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Ifs, buts and Maybes


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2 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Absolutely, Rafa's appointment was a mistake and he plays a large part in why we are where we are.

But to say "the individual who got us into this mess"?? Certainly not, friend. He plays a part in it, but he wasn't out on the pitch. He also wasn't even around as we've taken 3 out of the last 18 points available.

I'm sure there is something to be said for Rafa's time having a negative impact on the player's confidence, but as @Hafniamentioned, this group of players was pretty shit before Rafa. And even after Rafa, we've seen they're still pretty shit.

This bunch of players made out that rafas style was too negative…. The same players when challenged to get out and press etc don’t seem to want to do that. Horrible 

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1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Steve…. The club was in a shit state before he came.

Carlo got out of dodge.  The group of players are disgusting, Rafa wasn’t great but this squad of players and their cowardice has got many managers sacked.  They down tools when things don’t go their way. 

 

On the whole I do agree with you but where do you start and stop with this group? 

Do you go back to Martinez / Koeman / Silva? 

Do you just look at Carlo / Rafa / Lampard? 

The group has changed a lot but the same things keep happening. 

Even if you look at this seasons signings, Townsend has added nothing. Gray is starting to look like the Gray of previous clubs. Rondon is a waste of a squad number.

The latest signings dont seem to have much in them either. Mykolenko looks soft, Alli doesnt give a shit and Donny is still a bit of a question mark for me. 

I don't really know where to start anymore. Is it the managers? Is it the players? Is it the board etc? 

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4 minutes ago, Bailey said:

On the whole I do agree with you but where do you start and stop with this group? 

Do you go back to Martinez / Koeman / Silva? 

Do you just look at Carlo / Rafa / Lampard? 

The group has changed a lot but the same things keep happening. 

Small point but being the resident pedant when did a squad become a "group"?

Horrible term, akin to "back to back" replacing "consecutive".

*Shudders in dismay*

Also, while we're on the case, whan did "so" need to be added at the start of the answer to every question?

eg: "Why are you here?"

"So....my parents came over from Turkmenistan in 2003..."

Just fuck off!!!

Ready for my pills now nursey.

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5 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Steve…. The club was in a shit state before he came.

Carlo got out of dodge.  The group of players are disgusting, Rafa wasn’t great but this squad of players and their cowardice has got many managers sacked.  They down tools when things don’t go their way. 

 

2017-2018: 49 points
2018-2019: 54 points
2019-2020: 49 points
2020-2021: 59 points

This season, we'll achieve nowhere near this number. Sure, we've managed 3 points from 18 points since Benitez left, but it takes time to turn a team around when it's in free fall. Before he left, we'd managed just 5 points from a possible 36 points and just lost to Norwich. The best manager in the world would struggle to recover from such abject failure.

Benitez was a huge mistake from the outset, and it's difficult to overestimate the damage he caused. If anyone else is to blame, it's the fool who hired him in the first place.

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5 hours ago, Hafnia said:

The group of players are disgusting, Rafa wasn’t great but this squad of players and their cowardice has got many managers sacked.

 


Really? I'm sure we agree that "many" is not one or two or three. So, I assume you believe "this squad of players" got four managers sacked. That would be Benitez in 2021, Silva in 2019, Allardyce in 2018, and Koeman in 2017. When did current players join our squad?

2009: Seamus Coleman
2016: Mason Holgate
2016: Dominic Calvert-Lewin
2017: Jordan Pickford
2017: Michael Keane
2018: Richarlison
2018: Yerry Mina
2019: Alex Iwobi
2019: Andre Gomes
2019: Fabian Delph
2020: Allan
2020: Abdoulaye Doucoure
2020: Ben Godfrey
2021: Andros Townsend
2021: Asmir Begovic
2021: Demarai Gray
2021: Salomon Rondon
2021: Anthony Gordon (in effect)
2021: Jarrad Branthwaite (in effect)
2022: Vitaly Mykolenko
2022: Donny van de Beek
2022: Dele Alli

So, are you suggesting that all the blame rests with Coleman, Holgate, Calvert-Lewin, Pickford, and Keane?

