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Asking the Unaskable?


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After being stuck on a 2 day course on MSDS and Label writing for the US, canada and Asia Pacific, I was not able to get anywhere near the internet and therefore was rather lucky to have missed the seemingly frustrating problems with TT! (now resolved I hear you cry!


But the good thing about being on a 2 day seminar/course is that you can scribble away quietly in the background - and yes I was bored. So here is my scribble - here are my thoughts and questions regarding the current situation on EFC.


Is a change on the cards?

In askingm yslef this question, I felt that a number of factors had to be considered for fairness more than anything.

what does change actually do, is it always positive and how much change do you incorporate when looking for a quick fix?

DM's current team are simply not performing. A bold statement which is not entirely true but judging results, can be made all the same! Certainly the results of late are far from inspiring but the actual performance and 'on field' displays are not reflective of the final result. But, nevertheless we are still losing - so there is a signficant problem.

After much thought and continued disbelief (and almost agreeing with Fozzie), the problem lies solely with the management. 'In moyes we trust' is constantly echoed around the Goodison faithful but it is, unfortunately, wearing a bit thin for some.

I am no professional footballer, I dont even play competitively so I can't really (accurately) comment upon individual player performance. I cannot comment upon whether Cahill IS actually tired, whether BT is unfit or why Kilbane cant find his pace. they all seem to be suffering the relevant symptoms when viewed from the stand (or on TV) and common sense tells me that they should be dropped until they are ready - which makes me believe (against my own will) that there is a much bigger problem at the club. It makes me ask the million dollar question...




why is DM still starting and using these players. Why is Weir playing when we have a young Danish lad ready for action? Has DM lost (or losing) the ability to see what the 40,000 fans around him can see. Should you care to listen to DM's after-match analysis - then you would think that he was in-line with everyone else- he makes sensible comments and gives himself sensible targets - showing that he is watching the same game as the fans - interpreting it in the same way (almost) - so why does he still make the blindingly obvious mistakes? Why does he refuse to drop the Weir's/Cahill's/BT's of this world? Is it because he purchased them, is it because Weir is captain - is it all a pride thing - doesn't want to admit that he has been wrong these past weeks?


Whilst writing this 'scribble' (and some of you may see it as nothing more) - I paused to realise that I was being negative toward the club I love and the manager. So I have to ask myself 'why' - and again the answer is simple.


For me to be thinking in this way about a manager that took us to 4th and to our first European football in a decade shows that there is a massive problem - much bigger than first anticipated. That I/we ask these questions and attempt to find reason/cause/solutions to them tells it sown story - it is the fact that these questions CAN EVEN exist that is most important and most relevant...


Someone, somwhere is not making the brave decisions. SOmeone seems to be a weak link at the moment - Is that weak link David Moyes?? the answer, regrettably, has to be YES.


Is it time for some change?

Edited by rowlo-efc
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no way! This is the guy who took a bunch of, lets face it, average players, to 4th in a very very competitive premierleague while making a huge profit in transfers over that season, taking a chance on 2 Chamionship players with a combined fee of £2.5m, 2 of the stars of last season.

We are having a bad time right now, its not so nice to be an Evertonian, there are 'I told u so's' coming from all direction, many a smug grin coming my way but we cant lose the faith in one of the best young managers around.

The reason in my opinion, why we have had such an awful start is simple, these guys worked their arses off last season to keep 4th spot and qualify for the champs league, they held on when nobody thought they could. Then what happens right at the beginning of the next season, bang, we are out of the competition we worked so hard all last season to be in. To add insult to injury, we were robbed by the 'best' referee in the world, who then retired a week later (hmmm).

The players are suffering and dejected, not consiously i dont think cos they are still trying their hardest, but i dont think their hardest at the moment is quite as hard as it was when we were hanging on to 4th spot.

They need to pull their fingers out soon and I know they will. The new guys (espec the foreigners) need to settle and gel with the team and get the old Everton spirit instilled in them and we will see a great improvement. Too late for this season maybe but we will come good and be all the stronger for it!


