carlmc25 Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 alright, we all saw the shambles that was last night and the way in which our defence has been playing recently, assuming we have virtually the same squad to pick from (with AJ fit - as I expect) then I think we need to get back to basics on Sunday. We are 5th in the league (somehow) and we have played midweel, Newcastle will be all guns blazing at home to get a result and so I think Everton have to go back to 451 and grind out a result. McFadden has been superb recently but I'd either move him back into the Cahill role (supporting the attack) or give him a rest after his exertions, bring AJ in up front on his own where he plays best (Anichebe is a bit lazy for thr 451 I think) and get Carsley back into the team to help out the defence which looks like it's going to let in goals every time the opposition attacks. Yobo and Lescott to play and let's hope Yobo can find some confidence after his personal nightmare last night. Everton will always score goals, we have players like Arteta, McFadden, Lescott/Yobo in the air (with Arteta's exceptional set-pieces) AJ, Pienaar who can all hurt people, what we need is to start defending properly again and build from there, as we are never going to score loads of goals, but we'll always sneak one or two. I'd go 451, frustrate Newcastle big time then start to hit them on the break. -----------Howard-------------- Hibbo--Yobo--Lescott--Baines -----------Carsley-------------- Arteta--Neville--McFad--Pienaar --------------AJ----------------- This looks a little lightweight so possibly bring Arteta into CM in place of McFadden (I think Arteta does a fair bit defensively and he impressed me with his passing in the 2nd half last night) and POSSIBLY try a fresh VDM on the wing. McFadden worked very hard last night and I think his legs may be heavy. Pity Gravesen isn't back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Toad Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Howard Neville Yobo Lescott Baines Arteta Carsley Osman Pienaar AJ McFad 1-0 Osman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmc25 Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Howard Neville Yobo Lescott Baines Arteta Carsley Osman Pienaar AJ McFad 1-0 Osman didn't you see last nights match? That's the same midfield with the exception of Carsley in for Jags, plus our players will now be tired and Newcastle are a lot better than Metallist, we'd be thrashed with that team. Our defence is playing as bad as I've ever seen it, but partly that is also down to the abysmal support they are receiving from the likes of the depressingly awful Jagielka. We NEED to get back to defending as a team, if ever a game was crying out for the old 451 formation this is it - tired players, away from home, decent opposition where a draw is a decent result and a win would be absolutely fantastic. 451, it has to be imo (unless Gravesen is fit, which he isn't!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiemaher85 Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 this is gonna be a tough one, think that we will do well to get any kind of result here. Howard Hibbert Yobo Lescott Baines Arteta Neville Carsley Piennar Aj (if fit)or Mcfaddenpants and Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Toad Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 didn't you see last nights match? That's the same midfield with the exception of Carsley in for Jags, plus our players will now be tired and Newcastle are a lot better than Metallist, we'd be thrashed with that team. Our defence is playing as bad as I've ever seen it, but partly that is also down to the abysmal support they are receiving from the likes of the depressingly awful Jagielka. We NEED to get back to defending as a team, if ever a game was crying out for the old 451 formation this is it - tired players, away from home, decent opposition where a draw is a decent result and a win would be absolutely fantastic. 451, it has to be imo (unless Gravesen is fit, which he isn't!). I did indeed see the match last night. In reality the formation I would choose looks slightly different on the pitch ie. Howard Neville Yobo Lescott Baines Carsley Arteta Osman Pienaar AJ McFaddy I think Cars will make the reall difference. A player who breaks up opposistion play through the middle...something we defiantely lacked last night in Jags. The defending was really poor last night as both Stubbs and Yobo dived in at every opportunity with the Klingon back at CB i think Yobo will be slightly calmer. To beat the barcodes you have to pressure there weak defence. Long balls to an out of form AJ will not do this. Sure with 4-5-1 we will look better at the back but you can only defend so long untill someone makes a mistake. Learn from teams like Metalist and attack... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 im sticking by the Yak, him and Jimmy McSuperstar to play for me. and moyes, stop messing with the fullbacks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmc25 Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 I did indeed see the match last night. In reality the formation I would choose looks slightly different on the pitch ie. Howard Neville Yobo Lescott Baines Carsley Arteta Osman Pienaar AJ McFaddy I think Cars will make the reall difference. A player who breaks up opposistion play through the middle...something we defiantely lacked last night in Jags. The defending was really poor last night as both Stubbs and Yobo dived in at every opportunity with the Klingon back at CB i think Yobo will be slightly calmer. To beat the barcodes you have to pressure there weak defence. Long balls to an out of form AJ will not do this. Sure with 4-5-1 we will look better at the back but you can only defend so long untill someone makes a mistake. Learn from teams like Metalist and attack... that's where we disagree, Newcastle's defence is weak so there is no need to put out a particularly attacking team as we will always get chances against them, what we need to do is stop them getting chances at the other end. Our defence looks to have zero confidence and they need all the help they can get at the moment. 