New Shirt Sponsor

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, patto said:

do people actually think if we weren't it would make a difference to people's gambling habits.

Do you actually think gambling companies would be laying out multi-millions of pounds if they didn't think they'd get the money back (and more) in increased revenues? They're not giving us the money out of the goodness of their heart!

[Romey 1878]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/06/09/everton-sign-record-shirt-sponsorship-deal-gambling-firm-spite/

[Hoof_It_Nev]

I don't think at this point it's really encouraging people to gamble who don't already. It's more to do with gambling companies getting more market exposure over competitors. I don't see an issue with it from that perspective. 

[Gwlad]

21 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Do you actually think gambling companies would be laying out multi-millions of pounds if they didn't think they'd get the money back (and more) in increased revenues? They're not giving us the money out of the goodness of their heart!

Precisely. They have to be visible out there where their competitors are. Unstoppable train at the moment.

[Cornish Steve]

49 minutes ago, StevO said:

It wasn’t the UK government. Do you really not read any links Steve?

There's a Conservative party in Kenya.

(although I didn't know that until I just looked it up!)

[Cornish Steve]

18 minutes ago, Hoof_It_Nev said:

I don't think at this point it's really encouraging people to gamble who don't already. It's more to do with gambling companies getting more market exposure over competitors. I don't see an issue with it from that perspective. 

Years ago, I remember asking why Mars corporation spends a fortune on advertising when everyone knows what they sell. Mars bars are ubiquitous. It turns out, Mars is one of the most sophisticated marketing companies around, and their advertising campaigns make a huge difference to sales. The same will undoubtedly be true for gambling companies. They'll make more out of this, net, than they'll be spending.

[Zoo 2.0]

52 minutes ago, StevO said:

The size of the sponsor logo is limited by premier league rules anyway. 

Watford were in the Premier League last season, when they had Stake as their sponsor .

[Matt]

47 minutes ago, Hoof_It_Nev said:

I don't think at this point it's really encouraging people to gamble who don't already. It's more to do with gambling companies getting more market exposure over competitors. I don't see an issue with it from that perspective. 

Maybe, but people may be tempted that can't afford it, there will be addicts who will have it in their face when they're watching the game. There's no real justification for it and no defence of it. Socially accepted yet dangerous, life-ruining addictions should not be advertised. Tobacco ads were banned to reduced the damage on people, alcohol and gambling should be too. 

[Romey 1878]

19 minutes ago, Matt said:

Maybe, but people may be tempted that can't afford it, there will be addicts who will have it in their face when they're watching the game. There's no real justification for it and no defence of it. Socially accepted yet dangerous, life-ruining addictions should not be advertised. Tobacco ads were banned to reduced the damage on people, alcohol and gambling should be too. 

There’ll probably be offers from Stake sent to season ticket holders etc as well.

[patto]

I go to every home game and I can honestly say I’ve never once noticed a sponsor on the opposite teams shirt I’m there for the football not to look at the other teams sponsor. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

Watford were in the Premier League last season, when they had Stake as their sponsor .

I know that, what I meant was their sponsor won’t have been any bigger than anyone else. They will all want it as big as possible. 

[StevO]

9 minutes ago, patto said:

I go to every home game and I can honestly say I’ve never once noticed a sponsor on the opposite teams shirt I’m there for the football not to look at the other teams sponsor. 

But you know who Everton’s sponsor was didn’t you? As did 90% of the people in the stadium. Sponsorship isn’t just for when they are in the pitch during a match. 

[patto]

2 hours ago, RuffRob said:

What on earth has Ukraine war got to do with people being disappointed that club have a online gambling and cryptocurrency broker?

Gambling is not a healthy habit, like junk food, alcohol or even vaping or smoking - they can be dangerous.  Now as a club we are actively promoting it, simply because it brings in an extra £4-5M. Like many have pointed out - the kids who support the club just can't have the same kits this year as their players.  

Government currently looking in to banning this type of sponsorship and rightly so - It's not illegal -yet, because essentially it not really right otherwise these conversations would not be happening.

I definitely made it worse making a point of no longer being sponsor by SportPesa. 

I know the vast majority of us will not go straight to Stake.com and start betting - but some might have a mooch on to the sites and have a dabble and the club is normalising gambling and particularly online gambling as essentially a healthy past time.

The advertising must work otherwise they would not be paying Everton a handsome £10M a year to be on the front of our shirt. Their money is purely made back through encouraging peoples gambling habits. 

Its not great this controversial news being announced less than 24hrs after Moshiri's statement about mistakes being made etc - todays news just make me think blah, blah, blah as many still don't really get this club and its supporters.

I realise its a lot easier to be moral when you can afford to, and we are very much on our arses big time at the moment - so maybe a few have just put their heads down and looked a bit sheepish while the cheque was being signed. I get it. lets hope this extra £5m or so make a difference next season for us and does allow us as a club to be a little more moral in better times.  