And before you claim I'm being pedantic, more than half our squad weren't even around when Silva was manager - the last to be fired before Benitez. It's ridiculous to suggest "this squad of players... has got many managers sacked".

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If we get to 35, we have a decent chance to stay up.  That will take 4 wins and a draw from our remaining 12 fixtures.

Our best chances seem to be against Newcastle and Brentford at Goodison, and away to Watford and Burnley (our relegation competitors). Maybe we can take a point at home to Palace and Leicester.

A point isn’t good enough tonight.  Have to beat Newcastle.

 

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7 hours ago, MikeO said:

Small point but being the resident pedant when did a squad become a "group"?

Horrible term, akin to "back to back" replacing "consecutive".

*Shudders in dismay*

Also, while we're on the case, whan did "so" need to be added at the start of the answer to every question?

eg: "Why are you here?"

"So....my parents came over from Turkmenistan in 2003..."

Just fuck off!!!

Ready for my pills now nursey.

So what’s your point 🤫😉

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I think there’s a really weak culture that has crept into the team and it’s progressively gotten worse to a point that it’s on display week in, week out.

Lack of leadership - since Martinez, the players have put in absolutely shit performances but come out to the media and say all the things about hard work, looking at themselves and then a manager gets sacked and they have been cleared of any responsibility. 

Bit by bit the players have changed but the mentality has festered. Signing too many players from “big clubs” who were down on confidence and trying to reignite them.

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8 hours ago, Hafnia said:

This bunch of players made out that rafas style was too negative…. The same players when challenged to get out and press etc don’t seem to want to do that. Horrible 

The biggest problem with this team over the last few years has been it’s fragile defence and lack of an out and out goal scorer.

The last 10 or so games under Ancelotti were poor, defensive mistakes and hardly any shots on target, Benitez didn’t walk into a winning team playing flowing football, far from it he walked into a team in free fall that was lacking in goals and defensively shot. He quickly realised the problem with in the team was the defence, so he implemented a tactic of try and stop conceding goals by protecting the defence and hit teams on the break, this worked a treat even though we only enjoyed around the 40% possession in games we were creating chances in numbers never witnessed under Ancelotti’s last half of the season and we were scoring goals, then goals dried up but the chances created still remained high and the defence still remained fragile, the supporters hated seeing that style of football when we weren’t scoring so not winning so Benitez had to go. 
Now we have Lampard who wants to play a more pressing attacking style of football, but what he hasn’t worked out which is what Benitez quickly worked out is that the defence is very poor and will let you down week in week out, and because you haven’t got someone who can convert chances on regular basis you are pretty much doomed, Lampard hasn’t got the answers or the depth of knowledge required to change this, the Spurs game has pretty much destroyed his confidence as a manager capable of saving us from the drop, he employed the wrong tactics and got completely spanked, what Lampard hasn’t grasped with this team is that they aren’t a Chelsea or a City and don’t have the ability as a team or individuals to play how he wants to play. For me the Wolves game confirmed to me what I thought and said would be the case before his appointment, that through out his a career as a player and short managerial roles he has never experienced what was needed to keep a team up, against Wolves his tactics weren’t good he sent out a team that neither attacked with conviction or defended with confidence, we were a complete mess and reflected the lack of ideas of our manager. Where we get the fight and passion from to stay up I don’t know maybe Big Dunc could bring it out of the players, but I don’t think it will be coming from Lampard and Cole there out of their depths with this one, but I will still keep the faith and we beat Newcastle tonight.  

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8 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:


Really? I'm sure we agree that "many" is not one or two or three. So, I assume you believe "this squad of players" got four managers sacked. That would be Benitez in 2021, Silva in 2019, Allardyce in 2018, and Koeman in 2017. When did current players join our squad?

2009: Seamus Coleman
2016: Mason Holgate
2016: Dominic Calvert-Lewin
2017: Jordan Pickford
2017: Michael Keane
2018: Richarlison
2018: Yerry Mina
2019: Alex Iwobi
2019: Andre Gomes
2019: Fabian Delph
2020: Allan
2020: Abdoulaye Doucoure
2020: Ben Godfrey
2021: Andros Townsend
2021: Asmir Begovic
2021: Demarai Gray
2021: Salomon Rondon
2021: Anthony Gordon (in effect)
2021: Jarrad Branthwaite (in effect)
2022: Vitaly Mykolenko
2022: Donny van de Beek
2022: Dele Alli

So, are you suggesting that all the blame rests with Coleman, Holgate, Calvert-Lewin, Pickford, and Keane?