451 works for us if we have a pacy outlet (Johnson) who is a willing runner. Away from home with tired legs against a good(ish) team I think we have to go there and sit back and hit them on the break, no way will be able to force the play and no way will we be going at them all guns blazing. If we can frustrate them for 20 mins or so then we have a real chance, if we play into their hands with a really weak central midfield then we are in trouble. Newcastles midfield is nothing special, if we can men in there we can dominate and control the game, Johnson scores more goals up front on his own anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraccerC Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 2-0 to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRob Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Three wins on the bounce, and going great guns in all three cometitions (how the f*ck have we managed that? but we have) I would like to see a clean sheet on Sunday - We had a tough game in the furthest corner of europe, with a dodgy defensive display need to get back to the tough to beat tag. Jags is just not doing it for me. I would like to see 4-5-1 away to Newcastle -lets just protect this figile midfeild a little. Howard Hibbert - Yobo - Lesscott - Baines Neville - Carsley Arteta - Mc Fadden - Piennar AJ (if fit) If AJ is not fit then the Yak - I have slated him for last night performance (and rightly so) - But he is still in the early days of his Everon career so must be given playing time to blend into the team - and the team to him. This formation could easliy be swithced to 4-4-2 and plenty cover in the midfeild to allow the full backs to get forward. Very impressed with Baines forward play (mistified why he was left out last night!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin.jones Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 No reason to drop yak all that lasty night proved was Jags is not great in cm. I think get Jags at right back as below. Howard Jags Yobo Lescott Baines Spud Carsley Piernar Faddy AJ Yak I actually think we are going to drum them tomorrow 4-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBri Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 No reason to drop yak I disagree. Although some would argue that he hasn't had much servcie, I don't think he has made ANY effort to justify his summer transfer fee. Lazy style taken into account, he has not looked a potent threat against anyone yet and doesn't look comfortable. I agree that he needs a settling in period, but players struggling to settle are generally brought in gradually to let them build in confidence with the team. I think playing him on reputation alone is not a good enough reason, and with the team ethic that Everyone (meaning litereally everyone i.e. media and press) is talking about, continuing to persevere with a player who is not pulling his weight will cost us. We have other players that are playing with their hearts on their sleeves and doing a job, why should they make way for a player who just isn't right at the moment. Whether it is to give him a wake up call, or just to let him escape some pressure on the pitch, I wouldn't even have him on the bench on Sunday. Radical and maybe harsh, but if any player has ever been shown that they are in the slightest bit bigger than the club, it all ends in tears anyway. If he really wants to play, he will pull his socks up, take off his sleeping cap, pull his head out of his arse and actually try to show everyone, not just Everton, that he was worth the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Good post Bri ^^ I have always said i wont slag off a player because he has less talent than others, as long as he shows effort and commitment, but a player who doesnt give any effort at all, deserves a good slagging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin.jones Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Sorry but all this slating of Yak is typical of everton fans me included when is is not playing well he is sh@t when he is playing well he is a god. Make your Minds up!!! You have to bare with players sometimes and keep playing them believing they will sometime come good. Crouch at The shi@e he didn't score for 17 games and then we he does he is their biggest threat and then went to the worldcup as a great player. I think we should persist with yak and AJ and at some point it will work and when it does it will be great. I feel beattie was given harsh treatment by moyes as he wasn't given a chance with AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRob Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 I disagree. Although some would argue that he hasn't had much servcie, I don't think he has made ANY effort to justify his summer transfer fee. Lazy style taken into account, he has not looked a potent threat against anyone yet and doesn't look comfortable. I agree that he needs a settling in period, but players struggling to settle are generally brought in gradually to let them build in confidence with the team. I think playing him on reputation alone is not a good enough reason, and with the team ethic that Everyone (meaning litereally everyone i.e. media and press) is talking about, continuing to persevere with a player