paul

a massive massive can of worms.

it has been done successfully in germany, and im all for seeing it come back as the germans have done it with "safe standing". but im not happy for us to be the first, for the obvious reason of respect for our close neighbours.

Thinking about it though is that not more of a reason why we should do it? It is essentially a safer way to stand upin front of the seat. This was done v Fiorentina, v Chelsea, and for large part sin Derbys and Man U.

These are all more mad matches, whereas this would let it happen for your normal matches as well.

So if its ok for the big games then its ok for the normal games.

So as it does happen for the mad games anyway shouldn't we have it done safely just in case anyone can find a problem with it? I suppose the attitude of Everton, well all clubs to be fair, is that they're hiding behind the fact that you're not meant stand anyway? But Fans do, so therefore they should aim to make it as safe as possible.

The two Merseyside clubs should really be the first to introduce it. How bad does it look on the 2 clubs if we are the last to improve safety?

I don't know how well it'd be received to be honest. Some people would see it as being disrespectful to those who have died in stadium safety tragedies in the past.

 

Personally I have no problem with it, although wouldn't the horizontal bar be in your way should you wish to sit ? Also due to the height at the back of the lower Gwladys Street wouldn't it be better to have it somewhere else with better sightlines/c-values? I can't see anybody convincing the club to remove seats (and reduce the income/stadium capacity in the process)from the stadium for the sake of a few fans wanting to sing. It's all to do with money nowadays.

Your part about the views seem to be covered:-

Problem:

1.1 This hardcore of 200-300 fans aren't able to persistantly stand up in front of their seat due to being told to sit down by fans on the last row who cannot see half the pitch due to obstructed views when they stand. Without standing there is rarely singing.

Solution:

2.3 No tickets to be sold on the last row (QQ) of the singing area as you cannot see half the pitch when stood there (see also 3.5)

That would be 30 tickets not sold. Whats our average attendance? Youre just talking about the Derby match but people stand up for that anyway so it'll make no odds for that match.

I think an important bit is whether supporting your club vocally is important or not. Fans are attracted to atmosphere and so would go the match more or even support a team because of it.

It's not a terraced area actually looking at it, its seats with a barrier so its separate to Hilllsbrough. Wasn't the main issue over that due to policing and ticketing that the Justice people are concerned with rather than justice over terracing?

Anyone seen this petition? It's about giving an area for fans who like to sing a place for them to go. It looks to be based on those German barriers in front of seats so that you can stand up but still satisfy the all seater rule

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/standupifyoulovetheblues/

Every little bit that we can do to try and inspire the team is surely a good thing!

best of the lot is ...we shall not be moved....which we started in 66 when we went on our cup run and won it...most memorable day was bedford town away it was unbelievable it had the lot singing drinking dancin on tables that was before the match.

Sounds class! Any other good ones from then?

Could be worse...we could be like Portsmouth with that interminable, "Play up Pompey" dirge.

Oh no, I really respect that song. That's been sung properly at the match by them for about 100 years! For that reason alone, I like it.

I think we have a poor selection of songs that actually get an outing on match day.......

 

"ooo its a corner" was a classic

 

I'm a bit concerned you know a couple of united songs though.......

 

Although don't know any of the words I'm always impressed with chants from the continental fans.... they usually don't seem to be singing to any tune that I know........ always impressed non the less.....

I remember the 'ooh its a corner' one! When Hinchcliffe used to whip them in for Dunc!

The foreign ones are like a mass of noise with a tune that goes on for half an hour! They sound intense though!

Feeling bad about picking 2 United songs now! I blame them them being on the tele!

So what's everyone's favourite song that other teams sung that we've never had a version of?

I've always liked Millwall's one:

No one likes us we don't care, We are Millwall, Super Millwall, We are Millwall from the den

Chelsea: One man went to mow, went to mow a meadow

Their words are bit silly but it sounds good when they sing it

Arsenal's old one to 'Cant take my eyes off you':

We love you Ljungberg and if its quite alright, We need you Ljungberg in the Redand White...

And Finally Man U

Forever and ever, we'll follow our team, we are United, the Busby Babes, For we won't be mastered, by who, by you Cockney.....etc!

And finally Man U again

Ryan Giggs, Ryan Giggs, riding through the Glen, Ryan Giggs, Ryan Giggs with his band of men

As far as I know we've never had a song to any of those tunes. So they'd be my first choice tunes for any new Everton Songs!

What about everyone elses faves?

Other than common sense.

 

It won't happen I don't think....but if it did it would be a quality stadium. It would have to be, otherwise the clubs and the planners and the financiers and the fans and the residents and the council and the government and anyone else remotely interested wouldn't let it happen.

What about business sense? As in cut costs?

The reason I back a shared stadium isnt so much because it will be a great stadium, although that is another good point!

The main and in fact only selling point for me is that we cant afford to go it alone

 

 

Oh and I am a Scouser and have had a season ticket for as long as I can remember so I do understand it all!

Again assumption it will be great. (Interesting avatar for this debate by the way!)

then reserve judgement yourself mate, its a two way street, but you cant see it for some reason. if we cant be positive about it then you cant be negative, under your own guidelines.

