thehelmet

I think he's just trying to get himself motivated to play some youngsters.. Either that or we have massive amounts of interest to pay for our old loans.

I think the potential signing of Seb could do wonders for Coleman's chances at right back. Seb Larsson is a hardworking winger with decent speed and a really good touch, he won't slouch his defensive duties and has played at right back for Sweden a couple of times so there would be added security for Coleman and room for him to keep bombing forward and they could switch places back and forth throughout games..

I'm just wondering how much he's asking for in terms of wages.. 50,000-60,000 a week?

He was the type of player we needed at the time and it worked well for all parties but then we started evolving as a football team and he never progressed with us. What went wrong for AJ at Everton was the referees vendetta against him whereby it seemed almost every week he would have a stone wall penalty appeal go against him. The Yak was another big factor simply because he was a better player than him and so he couldnt get in the side and that is hardly Moyses fault. So if your looking for people to blame about AJs fall from grace try the likes of Arsene Wenger who labelled him a cheat and turned the Refs against him or even blame his injuries but dont blame Moyes

This.

I well remember the frustration after every other game when some defender had completely bulled AJ out of the way, only for appeals to be denied without any consideration. It wasn't only Wenger either, a couple of other managers picked up the stick shortly thereafter as well..

Which makes it all the more disappointing to see Gerrard and others dive their way into penalty areas left and right every week without mention.

It's a bit worrying that every other player we are linked to has attitude problems.

I wonder if some of them namedrop Everton as interested because they realize Spurs, Newcastle et al generally swoop on players being linked to us..

Taiwo had a good run in the World Cup, played regularly for OM as far as I could tell and was toted for Real or some such during the summer for a fee of 7-8 million. Who made this up?

As for this whole subject I wasn't calling for Moyes to be sacked, but I do think again that he, and the board, needs to hear the critiscism of what they're trying to accomplish and what is accomplishing at the moment. Everyone knows he is on a shoe-string budget, everyone knows there has been no new investment in players. But the squad we have has managed a lot better, and we're used to and we expect them to perform a lot better.

I am more than pleased with his track record with our academy players so far (both Rodwell and Coleman are excellent examples of what can be done), I am more concerned with his stubborness to force his way through more than actually taking a step back and seeing that the team is not working. There is a lot of both potential and ability to do more than what is being shown at the moment, and a lot of it seems to do with his team selections for this season.. at least it's my take.

I just started a new topic on the whole striker crisis, didn't really read through this one first, and humbly apologise for this.

I disagree with people wanting to sack Moyes, I too can see the good that he has done for this club. What I cannot defend or agree with is the complete lack of ambition being shown at this club at the moment. You can talk Footy manager tactics and wonderkid buys all you want, but playing players who are very obviously underperforming, Arteta and Saha being the two most apparent ones right one, is a problem that has been going on for the better part of this season. I still think Beckford when he's played has produced chances and, if very occasionally, scored and has been put forward the Yak looked to be on the right path but was dropped again. And Cahill again, has thrived off a lone striker carrying the team together with Baines, Peanuts and Distin this season. How do you isolate him up front with Arteta, who is as mentioned performing well below par, and Rods who has played very sporadically in support.

But with the investment put forward I don't it's fair to demand that much more from Moyes. I believed during the summer and at the start of this summer that this might be our year to break into the top 4, even without investment, but it seems now that the more pressure Moyes is under, the more he can pull the team togheter. As it is he seems struck by indecision, and quickly running out of choices. Some of his own making, but a big part because we have failed to strengthen the squad and have been hampered by injuries for a couple of seasons.

Its still deserved critiscism but I think a good deal of it should be pointed to the board and chairman as well.

Did anyone else feel like Moyes might have made one of his biggest mistakes in charge of Everton in our last match against West Ham?

How do you reason benching three struggling strikers in a game against this season's most apparent punching bag, when they are all sorely needing of playing time and any eventual goals?

How did Arteta earn a place having missed several games due to a silly ban, and having played out of form for the better part of this season?

I agree that Rodders and Fellaini deserved to continue in midfield after their City performance, but wouldn't this have been the perfect game for Beckford to get a run in from the start, and Cahill in his preferred (and best) role as playing off the man up top?

Yak gave a really poor showing of himself, which is sad 'cause he had been looking a bit more interested but does anyone else feel like he plays his worst and most lazy when he's put under pressure and doesn't get an automatic starting berth?

Bleh. I just wish Moyes would play any one of our strikers, even Saha at this point, before playing Tiny Tim up front with Arty in support as that combination just does nothing for our fighting spirit-reliant midfield.

I think this is no more than a rumour, but if it's true it'd be a perfect buy for the future. He could replace tiny Tim for the asia games and would be a good long term solution. Toivonen is strong and technical and thrives as a pulled back forward. Don't really see him as a goal-getter since he's more for link-up play but he has scored a bunch of goals and is probably the biggest reason behind Marcus Berg's u21 success.