 

 

What I’m trying to say is there’s more important things to be concerned about than shirt sponsorship. 

[MikeO]

35 minutes ago, patto said:

What I’m trying to say is there’s more important things to be concerned about than shirt sponsorship. 

Of course there are but that doesn't mean you stop being concerned about lesser things; people are rightly worried about Ukraine but we don't all go round thinking of nothing else all day.

[patto]

13 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Of course there are but that doesn't mean you stop being concerned about lesser things; people are rightly worried about Ukraine but we don't all go round thinking of nothing else all day.

Neither do I 

[MikeO]

23 minutes ago, patto said:

Neither do I 

So what was the point of bringing it into the discussion? It's irrelevant in regards to the thing we're talking about.

[patto]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

So what was the point of bringing it into the discussion? It's irrelevant in regards to the thing we're talking about.

Zzzzzzzzz not going there fish somewhere else

[MikeO]

1 minute ago, patto said:

Zzzzzzzzz not going there fish somewhere else

No fishing but fair enough; it was you who instigated the war relevance to the conversation, I just responded.

Sleep well.

[SpartyBlue]

On 09/06/2022 at 13:18, Cornish Steve said:

Years ago, I remember asking why Mars corporation spends a fortune on advertising when everyone knows what they sell. Mars bars are ubiquitous. It turns out, Mars is one of the most sophisticated marketing companies around, and their advertising campaigns make a huge difference to sales. The same will undoubtedly be true for gambling companies. They'll make more out of this, net, than they'll be spending.

Obviously they aren’t going to spend money on something that won’t help them. It’s just less about appealing to addicts and children than it is getting wider exposure for their brand in general. They want people to know who they are. Being on our shirt increases the likelihood of that and exposes them to people already predisposed to gamble. 

[SpartyBlue]

On 09/06/2022 at 12:32, RuffRob said:

What on earth has Ukraine war got to do with people being disappointed that club have a online gambling and cryptocurrency broker?

Gambling is not a healthy habit, like junk food, alcohol or even vaping or smoking - they can be dangerous.  Now as a club we are actively promoting it, simply because it brings in an extra £4-5M. Like many have pointed out - the kids who support the club just can't have the same kits this year as their players.  

Government currently looking in to banning this type of sponsorship and rightly so - It's not illegal -yet, because essentially it not really right otherwise these conversations would not be happening.

I definitely made it worse making a point of no longer being sponsor by SportPesa. 

I know the vast majority of us will not go straight to Stake.com and start betting - but some might have a mooch on to the sites and have a dabble and the club is normalising gambling and particularly online gambling as essentially a healthy past time.

The advertising must work otherwise they would not be paying Everton a handsome £10M a year to be on the front of our shirt. Their money is purely made back through encouraging peoples gambling habits. 

Its not great this controversial news being announced less than 24hrs after Moshiri's statement about mistakes being made etc - todays news just make me think blah, blah, blah as many still don't really get this club and its supporters.

I realise its a lot easier to be moral when you can afford to, and we are very much on our arses big time at the moment - so maybe a few have just put their heads down and looked a bit sheepish while the cheque was being signed. I get it. lets hope this extra £5m or so make a difference next season for us and does allow us as a club to be a little more moral in better times.  

 

 

You’re equating things that aren’t quite the same here. Smoking is inherently dangerous. Nicotine is a poison. Gambling, alcohol or cheeseburgers are not inherently dangerous. The vast majority of people who deal with those things are perfectly fine.

It’s about personal responsibility. You can hurt yourself if you drink too much water or eat too many carrots. People huff paint or put on unhealthy weight eating ice cream. It is not incumbent on these industries to protect the world from abusing their products. Should we ban McDonald’s because they might contribute to someone’s high cholesterol? If somebody has a destructive relationship with gambling it’s a hard sell to say the word “Stake” on a shirt is what is going to send them the over the edge. If you’re an alcoholic and the image of a pint pushes you off the wagon then you were already in desperate need of help. 
 

Aside from that can’t you already bet on games from within English football stadiums? Your personal thoughts on these things is your own business but it seems the ship has sailed on these issues long ago both as a club and as a league. I’m sympathetic to those who struggle with addiction issues but  it’s not realistic to shutter yourself away from the world or expect society to cater itself to your sensibilities.

[Bailey]

Playing devils advocate a little here, but where does this stop? 

Certain foods are unhealthy.

Cars can be dangerous.

Airplanes/travel are bad for the planet.

Every product advertised aims at getting you to spend money on something you probably dont need. Lots of people do these things to excess and get themselves in all sorts of trouble (health, debt, injury etc) but the majority dont. 