And before you claim I'm being pedantic, more than half our squad weren't even around when Silva was manager - the last to be fired before Benitez. It's ridiculous to suggest "this squad of players... has got many managers sacked".

Ok for sake of your pedantic nature, “they” got silva sacked, Carlo walked after giving him a run of games that had us trending at the bottom on form - he fuckin knew, Rafa got sacked.  

I’ll name the players I blame for our piss poor culture whilst I’m at it…..  Holgate, Keane, Coleman, DCL, iwobi, Gomes, Delph, James, Digne, Walcott.

if like a load of Evertonians you wish to blame Rafa for this then you haven’t got a bloody clue.  You essentially handed this group of shithouses the excuse they needed to carry on with their “I may turn up today, then again if I don’t the fans hate the manager anyway”.

there was various reasons that Rafa wasn’t a good choice and the main one was that he had no credit in the bank with us. As soon as the results went from good to not so good, the fans who were so eager to voice their disapproval were shouting.  They were very quiet when he had us in top 4. The weak players then had us blowing leads against Watford and literally did not run in many games….. all because they didn’t like the managers style.

lampard comes in, they buy into his expansive style,  ooohh  but as soon as they concede a goal the old “fuck this, I’m not playing” mentality came in.

was Rafa to blame for them giving up vs spurs, was he to blame for them treating wolves like a pre season fixture. 

Some of our fans deserve the shit we are in, because they hero worship players who have an indifferent attitude to a club we love.  £60 grand Seamus Coleman…… cupping his ears to fans who had the audacity to question the application of the players cos we scored a goal, Lukaku who spent his international break telling press Everton need to change their style of he’s off……. The same shit he tried which effectively ended his Chelsea career, Digne who after us getting beat was “liking” stats sent out by his stooge that put his at number 1 for crosses. 
 

Clubs a joke, if you wanna blame the FSW cos he got rid of James then fair enough. That’s always been your issue cos let’s be honest, you were more a fan of him than you have ever been of Everton. 

Just to be 100% clear Steve - James Rodriguez wanted to leave before Ancelotti left, Alan Myers put his name to that.  I know from your input in the Rodriguez thread that you blame rafa for his exit and yes I think thats why you disliked rafa so much.  

 

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10 hours ago, Bailey said:

On the whole I do agree with you but where do you start and stop with this group? 

Do you go back to Martinez / Koeman / Silva? 

Do you just look at Carlo / Rafa / Lampard? 

The group has changed a lot but the same things keep happening. 

Even if you look at this seasons signings, Townsend has added nothing. Gray is starting to look like the Gray of previous clubs. Rondon is a waste of a squad number.

The latest signings dont seem to have much in them either. Mykolenko looks soft, Alli doesnt give a shit and Donny is still a bit of a question mark for me. 

I don't really know where to start anymore. Is it the managers? Is it the players? Is it the board etc? 

It’s the culture, simple as that. 
 

You can cut away at weeds but unless you get the whole lot and out by the root they will grow back amongst the weeds that you didn’t get rid of and the few flowers that you have got get overtaken by them.

it’s never been a popular opinion but I see Coleman as a massive problem, massive.  On his day he was a good athletic full back who wasn’t a great defender but among good players was a benefit to the team.  He became an overpromoted mouthpiece, who because he does the things that as Roy Keane would say “that’s your job” has been feted like some Brian labone.   He can’t even lead by example as he is  so often to blame for the goals. 
 

It’s madness that so many fans don’t see the issue with him, it’s like some crazy loyalty to a player he was. Tough shit, peter Reid was a hero but when his legs went he had to suffer groans etc and as sad as it was he had to go. He was 10 times the leader Coleman was yet he wasn’t captain….. that tells you everything about the lack of leadership in our squad. 
 

When he is interviewed he gives the irritating “listen to me be brutally honest” interviews that have absolutely no impact on me cos they are all good at talking like they hate defeat but in the middle of a match they could not give a shit. 
 

the most pitiful excuses I’ve seen on a football pitch.