who is not pulling his weight will cost us. We have other players that are playing with their hearts on their sleeves and doing a job, why should they make way for a player who just isn't right at the moment. Whether it is to give him a wake up call, or just to let him escape some pressure on the pitch, I wouldn't even have him on the bench on Sunday. Radical and maybe harsh, but if any player has ever been shown that they are in the slightest bit bigger than the club, it all ends in tears anyway. If he really wants to play, he will pull his socks up, take off his sleeping cap, pull his head out of his arse and actually try to show everyone, not just Everton, that he was worth the money. I agree to a point BlueBri, he can't keep getting away with it - Its not fair on those who do work their socks of. It not as if the Yak has been conjouring goals or near misses out of nothing since he has been at the club - abit a short while. He does need to pick his socks up becasue I have not really seen anything to justify £11.5M fee . I wonder if Moyes could would he have his money back right now and be a striker short until January - I think he would be at the bank on Monday morning depositing £11.5M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Might sell him in January, cos if he doesnt pull his socks up he will have James Vaughan ahead of him as well as Victor and AJ. Might then use the money to buy LUCHO, who can do the midfield job AND score goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin.jones Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Carry on being negative about Yak and then ask why we don't sign big name players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBri Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Sorry but all this slating of Yak is typical of everton fans me included when is is not playing well he is sh@t when he is playing well he is a god. Make your Minds up!!! You have to bare with players sometimes and keep playing them believing they will sometime come good. Crouch at The shi@e he didn't score for 17 games and then we he does he is their biggest threat and then went to the worldcup as a great player. I think we should persist with yak and AJ and at some point it will work and when it does it will be great. I feel beattie was given harsh treatment by moyes as he wasn't given a chance with AJ. I don't generally agree that slating players because they are having a bad run is a good thing either, and it also irritates me. But I think you will not find many people slating AJ, and he hasn't scored since March!!!!!! In this case, I really do think he is in the firing line justifiably. We paid a lot of money for him, and as a professional footballer, I EXPECT a LOT more. If he has come thinking he can just breeze through, ultimately, get rid. If he works hard and plays hard, welcome with open arms. I think AJ is a good parallel in this case. OK, he isn't hitting the net, but he does so much for the TEAM. He doesn't stand arounf the pitch waiting for divine intervention to justify £40,000 a week. I don't abide anyone who is workshy, and the main thing Moyes has done over the years is instill a good team spirit and work ethic. If a player comes and thinksd he is bigger than that, well, goodbye and thank you IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Toad Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 He will come good....... but until he is ready to earn it, im happy for him to bench warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 To leave Yakubu out of the team unfair!!!.......No it would be UNFAIR to drop Anichebe or McFadden.Yakubu may have scored loads of goals in the past, but what were judging him on now is what he's doing at the moment.Sure he needs to settle...so does Jagielka so shall we play both of them against Newcastle? Moyes didn't read his opponents very well last night and nearlly fuc%ed up!but the passion of the few and a fair amount of luck pulled us through.Metalist are a dam good team at home and last night was a good result for us.....but we looked a better team with Yakubu and Jagielka off. Baines has fitted in well and it seems Pienaar also has more than found his feet.Pienaar was not that highly rated at first by many, but he's been given the chance and looks good.Yakubu and Jagielka can't live on reputation!....they've got to work and graft for the right to play.Crouch did get his luckypool career of to a slow start as far as goals went, but he did create for others and was a handfull. If Anichebe(who isn't the finished player by any means)hadn't come on last night to create McFaddens goal and create and score his own plus to unsettle their defence.....then we would not have won last night. Yakubu and Jagielka....when they play must do more!or let others who can get a game. REPUTATION counts for nothing.If Vaughans playing better than AJ....Play Vaughan. Were going to lose games because we can't put the ball on a plate for Yakubu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBri Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Carry on being negative about Yak and then ask why we don't sign big name players You mean like Arteta, Cahill, Lescott, Howard, Pienaar for straters. Funny how all of these players are consistently performing and are courted by bigger clubs. If big name players are all like Yak at he moment, then absolutely would not question the club bringing in more lesser known players who actually earn their money, are a joy to watch and play with their heart. Isn't that what being an Everton player is about??