Jump to content
IGNORED

James Garner


Recommended Posts

45 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

 

well if that right, then I think this would be a cracking bit of business. it sounded like a fair few club where have been interested in him.

He could quite easily be this seasons 'Conor Gallagher'. He has a fair bit of Championship experience for a 21 year old (around 80 games), and his play last season seemed to go up a level.  

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, StevO said:

Absolutely this. On Geri, im pretty sure we had just loaned him out to AC Milan anyway, not like they pulled him out of our starting line up. 
 

Garner though, nice!

If the player gets a choice I don’t see the point of a buy back clause. I can see that they have to reach terms with the player but I don’t see how they could choose to stay once the buy back is met. Perhaps I’m wrong though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

If the player gets a choice I don’t see the point of a buy back clause. I can see that they have to reach terms with the player but I don’t see how they could choose to stay once the buy back is met. Perhaps I’m wrong though. 

The point of the buy back clause gives the selling club, United in this case, the opportunity to agree a price now. So they could sell him to us now for £15m with a £20m buy back clause. Two years from now he could be worth £50m, but they have the price locked in.

Some buy back clauses are as simple as they have to be informed of any other bids for the player and can then choose to match it or not. 
 

But the player might choose another club anyway. 
 

It never guarantees them the player. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

If the player gets a choice I don’t see the point of a buy back clause. I can see that they have to reach terms with the player but I don’t see how they could choose to stay once the buy back is met. Perhaps I’m wrong though. 

It’s not like it can be in the NBA or NFL when the team decides to transfer a player they have to go. They can never force a player to move here, or most of football really. Not sure if MLS follow the NBA or NFL model though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, StevO said:

The point of the buy back clause gives the selling club, United in this case, the opportunity to agree a price now. So they could sell him to us now for £15m with a £20m buy back clause. Two years from now he could be worth £50m, but they have the price locked in.

Some buy back clauses are as simple as they have to be informed of any other bids for the player and can then choose to match it or not. 
 

But the player might choose another club anyway. 
 

It never guarantees them the player. 

I understand the premise economically. But if the player just says “Nah” it’s pretty toothless. My presumption was that if they buy back the player he is theirs and they have to reach personal terms or sell him elsewhere. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, StevO said:

It’s not like it can be in the NBA or NFL when the team decides to transfer a player they have to go. They can never force a player to move here, or most of football really. Not sure if MLS follow the NBA or NFL model though. 

One reason more parity exists in those leagues I would say. You sometimes get holdouts in the NFL or NBA but they aren’t held hostage by players nearly as often as occurs in football. As an American it is always wild to me that a player under contract can just easily force a move in most cases, effectively disregarding his agreement. I expect it comes from there just being so many different leagues and options whereas the NFL is only that one league really and can better regulate those things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

One reason more parity exists in those leagues I would say. You sometimes get holdouts in the NFL or NBA but they aren’t held hostage by players nearly as often as occurs in football. As an American it is always wild to me that a player under contract can just easily force a move in most cases, effectively disregarding his agreement. I expect it comes from there just being so many different leagues and options whereas the NFL is only that one league really and can better regulate those things.

Put yourself in the players shoes though. Your family is settled in California, your kids are in school and have friends. You get transferred to Chicago without any say in the matter whatsoever. Aren’t those players held hostage just as much as our football clubs are? 
 

(all of the hostages in both scenarios are well paid, apart from lower leagues)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, StevO said:

Put yourself in the players shoes though. Your family is settled in California, your kids are in school and have friends. You get transferred to Chicago without any say in the matter whatsoever. Aren’t those players held hostage just as much as our football clubs are? 
 