 

I’ll leave it at this - if these players needed premier league status to pay their mortgage we would be at the top end of the table. 

 

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3 hours ago, Palfy said:

The biggest problem with this team over the last few years has been it’s fragile defence and lack of an out and out goal scorer.

The last 10 or so games under Ancelotti were poor, defensive mistakes and hardly any shots on target, Benitez didn’t walk into a winning team playing flowing football, far from it he walked into a team in free fall that was lacking in goals and defensively shot. He quickly realised the problem with in the team was the defence, so he implemented a tactic of try and stop conceding goals by protecting the defence and hit teams on the break, this worked a treat even though we only enjoyed around the 40% possession in games we were creating chances in numbers never witnessed under Ancelotti’s last half of the season and we were scoring goals, then goals dried up but the chances created still remained high and the defence still remained fragile, the supporters hated seeing that style of football when we weren’t scoring so not winning so Benitez had to go. 
Now we have Lampard who wants to play a more pressing attacking style of football, but what he hasn’t worked out which is what Benitez quickly worked out is that the defence is very poor and will let you down week in week out, and because you haven’t got someone who can convert chances on regular basis you are pretty much doomed, Lampard hasn’t got the answers or the depth of knowledge required to change this, the Spurs game has pretty much destroyed his confidence as a manager capable of saving us from the drop, he employed the wrong tactics and got completely spanked, what Lampard hasn’t grasped with this team is that they aren’t a Chelsea or a City and don’t have the ability as a team or individuals to play how he wants to play. For me the Wolves game confirmed to me what I thought and said would be the case before his appointment, that through out his a career as a player and short managerial roles he has never experienced what was needed to keep a team up, against Wolves his tactics weren’t good he sent out a team that neither attacked with conviction or defended with confidence, we were a complete mess and reflected the lack of ideas of our manager. Where we get the fight and passion from to stay up I don’t know maybe Big Dunc could bring it out of the players, but I don’t think it will be coming from Lampard and Cole there out of their depths with this one, but I will still keep the faith and we beat Newcastle tonight.  

my issue is this - the same players who dominated Leeds and more than held their own against Man City basically didn't bother turning up against Spurs - just like they didn't against Southampton.

The ability of the players is far greater than their output. Hence their reliance on a goodison crowd to vocally work their bollocks off - and the cheeky pricks ask the fans to be there for them.... the  fans have always been there - they haven't.

Ultimately managers carry the can - they are the one person who pay the price for the collective rubbish of others.  They receive the anger and ire that the players should get.

Ever seen the dance floor at a party?  It takes a couple of brave ones to get up and dance whilst everyone is sat looking from their tables - once it goes past a certain number the rest join in.  This is Everton - we have too many sat at a table sipping a drink wishing they had the bottle to stand out from the crowd whilst Antony Gordon is up there on his own doing the moonwalk and asking others to join him. 

The players are collectively pathetic - whether it be the ones under silva or koeman or whoever, and the worst thing about this season is that Rafa is set to be the fall guy - a very convenient patsy for the players to hide behind.  Werre they all here when Silva was here - no but they certainly bought into the script that has been set before they arrived.

Big bad Rafa - the man who got rid of club stalwarts like Bernard, James Rodriguez, Lucas Digne and challenged players to actually try and defend cos he realised thay they couldn't outscore teams.   I wanted Potter and his DOF - not Rafa, but I knew that it wouldn't necessarily work cos they players were the issue.

We would be safe if Rodriguez was still here and  Rafa never got rid apparently....... he's appeared in 12 out of 24 games for his new side earning £300k a week.  We had the deal set to exchange him for Luis Diaz who is playing extremely well for Liverpool and who arguably would have us up the league - but James realised not only could his salary get matched at a reputed former club in Portugal  - he could up it by another £60k so went to qatar......  

Rafa has been part of the problem no doubt - but he is no way the sole person responsibkle for where we are- those players are a disgrace.

 

Jamie Carragher had it spot on in his analysis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Carlo walked after giving him a run of games that had us trending at the bottom on form

Carlo walked because one of the biggest and most successful clubs in the modern era came knocking at his door. Who wouldn't walk under that circumstance - whether we liked it or not?