Sadly I feel like the Kenny Miller link from the same page is more in line with our shoe string budget..

I was gonna throw Oscar Wendt out there for a replacement left sided player, he's been utter class in the Champions League but for FC Köpenhamn so shouldn't cost that much. You'd lose the flair of Peanuts but he's an even harder worker with good crossing who could provide cover for Baines as well as tracking back in a left winger position.

Then reading through some gossip I noticed Stoke were supposed to put in a 2 mil bid for Seb Larsson at Birmingham since his contract ends this summer (seems to be a lot of that going around). He's a hard worker as well, with good crossing and is vital at set pieces. Seems a bit full of himself with contract negotiations at Birmingham but worth a shout? He'd provide some security if Moyes ever feels like trying Coleman in a right back capacity in the same way as Wendt down the left.

But with the luck this club has had with Swedish players, at least since Limpar, I'll just pipe down for now..

I'm fairly certain that read 3 players to replace the 5.

One cb, one winger and one striker, no?

Which in terms of what we use right now means replacing 2 strikers who are 1st (Saha) and 4th (Anichebe) in the pecking order with someone who can hopefully challenge the Yak and Beckford for a starting berth. We'd replace one winger who gets thrown in at the 20-15 last mins of games and still looks as if he's played 2-3 years of constant footy. We'd replace a mercenary and a long term loyal servant in CB who won't get a sniff of first team football until one gets his heart back and the other loses his proneness to brainfarts.

I still think it's wishful thinking hoping for even 24 mil for that group but why not. I'm not saying we should sell them for less, I'm just saying not a lot of clubs spend that much on players who are quite apparently out of form or favor.

Looking at what we would get in return or be able to get in january I'm not sure I'd be that interested in selling anyone though..

Well credit to Pienaar because, to me at least, it seems like he keeps on playing his heart out whenever called upon. Arteta's half-assed efforts before his ban are much more alarming. I'd rather keep Pienaar for the rest of the season than get a mil+Kranjcar in january, mainly because it's a huge risk thinking Kranjcar will solve our left side debacle in the absence of Pienaar, whom without we don't really have much to throw at teams as Baines looks a lot weaker without Pienaar. Moyes is right in that if Peanuts wants to secure a top top contract he needs to keep building momentum through the entire season, and to us that is more important right now than recouping a million and a player who shone at Portsmouth but who has then gone missing.

Set our hopes on playing together a decent new left side during next summer and just come to terms with us losing Pienaar and hopefully he can keep turning in top performances to help carry us into top half placings. As has been said, the distance to 7th position pointwise is not really that far. I remember during the season we finished 4th everything seemed to bounce our way, it was in off the post in the last 5 mins of every 0-0 draw to Wigan for that entire season. Which really doesn't look that far off now either, but our strikers haven't really done their fair share since Yak's latest 20+ season..

Wish list? Andy Carroll, Matt Jarvis, I would take nzogbia, Danny wellbeck, approx 40m worth.

 

Sell, yak, Saha, Billy, heitinga, yobo, maybe 35m worth

If we get an average of 7 mil for those 5 I'd be more than happy, sadly I feel more like we'd be hardpressed to get 5 mil for the pair of Yak and Saha. Bily and Heiting we might or might not be able to recuperate but I think not, Heitinga hasn't played for while now and when he did he didn't really impress. Bily's proven that he can't hack it at this level. Yobo I think we'd be lucky to get 5 from that as well.

To be honest I'd be happy if we mustered 20 from Saha, Bily, Heitinga and Yobo and Moyes could work his magic, keep the Yak and try and nurture him for a bit.

Heitinga had fantastic potential to become a real Goodison great but recent performances and Moyes reluctance to play him feels to me as if something's not quite right there (bad apple?).

I'd take N'Zogbia from that list, then look for bargains. Carroll for us would seem like moving back 10 years, I remember last year we outplayed Arsenal with the same setup of small quick footballers, the main difference being that ours wouldn't shirk on battling it out when push came to shove.

Where's the spirit from previous seasons?

I went with fourth. After United, Chelsea and City, I think lacking Europe will be what kicks us on. Villa will be nowhere near last season, the Reds I don't see competing with Poulsen to replace Mascherano. Spurs I think will struggle, don't think they have the same team geling that we have going.

I actually passed by Limpar's betting shop in Stockholm the day before you posted having seen Alexandersson and got to wondering, what are the odds. No sight of the man himself though, but he's been one of the main joys of my Everton cheering days!

Also, if the rumoured price at 8 mil is true, than by all means, let Peanuts go for 10 plus and Bily can have a run-in on the left, Vic can understudy Sessegnon on the right and play when we need a more direct approach or when Sessegnon has to fill in at the centre of the park.

We'd have 2-3 virtually untried midfield players though, and lose one of our most consistent performers from last season.. worth the risk?

http://www.footballsanctuary.com/2010/07/22/everton-offered-sessegnon

 

cant get the link from the times as you said, need to pay for it, however here is a link referring to it

It was also listed in the 'What the papers say - july 22nd' on the OS at the very bottom of the page.

