F1 Chat

[Jimmy the blue]

Toyota front row, then Vettel, Button & Hamilton.

 

Toyota and Vettel will be light on fuel I'd have thought, Hamilton could get a flyer with KERS on board but I still think Jenson's the favourite. Hamilton could be in with a shout though.

 

Hamilton will win only to have his points taken away on Thursday

[MikeO]

Hamilton will win only to have his points taken away on Thursday

Unlikely I don't think....he's not personally charged with anything....but possible.

 

Toyota's are light, particularly Glock....got four laps less fuel than Button & Hamilton (who both have the same amount).

Trulli a couple of laps less than the Brits but Vettel is carrying more! Got probably three extra laps on them.

He's beginning to look like a hugely impressive driver!

[MikeO]

Faultless drive from Jenson, very impressive.

[Jimmy the blue]

Faultless drive from Jenson, very impressive.

 

Agreed Mike but in a perverse sort of way so was Hamilton's effort in a much slower car.................he is proving he can drive as well. Why Ferrari haven't got it right yet is baffling me

[MikeO]

Nice piece on Button .

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8022027.stm

[MikeO]

Four wins from five.

 

Button is the new Schumacher !

[CraccerC]

button is my favourite driver, but it's nothing to do with F1 it's based purely on the lifestyle.

 

good race from him today today

[aaron]

well done to Button again, 14 point lead now, he can fuck up next race and still be leading the way.

[StevO]

ferrari spitting their dummy out big time.

guess they arent so confident in a level playing field.

 

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12433_5317968,00.html

[Sporting4ever]

ferrari spitting their dummy out big time.

guess they arent so confident in a level playing field.

 

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12433_5317968,00.html

 

How is it that creating 2 different sets of rules is considered a level playing field?

 

What the new regulation intends is, the teams that keep operating as before have the same regulations has before, but teams that limit their budget to £40 million will have diferent rules, technological advantages over the others. Is this a level playing field?

 

And by the way, even though only Ferrari has made this bold statement, they're not alone. Toyota, BMW-Sauber and Red Bull are also against this new regulation, not to mention that EVERYONE is against the new rule of only awarding points to the race winners.

[StevO]

capping the budget is making more of a level playing field than they currently have.

[Sporting4ever]

capping the budget is making more of a level playing field than they currently have.

 

They're not capping the budgets. They're giving tech boosts to the teams that stay under 40 million. That's creating w sets of regulations. And Renault have gone public also saying that they will not join next year if the new regulations go into effect.

 

If Bernie pushes, and those teams don't back down, how interesting is gonna be to have an F1 without BMW, Renault of Ferrari?

[StevO]

so F1 cant be exciting without big names?

its bigger than ferarri and renault. its about the teams who do turn up, not the teams that dont.

[MikeO]

There are several potential new teams who'd come in if the cap is put in place.

 

Renault are really only notable for introducing turbo cars in the seventies and then a very short history as Benneton in the last decade....BMW were nothing more than engine suppliers until 2006. Neither would be a great loss.

Ferrari would be sad, but it would harm them more than F1 imo. There's nowhere else for them to go unless they set up a rival formula.

 

Going back people would have said that Alfa Romeo, Ligier, Tyrrell, Lotus & Brabham were irreplacable F1 marques but the sport goes on happily without them .

[Sporting4ever]

so F1 cant be exciting without big names?

its bigger than ferarri and renault. its about the teams who do turn up, not the teams that dont.

 

There are several potential new teams who'd come in if the cap is put in place.

 

Renault are really only notable for introducing turbo cars in the seventies and then a very short history as Benneton in the last decade....BMW were nothing more than engine suppliers until 2006. Neither would be a great loss.

Ferrari would be sad, but it would harm them more than F1 imo. There's nowhere else for them to go unless they set up a rival formula.

 

Going back people would have said that Alfa Romeo, Ligier, Tyrrell, Lotus & Brabham were irreplacable F1 marques but the sport goes on happily without them .

 

It's not a question of excitement or not. If Ferrari, Renault and Toyota bail out, that leaves BMW and Mercedes as engine manufacturers. IF they go, what engines are they gonna use?