3 hours ago, Hafnia said:

They were very quiet when he had us in top 4. The weak players then had us blowing leads against Watford and literally did not run in many games….. all because they didn’t like the managers style.

We had the easiest start to the season of any club, playing teams we should expect to beat - and even then we struggled, mostly having to come from behind. Being top 4 flattered to deceive.

3 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Clubs a joke, if you wanna blame the FSW cos he got rid of James then fair enough. That’s always been your issue cos let’s be honest, you were more a fan of him than you have ever been of Everton. 

Just to be 100% clear Steve - James Rodriguez wanted to leave before Ancelotti left, Alan Myers put his name to that.  I know from your input in the Rodriguez thread that you blame rafa for his exit and yes I think thats why you disliked rafa so much.  

Um - what has James got to do with the current discussion?

I respect your opinion, and the players you list have not performed as they should. Every team has those players, and it's the manager's job to fix it: move them out, keep them on the bench, focus in training, whatever. Indeed, I would say the greatest managers often have the most temperamental players, and it can be a real challenge to get the best out of them. Let's see how our new manager deals with the issue.

With Benitez no longer at the helm, though, at least we're not seeing players with no clue about team tactics and what they're supposed to be doing. The most committed of players couldn't succeed when that's the case. Given his supposed successful record as a manager, Benitez did an excellent impression of a manager who has no clue.


 

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6 hours ago, Btay said:

I think there’s a really weak culture that has crept into the team and it’s progressively gotten worse to a point that it’s on display week in, week out.

Lack of leadership - since Martinez, the players have put in absolutely shit performances but come out to the media and say all the things about hard work, looking at themselves and then a manager gets sacked and they have been cleared of any responsibility. 

Bit by bit the players have changed but the mentality has festered. Signing too many players from “big clubs” who were down on confidence and trying to reignite them.

That is a lot of players that have come in and out since Martinez. If there had been a lack of leadership then that goes onto the managers / recruitment. 

That last bit is a massive generalisation too. Allan was out of favour at Napoli but he gives his all. Townend came from Palace but be has declined as the going has got tough. 

4 hours ago, Hafnia said:

It’s the culture, simple as that. 
 

You can cut away at weeds but unless you get the whole lot and out by the root they will grow back amongst the weeds that you didn’t get rid of and the few flowers that you have got get overtaken by them.

it’s never been a popular opinion but I see Coleman as a massive problem, massive.  On his day he was a good athletic full back who wasn’t a great defender but among good players was a benefit to the team.  He became an overpromoted mouthpiece, who because he does the things that as Roy Keane would say “that’s your job” has been feted like some Brian labone.   He can’t even lead by example as he is  so often to blame for the goals. 
 

It’s madness that so many fans don’t see the issue with him, it’s like some crazy loyalty to a player he was. Tough shit, peter Reid was a hero but when his legs went he had to suffer groans etc and as sad as it was he had to go. He was 10 times the leader Coleman was yet he wasn’t captain….. that tells you everything about the lack of leadership in our squad. 
 

When he is interviewed he gives the irritating “listen to me be brutally honest” interviews that have absolutely no impact on me cos they are all good at talking like they hate defeat but in the middle of a match they could not give a shit. 
 

the most pitiful excuses I’ve seen on a football pitch.

 

I’ll leave it at this - if these players needed premier league status to pay their mortgage we would be at the top end of the table. 

 

Essentially then you are saying that every player involved at the moment needs to go and be replaced? Whilst I was about to argue that point, the more I think about it the more I think I wouldnt really mind any of the players being sold. 

I wouldnt listen to any player interview. I dont get why people do. They are media managed and players of all clubs say the same thing. Home truths dont really tend to work either. Most times those home truths tend to come from players/managers who have their own agendas as well.

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1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

Carlo walked because one of the biggest and most successful clubs in the modern era came knocking at his door. Who wouldn't walk under that circumstance - whether we liked it or not?

We had the easiest start to the season of any club, playing teams we should expect to beat - and even then we struggled, mostly having to come from behind. Being top 4 flattered to deceive.

