RuffRob Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 45 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: well if that right, then I think this would be a cracking bit of business. it sounded like a fair few club where have been interested in him. He could quite easily be this seasons 'Conor Gallagher'. He has a fair bit of Championship experience for a 21 year old (around 80 games), and his play last season seemed to go up a level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyBlue Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, StevO said: Absolutely this. On Geri, im pretty sure we had just loaned him out to AC Milan anyway, not like they pulled him out of our starting line up. Garner though, nice! If the player gets a choice I don’t see the point of a buy back clause. I can see that they have to reach terms with the player but I don’t see how they could choose to stay once the buy back is met. Perhaps I’m wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said: If the player gets a choice I don’t see the point of a buy back clause. I can see that they have to reach terms with the player but I don’t see how they could choose to stay once the buy back is met. Perhaps I’m wrong though. The point of the buy back clause gives the selling club, United in this case, the opportunity to agree a price now. So they could sell him to us now for £15m with a £20m buy back clause. Two years from now he could be worth £50m, but they have the price locked in. Some buy back clauses are as simple as they have to be informed of any other bids for the player and can then choose to match it or not. But the player might choose another club anyway. It never guarantees them the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 10 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said: If the player gets a choice I don’t see the point of a buy back clause. I can see that they have to reach terms with the player but I don’t see how they could choose to stay once the buy back is met. Perhaps I’m wrong though. It’s not like it can be in the NBA or NFL when the team decides to transfer a player they have to go. They can never force a player to move here, or most of football really. Not sure if MLS follow the NBA or NFL model though. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyBlue Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 minute ago, StevO said: The point of the buy back clause gives the selling club, United in this case, the opportunity to agree a price now. So they could sell him to us now for £15m with a £20m buy back clause. Two years from now he could be worth £50m, but they have the price locked in. Some buy back clauses are as simple as they have to be informed of any other bids for the player and can then choose to match it or not. But the player might choose another club anyway. It never guarantees them the player. I understand the premise economically. But if the player just says “Nah” it’s pretty toothless. My presumption was that if they buy back the player he is theirs and they have to reach personal terms or sell him elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyBlue Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 minute ago, StevO said: It’s not like it can be in the NBA or NFL when the team decides to transfer a player they have to go. They can never force a player to move here, or most of football really. Not sure if MLS follow the NBA or NFL model though. One reason more parity exists in those leagues I would say. You sometimes get holdouts in the NFL or NBA but they aren’t held hostage by players nearly as often as occurs in football. As an American it is always wild to me that a player under contract can just easily force a move in most cases, effectively disregarding his agreement. I expect it comes from there just being so many different leagues and options whereas the NFL is only that one league really and can better regulate those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said: One reason more parity exists in those leagues I would say. You sometimes get holdouts in the NFL or NBA but they aren’t held hostage by players nearly as often as occurs in football. As an American it is always wild to me that a player under contract can just easily force a move in most cases, effectively disregarding his agreement. I expect it comes from there just being so many different leagues and options whereas the NFL is only that one league really and can better regulate those things. Put yourself in the players shoes though. Your family is settled in California, your kids are in school and have friends. You get transferred to Chicago without any say in the matter whatsoever. Aren’t those players held hostage just as much as our football clubs are? (all of the hostages in both scenarios are well paid, apart from lower leagues) Romey 1878 and London Blue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyBlue Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 20 minutes ago, StevO said: Put yourself in the players shoes though. Your family is settled in California, your kids are in school and have friends. You get transferred to Chicago without any say in the matter whatsoever. Aren’t those players held hostage just as much as our football clubs are? (all of the hostages in both scenarios are well paid, apart from lower leagues) That’s the system they knowingly signed up for. As you point out they are obscenely paid for the privilege. I get that it’s difficult for them and their families to move like that but it’s their choice to play these sports. Go be an accountant if you don’t like it. The difference is these are leagues with 32 teams or less. If players could just decide they will never be traded to certain markets the parity gal would grow hugely and you’d get something like the Premier League where half the league or more has realistically no chance at ever winning a title. We also have drafts here that try to balance things a bit more. Pros and Cons to both systems but having a league worth more parity where every team has a chance to build themselves into a perennial winner is preferable to me. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodison Glory Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 I don't see it as a pointless clause. the selling club don't know yet that the player won't want to come back and the clause at least gives them first refusal. The reason the player was willing to leave in the first place was more than likely playing time. if he proves his quality it would stand to reason that he can get back into the selling clubs plans. none of the parties are forced into anything but all the parties are protecting their interests as best they can. That woild include us. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyBlue Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, Goodison Glory said: I don't see it as a pointless clause. the selling club don't know yet that the player won't want to come back and the clause at least gives them first refusal. The reason the player was willing to leave in the first place was more than likely playing time. if he proves his quality it would stand to reason that he can get back into the selling clubs plans. none of the parties are forced into anything but all the parties are protecting their interests as best they can. That woild include us. Well, the player has first refusal. The original club’s only advantage is having a set price with the new club. A player could still just test the open market as he wishes. I’m not saying there is no point in the clause, just that it’s far from a sure thing. I suppose if you’re Barca you could always say hey let’s sign you to more money when you come back and then if we sell you’ll still be on higher wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodison Glory Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 The club does have first refusal though. The players can then refuse, but that's still not first...it's second. For me it's about hedging and with hedging there are no guarantees just limiting risk. lets Use Garner as the example: You may ask, Why don't Man Utd loan him so they can guarantee he comes back - well there may not be a market for just a loan or man utd might want the money now while his stock is high. They might be betting that he does not yield the potential that we see, however they are hedging that if he does they have a chance to buy him back before any other club can AND Everton can't do anything about it / yes they still have to get the player to agree to come back, but they are taking two risks out of the equation - an escalated fee, Everton wouldn't want to sell. so the buy back is a way of complying with labour laws but limiting risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 Have we signed him yet though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodison Glory Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 Just now, StevO said: Have we signed him yet though? Not that I'm aware of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 We need some of our old emoji back, and a new one of someone repeatedly headbutting a wall like they have in Skype... StevO and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 Matt and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 There are too many I want to post. No more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyBlue Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 27 minutes ago, Goodison Glory said: The club does have first refusal though. The players can then refuse, but that's still not first...it's second. For me it's about hedging and with hedging there are no guarantees just limiting risk. lets Use Garner as the example: You may ask, Why don't Man Utd loan him so they can guarantee he comes back - well there may not be a market for just a loan or man utd might want the money now while his stock is high. They might be betting that he does not yield the potential that we see, however they are hedging that if he does they have a chance to buy him back before any other club can AND Everton can't do anything about it / yes they still have to get the player to agree to come back, but they are taking two risks out of the equation - an escalated fee, Everton wouldn't want to sell. so the buy back is a way of complying with labour laws but limiting risk. Well, if the player can decide to not come back to the selling club I guess I don’t see how the club has the first option. They lock in a price and have an advantage negotiations but it’s up to player whether he returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, StevO said: There are too many I want to post. No more. How about some emoijs? Nice gifs though StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 no buy back! Greet deal that!!! c1982, London Blue, Matt and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 A Forest fan’s view… ”Quality player. Very good passer, good engine and tackling has improved. Gutted you’re getting him.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 Our central midfield has gone from:- gomes, Allan, Davies, doucs and Delph. to gana, garner, Onana, Alan, doucs, Davies, iwobi (he wasn’t used as midfielder so I’d like a new player) dunlopp9987, Matt Tiger, StevO and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Matt said: How about some emoijs? Nice gifs though Don’t you do TT on an iPhone or iPad? Loads of emojis. Just not the one you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 23 minutes ago, StevO said: Don’t you do TT on an iPhone or iPad? Loads of emojis. Just not the one you want. Android now, dumped Apple 18 months ago thankfully. Still think we're missing some that we used to have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 1, 2022 Report Share Posted September 1, 2022 London Blue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 1, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2022 Matt and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted September 1, 2022 Report Share Posted September 1, 2022 Onana, Garner & Warrington has us pretty well stocked for young central midfielders now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWooney Posted September 1, 2022 Report Share Posted September 1, 2022 I'd imagine he'll be cover for Gueye at the moment but will get some game time and maybe get starts once bedded in on games where we'd expect to dominate more as he can from the sound of it offer more than Gueye in terms of all round play. Wonder how Warrington feels about this as he may have hoped to have been closer to getting game time but this surely pushes him back a bit. Not too worried as he's only 19 but then Garner is only 21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 1, 2022 Report Share Posted September 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, Btay said: Onana, Garner & Warrington has us pretty well stocked for young central midfielders now. Warrington is available on loan once these deals go through apparently. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted September 1, 2022 Report Share Posted September 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Romey 1878 said: Warrington is available on loan once these deals go through apparently. Rightly so mate, needs a good season of footy and hopefully comes back into the first team fold next year. Romey 1878 and RuffRob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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