 

Besides, right now, half the teams are poised to force the issue, Ferrari is already considering joining the Le Mans circuit.

 

And if those teams, or the entire FOTA (formula 1 Teams Association) desides to create a championship of their own, or join another, even if teams take over for the ones that left, you're gonna have a lot less engines, plus it's gonna make a lot less money, both in advertising and TV rights, not to mention the new competition arrising from whereever those teams go to.

[StevO]

ok, a long standing formula will suddenly die because the teams decide to just start their own. so after the FIA get involved in the new formula, how long until these ideas come back again.

if its that simple i guess the only problem in formula 1 is bernie eccleston?

its a fucking joke.

[Sporting4ever]

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/05/14/...-piero-ferrari/

 

I think this article reflects Ferrari's ideas regarding this new regulation...

 

I don't think it's Bernie or Max's fault, but doing things without consulting with the teams, and without their approval, is wrong. And, since the teams have the ability to decide whether they'll participate or not, and that their presence is important, it stands to reason that they should be a part of the process.

 

As things are now, half the teams have come out against this new regulation, and if Ferrari and Renault do indeed go through, I don't see the others backing down either.

[MikeO]

Are Ferrari not being a little hypocritical here..

 

"...if we are on the starting line of a Grand Prix, we have to stay within the same regulations, the same technical specifications."

They're quite happy to run KERS as an optional system (giving themselves a technical advantage) while other teams that don't have the resources to have developed it go without.

There was a "two tier" championship of a sort in the seventies when Renault (then others) ran with 1.5l V6 turbo engines against the 3l normally aspirated ones, they all ended up at pretty much the same pace.

[Sporting4ever]

Are Ferrari not being a little hypocritical here..

 

"...if we are on the starting line of a Grand Prix, we have to stay within the same regulations, the same technical specifications."

They're quite happy to run KERS as an optional system (giving themselves a technical advantage) while other teams that don't have the resources to have developed it go without.

There was a "two tier" championship of a sort in the seventies when Renault (then others) ran with 1.5l V6 turbo engines against the 3l normally aspirated ones, they all ended up at pretty much the same pace.

 

That's not the point. The point is, if they want to create a budget cap, make it a limit for everyone. If they want to create a tech limit, (like nascar and others) do it for everyone. This 2 rule system is not only much more contrevertial, it's nigh impossible to enforce properly.

 

So if FIA allow for these loopholes to exist, they should try and fix them, not create the possibilities for more loopholes to form and be exploited.

 

You mentioned optional systems, and then there's the tech lingo that allowed this dissipator crisis, so to, it's quite simple, create regulations that limit what they want to limit, because more gaps and divisions won't help.

[Jimmy the blue]

Ferrari have had that appeal thrown out by the French courts, quite rightly IMO. The capping idea has to be a good one in the present financial climate as too many team would be left without hope due to the vast wealth of a few.................now where else could this apply????????

[Sporting4ever]

Ferrari have had that appeal thrown out by the French courts, quite rightly IMO. The capping idea has to be a good one in the present financial climate as too many team would be left without hope due to the vast wealth of a few.................now where else could this apply????????

 

A limit on spending IS a good idea, but properly implemented, not creating 2 set of rules for those that can and those that can't. And in football, how would you apply it?? Teams under the cap would play with 12, or start with a goal in the net already?

[Jimmy the blue]

A limit on spending IS a good idea, but properly implemented, not creating 2 set of rules for those that can and those that can't. And in football, how would you apply it?? Teams under the cap would play with 12, or start with a goal in the net already?

 

 

What would Ferrari prefer SL, a total cap for all teams or this. The basic rule of thumb here is that if they are so good then surely work within the cap at which point they would be on an equal footing with everyone else but it seems that they rely on a financial advantage which they wish to maintain via the courts, tough shit IMO.

 

In this country rugby league is governed by capping and works well, how would Benitez, SAF et a go on if they had the same money as say Tony Pullis at Stoke.......................would they be the same lauded managers, I doubt it.

[Sporting4ever]

What would Ferrari prefer SL, a total cap for all teams or this. The basic rule of thumb here is that if they are so good then surely work within the cap at which point they would be on an equal footing with everyone else but it seems that they rely on a financial advantage which they wish to maintain via the courts, tough shit IMO.