Um - what has James got to do with the current discussion?

I respect your opinion, and the players you list have not performed as they should. Every team has those players, and it's the manager's job to fix it: move them out, keep them on the bench, focus in training, whatever. Indeed, I would say the greatest managers often have the most temperamental players, and it can be a real challenge to get the best out of them. Let's see how our new manager deals with the issue.

With Benitez no longer at the helm, though, at least we're not seeing players with no clue about team tactics and what they're supposed to be doing. The most committed of players couldn't succeed when that's the case. Given his supposed successful record as a manager, Benitez did an excellent impression of a manager who has no clue.


 

You say we had the easiest start to the season.... Southampton, Leeds pre injuries, Brighton away, Burnley, - would you fancy us getting those results now?  I wouldn't.  

James has everything to do with your dislike of Rafa - you posted a ridiculous amount of stuff about James making out it was Rafas fault and you were a massive Rodriguez fan... as was I till he decided he had done his bit and put his slippers on.

It is the managers job to root out the problem players and I said early on the Rafa would pick players that would not be popular... but definitely required.

The reality is we have an owner who meddles in stuff he shouldn't.  I was told by a member of staff when Carlo came in that Kenwright and Moshiri were picking players themselves and Koeman got a pick..... the three of them - hence we had Klaasen, Rooney and Gylfi.  

How can you point a finger at Rafa when you have a club like this. You reckon Carlo wasn't looking for a way out?  He was done with the nonsense behind the scenes and with the players.  He was beaten and went...

The players did know what was expected of them under Benitez - he was very clear in what he wanted them to do, they didn't want to do it.  I think Digne made that point very clear.

 

Again I repeat - I didnt want Rafa but knew that if things went his way he would get the credibility to clear the awful culture at the club

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Bailey said:

That is a lot of players that have come in and out since Martinez. If there had been a lack of leadership then that goes onto the managers / recruitment. 

That last bit is a massive generalisation too. Allan was out of favour at Napoli but he gives his all. Townend came from Palace but be has declined as the going has got tough. 

Essentially then you are saying that every player involved at the moment needs to go and be replaced? Whilst I was about to argue that point, the more I think about it the more I think I wouldnt really mind any of the players being sold. 

I wouldnt listen to any player interview. I dont get why people do. They are media managed and players of all clubs say the same thing. Home truths dont really tend to work either. Most times those home truths tend to come from players/managers who have their own agendas as well.

I would get rid of pretty much anyone bar:- Gordon, Godfrey, Doucoure, Gray, Richarlison and thats a 50/50 on Richarlison.  

I would have duncan gone whilst i'm at it.  Not sure what he does - for me he is like one of the meeters and greeters you see at footy matches - ex players, except he's got a job in the club backstaff and to my knowledge hasnt yet pinned any one of the 30 players who have stunk they gaff out under the other failed managers.  If he did - i'd keep him there cos they need it.  He's far too chummy with the players and too chummy with Kenwright etc.  

 

Club needs a massive reset.

 

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1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

I would get rid of pretty much anyone bar:- Gordon, Godfrey, Doucoure, Gray, Richarlison and thats a 50/50 on Richarlison.  

I would have duncan gone whilst i'm at it.  Not sure what he does - for me he is like one of the meeters and greeters you see at footy matches - ex players, except he's got a job in the club backstaff and to my knowledge hasnt yet pinned any one of the 30 players who have stunk they gaff out under the other failed managers.  If he did - i'd keep him there cos they need it.  He's far too chummy with the players and too chummy with Kenwright etc.  

 

Club needs a massive reset.

 

You wouldn't keep Pickford? or Allan?

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1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

You say we had the easiest start to the season.... Southampton, Leeds pre injuries, Brighton away, Burnley, - would you fancy us getting those results now?  I wouldn't.  

James has everything to do with your dislike of Rafa - you posted a ridiculous amount of stuff about James making out it was Rafas fault and you were a massive Rodriguez fan... as was I till he decided he had done his bit and put his slippers on.

It is the managers job to root out the problem players and I said early on the Rafa would pick players that would not be popular... but definitely required.

