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Ifs, buts and Maybes


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Gomes is a real problem, I think. It's not that he's a bad player, but he's meant for the European leagues and not the Premier League. His almost casual nature flows to the rest of the team, and the levels of energy and urgency just drop. Yes, I am being a little unfair - at the start of the move that led to our goal at Newcastle, he's the player on the left battling for the ball before it goes to the middle and is won by Coleman - but it's more a matter of style and mentality than anything else.

Once again, it reveals the importance of midfield: everything hinges on that - which must be why Lampard made late moves for van de Beek and Alli. For the next two games, we need a replacement for Allan who's just as determined and uncompromising. Maybe it's van de Beek or maybe it's not. Can Gordon translate his attitude to that role? For sure, it's not Gomes.

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25 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Gomes is a real problem, I think. It's not that he's a bad player, but he's meant for the European leagues and not the Premier League. His almost casual nature flows to the rest of the team, and the levels of energy and urgency just drop. Yes, I am being a little unfair - at the start of the move that led to our goal at Newcastle, he's the player on the left battling for the ball before it goes to the middle and is won by Coleman - but it's more a matter of style and mentality than anything else.

Once again, it reveals the importance of midfield: everything hinges on that - which must be why Lampard made late moves for van de Beek and Alli. For the next two games, we need a replacement for Allan who's just as determined and uncompromising. Maybe it's van de Beek or maybe it's not. Can Gordon translate his attitude to that role? For sure, it's not Gomes.

talent wise he's exceptionally good.  He was bought by Barcelona - you don't get an expensive transfer like that without ability.

I've seen him play his best football for us coming back from injury or when completely unfit.  Its in his head or heart, whichever organ it is that makes him  not bother.

 

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2 hours ago, RPG said:

West Ham away first. It would be so Everton to win at West Ham and then get thrashed at Burnley. And I'd probably take that right now if it was offered.

3 points from 2 away games in 4 days. Need everyone be reminded of our away form this season. Absolutely we'd take that. Hell I'd take 2 points. 

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On 21/03/2022 at 23:54, Hafnia said:

talent wise he's exceptionally good.  He was bought by Barcelona - you don't get an expensive transfer like that without ability.

I've seen him play his best football for us coming back from injury or when completely unfit.  Its in his head or heart, whichever organ it is that makes him  not bother.

 

This mentality is half our problem though. These clubs don’t sell players that are good enough for them - we need to stop taking the excess off the teams we (were) trying to reach the level of and go after the players they replace them with ( before they reach that level ).

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Just now, Btay said:

This mentality is half our problem though. These clubs don’t sell players that are good enough for them - we need to stop taking the excess off the teams we (were) trying to reach the level of and go after the players they replace them with ( before they reach that level ).

Pienaar, arteta, Howard, Neville are exceptions to that rule.  
 

the difference is whether they have the right character. We bought tosun gylfi and Keane and they have arguably been two of the worst signings in recent years

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6 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Pienaar, arteta, Howard, Neville are exceptions to that rule.  
 

the difference is whether they have the right character. We bought tosun gylfi and Keane and they have arguably been two of the worst signings in recent years

See what your saying but I don’t think we have been remotely proactive enough with scouting.

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

Out of curiosity @Hafnia why did you think the bollocks comment was towards Gomes? Personally I thought it was aimed at the whole team but interested in why you thought it was aimed at him. 

 

I said the bollocks comment was aimed at the players

I also said allowing opponents to stroll in the box was Gomes - "I guess". although I am sure there were others who did it with less consequence.

Gomes was dropped/sick after his Southampton performance and I imagine that if lampard can find a suitable replacement he will be sick again.

 

On 20/03/2022 at 18:04, Hafnia said:

 

gloves are off and he’s spot on.  The bollocks he refers to is him basically calling the players gutless cowards…. Referred to allowing opponents to stroll in the box, Gomes I guess. 

He’s had enough of this shower.   Let’s hope we manage to stay up, I think he is going to have some fun with a big red pen going through players names.

he’s right about tactics…. The first 15 showed that the set up was good enough, what wasn’t good enough is the players ability to concentrate and apply themselves for any longer than that. 

 

 

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Gomes has been terrible since he came back from injury, but it hasn’t always been like that.

When he arrived on loan he was amazing - I remember loads of games when his ability to retain and carry the ball with 2 or 3 thugs beating on him was incredible. He didn’t play like Fellaini, but his effect on the ball was the same. For a while, Spurs were going to rob us off him.

Whats happened to Gomes - apart from injuries - is that he’s been ground down, like so many other players have. To the point where it looks like he probably dreads even pulling on a shirt. It’s a symptom of the wider sickness at the club, and it’s the thing that really needs sorting out.

As for the thread title - we ain’t getting 40 points. We might 35 or 37 and it should hopefully be enough.

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24 minutes ago, badaids said:

Gomes has been terrible since he came back from injury, but it hasn’t always been like that.

When he arrived on loan he was amazing - I remember loads of games when his ability to retain and carry the ball with 2 or 3 thugs beating on him was incredible. He didn’t play like Fellaini, but his effect on the ball was the same. For a while, Spurs were going to rob us off him.

