Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 Nealry all wingers are inconsistent. Being consistently creative isn't realistic and a lot of it depends on players around that player seeing the opportunities too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patto Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 On 27/05/2022 at 07:21, c1982 said: Sell Gray - sign Sarr from Watford off the back of a poor season - I think he’s class and could be the right time to swoop. He’s still living off a couple of goals against Liverpool I think it was. done nothing last season why I wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 6 hours ago, patto said: He’s still living off a couple of goals against Liverpool I think it was. done nothing last season why I wonder. I personally rate him very highly - think he’s got a lot more than Gray and that was my point - he had a poor season so his stock will be low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 8 hours ago, Matt said: Nealry all wingers are inconsistent. Being consistently creative isn't realistic and a lot of it depends on players around that player seeing the opportunities too. He just needs to play the ball occasionally when the fullback overlaps and he will improve no doubt StevO and Sibdane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted June 27, 2022 Report Share Posted June 27, 2022 16 hours ago, Matt said: Nealry all wingers are inconsistent. Being consistently creative isn't realistic and a lot of it depends on players around that player seeing the opportunities too. Exactly. I’m always saying stats are misleading for this reason. You only get an assist if your recipient puts the ball away. You could set up a chance on a plate gift wrapped, but if the forward miss’s….. you don’t get an assist. This is why players in Bayerns team look like assist machines, after struggling in the premier league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 27, 2022 Report Share Posted June 27, 2022 11 hours ago, Btay said: He just needs to play the ball occasionally when the fullback overlaps and he will improve no doubt He was also playing with a manager who told his fullbacks to not advance. Under Frank he may get that overlap more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted June 27, 2022 Report Share Posted June 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Matt said: He was also playing with a manager who told his fullbacks to not advance. Under Frank he may get that overlap more often. Agree to a point. Towards the end of last season Myko bombed on nicely into go areas but Gray never looks like playing the ball. He has all the talent required, I just think as a team we would be more creative if he made that pass every now and then. No issue with him cutting in for the shot just not every time like he was doing last season after that arsenal goal. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 27, 2022 Report Share Posted June 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, Btay said: Agree to a point. Towards the end of last season Myko bombed on nicely into go areas but Gray never looks like playing the ball. He has all the talent required, I just think as a team we would be more creative if he made that pass every now and then. No issue with him cutting in for the shot just not every time like he was doing last season after that arsenal goal. Not saying he can't improve but he was coming back from injury into a team with a new manager and devoid of morale. Put it this way; I believe the DM we had before his injury was vital to the points we got and is a real pain for defenders. If Richarlison goes, we don't have anyone else as direct as him. He will learn and can be coached to release the ball now that we go into the season without the immediate threat of relegation hanging over our heads, something that I imagine made him want to be selfish because he can and does score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted June 27, 2022 Report Share Posted June 27, 2022 Didn’t some stay say he has 9 assists last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted June 27, 2022 Report Share Posted June 27, 2022 I feel like Gray's value is only going down. He was the main man for Benitez but has been crap since Lampard came in, showing all the frustrating traits he has shown throughout his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 27, 2022 Report Share Posted June 27, 2022 43 minutes ago, Bailey said: I feel like Gray's value is only going down. He was the main man for Benitez but has been crap since Lampard came in, showing all the frustrating traits he has shown throughout his career. He was only bought for less than £2m, if he’s worth less than that now we’ve got a massive problem. Shukes, Matt and Palfy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted June 27, 2022 Report Share Posted June 27, 2022 2 hours ago, StevO said: He was only bought for less than £2m, if he’s worth less than that now we’ve got a massive problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 27, 2022 Report Share Posted June 27, 2022 3 hours ago, Bailey said: I feel like Gray's value is only going down. He was the main man for Benitez but has been crap since Lampard came in, showing all the frustrating traits he has shown throughout his career. Can only repeat what I said earlier in response to this. Nearly all the club looked crap when Frank took over, don't think it's fair to judge anyone considering the state we were in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted June 28, 2022 Report Share Posted June 28, 2022 14 hours ago, StevO said: He was only bought for less than £2m, if he’s worth less than that now we’ve got a massive problem. You know what I mean! 11 hours ago, Matt said: Can only repeat what I said earlier in response to this. Nearly all the club looked crap when Frank took over, don't think it's fair to judge anyone considering the state we were in. Also true. I just dont see things working out as well for him as they did with Rafa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 On 27/05/2022 at 07:21, c1982 said: Sell Gray - sign Sarr from Watford off the back of a poor season - I think he’s class and could be the right