MTK

How do we see the big picture? Good question, we certainly don't ever get to see everything - we just have to make judgements based on what info & expert opinion we have. You & I have reached different conclusions, but there you go - maybe one of us will change our minds at the next set of accounts. On the question of a sale though, would you be averse to appointing a specialist group focused purely on doing this? We could pay them based on results so not necessarily a huge extra expense. It wouldn't mean Bill would have to stop his efforts either. So what harm would it do?

I hope you're right. The problem I have with the accounts is that you don't see them for so long. We won't discover whether the £13m savings on the wage bill make a big difference until February 2013 & that could be too late. Certainly on the evidence so far we have a right to be concerned. In the last accounts we made £19m profit on player trading but still had a loss, a negative cash flow & the debt increased by £7m. All we know at the moment is that since the last accounts, we gained cash from Bellefield & player sales without being able to spend any, & still Bill has to borrow £12m to see us through the season & go to the bank with proof that we are capable of seeing the season out. You're happy to trust the board that these actions have been enough. Maybe I worry too much but I'm not convinced

Yes we are in a better position than 10 years ago & Bill should have some credit for that My questions would be 1) Is the future important to you? 2) Is our current business model sustainable? 3) Are the financial experts correct that we at risk from bankruptcy if we do not change? 4) Do you trust the current board to make these changes?

Where to start? Ok, they changed the rules but mainly because the UEFA idiots hadn't worked out that they'd set up a system that would not have the winners in the next year's competition. If we'd been champions, we'd have demanded the same & UEFA changed the system afterwards so they wouldn't be embarrassed again. It didn't affect us, we got the place we earned so why should we care and go on about it? Yes, Hicks & Gillette had the money all the time and the High Court are such massive Liverpool fans that they broke English law and stole the club off them. Then they took Gillette's Nascar team off him & forced him into bankruptcy. Next they took the Dallas Stars & the Texas Rangers off Hicks & bankrupted Hicks Sports Group. There's no compensation case because the High Court told them to produce evidence & then stole that evidence from Hicks & Gillette - the bastards. Take your tin foil hat off for a few minutes & look at what actually happened. Switch off your hatred for a minute & think about what might be best for our club. Every financial expert that's commented on our accounts states that our business model is unsustainable & heading for bankruptcy. We need to act now before it's too late. Liverpool had owners with bank debt that fell out with their bank (sound familiar?), came close to administration & came through it. We can learn from what happened & it might help us. The other example you need to be looking at is Portsmouth. Have a look at what happened when Barclays (again, sound familiar?) demanded all their loans back because they lost faith in the owners. What is going on is bigger than our rivalry, our long-term future is at stake. If your hatred & bitterness stops us learning what we can from all other clubs & fans then we reduce our chances of being able to help our club survive. When we're financially stable, when we're safe & when we're able to make progress towards truly competing again, then we can get back to our rivalry with the other half of town.

I hate it when we get called bitter but when we suspend common sense, ignore reality & believe any daft conspiracy theory just to have a go at them.....

Sale for 3 years? Or for 11 years? Elstone & Kenwright should have a chat & get their story straight It's a club record if a sponsorship deal is worth more than the previous one. On the other hand, it's a bloody disgrace if it isn't European competitions involve more games than they used to & 7 teams qualify now instead of 3. How is any of this attributable to Elstone? Name me a club who doesn't aim to support their manager. It's doing it without bankrupting the club that is the trick

I don't trust Harry Harris or Soccernet at all & know a few who feel the same. The article is pure flattery & reads like a puff piece designed to get the author in with the club. There's no named source or any detail that could be pinned down. It's not being repeated across any of the respectable papers & the timing is remarkably convenient for a club who want the protest to be a failure. So,to be honest, I think it's crap - as is 99% of what appears on Soccernet. The Disney gag made me laugh though

That was all before the he left the Express by "mutual consent" after writing libel that cost them a fortune. Since then, none of the newspapers will touch him & he can only get a job with Soccernet. I'd be surprised if his contacts are still good