 

In this country rugby league is governed by capping and works well, how would Benitez, SAF et a go on if they had the same money as say Tony Pullis at Stoke.......................would they be the same lauded managers, I doubt it.

 

 

Don't know if you read the link I posted earlier, but it says basically that. They're not opposed to a budget cap, they're opposed to 2 different sets of rules beeing applied. It's not the cap, it's the fact that it's optional, and that teams that go for it have a different set of rules to go by, and tech advantages the other teams don't.

 

So, like I said, imagine the same beeing applied to football. If your budget is bellow X, you can play with 12 players. Doesn't seem so fair now, does it?

 

Of course, without knowing exactly what the tech advantages would be a direct comparison like this is impossible, but it does give you the general idea.

 

And don't forget, a lot of people see this as a temper tantrum from ferrari, but they forget that toyota, red bull, toro rosso and renault are also against this rule, and renault have already said that they won't be in the next season. That leaves 2 engine manufacturers, bmw and mercedes, which is probably not enough for the whole teams.

[Jimmy the blue]

Don't know if you read the link I posted earlier, but it says basically that. They're not opposed to a budget cap, they're opposed to 2 different sets of rules beeing applied. It's not the cap, it's the fact that it's optional, and that teams that go for it have a different set of rules to go by, and tech advantages the other teams don't.

 

So, like I said, imagine the same beeing applied to football. If your budget is bellow X, you can play with 12 players. Doesn't seem so fair now, does it?

 

Of course, without knowing exactly what the tech advantages would be a direct comparison like this is impossible, but it does give you the general idea.

 

And don't forget, a lot of people see this as a temper tantrum from ferrari, but they forget that toyota, red bull, toro rosso and renault are also against this rule, and renault have already said that they won't be in the next season. That leaves 2 engine manufacturers, bmw and mercedes, which is probably not enough for the whole teams.

 

 

At no point do the laws say they have to spend over the cap, if they do it is their choice.................for that reason the civil law action would always fail. I support what the FIA have done

[Sporting4ever]

At no point do the laws say they have to spend over the cap, if they do it is their choice.................for that reason the civil law action would always fail. I support what the FIA have done

 

Any regulation that says that there's a budget cap, but only if you want it, leads to 2 sets of rules. If they want to limit spending, this is not the way to do it.

 

I agree with regards to the civil suit, it would always fail, but that's just a propaganda thing by ferrari, I think. Likewise, I also agree with limited spending, but not like this.

[MikeO]

Going to be an interesting qualifying in Monaco (in about 45 mins).

 

Final practice the big boys were fighting back, only two tenths of a second covering the first seven drivers...

 

Alonso

Button

Kovalainen

Barrichello

Massa

Raikkonen

Hamilton

[Romey 1878]

Hamilton royally fucked up his chances.

[Jimmy the blue]

Button on the most important pole of the season, nice one Jenson, Hammo back in 16th

[MikeO]

Button on the most important pole of the season, nice one Jenson, Hammo back in 16th

Chances are that Raikkonen will take the lead at the start though because he's next to Jenson with KERS at his disposal .

 

Fuel load will then decide it, all things being equal.....if Jenson can run longer that Raikkonen he should take it. Barrichello also may get another flyer from third. Hugely impressive from Button though.....again....pulled that lap seemingly out of nowhere.

[Jimmy the blue]

Chances are that Raikkonen will take the lead at the start though because he's next to Jenson with KERS at his disposal .

 

Fuel load will then decide it, all things being equal.....if Jenson can run longer that Raikkonen he should take it. Barrichello also may get another flyer from third. Hugely impressive from Button though.....again....pulled that lap seemingly out of nowhere.

 

 

That lap astonished everyone, including Button himself Mike

 

Years ago we were involved in a crash on the Monoco course.......................I kid you not, the bus we were in (well you didn't think I had a race car surely )had a mercedes go right up its arse. The police wanted to drag the bus driver off to nick and it wasn't his fault. They even tried to arrest me because I had taken my top off, it was sweltering and I flashed my man tits everywhere (they weren't so big then

Edited May 23, 2009 by Jimmy the blue