Pre-season 2022/23

[Bailey]

I have just had a look at the highlights and thought I would comment on a few things.

1st goal - Silly handball from Davies. What is he doing with his hand? Did Mykolenko get beaten before that as he is in a weird position.

2nd goal - The first concern is how do we end up in a  5 v 4 situation. Tactically something has gone wrong. Davies didn't have the recovery pace, whoever the RCB was gave his man too much space and Keane dealt with the cross about as badly as he could have. We cannot play Keane in a side where the CBs have to turn and face their own goal a lot because he is terrible at it. Actually that might be too kind. 

3rd goal - This is a real mess. Starts with the RB being miles off his man. Neither midfielder deals with the clearance. The back line gets completely out of shape, the midfield does the same. We have so many players in the space of a tea towel. The LB gets caught way too tight, no doubt due to the mess around him and thats another goal down, but not before the RCB makes a pretty pathetic effort of stopping the tap in. The side on view of that goal is one of the best examples I have seen of how not to defend. Goals 2 and 3 are massively concerning.

4th goal - Shape again is poor. Someone is running back to goal with their back to goal. We give a play 10-15 yards of free space 30ish yards from goal. Whoever is playing LB (I hope its an attacking player because they shouldnt be a defender) gets into an awful body position and gets caught ball watching. Mina then gets beaten by the run. 

It doesn't look like we have done any work on our defensive shape. The players aren't drilled at all (3rd goal makes this obvious). The players aren't communicating to each other.

These are the basics of good teams. This is what you work on in pre-season. You can understand that players won't be their sharpest but those basics always need to be there. 

Lampard and his team need to work out what they want to do with this bunch because we are going to get our arses handed to us if this mess continues. 

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I have just had a look at the highlights...

Not seen them myself but "highlights" doesn't sound like the right word from what I read.

[dunlopp9987]

21 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I have just had a look at the highlights and thought I would comment on a few things.

1st goal - Silly handball from Davies. What is he doing with his hand? Did Mykolenko get beaten before that as he is in a weird position.

2nd goal - The first concern is how do we end up in a  5 v 4 situation. Tactically something has gone wrong. Davies didn't have the recovery pace, whoever the RCB was gave his man too much space and Keane dealt with the cross about as badly as he could have. We cannot play Keane in a side where the CBs have to turn and face their own goal a lot because he is terrible at it. Actually that might be too kind. 

3rd goal - This is a real mess. Starts with the RB being miles off his man. Neither midfielder deals with the clearance. The back line gets completely out of shape, the midfield does the same. We have so many players in the space of a tea towel. The LB gets caught way too tight, no doubt due to the mess around him and thats another goal down, but not before the RCB makes a pretty pathetic effort of stopping the tap in. The side on view of that goal is one of the best examples I have seen of how not to defend. Goals 2 and 3 are massively concerning.

4th goal - Shape again is poor. Someone is running back to goal with their back to goal. We give a play 10-15 yards of free space 30ish yards from goal. Whoever is playing LB (I hope its an attacking player because they shouldnt be a defender) gets into an awful body position and gets caught ball watching. Mina then gets beaten by the run. 

It doesn't look like we have done any work on our defensive shape. The players aren't drilled at all (3rd goal makes this obvious). The players aren't communicating to each other.

These are the basics of good teams. This is what you work on in pre-season. You can understand that players won't be their sharpest but those basics always need to be there. 

Lampard and his team need to work out what they want to do with this bunch because we are going to get our arses handed to us if this mess continues. 

A lot of mentions of the RCB. Unfortunately that was Tarkowski. Hoping to chalk it all up to being in a new team and system. 

LB on the fourth goal was Niels, who just needs to stay as far away from this team as possible. Or be moved to left midfield, problem is he can't cross for shit either

[Palfy]

There’s been a lot of talk about how shit we were at defending and rightly so, going through the goals and how poor we were, if it was City we could understand it and find a few excuses about being beat by the best team in the league, but this was Minnesota ffs. I haven’t  read anything about all the chances we created and missed or how creative we were in our play, sarcasm maybe on my part, but more importantly there’s nothing good to discuss about our play because we were woeful. 

[dunlopp9987]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

There’s been a lot of talk about how shit we were at defending and rightly so, going through the goals and how poor we were, if it was City we could understand it and find a few excuses about being beat by the best team in the league, but this was Minnesota ffs. I haven’t  read anything about all the chances we created and missed or how creative we were in our play, sarcasm maybe on my part, but more importantly there’s nothing good to discuss about our play because we were woeful. 

Okay well I do have to chime in for my hometown team. United played their normal starting XI last night, they're in midseason form, they've got 13 points from the last 15 and are 4th in the conference. So it's not as if we were playing some shit team. The level in quality for MLS teams has improved remarkably over the last 5 years.

All that being said, we looked completely clueless when we got near the 18 yard box. Gordon was especially ineffective last night, looked frustrated all game. 