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraccerC Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 yak needs dropping, he needs to be shown that just because he cost us a lot of money he isn't untouchable. and when anichebe has performed so well when coming on and looks much hungrier... well you have to play ur best 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue4Ever Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 (edited) FFS Everyone, Yakubu hasn't been amazing but has he had any service at all? He does look lazy but when we give him the ball to feet he'l prove what he can do. He done one good piece of skill yesterday and set up a chance, because we played the ball to his feet. Everything else was over the top. I was very impressed with Pienaar again, the lad needs to play again! Howard Hibbo--Yobo---Lescott--Baines Arteta---Carsley--Graveson---Pienaar A.J---Yakubu If Tommys back lets play him! No1 will probably agree with the strikeforce but to be honest they are the best 2 strikers we have at the club! Vaughan maybe in the future, lets play them both. Carsley + Graveson done a good job for a while together center midfield, lets re-unite the partership for a game! Hibbo + Baines should go strait back into the team IMO. Neville was a joke yesterday if he plays questions do need to be asked! Ive got a feeling we will get beat 2-0 but im gunna say 1-1 COYB! Edited October 5, 2007 by Blue4Ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraccerC Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 you say this....but a few of us have been saying this all along ... why sign a striker for so much, when he's not gonna work and put him in a team withotu any creativity...we needed fernandes, we didn't need yakubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue4Ever Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 you say this....but a few of us have been saying this all along ... why sign a striker for so much, when he's not gonna work and put him in a team withotu any creativity...we needed fernandes, we didn't need yakubu Yer I know we did I was so gutted we missed out on him as everyone could probably tell. Weve got him now so lets play to his strenghs instead of hoofing the ball up. I would have rather signed Manny Than both Yak + Jags, but we did so lets get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Howard Neville Yobo Lescott Baines Jagielka Arteta Gravesen (please be fit coz I might just kill myself if Osman starts again) Pienaar Faddy Anichebe I'm not going to predict a score because I need to calm down after the debacle of last night. Otherwise I'll go for us getting thrashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmc25 Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 (edited) I don't generally agree that slating players because they are having a bad run is a good thing either, and it also irritates me. But I think you will not find many people slating AJ, and he hasn't scored since March!!!!!! In this case, I really do think he is in the firing line justifiably. We paid a lot of money for him, and as a professional footballer, I EXPECT a LOT more. If he has come thinking he can just breeze through, ultimately, get rid. If he works hard and plays hard, welcome with open arms. I think AJ is a good parallel in this case. OK, he isn't hitting the net, but he does so much for the TEAM. He doesn't stand arounf the pitch waiting for divine intervention to justify £40,000 a week. I don't abide anyone who is workshy, and the main thing Moyes has done over the years is instill a good team spirit and work ethic. If a player comes and thinksd he is bigger than that, well, goodbye and thank you IMO. I agree to an extent, and it annoys me when Hibbert never gives less than 100% and he gets slagged every week so it appears passion and effort isn't always enough for some fickle fans. I also happen to think AJ maybe runs around a bit too much instead of staying in areas where he can do more damage. For me, Yakubu was undoubtedly a joke last night, but against boro he was much more energetic and gave a lot more for the cause. I don't actually think Anichebe works much harder, he looks a little lazy imo but gets away with it as he's taller so wins the ball in the air (which Yak seems physically incapable of doing). Don't get me wrong, Anichebe has his days, but even when we beat spurs 3-1 Anichebe was poor, he looked lazy and not particularly up for it. He does work a bit harder than Yak and does deserve a chance possibly, but Yakubu will score goals if we give some ammunition (although he surely saw Anichebe's goal yesterday which was down to chasing a lost cause). I think Yakubu should be dropped, but I wouldn't write him off just yet. I did think it was a ridiculous signing though, we ALL knew that we needed a real class CM and instead we go out and spend 11m on a striker just because Vaughan is injured for a couple of months, it was pretty ridiculous really. I can't wait for Vaughan to come back, he's better than every other striker on our books no question. On a brighter note, Pienaar is starting to look a bit like a new Arteta - works hard, never gives up, quality on the ball. Excellent recent performances. Jags is the joke so far, it's a sad statement that you are desperate to see Carsley come on in a 442. It is embarrassing how poor our midfielders are in a 4, Nev, Cars and Jags just don't have the skills to play in a 4, but Carsley in particular is awesome in a 5 - I say bring him back in on Sunday and shut down Newcastle's attack. I think it's time for all out dogs of war in next two games until Cahill and Gravesen is back because we can't keep expecting the opposition to keep missing chance after chance. Edited October 5, 2007 by carlmc25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Passion and effort do not make up for a distinct lack of skill. If he can't