I am reserving judgement on the quality of the stadium! I'm not going round saying that we shouldn't groundshare because it will be a rubbish stadium? However, people have argued in favour of it, saying that it will be a quality stadium! There is nothing to say that it will be a great stadium.

the point is paul, to sell it to both sets of fans it would have to be spectacular

I'm sure people said that about Kirkby, and believed it when people were trying to sell that, but after that fiasco, for fans to yet again fall for the 'it will be a great stadium' propaganda is just silly. Reserve any judgement and exclude quality of the stadium until there is further evidence.

To reiterate what StevO said, there is no evidence to the contrary.

Which is why I'm saying, why use quality as a selling point in favour of the argument? Is it therefore acceptable for me to argue against the groundshare under the assumption that it will be total rubbish?

works both ways mate, until you've seen any dont assume it wont be great.

the only plansso far have come from trevor skempton, and they were pretty impressive and individual to me.

The point is, is that people are trying to sell this groundshare on the basis that it will be a great stadium when there is no evidence to back this argument up.

Are you for real???

 

If the 2 clubs do decide to share it will half the costs and therefore it stands to reason that a better ground would be more affordable

That still doesn't mean that they won't find ways to make the stadium cheaper does it? So that both clubs can save money again.

Until you see plans don't assume that it will be a great stadium.

Why are people assuming that just because you share you are guranteed a good stadium?

Companies will always look to cut costs. There's no guantees it would be goodso can we nip this theory in the bud until plans are made please?

One concern with this talk about the town not being able to cope with 50,000 is that the club would just build say a 42,000 stadium there. I wouldn't want us to cut our nose off despite our face as the saying goes.

4-0 away to Newcastle in 1996, I cant remember that one, I should do though, who scored?

Btw I do have the tape don't know where it is though probably in my dads loft it had commentary from all the games plus the fans singing We shall not be moved

Well, don't forget our weather is mediterranean, so such a closed space would be a lot warmer. I think it's an air circulation thing, and to have a nice clear space for the scoreboards.

 

Ours (SCP) is fully enclosed, and holds just about the same as FCPs. I'm just not crazy about the chairs beeing multi-coloured like they are, but otherwise it's awesome

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fair point about the air circulation, not needed in England though!

The other stadium (Sporting Lisbon's) seems good although I would prefer the upper to overhang the lower tier more. Better than Kirkby though easily!

On the left side stand it appears that the executive boxes are doubled up.

Why can't Everton do that so that we don't have to have them in the End Stands?

is it just one end that doesnt go to the roof? i sort of like that thou. capacity?

 

edit, bit of info.

holds 50,399

finished in 2003 and only cost 98m euros, what a bargain. probably as much as kirkby is costing.

some good pics here http://www.fcporto.pt/English/stadium_gallery.asp construction pics too

I don't know if it is just one end that doesn't go to the roof. It is one poor aspect of an otherwise very good stadium from what I can see. It's not a good feature that it doesn't go to the roof because this will not be good for the acoustics and also means that you will have a small and open end stand.

Increase the End Stand to the roof and its a winner!

Thanks for putting them up. If they extend that End Stand to the same height as the roof then it'll do me fine!

So does anyone want to create a ToffeeTalk shared stadium design? I have some models for Google Sketchup and willing (providing I have the time) to knock up some example shared stadium models. Please note I am not a designer by trade!

 

So far I like the idea of club crests either side of the stadium. I also like the idea of what appears to be 2 slugs combining 2 stands each that curve around (hard to visualise at this point) to form the stands.

 

Any other ideas...? (At this point just shared stadium ideas).

 

 

For anyone that is interested, Liverpools new stadium has been modeled:

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/det...mp;prevstart=24

 

And I like Porto's stadium:

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/det...amp;prevstart=0

Cant tell what Porto's stadium is like from that picture. Any better pictures of it?

No. We will be the meffs in their stadium. What next share kits to save money? Lets just have our own ground eh! It may make sense to the shareholders and the accountants but it doesn't make sense to the fans.

A shared stadium will be associated with Liverpool. Look at their exposure compared to ours. It is not equal in the slightest. We're not tramps. Let's have some pride.

Hello everyone, just wondered if anyone has any old Everton Matches on VHS or DVD at all apart from the obvious Cup Final or official VHS. If anyone does, feel free to PM me and we could trade matches. I don't sell at all.

 

Here is a list of Everton Games I have....

 

Liverpool Everton 01/11/1987 BBC

Everton Liverpool 88/89 ITV

Liverpool Everton 13/03/1994 SKY

Everton Liverpool April 1996 SKY

Everton Coventry 04/11/1996 ESPN

Liverpool Everton 97/98 SKY

 

FA Cup

Liverpool Everton 19/02/1991 5th Round BBC

Chelsea Everton 26/01/1992 4th Round BBC

 

Most interested in Everton v Liverpool from 1992/93 Monday Night Football, 2-1 to Everton or any other Everton matches from before the 1997/98 season.

Do you have the facility to copy any of those dvd's or videos?

There a couple of your older ones I'd be interested in watching

even thou Goodison is not acoustically well thought of, top managers still acknolege thsat Goodison has the best/most intimidating atmosphere. wenger, mourinho and ferguson.

Imagine how intimidating it would be then if we had a stadium designed properly for atmosphere.

In the main the atmosphere is absolutely rubbish in Goodison, and it's to do with the poor design which inhibits the fans from standing up, and it's to do with the poor acoustics.