[Bailey]

48 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

A lot of mentions of the RCB. Unfortunately that was Tarkowski. Hoping to chalk it all up to being in a new team and system. 

LB on the fourth goal was Niels, who just needs to stay as far away from this team as possible. Or be moved to left midfield, problem is he can't cross for shit either

If I am honest I thought it was Holgate which is worrying. 

I don't see how Niels is going to be a Championship player let alone a Premier League one. James would have defended that last goal better. There was so much wrong with it. 

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Okay well I do have to chime in for my hometown team. United played their normal starting XI last night, they're in midseason form, they've got 13 points from the last 15 and are 4th in the conference. So it's not as if we were playing some shit team. The level in quality for MLS teams has improved remarkably over the last 5 years.

All that being said, we looked completely clueless when we got near the 18 yard box. Gordon was especially ineffective last night, looked frustrated all game. 

Not wishing to disrespect your home team or league and I’m pleased for you that there having a good campaign, but Everton play in the best league in the world and under no circumstances should we be beaten by an MLS team 4-0 creating no decent chances and being out played, and the fact it happened means we have massive problems going forward.  

[dunlopp9987]

9 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Not wishing to disrespect your home team or league and I’m pleased for you that there having a good campaign, but Everton play in the best league in the world and under no circumstances should we be beaten by an MLS team 4-0 creating no decent chances and being out played, and the fact it happened means we have massive problems going forward.  

Oh 100%. We should definitely not be getting beat 4-0. I was just trying to raise the point that MNUFC is a very strong side in a strong league (I think MLS is now top 10 league in the world in terms of metrics and all that).

I think we need to stop thinking of ourselves as a top half team, to be honest. Our goal this year should be midtable and anyone else saying otherwise is delusional

[Palfy]

37 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Oh 100%. We should definitely not be getting beat 4-0. I was just trying to raise the point that MNUFC is a very strong side in a strong league (I think MLS is now top 10 league in the world in terms of metrics and all that).

I think we need to stop thinking of ourselves as a top half team, to be honest. Our goal this year should be midtable and anyone else saying otherwise is delusional

I honestly believe and I wish it wasn’t the case that we are as far away from being mid table as we are top 6. We’ve made so many mistakes over the last 6-7 years that we will have to pay a big price before we can start properly repairing the damage. I’ve witnessed no real improvement under Lampard and that isn’t a direct criticism of him that’s a criticism of the club, Pep wouldn’t do any better with the players here and the lack of funds available, plus players of any note want to leave, and we aren’t a draw for players who have ambition, but we are great at signing below par players on big players wages. 

[Romey 1878]

We should have known it was all going to go to shit the moment we bought three number 10s in the same window.

Even more so when you consider one of them cost us £45m despite being worth barely half that and wasn’t even a number 10 really. Another of them came from the Dutch league, which naturally made him a risk. And the final one we brought in was in the twilight of his career and was only a number 10 because his legs had gone and he couldn’t play as a striker anymore.

[RuffRob]

13 hours ago, Palfy said:

How many more years are we going to be saying those words. For me there are no excuses for any PL team to be beaten 4-0 by Minnesota. What a shit fest we’ve got to look forward to this season, with Richarlison gone it’s going to be worse than the last. 

Oh, come on - two or three weeks ago we are all taking about have some pacience, but then start doing our nuts over a couple of pre-season friendlies on the other side of the world is the exact opposite. 

Are you really expect the tide to have turned in 3weeks of pre season? Pre season friendlies are far to over hyped these days, especially overseas tours. They are little more than training session. 

Also slightly disrespectful of Minnesota and MSL to assume they are so shit and unorganised that PL teams three weeks in to pre-season should be rocking up and beating them at home.

 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, RuffRob said:

Oh, come on - two or three weeks ago we are all taking about have some pacience, but then start doing our nuts over a couple of pre-season friendlies on the other side of the world is the exact opposite. 

Are you really expect the tide to have turned in 3weeks of pre season? Pre season friendlies are far to over hyped these days, especially overseas tours. They are little more than training session. 

Also slightly disrespectful of Minnesota and MSL to assume they are so shit and unorganised that PL teams three weeks in to pre-season should be rocking up and beating them at home.

 

Tbf, Lampard seemed pretty concerned himself after the Minnesota game.

The tide won't turn until we make some signings as well. If ever a squad needed fresh blood, it's ours.

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

Tbf, Lampard seemed pretty concerned himself after the Minnesota game.

The tide won't turn until we make some signings as well. If ever a squad needed fresh blood, it's ours.

Talksport saying lampard shouldn’t have been talking about threat of relegation?!  
fuck off!! 
 

the same station that had a go at Everton for daring to employ Carlo ancelotti.   
 

lampard knows these players can’t be trusted, it’s as if they have had the breathing space of 38 games to avoid relegation and are back to what they are. He’s basically telling them as it is now. 

[patto]

15 hours ago, Palfy said:

Not wishing to disrespect your home team or league and I’m pleased for you that there having a good campaign, but Everton play in the best league in the world and under no circumstances should we be beaten by an MLS team 4-0 creating no decent chances and being out played, and the fact it happened means we have massive problems going forward.  