(all of the hostages in both scenarios are well paid, apart from lower leagues)

That’s the system they knowingly signed up for. As you point out they are obscenely paid for the privilege. I get that it’s difficult for them and their families to move like that but it’s their choice to play these sports. Go be an accountant if you don’t like it. The difference is these are leagues with 32 teams or less. If players could just decide they will never be traded to certain markets the parity gal would grow hugely and you’d get something like the Premier League where half the league or more has realistically no chance at ever winning a title. We also have drafts here that try to balance things a bit more. Pros and Cons to both systems but having a league worth more parity where every team has a chance to build themselves  into a perennial winner is preferable to me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see it as a pointless clause. the selling club don't know yet that the player won't want to come back and the clause at least gives them first refusal. The reason the player was willing to leave in the first place was more than likely playing time. if he proves his quality it would stand to reason that he can get back into the selling clubs plans. 

none of the parties are forced into anything but all the parties are protecting their interests as best they can. That woild include us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Goodison Glory said:

I don't see it as a pointless clause. the selling club don't know yet that the player won't want to come back and the clause at least gives them first refusal. The reason the player was willing to leave in the first place was more than likely playing time. if he proves his quality it would stand to reason that he can get back into the selling clubs plans. 

none of the parties are forced into anything but all the parties are protecting their interests as best they can. That woild include us.

Well, the player has first refusal. The original club’s only advantage is having a set price with the new club. A player could still just test the open market as he wishes. I’m not saying there is no point in the clause, just that it’s far from a sure thing. I suppose if you’re Barca you could always say hey let’s sign you to more money when you come back and then if we sell you’ll still be on higher wages. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The club does have first refusal though. The players can then refuse, but that's still not first...it's second. 
 

For me it's about hedging and with hedging there are no guarantees just limiting risk.

lets Use Garner as the example:

You may ask, Why don't Man Utd loan him so they can guarantee he comes back - well there may not be a market for just a loan or man utd might want the money now while his stock is high. They might be betting that he does not yield the potential that we see, however they are hedging that if he does they have a chance to buy him back before any other club can AND Everton can't do anything about it / yes they still have to get the player to agree to come back, but they are taking two risks out of the equation - an escalated fee, Everton wouldn't want to sell.

so the buy back is a way of complying with labour laws but limiting risk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Goodison Glory said:

The club does have first refusal though. The players can then refuse, but that's still not first...it's second. 
 

For me it's about hedging and with hedging there are no guarantees just limiting risk.

lets Use Garner as the example:

You may ask, Why don't Man Utd loan him so they can guarantee he comes back - well there may not be a market for just a loan or man utd might want the money now while his stock is high. They might be betting that he does not yield the potential that we see, however they are hedging that if he does they have a chance to buy him back before any other club can AND Everton can't do anything about it / yes they still have to get the player to agree to come back, but they are taking two risks out of the equation - an escalated fee, Everton wouldn't want to sell.

so the buy back is a way of complying with labour laws but limiting risk.

Well, if the player can decide to not come back to the selling club I guess I don’t see how the club has the first option. They lock in a price and have an advantage negotiations but it’s up to player whether he returns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd imagine he'll be cover for Gueye at the moment but will get some game time and maybe get starts once bedded in on games where we'd expect to dominate more as he can from the sound of it offer more than Gueye in terms of all round play.

Wonder how Warrington feels about this as he may have hoped to have been closer to getting game time but this surely pushes him back a bit.  Not too worried as he's only 19 but then Garner is only 21.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

The club seemed to have upped their game when it comes to recruitment and negotiation skills.

I know they are not the same type of player, but when you look at the price of MWG who is a young player who had a great season shining on loan in the Championship, it does put in perspective both the fee up front and potential add ons. 

Our midfield appear to have been totally transformed this transfer window. Taken a bit of time, but I am very happy with the make up and profile of the player that are been brought in. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

Our midfield appear to have been totally transformed this transfer window. Taken a bit of time, but I am very happy with the make up and profile of the player that are been brought in. 

I don't think any of us can complain on that front. A massive upgrade on last season - with options off the bench. All on Frank now.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Formby said:

I don't think any of us can complain on that front. A massive upgrade on last season - with options off the bench. All on Frank now.  

Was thinking this last night. It's seemingly been a brilliant window, so all the pressure is on him to get them to perform. If Moshiri and the fans can give him time that is. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Formby said:

I'm sure they will. Frank has shown what he can do with players like Iwobi. I have great faith in him.

Here is a question. Let’s say we get chuk-wagon and these others. More options now. How does Frank actually want to play? So much has been done out of necessity. What is his vision? What type of Everton does he want?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, FairWooney said:

I'd imagine he'll be cover for Gueye at the moment but will get some game time and maybe get starts once bedded in on games where we'd expect to dominate more as he can from the sound of it offer more than Gueye in terms of all round play.