The reality is we have an owner who meddles in stuff he shouldn't.  I was told by a member of staff when Carlo came in that Kenwright and Moshiri were picking players themselves and Koeman got a pick..... the three of them - hence we had Klaasen, Rooney and Gylfi.  

How can you point a finger at Rafa when you have a club like this. You reckon Carlo wasn't looking for a way out?  He was done with the nonsense behind the scenes and with the players.  He was beaten and went...

The players did know what was expected of them under Benitez - he was very clear in what he wanted them to do, they didn't want to do it.  I think Digne made that point very clear.

 

Again I repeat - I didnt want Rafa but knew that if things went his way he would get the credibility to clear the awful culture at the club

 

 

 

I'm not sure why you think I'm a James fan. I simply mentioned a few times that he left because of Benitez. Yes, I do think we were fortunate to have a world-class player on our roster for a short while, but that doesn't mean I'm a "massive" fan. Plus, he's irrelevant to the current discussion. It's like blaming the current squad because you don't like Lukaku. You may know your stuff, but you do obsess over the strangest things at times. :)

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Getting to 35 should be the goal, I think.  Minor miracle — but also a lovely few seconds of football — got us a crucial 3 tonight.

Although all remaining matches are important, away to Burnley and Watford, and home to Brentford are the biggest.  Might nick a point home to Palace and/or Leicester.

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Current status: 38 points

Brentford (H): 3 points
Burnley (A): 3 points
Leeds (H): 3 points (actual: 3 points)
Newcastle (H): 3 points (actual: 3 points)
Palace (H): 3 points
Watford (A): 3 points

Leicester (H): 1 point
Southampton (A): 1 point (actual: 0 points)
Wolves (H): 1 point (actual: 0 points)

Arsenal (A): 0 points
Chelsea (H): 0 points
Leicester (A): 0 points
Liverpool (A): 0 points
Man City (H): 0 points (actual: 0 points)
Man United (H): 0 points
Spurs (A): 0 points (actual: 0 points)
West Ham (A): 0 points

 

We're keeping on pace. Beating Burnley and Watford might, might just be enough regardless of every other result. But they're both away so we know how that's likely to go. 

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1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

Why we bothered about what the sides above us do? It's all about us putting distance between the sides below us.

Seriously, stop getting negative when Leeds/Brentford/Newcastle/whoever win or pick up points. They do not matter right now. Watch the bottom three and our results.

I’m ONLY looking at the teams above mate. And I hope to god the players are as well. 
The second they start worrying about teams below us is the moment we give up and get relegated.

Its in our hands. If the season stopped right this second, we’re not relegated. 
Our aim should be to climb as high up the table as possible.

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1 hour ago, Shukes said:

I’m ONLY looking at the teams above mate. And I hope to god the players are as well. 
The second they start worrying about teams below us is the moment we give up and get relegated.

Its in our hands. If the season stopped right this second, we’re not relegated. 
Our aim should be to climb as high up the table as possible.

People are flapping over the sides above us. They're utterly irrelevant to the situation.

What I'm trying to say is, just worry about what Everton do because if we do our job then nothing else matters. As you say, we've got games in hand, it's totally down to what we do. So fuck stressing out over Leeds etc. You're just making things worse for yourselves.

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14 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

People are flapping over the sides above us. They're utterly irrelevant to the situation.

What I'm trying to say is, just worry about what Everton do because if we do our job then nothing else matters. As you say, we've got games in hand, it's totally down to what we do. So fuck stressing out over Leeds etc. You're just making things worse for yourselves.

Agreed for me we have 2 games that we need to win Watford and Burnley, they aren’t must win games but they will go along way if won in helping keep those 2 clubs below us, there’s along to go in this season and we will still experience more highs and lows I’m sure. 

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3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Why we bothered about what the sides above us do? It's all about us putting distance between the sides below us.

Seriously, stop getting negative when Leeds/Brentford/Newcastle/whoever win or pick up points. They do not matter right now. Watch the bottom three and our results.

Yes I agree but Leeds were effectively below us when you look at the odds of relegation. We would have had 3 games on them with one point behind so from a psychological perspective if limits the variables and puts more pressure on the Burnley game. 
 

if we take care of Burnley and Watford and average a point per match we will be ok. 

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