Whats happened to Gomes - apart from injuries - is that he’s been ground down, like so many other players have. To the point where it looks like he probably dreads even pulling on a shirt. It’s a symptom of the wider sickness at the club, and it’s the thing that really needs sorting out.

As for the thread title - we ain’t getting 40 points. We might 35 or 37 and it should hopefully be enough.

I was an absolute Gomes fan when he first arrived, he looked immense in his first game against Man United and in many other games in the load period he was sensational.  The truth is that even in his loan period he had really bad dips - like night and day difference.  I was all for buying him but I was very cautious and I think I referred to him as bit of a Ross Barkley.... loads of talent but seriously inconsistent.

The injury from Son was not a career changer, it was a clean injury and his recovery was quite swift.  He came back and despite no match fitness looked very very good... yet when he got match fitness he became crap again.

In many ways he is like Dele Alli... if you can get the fire burning inside him and get him psychologically up for it he can play.... but he cant.

Imagine if he had Jordan Hendersons mentality?

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Gomes — I’ve supported him consistently, because he’s superb at ball control, usually a dependable passer, sometimes a brilliant passer.  But he’s way too slow to defend.  I don’t think it’s effort.  Opponents run past him, so we’re lucky if he doesn’t pick up a yellow in the first half.  He can only play well in the middle 50-60% of the pitch.

Especially with Allan out, Gomes cannot play in a 2-man midfield.  Has to be 3 in midfield, playing through Gomes as an ACM, but not depending on him to be a DCM.

Getting to 35 — Virtually no chance to get to 40, so it’s good news we won’t need to.  But it’s bad news we need to get to 35.

Biggest matches are away to Watford and Burnley, home to Brentford, Palace, Leicester.  If we lose to Burnley and Watford, just can’t see us staying up.  If we draw both of those, still very difficult, so we need 4 points from those 2 matches.

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Maybe Gomes was so good because he had Gueye - the extremely well paid recruitment team probably should have seen this and recruited accordingly when the opportunity was there. In reality, we sold Gueye and bought Gomes, Gbamin and Delph in the same window - I actually think that window is on par with the Gylfi, Keane, Sandro splurge for getting us in this mess. If we’d got the 3 midfield signings right (plus Iwobi and Kean) then maybe we’d have fixed some of the Koeman damage.

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My biggest worry is still having two games to fit into the schedule. On two occasions in February the premier league rearranged a bunch of fixtures, and didn’t include us. Now I don’t see where they can fit it in without making us play three games in five days. 

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16 minutes ago, StevO said:

My biggest worry is still having two games to fit into the schedule. On two occasions in February the premier league rearranged a bunch of fixtures, and didn’t include us. Now I don’t see where they can fit it in without making us play three games in five days. 

Well we now have a spare Saturday the weekend of the semi-finals because we were due to play Palace at home then 

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An international break isn't good. More time to focus on our dire position than try to be optimistic (?) for the upcoming game. I really don't think we can count on 100% effort from Richi or Dom, likely  want to be off in the summer. Pickford too but I think he will do his best. Those out of contract/loan won't give a shit which leaves it on the shoulders of Gordon, Godfrey, Gray, Branthwaite and hopefully Patterson gets a chance after the Scotland game. Allan and Doucs blow hot and cold. Mina a sicknote, Vitaliiy head understandably elsewhere. Coleman, Keane, Holgate and Kenny found wanting. Sorry state of affairs.

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2 hours ago, Gwlad all over said:

An international break isn't good. More time to focus on our dire position than try to be optimistic (?) for the upcoming game. I really don't think we can count on 100% effort from Richi or Dom, likely  want to be off in the summer. Pickford too but I think he will do his best. Those out of contract/loan won't give a shit which leaves it on the shoulders of Gordon, Godfrey, Gray, Branthwaite and hopefully Patterson gets a chance after the Scotland game. Allan and Doucs blow hot and cold. Mina a sicknote, Vitaliiy head understandably elsewhere. Coleman, Keane, Holgate and Kenny found wanting. Sorry state of affairs.

Or its 2 weeks to get a shrink in, do basic drills and a lot of stamina building. You can do a lot in 2 week, just need to focus on the right things. Mentality, basics, engine. That's the foundation that needs rebuilding. 

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For about 8 days I mostly forgot about our situation. Now it's all I can think about again. We haven't won a league game away from home since bloody f***ing August. That's 9 losses and 2 draws on the trot, including to Brentford and Norwich, and we've been outscored 26-6. Bless all the supporters brave enough to go to West Ham and Burnley. True masochists. 

Beat Burnley and we just might catch Leeds or Brentford for 16th with our games in hand. 

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6 hours ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

For about 8 days I mostly forgot about our situation. Now it's all I can think about again. We haven't won a league game away from home since bloody f***ing August. That's 9 losses and 2 draws on the trot, including to Brentford and Norwich, and we've been outscored 26-6. Bless all the supporters brave enough to go to West Ham and Burnley. True masochists. 