Did u know...we are 10/1 in the bookies to finish in the top 6! The same odds as we are to finish rock bottom!

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I see your point - and hope to the high heavens that you are right and that the team's current fortunes can be turned around.


Iam (fozzie will tell you) an internal optimist - forever trying to see the positive side of things - but currently my blue tinted specs are off and I cannot see where the lads are going to get their next 3 points from.


Its all good saying that the next game is Spurs then Chelsea - so we wont get nothing from them - but not many other teams will either - its small consulation to somebody that has been following the blues all of their lives and its not good enough. Regardless of the team we face, we should be looking to win - like we did last year - we always looked to win.


And yes we did hang on last year - but thats exactly what we did do - hang on. We hung on other clubs took the precedence and added more points to their tally (Utd, Arsenal etc.) - if you want to consistently finish in the top 4-6 places then you have to be able to see off the likes of Wigan and Porstmouth at home - even if you are going through a bad patch. For Utd and Arsenal - a bad patch for them still means that they win 1-0 against these poorer clubs - for us it means we will be beaten. ANd thats the difference - thats the gap that has to be bridged - a bad run for UTd and they float around 5-8th place in the league - a bad run for us and we are bottom.


We have nothing currently in the squad who will take the mantle and push us forward - noone player is standing out and making the difference - leading by example - I cant see anybody taking that mantle either.

We have no goalscorer (and we havent had one for a while) and it shows - Cahill is tired and is not getting forward to score - and again, it shows and more than that - - it hurts.


coming up with the outlandish statements regarding VDM and kroldrup is pie in the sky - they will not be our saviour - what we have available is what we have and they are the players that are going to have to dig us out of the shit!

Its no good waiting for the 'striker' to come during the transfer window in january either - we simply can't wait that long. If we are not in double figures by then - we are properly fooked.


I can take the stick from the RS - its not a problem and its nothing new for a long-term Everton fan...

What I struggle to take is the fact that we simply can't win even the easiest of matches - and again morale is not a factor for me - the teams we want to be like still manage to score, even when morale is low.


Okay - europe was snatched away from us - but then it is nothing more than a lucrative bonus competition and I am sure that lessons have be learnt for the next outing. We have then faced some good sides in the premiership - Man U - Bolton etc. But we did manage to do bolton - albeit on the back foot!


We are not good at the moment and I can't see how Moyes can possibly turn it around. I think that the club is starting to shape up as a defensive unit - in the mould that DM liked as a player - and that is currently not a good thing because it tells me that he has exhausted his options and is reverting to what he knows 'deep down' - going back to his last option - his roots!


This makes me wonder, in turn, whether or not he should step aside? I am after an intelligent conversation regarding this issue - not a bust up or a slanging match between RS fans taking the piss - so if you are and RS fan - stay away.


Your reply, bluerob, sums up the team in its first sentence - - 'average players'

Edited by rowlo-efc
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Losing at home to Wigan and Portsmouth is very worrying, theres no two ways about it, they are teams, even when we are off form we should still be brushing aside if we want to be an established top half team let alone a top 4 team.

LOsing to Spurs away is no embarrasment, we let in 5 there last year so u could even say we have impoved, lol.

Everton are in a transitional stage, we have a manager with a 5 year plan to make us half decent again, we were spoiled beyond all imagination last season and that has rasied everyones hopes of doing the same this season and the next but its not as easy as that. Our average players over performed this season and are under performing this season. BUT...we have a better squad than at this time last year, and this time next year we will have an even better squad and so on. I agree that we cant hail a fit BT, Koldrup and VDM etc as saviours but these are the guys DM has decided to spend his cash on and they arent yet in the team even. Once they are in the team and have been for a few games we will be a different side, Im not saying they will just turn on the style but this is the team DM wants us to have. McFadden replaced by BT (from a couple opf years ago), Koldrup instaed of a slow (although still dependable in my op) Weir and VDM (dutch international) in place of Killa. Slightly differnet prospect, also it gives us competition for places meaning u either u play ur heart out or u get replaced, which cant happen at the moment as we havent got the numbers. We will get out of trouble, i have no doubt.