I know what you mean without arteta actually but he is the main creative force and when it was both him and pienaar together we looked alot better. Bit harsh to critise his tempo when he had just come back from injury though? It was a poor decision on Moyes's part if anything, but we were lacking in numbers and it was probably to show the fans he is nearing full fitness. This shows how important he is to us becoming a top side again.

 

That midfield is not a decent one IMO, it is narrow and as you pointed out no real creative flair. It proved last year we need pace, width and guile on the flanks. with peanuts and donnovan both providing us with this,,, we are crying out for a out n out right winger. but i would much rather focus our attention on keeping arteta than worry about citeh's interest in donnovan.

Can't agree with you there at all, he was only just back from injury in the derby! IMO Arteta gives us something no other player in the squad can give us, and much of our form Feb onwards (post derby) coincided with him returning to fitness. Pienaar was probably our most consistent performer all season, but I reckon Fellaini had more of an influence on turning our season around, at times he was just dominating games in the middle of the park single-handedly, he doesn't offer the guile or spark of Arteta, but when you have someone like him who just seems to stop everything going through him and quickly turns defence into attack, it gives you a great platform to win games even without your best creative player.

 

For me, Fellaini and Arteta is a central midfield pairing that can win the league, with maybe Rodwell adding an extra dimension. If we lose anyone, for me it's Pienaar all day, Arteta would be virtually impossible to replace, and yeah I'd take Donovan for Pienaar quite happily

You're both touching on what I wanted to get across, I wasn't trying to criticize Arteta for being out of form, I'm criticizing Moyes for picking him when he better than anyone must have known what form he was in. To me Arteta not being able to keep pace was a huge chunk of us losing that game. But it also proves how reliant we are on Arteta for our creativity. Sure Fellaini broke up a lot of attacks but without either someone creative to slot the ball in for our strikers or, as has been mentioned, PL class wingers we have struggled against every single team that has had a decently organized defense. Pienaar and Baines down the left were the reason, to me at least, why we managed to struggle through. There's just not that many alternatives, and should we lose Pienaar and Arteta we have no one capable of opening up a locked game. Even with Arteta still here we still need someone who can bring the ball in from the right.

Maybe Vic. Maybe Coleman.

But our two only sources of creative flair can't be lost in the same window. There's no way we'll be able to replace that.

"Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger may only be able to bid should Spain player Cesc Fabregas leave for Barcelona"

I'd say there's a fair chance that he has no reason to bid should Cesc not leave for Barcelona..

I actually think we did rather well without Arteta. When he was given a start in the derby you had to wonder what he could provide with no tempo and a, even for him, disturbingly low work rate in a game that we needed to battle it out in midfield. Then again, the only reason we did do as well during the months without Arteta was because Peanuts carried us with his creative ability. Without the two of them I'm sure we could field a decent midfield (Fellaini, Rodwell, Osman, Cahill) but we would have no real creative flair.

We'd just be batting our heads against the smaller sides that line up 9 men in defense.

Even recognizing that we have 4 fit centrebacks (Jags, Heitinga, Distin and Yobo) for the first time in what feels like forever I wouldn't want to lose our only english one for a sum like that..

I'm not playing the big one here - I was genuinely shocked that you had no recolection of that final - don't you remember Gerrards strike? That's what made me think you were either a foreign supporter (not following english football as much) or a recent fan.

Wouldn't a foreign supporter have a better chance of remembering the Reds' results though, considering their "fanbase"?

Pienaar and Yak out apparently,

round abouts 20-25 mil for the pair.

As mentioned Pedro Leon, or mexican Andres Guardado, who both fit the bill as pacey wingers but capable of doubling in other areas. They both seem like hard workers as well, and seems to fit Moyes' mold..

I'd say we need a striker but no one springs to mind in the right price-range. Ola Toivonen could serve as a long term investment but I think he'd be to expensive and to similar to what we have, we need someone who's a proven goalscorer (preferably in the PL)..

The youtube clips show him as pacy winger with massive flair and dribbling but from what I've gathered last season was a bit of a disappointment and he struggled to maintain a place in the first team. Granted though, he's with a pretty decent team. I'd like to see him in the blue, but I think he's out of our price-range. Plus, getting on a bit agewise isn't he?

Hmmm...to Sporting perhaps?

 

Dare I say the M word...

I'd much rather see him in another league come next year than in one of the other PL teams but I feel if we get enough to secure someone like Eden Hazard then that will see us improve on our team. From what I've seen he's got flair, he's young and is quite speedy. He put in a hard working shift against the reds which is always a good thing. Him or Ben Arfa, but Hazard seems less of a mood-player..

Anyway, if Pienaar ends up leaving I hope he does so right at the end of the World Cup and leaves the pre-season training well alone. And that we get the rumoured 15 mil for him..