do his job then he's going to get criticised. We don't have the team to carry players because they work hard. Fuck that, it's not good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmc25 Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 (edited) Passion and effort do not make up for a distinct lack of skill. If he can't do his job then he's going to get criticised. We don't have the team to carry players because they work hard. Fuck that, it's not good enough. he can do his job - he's an excellent defender, a lot better than Phil Neville and no doubt Jagielka. He may be poor on the ball but it's only really noticeable when he has no real outlet in midfield (like when Arteta isn't playing). Hibbert looked a far better player in a 451 when he had men to pass to in midfield. It can be very difficult for a full-back as they are very limited passing wise, they can only go forwards (usually long) or to one side, it's not like playing in the middle of the park - everyone used to get on Carraghers back when he was full-back for the same reason as Hibbo, yet both shared one thing in common, they very rarely get beaten down the wing and both will put themselves through a brick wall for their team. Hibbert had a poor season last year when he returned from injury, but it probably doesn't help him play well when Everton fans seem to look for an excuse to have a go at him as soon as he puts a foot wrong. Lescott started the season not particularly well but no one mentions it, now he has come through with flying colours and Hibbert looks to be doing the same. I'm not saying he is perfect because he isn't, but when he was playing well he was one of the best FB's in the league. I have a lot of time for Hibbert. Edited October 5, 2007 by carlmc25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBri Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 I think Yakubu should be dropped, but I wouldn't write him off just yet. I just want to clarify that I also am not writing Yakubu off. I think now he his here, with the right attitude, he will do a job for us. To a point, I agree that perhaps he is playing in a team and a playing style that he is not yet fully accustomed. And that's the point really. If he is having such a hard time adjusting, get back to basics, work it out on the training pitch and allow him to work his way in on merit. If things carry on the way they are, you can gaurantee it won't just be Everton fans baying for blood and he will indoutedly suffer. I do respect him as a player and his record speaks for itself, but we can't tolerate losing important cup or league games hoping that any player suddenly hits form from nowhere. The main reason I have been getting so neg about Yak, is the stalwart defence he is getting from some people. IMO you play your best players, and that means players that actually do a job. I admit that running round like a headless chicken is also not justification for a place in the team, but at least it shows a player is commited and is trying and I am just not seeing that from Yakubu at the mo. I promise this is the last time I am going to discuss this as I think I have said enough. My parting comment is that I am a die hard Everton supporter and I love the club. I only ever wish the best for the team and all those who play in it. We have a rich and proud history, literally littered with some of the greatest names ever in football and I personally think players who come to us should be honoured and proud to play for such a club and show that on the pitch to the 30-40 thousand who pay real world money to watch them play. I actually think that top footballers have a moral duty to be positive role models for kids, and to me that doesn't just mean not getting booked etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue4Ever Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 he can do his job - he's an excellent defender, a lot better than Phil Neville and no doubt Jagielka. He may be poor on the ball but it's only really noticeable when he has no real outlet in midfield (like when Arteta isn't playing). Hibbert looked a far better player in a 451 when he had men to pass to in midfield. It can be very difficult for a full-back as they are very limited passing wise, they can only go forwards (usually long) or to one side, it's not like playing in the middle of the park - everyone used to get on Carraghers back when he was full-back for the same reason as Hibbo, yet both shared one thing in common, they very rarely get beaten down the wing and both will put themselves through a brick wall for their team. Hibbert had a poor season last year when he returned from injury, but it probably doesn't help him play well when Everton fans seem to look for an excuse to have a go at him as soon as he puts a foot wrong. Lescott started the season not particularly well but no one mentions it, now he has come through with flying colours and Hibbert looks to be doing the same. I'm not saying he is perfect because he isn't, but when he was playing well he was one of the best FB's in the league. I have a lot of time for Hibbert. Summed up hole the Tony Hibbert situation in one post there, no1 but me realises how much phil neville fucks are team up! you could say it was his fault for the first 2 Metalist goals and he gives the ball away every pass WTF are people wanting to play him rightback over a very good defender? Hibbo played a blinder last week and proved he's our best rightback, why does everyone consistantly blame the wrong players for our poor performances. Osman, Neville + Jagielka nearlly put us out of europe a few days ago with discraseful performances and people defend them all the time, WAKE UP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.