Not disagreeing with your comments but for the chances we had 2 stellar both should have been scored Deli and DCL  same old problem with Dom 1 on 1 he’s terrible 

[Palfy]

6 hours ago, RuffRob said:

Oh, come on - two or three weeks ago we are all taking about have some pacience, but then start doing our nuts over a couple of pre-season friendlies on the other side of the world is the exact opposite. 

Are you really expect the tide to have turned in 3weeks of pre season? Pre season friendlies are far to over hyped these days, especially overseas tours. They are little more than training session. 

Also slightly disrespectful of Minnesota and MSL to assume they are so shit and unorganised that PL teams three weeks in to pre-season should be rocking up and beating them at home.

 

Oh come on nothing that result and the way we played was humiliating, and that’s the kindest word I can find for it,  you might be confident that we will turn a corner in a couple of weeks, but even Lampard is not so sure and pissed with how we played and is losing his shit. Keep the rose tinted classes on Rob they are obviously protecting you from the reality of the situation the club and team find themselves in, whether you like it or not we should not be getting beat 4-0 by Minnesota under any circumstances the gulf between our leagues is huge.  Embarrassing  

[Hafnia]

7 hours ago, RuffRob said:

Oh, come on - two or three weeks ago we are all taking about have some pacience, but then start doing our nuts over a couple of pre-season friendlies on the other side of the world is the exact opposite. 

Are you really expect the tide to have turned in 3weeks of pre season? Pre season friendlies are far to over hyped these days, especially overseas tours. They are little more than training session. 

Also slightly disrespectful of Minnesota and MSL to assume they are so shit and unorganised that PL teams three weeks in to pre-season should be rocking up and beating them at home.

 

We are in trouble. Big trouble. Watch the goals back.   You reckon a few more weeks of training will make Michael Keane direct the ball towards the corner flag and not his own goal? You reckon a few more weeks will make Tom Davies suddenly find 5 yards of pace of give Doucoure the ability to pass accurately? 

[RuffRob]

I don't bother watching preseason games, so definately not going to paw over them. Lampard will be letting the owners know he NEEDS his own signings. Maintained last season one of our biggest problems was lack of consistent CB pairing, so not going to start panicking after 45min of the very latest pairing. Will wait myself for the start the annual despair once the transfer window's have closed and we have played at least half a dozen competitive games. 

[Btay]

Hopefully we start to see some cohesion in the Blackpool & Kiev games. 

We really needed a couple of signing though in the last week to give them a chance to gel with the first team.

Regardless, I hope we put in a good performance against Blackpool and can put out the same 11 ( new signings depending) against Kiev before the season starts.

[Romey 1878]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/22/everton-to-give-ukrainian-refugees-free-entry-for-dynamo-kyiv-friendly

[Bailey]

On the whole I think pre-season games are a good indicator of where we are ahead of the new season. 

The only time I remember us playing differently was under Carlo but that quickly reverted to type after those first few games. 

I am a firm believer that the hard yards are done in the pre-season. If you dont make the most of those weeks, you are playing catch up and we can't afford to be doing that. 

A lot of people are happy to close their eyes and put their fingers in their ears but if this level of performance (note not result) continues over the next two games, it is going to be a long hard season.

[Shukes]

I agree Bailey. It’s worrying.

I train kids that if they work hard in training and put the effort in… then a match is the easy part where they get to express themselves.

[Bailey]

I really hope we see a step forward today. 

I don't know what Blackpool have up front but I imagine we will try and push them back and leave ourselves open to the counter attack. Hopefully they don't have any pace or anyone that can pick a pass.

[Formby]

54 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I really hope we see a step forward today. 

I don't know what Blackpool have up front but I imagine we will try and push them back and leave ourselves open to the counter attack. Hopefully they don't have any pace or anyone that can pick a pass.

You mean like us, then! 

[Bailey]

[c1982]

No DCL in the squad - injured? Offski?

[Bailey]

With the exception of DCL for Rondon, that is probably the side that starts against Chelsea isn't it (without new signings coming straight into the team)?

Whilst I can see Iwobi in a 3 man midfield, I don't see him being relied upon in a 2 man midfield.

[c1982]

 

[Bailey]

3 minutes ago, c1982 said:

No DCL in the squad - injured? Offski?

I have read that there is no Simms or Dobbin too although I cant find any info on the subs yet?

[Wall Writer]

2 minutes ago, c1982 said:

 

Don't like the sound of that. If DCL is gonna be off doing those photoshoots again all season, then we're in for another torrid season.

[c1982]

29 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I have read that there is no Simms or Dobbin too although I cant find any info on the subs yet?

Both on bench…

Everton's bench v Blackpool:
Crellin; Leban, Holgate, Keane, Allan, Iwobi, Nkounkou, Simms, Warrington, Mills, Price, Dobbin and Welch.