Beat Burnley and we just might catch Leeds or Brentford for 16th with our games in hand. 

The important thing is to ensure that we don't lose at Burnley. A win would be great, a draw would be just about acceptable but a defeat would really leave us in serious trouble and give Burnley a genuine belief and confidence that they will catch us.

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6 hours ago, RPG said:

The important thing is to ensure that we don't lose at Burnley. A win would be great, a draw would be just about acceptable but a defeat would really leave us in serious trouble and give Burnley a genuine belief and confidence that they will catch us.

Given the run in we have I think anything other than a win would be disastrous 

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4 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Given the run in we have I think anything other than a win would be disastrous 

I do understand that but it would be so Everton to struggle to a 0-0 at Burnley, then go and beat the other lot!

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7 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Not a bad day for us really with both Burnley and Watford losing. 
Pitty about Brentford and Leeds picking up a point wasn’t ideal but realistically they are both out of reach now anyway

If we could get anything out of the game tomorrow it’s been a good weekend

A point at West Ham would be great. Realistically, the bottom four is now a mini league of its own and we have to make sure we win it - with just an outside chance of catching a couple of teams above us.

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Current status: 38 points

Brentford (H): 3 points
Burnley (A): 3 points
Leeds (H): 3 points (actual: 3 points)
Newcastle (H): 3 points (actual: 3 points)
Palace (H): 3 points
Watford (A): 3 points

Leicester (H): 1 point
Southampton (A): 1 point (actual: 0 points)
Wolves (H): 1 point (actual: 0 points)

Arsenal (A): 0 points
Chelsea (H): 0 points
Leicester (A): 0 points
Liverpool (A): 0 points
Man City (H): 0 points (actual: 0 points)
Man United (H): 0 points
Spurs (A): 0 points (actual: 0 points)
West Ham (A): 0 points (actual: 0 points)

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31 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Current status: 38 points

Brentford (H): 3 points
Burnley (A): 3 points
Leeds (H): 3 points (actual: 3 points)
Newcastle (H): 3 points (actual: 3 points)
Palace (H): 3 points
Watford (A): 3 points

Leicester (H): 1 point
Southampton (A): 1 point (actual: 0 points)
Wolves (H): 1 point (actual: 0 points)

Arsenal (A): 0 points
Chelsea (H): 0 points
Leicester (A): 0 points
Liverpool (A): 0 points
Man City (H): 0 points (actual: 0 points)
Man United (H): 0 points
Spurs (A): 0 points (actual: 0 points)
West Ham (A): 0 points (actual: 0 points)

I hope I am wrong but I think we will draw at Burnley - and it wouldn't be the end of the world if we did.

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1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

Current status: 38 points

Brentford (H): 3 points
Burnley (A): 3 points
Leeds (H): 3 points (actual: 3 points)
Newcastle (H): 3 points (actual: 3 points)
Palace (H): 3 points
Watford (A): 3 points

Leicester (H): 1 point
Southampton (A): 1 point (actual: 0 points)
Wolves (H): 1 point (actual: 0 points)

Arsenal (A): 0 points
Chelsea (H): 0 points
Leicester (A): 0 points
Liverpool (A): 0 points
Man City (H): 0 points (actual: 0 points)
Man United (H): 0 points
Spurs (A): 0 points (actual: 0 points)
West Ham (A): 0 points (actual: 0 points)

All I can see is another 10-12 points, 35 points will probably keep us up 37 will almost guarantee our place in PL next season, 34 and it will be down to goal difference and even 35 could be decided on goal difference, 33 and I think we are gone. 

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The Burnley game is now a critical game for us, if we lose that Burnley Play Norwich at the weekend while we play Man Utd.  Come Sunday we could have dropped into the bottom three, 2 points behind Burnley with a load of shit games to come.

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13 minutes ago, Bill said:

The Burnley game is now a critical game for us, if we lose that Burnley Play Norwich at the weekend while we play Man Utd.  Come Sunday we could have dropped into the bottom three, 2 points behind Burnley with a load of shit games to come.

Agreed. Burnley game is not quite 'must win' but it is definitely a 'must not lose' game.

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talksport well worth a listen right now, our fans are going berserk.  One wants lampard gone and DCL shouldn't play again....  previous one absolutely hates the players and wants to keep lampard - wants delph, dcl, alli booted out and kids played.

The players need to listen.... it would shake them up

 

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8 hours ago, StevO said:

Very possible. I could see it. 
 

My concern is the atmosphere for home games. If the crowd are up for it (Arsenal, Leeds, Newcastle) we can get some wins. If the crowd is quiet (Wolves and plenty of others) I can see us struggling. I’m genuinely going to the game as concerned about the crowd as I am the team. I know this team is a let down waiting to happen, but the crowd can drag them out of it when in the mood. United and Leicester could be massive, unexpected points on the board, if we’ve got a crowd who fancy it. 

You are bright about the team, a let down waiting to happen.

if we survive then I am thoroughly going to enjoy the clear out. 
 

lampard will be giving plenty of youth a chance. 

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  • Romey 1878 changed the title to Ifs, buts and Maybes

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