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Ive sat on the fence mostly, simply Hoping things would turn around.


However, have also been contemplating after a Yack with a fan of another club whom posed similar questions 2 rowlo really in regards to whats going wrong.


So here is my stance on the issue & will answer in part some of the questions posed within rowlo's interestingly forwarded prose.


1stly. Pat is still with Moyes. However, If things have not improved come say the 1st or 2nd week of December, then & perhaps then other "CONSIDERATIONS" could be @least motioned.


Additonaly, the situation as a whole would need to be really assesed.


In Short, Some one will have to show "LEADERSHIP" ( Please dont laff @ the suggestion of Boardroom/Leadership..I no). Some one Possibly even neutral from the football side of things may well need to gather info ont he whole scheme, Players, coachuing staff etc etc..Whos happy whose not, whats doing etc etc.


We Simply cannot act all Gung Ho & draw the side arm willy nilly or we could be inr eal trouble.


The Rot needs to be found. If indeed it exists? Then action I suppsoe would have to be taken or @least considred in depth.


consequently & for the mean time & as have stated Pat is right behind the manager ( Though stick to the mid-Dec theory above).


A further consideration could be this. Weve not heard from the Greig family in some time..All got heated didnt it,...( we had success).. then fizzzled & they seemed 2 go away :lol:


Fortress, Investment,?????


Mentioned the Word "ROT" earlier.......wonder ( cringe) what wise decisons may be made ? Whilst Pat for One deffo believs the "WAR" is not over yet vessavee top jockeys of this club.


Sat here shaking my head for a minute re-reading those last paragraphs.


On the field.....Well its a Worry!!!

Off The field....Well it's a Worry!!!

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Guest fozzie22

I concur that Rowlo is the eternal optimst :lol:


Well its a good post Rowlo and has given me food for thought.


As i see it the clubs problems were papered over last season,no doubt the "rooney" factor and the players playing out of thier skins put us into 4th spot,in other words we overachived.


I here the line coming out saying the "players were gutted about losing in europe"..big deal,so was i and many other supporters,but im not on 20 grand a week bellyaching about it,"the players are hurting2..so they frigging should be,we're all hurting and again not on 20 grand a week while doing it.So as you've guessed these excuses dont rub with me.


Why did so many players have thier contracts wound down by the club?nothing short of a scandal in the way that was handled,once again the bungling duo of BK and Wyness come to the fore and fuck things up.


DM..major mistake not signing a striker,we could all see he needed to bring anyone into the club but what we got was injured players broguth in instead,and given the hapless BT its not the first time he's done it either,so questions have to be asked about his transfer policy.


Training..something needs to change,sack irvine?bring someone like brian kidd into the club?just a few thoughts on that one.


The player we hope to have coming back will not gell rigth away it will take a minimum of a couple of months to start seeing if they've been worth the wait,and by then it could be to late,i dont expect anything from chelsea..but things have to start moving soon or its game over.

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I fear getting 3 points from the russians playthings is *next* to impossible,i really can see them going unbeaten thru the season

There is not a chance in hell of us getting three points from Chelsea - and they know it. Even if we were on form we wouldn't be looking at that fixture as a 'win' - Its not feasible - even I can see that!


I think that we are in deep and although only 8 games have gone - there are 7 defeats in that and it doesn't look good from any angle...


Something is upsetting the apple cart and something needs to change - we can't plod along and hope for the best - it simply will not work and it isn't football.


Now, my originally post suggests that it is Moyes who must be changed - that is an assumption based on what I can see from the outside looking in through what can only be described as 'blacked out windows'. I can see only a small fraction of what really goes on - so I still think that there is a massive underlying problem, not necessarily afixed to DM, that is causing a stir off the field - and inevitably ...on the field and in the terraces. Someone is ruining the club and I can't point my finger at anyone in particular - but can point it at DM for certain things that he continually does or doesn't do...

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