Wonder how Warrington feels about this as he may have hoped to have been closer to getting game time but this surely pushes him back a bit.  Not too worried as he's only 19 but then Garner is only 21.

I think with 5 subs now it will allow both Gana, Garner, Onana, Iwobi and even Doucoure to get plenty of game time in a midfield three.  Gana is not going to have to play 90mins every game and neither are our 21 year olds. This looks so so much better and significantly more mobile than Allan, Doucoure, Gomes, Delph and Davies that we started last season with.

29 minutes ago, Matt said:

Was thinking this last night. It's seemingly been a brilliant window, so all the pressure is on him to get them to perform. If Moshiri and the fans can give him time that is. 

It will not all gel overnight (just like with Arteta's Arsenals rebuild), especially considering two of those we are taking about have not even been confirmed as signed yet - but in 6months and then again in 12 months time I would hope to be seeing a ever increasing level of general team play at the club. 

No point in jumping up and down in only a months- 6weeks time if we are not yet performing like a well oiled machine, but I am sure we will develop game on game and grow in both ability and confidence as a team. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

I think with 5 subs now it will allow both Gana, Garner, Onana, Iwobi and even Doucoure to get plenty of game time in a midfield three.  Gana is not going to have to play 90mins every game and neither are our 21 year olds. This looks so so much better and significantly more mobile than Allan, Doucoure, Gomes, Delph and Davies that we started last season with.

It will not all gel overnight (just like with Arteta's Arsenals rebuild), especially considering two of those we are taking about have not even been confirmed as signed yet - but in 6months and then again in 12 months time I would hope to be seeing a ever increasing level of general team play at the club. 

No point in jumping up and down in only a months- 6weeks time if we are not yet performing like a well oiled machine, but I am sure we will develop game on game and grow in both ability and confidence as a team. 

Exactly my point and I really hope Moshiri and the fans look to Arsenal as an example to follow. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, StevO said:

He wants us to be able to play 523, 433 and maybe even 442. We need to be adaptable to different situations. 
 

He wants high press. Maupay, DCL, Gordon, McNeil, Gray, Iwobi and Gana are all very capable of this. 
 

I’m sure he would like more possession too. Iwobi, Onana, Garner, Patterson, McNeil, DCL and Maupay can hopefully do a bit of this too. 
 

Expect high tempo and high work rate as the team settles. Then hopefully more football as the team grows. 
 

One way or another, Frank and Kevin definitely have a plan they are working towards. 

Its a plan I can get behind. 

Hopefully the the days of anybody in the starting 11 not showing anything less 100% on that pitch should now become a thing of the past. You stroll around or don't put in a proper shift in will mean you will well and truly get hooked off the pitch.

It's also now looks like a squad with far less over paid and over hyped players in it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, StevO said:

He wants us to be able to play 523, 433 and maybe even 442. We need to be adaptable to different situations. 
 

He wants high press. Maupay, DCL, Gordon, McNeil, Gray, Iwobi and Gana are all very capable of this. 
 

I’m sure he would like more possession too. Iwobi, Onana, Garner, Patterson, McNeil, DCL and Maupay can hopefully do a bit of this too. 
 

Expect high tempo and high work rate as the team settles. Then hopefully more football as the team grows. 
 

One way or another, Frank and Kevin definitely have a plan they are working towards. 

Excellent window regardless. Would have loved to get Kudus and I do think some attacking help on the wing completes the window but overall we did a lot of business both in and out and got both promising youth and reliable experience. Will take a while to mesh but, on paper, it’s a job well done. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Goodison Glory said:

Nice try.....but you're in the Garner thread not the Gana thread......LOL.

Quit while your behind Shukes 🙃

Gana, Garner, both sound the same 😉

No, it’s in reply to the interview comment mate. Gana just did his and said he would give his soul to the club. 
Cornish mentioned the statutory interview incoming…..hence the comment 🙂

But the Pun was poor haha, I’m not known for my comedy….. it’s almost as bad as Baileys stat analysis 😳

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...