Yeah I reckon that would do it as well

I have doubts, talking to potential buyers is not the same as selling the club & neither Harry Harris nor Soccernet are the best source for info anyway. I'll be more convinced when it appears on a news source that I take seriously. Carry on as before until the club's sold

Technically it's players' registrations that are the assets, not the actual player. Legally you're not allowed to own people anymore unless you batter them in an internet argument

Seems unlikely that they would have allowed themselves to lose close to £200m if they had the money all along, or that the courts would have forced the sale. I wouldn't believe those owners, they made our board look like geniuses. Anyway, what goes on with them is not our concern. My point was that we may need the creditors to step in to get the club sold

No, if you take a loan out & use an asset as collateral, then fail to pay back the loan, the lenders can seize the asset & sell it to get their money back. If there happens to be a bit left over then great, but if not, then tough shit on the people who took out the loan. This is normal, if you don't believe me, try not paying your mortgage for a few months. It may also be the only way we are sold & get out of the spiral of debt we're in so I wouldn't dismiss it

He's not a WUM from the dark side?

Wouldn't it be easier to just kick the dickhead out of the Blue Union than have all sane members leave?

The need is to get the club sold which isn't going to happen unless the shareholders take a loss on their equity. Martin Broughton was only able to sell Liverpool because he sold it for the price of the debt with the owners making huge losses. Our current owners know this which is why they can't find a buyer. We might as well be honest about it as well. A campaign to force a sale is a campaign against the owners. Kenwright knows it. Edit: my opinion, not a criticism of the BU but not their stance

I don't believe that we are secure. From the last two sets of accounts we are selling assets at an alarming rate & yet the debt continues to grow. In the last accounts we made a profit of £19m on players but still managed to make a loss & add more debt, so there's nothing to convince me that the 2011 accounts will show a profit or a decrease in debt. For this season our board have had to produce documents to prove to the bank that we are capable of operating for the full season without running out of cash & asking for more How much do we have to sell just to become stable, never mind to start paying off the debt? What players will be left? I don't see any evidence that this board are capable of pulling us out of this decline which will inevitably lead to relegation struggles. And if we do ever get relegated, god help us. We won't have parachute payments - they will already have been borrowed against & effectively spent. We would be instantly insolvent. Only a sale to someone who could pay off the debt will secure our future. The current board have had long enough to do this & failed. We need experts to come in & do it for them

Meant that people who think the board are doing a good job are wrong. I suppose I should add "in my opinion" Didn't say it's wrong not to support the protests. Just don't get the attitude that there's nothing a supporter can do about it so why bother trying?

I can understand people who are against the protest because they think Bill & Co are doing a great job and everything is fine. They're wrong & they've got their heads in the sand but I can understand them. I cannot understand anyone who knows that there are problems at the club that need to be sorted but is against the protest because they don't think a billionaire will buy us or the board will resign immediately after the protest. If you know something is wrong, at least try. If it doesn't work, try again or try something else

It's not unaccountable, they just don't want you to know what's in it

Could also have been a disaster. Bill's problem is that he can't put the cash together to have a real go at breaking the top 4 on a permanent basis but he won't accept that he shouldn't try. Consequently he's spent years making a loss & building up debts chasing something that was never achievable for the money he's thrown at it. As a result, we're now close to financial disaster. If he'd spent that time building up money-making resources like a stadium or finding a buyer then we wouldn't be in the shit now

Utd's past record doesn't mean much for the future. However, in the present, they are a massive cash generating monster with the most successful manager in the country & a great squad of players - even the Glazers stealing £500m of their cash flow hasn't slowed them down. This is why they'll be successful in the future, not their past record

It means we have a great past Premiership record. Unfortunately it means sod all for the future

He seems a bit mad but also has a track record of starting well at clubs so I think he'll do well for a couple of months at least. Hopefully he's grown up a bit & realised that this is an opportunity he needs to take so we'll get a full season of him at his best. Don't think there's any chance of him staying after a year. Once he's a free agent he'll be looking for the best signing-on fee & wages he can get, which won't be our offer.