If it is a legal activity, why should any business be restricted in their advertising? 

Finally, is there also any evidence that supports that a restriction of advertising promotes the behavioural change expected? I think I may have seen something about junk food advertising and children, but I haven't seen anything about adult behaviour. Afterall, harder drugs havent been advertised anywhere and their use has increased significantly over the years. 

This doesnt take away the hypocrisy with the club and their comments about Sport Pesa and I also generally believe they should be looking at better causes to advertise given the type of club that we are aiming to be. 

 

[Matt]

11 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

You’re equating things that aren’t quite the same here. Smoking is inherently dangerous. Nicotine is a poison. Gambling, alcohol or cheeseburgers are not inherently dangerous. The vast majority of people who deal with those things are perfectly fine.

It’s about personal responsibility. You can hurt yourself if you drink too much water or eat too many carrots. People huff paint or put on unhealthy weight eating ice cream. It is not incumbent on these industries to protect the world from abusing their products. Should we ban McDonald’s because they might contribute to someone’s high cholesterol? If somebody has a destructive relationship with gambling it’s a hard sell to say the word “Stake” on a shirt is what is going to send them the over the edge. If you’re an alcoholic and the image of a pint pushes you off the wagon then you were already in desperate need of help. 
 

Aside from that can’t you already bet on games from within English football stadiums? Your personal thoughts on these things is your own business but it seems the ship has sailed on these issues long ago both as a club and as a league. I’m sympathetic to those who struggle with addiction issues but  it’s not realistic to shutter yourself away from the world or expect society to cater itself to your sensibilities.

That's just not remotely true, especially alcohol. Not sure of your background but doesn't sound like you understand addiction based on that (posting as someone whos now been sober 19 months and fought addictios all his life).

[SpartyBlue]

37 minutes ago, Matt said:

That's just not remotely true, especially alcohol. Not sure of your background but doesn't sound like you understand addiction based on that (posting as someone whos now been sober 19 months and fought addictios all his life).

They are dangerous when abused. They are dangerous to addicts. The significant majority of people can have a beer or a cheeseburger or place a sports bet and be just fine. The distinction between those things and something like nicotine is that nicotine is inherently damaging. There is no safe way ingest nicotine. It’s a poison. Having a glass of wine doesn’t have that same effect.

Again, I’m sympathetic to those that battle addiction but it is not a substance that is destructive in moderation any more than an occasional cheeseburger is. It becomes an issue when it is abused or for those who have an addiction.
 

If we are comparing these things to gambling specifically I certainly think alcohol abuse and addiction is far more destructive to society than gambling.  

 

 

[Hafnia]

4 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

They are dangerous when abused. They are dangerous to addicts. The significant majority of people can have a beer or a cheeseburger or place a sports bet and be just fine. The distinction between those things and something like nicotine is that nicotine is inherently damaging. There is no safe way ingest nicotine. It’s a poison. Having a glass of wine doesn’t have that same effect.

Again, I’m sympathetic to those that battle addiction but it is not a substance that is destructive in moderation any more than an occasional cheeseburger is. It becomes an issue when it is abused or for those who have an addiction.
 

If we are comparing these things to gambling specifically I certainly think alcohol abuse and addiction is far more destructive to society than gambling.  

 

 

“Normalising” alcohol is one of the biggest stains on mankind.   It is without doubt the most destructive drug there is. Not because of its one off use, but because society makes it so that near every event involved alcohol….. wet the babies head, stag party, toast the bride and groom, give someone a drink who is in shock.   Most murders involve alcohol. 
 

a large percentage of people are born in a way that their brains eventually will become dependant on drink.  If you release endorphins when you drink - you will become an alcoholic if you continue to drink regularly.   If you gamble and the same thing happens - you will become addicted to gambling.  It’s not a habit, it’s a chemical dependency where the brain needs the endorphins that the pattern of abuse. Very very scary. 

[Matt]

8 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

They are dangerous when abused. They are dangerous to addicts. The significant majority of people can have a beer or a cheeseburger or place a sports bet and be just fine. The distinction between those things and something like nicotine is that nicotine is inherently damaging. There is no safe way ingest nicotine. It’s a poison. Having a glass of wine doesn’t have that same effect.

Again, I’m sympathetic to those that battle addiction but it is not a substance that is destructive in moderation any more than an occasional cheeseburger is. It becomes an issue when it is abused or for those who have an addiction.
 

If we are comparing these things to gambling specifically I certainly think alcohol abuse and addiction is far more destructive to society than gambling.  

 

 

I know what you mean, but it really isn't that simple. I worked as a bookie, saw people come off their taxi shifts and basically give us all their earnings for the night. I saw people breaking down and being taken away by police because they'd lost. 