time to swoop. A lot of Sarr talk now… sadly to potentially replace Gordon rather than Gray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 25 minutes ago, c1982 said: A lot of Sarr talk now… sadly to potentially replace Gordon rather than Gray. It worries me that I’d have been happy with Dennis, I quite like Sarr and I really like Joao Pedro. Did Watford really have a decent front three or has my head gone? I know it’s late and I’ve had a busy few days, but I can’t process it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 20, 2022 Report Share Posted August 20, 2022 Great run, sublime control and quality finish. This is why I don't want him to go, he comes up with moments of brilliance that get us points. Formby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 20, 2022 Report Share Posted August 20, 2022 It was a good run and really good finish but no team should be allowing goals to be scored as easily as that. He served up so much crap and waste before that it was driving me insane, however he is more of a goal threat than Gordon. His set piece delivery is a bit underrated too. Matt, Formby and Sibdane 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodison Glory Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 On 17/08/2022 at 06:26, c1982 said: A lot of Sarr talk now… sadly to potentially replace Gordon rather than Gray. Villa agreed fee for Sarr apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 22 hours ago, Matt said: Great run, sublime control and quality finish. This is why I don't want him to go, he comes up with moments of brilliance that get us points. Absolutely this. See jinking run that set up the equaliser against Palace last season and the dead ball delivery for DCL's winner. When he breaks from midfield, he can be a real asset. I still don't think he's being used properly. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 On 16/08/2022 at 23:26, c1982 said: A lot of Sarr talk now… sadly to potentially replace Gordon rather than Gray. I would sell Gordon in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 Strange one with Gray. He had shots before his goal. Put in dangerous free kicks and corners. Was direct, pacy and dangerous. Had an end product. But fans don’t seem to like him. Yet Gordon try’s the same, with less success, and fans love him as he’s trying so hard. KinL, Formby, Matt and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 We need him to step up and be consistently good. Drifts in and out of games far too often. He has all the ability to be a very, very good player - it’s time it all clicked together though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Btay said: We need him to step up and be consistently good. Drifts in and out of games far too often. He has all the ability to be a very, very good player - it’s time it all clicked together though. He's a winger though, so consistency is never going to happen. I hope he gets a run and plays like he did preinjury last season. There's certainly a dangerous player there. Formby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad all over Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Btay said: We need him to step up and be consistently good. Drifts in and out of games far too often. He has all the ability to be a very, very good player - it’s time it all clicked together though. We've got a good player in Iwobi now and he went through some intense dislike from fans, so it is possible to turn it round. Matt, KinL and Formby 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodison Glory Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Shukes said: Strange one with Gray. He had shots before his goal. Put in dangerous free kicks and corners. Was direct, pacy and dangerous. Had an end product. But fans don’t seem to like him. Yet Gordon try’s the same, with less success, and fans love him as he’s trying so hard. You've got a point. I'll admit, I'm a Demari hater (strong word, but I literally hate watching him play...seems so selfish) So I checked his passing stats hoping to tell you that he was the greedy bastard we know him to be, but you know what....Gordon is worse (avg passes per game, key passes per game, crosses per game etc)...I couldn't find one stat in the passing area where Gordon was better. Shukes and Gwlad all over 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, Goodison Glory said: You've got a point. I'll admit, I'm a Demari hater (strong word, but I literally hate watching him play...seems so selfish) So I checked his passing stats hoping to tell you that he was the greedy bastard we know him to be, but you know what....Gordon is worse (avg passes per game, key passes per game, crosses per game etc)...I couldn't find one stat in the passing area where Gordon was better. Honest of you. What I do find with Gray, is that he tries the more penetrating passes as well. And due to this, we remember that final ball much more. But the final ball is the single most difficult pass to make in all the game. Formby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 I like Gray, I think he is a very good player, very underrated. Matt, Formby and KinL 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 His style of play is just frustrating but when it comes off it’s brilliant. That’s what you get with wingers like him. He’s going to take his man on and be selfish from time-to-time, but we also need that to stretch defenses. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosse Captain Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 Frustrating to watch but you can see he does have the ability to do something special. Doing it consistently is the problem. He's lightning quick, very skilful, would like him to be more direct. Head down, and attack the defender every time. Seems to cut in a lot into traffic. Romey 1878, Sibdane, Matt and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 7 hours ago, Matt said: He's a winger though, so consistency is never going to happen. I hope he gets a run and plays like he did preinjury last season. There's certainly a dangerous player there. That’s my point though - 1 goal in 20 something games isn’t good enough for a player of his ability. We need him to be at his best. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 I imagine some of the posts in this thread will have been a bit different if he hadn't have scored at the end. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bailey said: I imagine some of the posts in this thread will have been a bit different if he hadn't have scored at the end. No doubt. I’m guilty of it. But that’s the thing. He did score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRob Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 I think Grey has it well within him to get +7 goal a season, and at the moment every goal counts. He is a player who sometimes can come up with a goal out of nothing, and these are players we have been lacking in recent years. So I am happy to have him around the squad. These is definately room for improvement but he has the basics of speed and skill, add some improved decision making; with will be on the coaching team to get out of him; and he could be capable of doing good things in a blue shirt. Especially given his actual cost. KinL, Matt and Sibdane 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, RuffRob said: I think Grey has it well within him to get +7 goal a season, and at the moment every goal counts. He is a player who sometimes can come up with a goal out of nothing, and these are players we have been lacking in recent years. So I am happy to have him around the squad. These is definately room for improvement but he has the basics of speed and skill, add some improved decision making; with will be on the coaching team to get out of him; and he could be capable of doing good things in a blue shirt. Especially given his actual cost. Both wingers need to be contributing minimum 10 goals a season each if they are playing 35/38 games a season. If gray scored 3 goals and got 15 assists it would be a great return. Gordon has potential but isn’t providing a great return for goals/assists so Gray unfortunately as our senior winger needs to up his level. Took his goal very well on the weekend, made a similar run last week against Villa which Iwobi nearly found him. I have no doubt he can do it and I really hope this is start of a productive period for him. chicagoblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 Both Gordon and Gray desperate for a striker to play off at this moment in time. I think their normal selfishness has stepped up a gear and they're trying too hard. Especially Gordon, I felt the Chelsea links got to him in one way or another. RuffRob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 22, 2022 Report Share Posted August 22, 2022 17 hours ago, Btay said: That’s my point though - 1 goal in 20 something games isn’t good enough for a player of his ability. We need him to be at his best. Are you looking at the last 20 games where he was coming back from injury, sub appearances, shitshow of a team? I'm looking at his first 4 months or so when he was fit and we were a complete disaster. That's the player we've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 22, 2022 Report Share Posted August 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Matt said: Are you looking at the last 20 games where he was coming back from injury, sub appearances, shitshow of a team? I'm looking at his first 4 months or so when he was fit and we were a complete disaster. That's the player we've got. He was a key player for Benitez at that time and the Spaniard definitely got the best out of him. I really wouldnt expect that to continue. He has returned to his usual level of form shown at previous clubs. He also has a habit of doing well early on and then drifting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 22, 2022 Report Share Posted August 22, 2022 17 minutes ago, Bailey said: He was a key player for Benitez at that time and the Spaniard definitely got the best out of him. I really wouldnt expect that to continue. He has returned to his usual level of form shown at previous clubs. He also has a habit of doing well early on and then drifting. Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 22, 2022 Report Share Posted August 22, 2022 I’ll take saturdays performance any day from him. Frustrating yes, but dangerous, yes! Matt, Fosse Captain, RuffRob and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RuffRob Posted August 22, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 22, 2022 21 minutes ago, Shukes said: I’ll take saturdays performance any day from him. Frustrating yes, but dangerous, yes! Took his goal well, and it will do his confidence the world of good, did very well before he got injured last season. Less than £2m and has already done more in a blue shirt than plenty who have come in our recent history for +£20m. Matt, dunlopp9987, chicagoblue and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 22, 2022 Report Share Posted August 22, 2022 4 hours ago, Matt said: Why not? Because a lot has changed since then combined with his past history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted August 22, 2022 Report Share Posted August 22, 2022 7 hours ago, Matt said: Are you looking at the last 20 games where he was coming back from injury, sub appearances, shitshow of a team? I'm looking at his first 4 months or so when he was fit and we were a complete disaster. That's the player we've got. Just in general mate, 20 appearances isn’t a come back from injury. He was poor, along with the team but individual performances are what contributed to an overall poor team performance. I agree with you, I hope he returns to that pre injury form & consistency. He has all the ability for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 22, 2022 Report Share Posted August 22, 2022 24 minutes ago, Bailey said: Because a lot has changed since then combined with his past history. By that token, he may have found exactly what he needed then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 22, 2022 Report Share Posted August 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Btay said: Just in general mate, 20 appearances isn’t a come back from injury. He was poor, along with the team but individual performances are what contributed to an overall poor team performance. I agree with you, I hope he returns to that pre injury form & consistency. He has all the ability for it. He was in and out after his injury, didn't get a solid run from memory. Minutes on the pitch is what he needs, I think he'd shine given that chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted August 22, 2022 Report Share Posted August 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, Matt said: He was in and out after his injury, didn't get a solid run from memory. Minutes on the pitch is what he needs, I think he'd shine given that chance. Hope so, we need him that’s for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted August 23, 2022 Report Share Posted August 23, 2022 6 hours ago, Matt said: He was in and out after his injury, didn't get a solid run from memory. Minutes on the pitch is what he needs, I think he'd shine given that chance. You are right Lampard didn’t start him as much as Rafa, whether that was a fitness issue or a tactical decision I don’t know, but he is a player who will benefit the team more if he gets a good run he excels when his confidence is at it’s highest and can only achieve that with regular game time imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 23, 2022 Report Share Posted August 23, 2022 15 hours ago, Matt said: By that token, he may have found exactly what he needed then. Ever the optimist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 23, 2022 Report Share Posted August 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Bailey said: Ever the optimist! Usually! Last season was the only time I wasn't I think. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2022 Took his goal very well again tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyBlue Posted August 24, 2022 Report Share Posted August 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said: Took his goal very well again tonight. Probably the best finisher we have at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dunlopp9987 Posted August 24, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 24, 2022 Just now, SpartyBlue said: Probably the best finisher we have at the moment. He's the only finisher we have at the moment! Unless you count Digne in there too plaidharper, Matt, Bailey and 2 others 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyBlue Posted October 2, 2022 Report Share Posted October 2, 2022 Our squad will be a lot better when guys like Gray and McNeil aren’t starting. They have the ability to win a match but are too anonymous too often. Gray in particular was very poor yesterday. Too often there is a simple pass that would further our attack and he instead tries to do a trick or beat two men. He strikes me as a player who is trying to be a star rather than just playing good, effective football and letting those moments of individual skill happen more naturally. Goodison Glory, Bill, plaidharper and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 4, 2022 Report Share Posted October 4, 2022 On 02/10/2022 at 15:06, SpartyBlue said: Our squad will be a lot better when guys like Gray and McNeil aren’t starting. They have the ability to win a match but are too anonymous too often. Gray in particular was very poor yesterday. Too often there is a simple pass that would further our attack and he instead tries to do a trick or beat two men. He strikes me as a player who is trying to be a star rather than just playing good, effective football and letting those moments of individual skill happen more naturally. Yep, needs to pass the ball the majority of the time, but takes a shot instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badaids Posted October 4, 2022 Report Share Posted October 4, 2022 Glad to see he's signed an extension. He's doing alright this lad. Best dribbler at the club and a nuisance for the opposition quite a lot of the time. Downsides: Mykolenko seem to be invisible to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 4, 2022 Report Share Posted October 4, 2022 51 minutes ago, badaids said: Glad to see he's signed an extension. He's doing alright this lad. Best dribbler at the club and a nuisance for the opposition quite a lot of the time. Downsides: Mykolenko seem to be invisible to him. Everyone is invisible to him. plaidharper, Bailey, Romey 1878 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 7, 2022 Report Share Posted October 7, 2022 He has his moments but it would be great if we could sell him for a decent fee in the summer and re-invest that money in someone with more quality and less selfishness. I guess it would be him or Gordon though and not both. London Blue and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2022 When did this extension of his contract happen by the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 7, 2022 Report Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Bailey said: He has his moments but it would be great if we could sell him for a decent fee in the summer and re-invest that money in someone with more quality and less selfishness. I guess it would be him or Gordon though and not both. I don't understand any of this. One of our most threatening and productive players you want to sell? Madness. London Blue and Formby 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 7, 2022 Report Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Matt said: I don't understand any of this. One of our most threatening and productive players you want to sell? Madness. Threatening yes but productive no. A player with his talent should be scoring and creating more chances for others. He pisses up more good opportunities than anyone else. He only has 1 goal or assist to his name this season. His underlying stats are ok compared to similar player but we know from Gray that he underperforms rather than over-achieves. The way I see it is that it is healthy for us to sell a player every season for the books and to freshen up the squad a bit. The two players we have that we could sell at the top of their value to do that which we could replace their output fairly easily are Gray and Gordon. If we dont sell Gray by next summer, I think his value will go down whereas Gordon's has more chance of going up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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