Alcohol is a poison too, inherently damaging. I would've been killed by that much quicker than nicotine. Its all about how quick your body can recover from the poison (your body cleans your lungs just like your liver, just slower). Just that alcohol is more socially accepted (and actively encouraged in this country sadly). 

Gambling is much more of a mental addiction I agree, but it's still an addiction which can have dire and more immediate consequences for the gambler most notably depression (which can lead to more physical addictions too).

[StevO]

12 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

They are dangerous when abused. They are dangerous to addicts. The significant majority of people can have a beer or a cheeseburger or place a sports bet and be just fine. The distinction between those things and something like nicotine is that nicotine is inherently damaging. There is no safe way ingest nicotine. It’s a poison. Having a glass of wine doesn’t have that same effect.

Again, I’m sympathetic to those that battle addiction but it is not a substance that is destructive in moderation any more than an occasional cheeseburger is. It becomes an issue when it is abused or for those who have an addiction.
 

If we are comparing these things to gambling specifically I certainly think alcohol abuse and addiction is far more destructive to society than gambling.  

 

 

Isn’t alcohol also a poison like nicotine? Or at least a toxin? 

I know I’ve never had a hangover from a cheeseburger though, and trust me, I’ve bloody tried my best!

[SpartyBlue]

1 minute ago, Hafnia said:

“Normalising” alcohol is one of the biggest stains on mankind.   It is without doubt the most destructive drug there is. Not because of its one off use, but because society makes it so that near every event involved alcohol….. wet the babies head, stag party, toast the bride and groom, give someone a drink who is in shock.   Most murders involve alcohol. 
 

a large percentage of people are born in a way that their brains eventually will become dependant on drink.  If you release endorphins when you drink - you will become an alcoholic if you continue to drink regularly.   If you gamble and the same thing happens - you will become addicted to gambling.  It’s not a habit, it’s a chemical dependency where the brain needs the endorphins that the pattern of abuse. Very very scary. 

I agree alcohol is about as a destructive a thing to our society as exists. My point was simply that it isn’t inherently dangerous. It is dangerous in excess. Heroin or nicotine or various other substances are inherently harmful.

[Palfy]

54 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

You’re equating things that aren’t quite the same here. Smoking is inherently dangerous. Nicotine is a poison. Gambling, alcohol or cheeseburgers are not inherently dangerous. The vast majority of people who deal with those things are perfectly fine.

It’s about personal responsibility. You can hurt yourself if you drink too much water or eat too many carrots. People huff paint or put on unhealthy weight eating ice cream. It is not incumbent on these industries to protect the world from abusing their products. Should we ban McDonald’s because they might contribute to someone’s high cholesterol? If somebody has a destructive relationship with gambling it’s a hard sell to say the word “Stake” on a shirt is what is going to send them the over the edge. If you’re an alcoholic and the image of a pint pushes you off the wagon then you were already in desperate need of help. 
 

Aside from that can’t you already bet on games from within English football stadiums? Your personal thoughts on these things is your own business but it seems the ship has sailed on these issues long ago both as a club and as a league. I’m sympathetic to those who struggle with addiction issues but  it’s not realistic to shutter yourself away from the world or expect society to cater itself to your sensibilities.

Never heard of alcohol poisoning then I take it, when you’re addiction is gambling drugs or drinking it’s not just the individual partaking in what ever vice that they maybe addicted to that is suffering, it’s their families who bare the brunt of their weaknesses, if advertising didn’t encourage people to gamble then why advertise, and for every so many new people attracted to these companies it will be the start of a devastating illness that will wreck many lives. 

[SpartyBlue]

2 minutes ago, StevO said:

Isn’t alcohol also a poison like nicotine? Or at least a toxin? 

I know I’ve never had a hangover from a cheeseburger though, and trust me, I’ve bloody tried my best!

It depends what you’re drinking I guess. Some types of alcohol not meant for ingestion obviously are toxic. The alcohol we drink is generally not in moderation. If you drink a dangerous amount it can be which is why we get alcohol poisoning or damage our livers. In small quantities some alcohol can actually be a benefit to circulation etc.. I’m sure we’ve all heard about the benefits of a glass of wine a day. 

[SpartyBlue]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Never heard of alcohol poisoning then I take it, when you’re addiction is gambling drugs or drinking it’s not just the individual partaking in what ever vice that they maybe addicted to that is suffering, it’s their families who bare the brunt of their weaknesses, if advertising didn’t encourage people to gamble then why advertise, and for every so many new people attracted to these companies it will be the start of a devastating illness that will wreck many lives. 

You’ve not read my response properly here. When you ABUSE alcohol or fatty foods or many other things it’s an issue. A couple of pints or a glass of wine is not inherently problematic. There is no safe amount of nicotine. It’s worse if you smoke a lot, of course, but it’s always poison. Most drinking alcohol is only toxic in large quantities.