Fifa Lax Nationality Switching Rules

[Louis]

NASSAU, June 3 (Reuters) - Many players could get a new chance to play international football after FIFA's congress surprisingly voted on Wednesday to remove the age limit on changing national teams.

 

Under established rules players with dual nationality, who had already played for a country's national team at youth level, were only allowed to switch loyalties until the age of 21.

 

A motion from the Algerian Football Association, removing the reference to the age limit, was passed by 58 percent of the FIFA Congress, opening the way for many players to get a second chance in international football.

 

The rule change does not affect any player who was played for the full national team as they are barred from switching nations.

 

The Algerian change was backed heavily by African countries - many of whom will now hope to 'regain' players who have played at youth level for European countries.

 

Algeria could now have access to several players who have featured in France's youth teams such as Lazio midfielder Mourad Meghni.

 

Meghni, who was born in France to Algerian parents, represented France at Under-17 and Under-21 level but has never played for the full national side.

[holystove]

Good change .. Although I think they also should allow players who played for the first team to play for another country after acquiring citizenship of that country.

 

Maybe get some sort of rule in place for dual citizenship that you definitely have to choose for either country but if a players becomes a full national of a country, why not allow him to represent that country? I don't think it's a problem in any other sport is it?

[Louis]

I don't agree with that, what you're proposing would see the likes of Cahill and Ronaldo eligible for England because they hold a piece of paper that says they are British.

[dark]

I don't agree with that, what you're proposing would see the likes of Cahill and Ronaldo eligible for England because they hold a piece of paper that says they are British.

 

The whole dual citizenship is a sham. The talk of Manuel Almunia and Carlo Cudicini is a pathetic way of improving the national squad. If we did get anywhere in the World Cup then it woulden't feel right having a Spanish goalkeeper. It's crazy and it shoulden't happen, like Louis said we would have access to the likes of Ronaldo and Cahill because of the documents they possess.

 

It would make international football the same as club, and that's not right.

[Guest efctaxi]

This post is not well thought out as such , and is in no way intended to be racist .

 

My stance on it is that if you are English , you play for England , and if you are Italian , then you play for Italy .

If a guy is born in Italy , but moves to England as an infant , plays all his football in England , and has been part of England all his life , then yes , I would consider him actually counting himself as English .

 

Should he play for England ? Maybe he should .

 

Should he have a choice of Italy or England ? No .

 

If you become a British citizen , then you should lose rights to your native lands benefits .

Afterall , you have turned your back on them and moved on so to speak .

 

When should you lose / gain your rights to become a British Citizen ?

 

Once you are an adult , and can make your own choices ( let's not get political here - yes , some people are dictated to etc ) then you shouldn't have a right to citizenship in another country .

 

Be there as a guest yes , but gain the other countries nationality ? No way .

 

If you are a kid , you don't have any choice in the matter if your parents up sticks and move abroad .

I don't have a problem with kids gaining citizenship , but if they return to their native lands through choice as an adult , they should lose it , as they have then done a runner with everything they have gained from their stay .

 

They should even possibly be fined and reimburse the country which invested in them .

 

You can't have your cake and eat it so to speak .

 

Arteta for example , should never be able to play for England , nor should Arsenals goalkeeper , nor should flamin Greg Rusedski .

 

I don't want to get into politics as I know bugger all about politics , and if my post seems hypocritical , then hopefully you will overlook it and try and see where I'm coming from ( asI probably can't )

Edited June 5, 2009 by efctaxi

[zequist]

I don't agree with that, what you're proposing would see the likes of Cahill and Ronaldo eligible for England because they hold a piece of paper that says they are British.

 

Yeah, see I don't like that either. You had some of that in the World Baseball Classic this year, with some players who represented one country in the first tournament choosing a different country in this tournament, and it just looked and felt weird. Especially having to root against the guys who I was cheering for in the first WBC when they played for the US, because now they were representing the Dominican Republic or some other country in the second one. I thought it was bad enough when the US rammed through an accelerated citizenship for the Frenchman David Regis so he could play for them in the '98 World Cup, but at least that was still within their right (as much as I - and to judge from their reactions most of the US team - detested it), since he'd never represented any nation internationally. But the team-swapping going on between WBCs was even worse.

 

And here's another thing. If something like that were to ever be put in place, the smaller countries would be even more screwed than they are now, because the Germanys and Italys and Englands and their brethren would be hovering all over their best players looking for any link of ancestry that would justify being able to poach them. You're a Belgian holystove...imagine if, after that huge World Cup run in 1986, the Italians and French and Dutch had all come swooping in and offered call-ups on their teams to all of your best players (Pfaff, Van der Elst, Scifo, Ceulemans, etc.) because they had French or Dutch or Italian ancestry in their past. Wouldn't that tick you off just a bit?

[holystove]

First of all, as I said in my first post, I think there should be a rule for people with dual citizenship. It would indeed be alarming if people would just switch countries as it pleases them, while keeping the citizenship of your country of origin. I fully agree with you all on that.

 

I thought it was weird as well when I read on ESPN that they were still waiting for some players to decide which country they were gonna play for in the WBC .. totally absurd.

 

 

That aside, REGARDING SINGLE CITIZENSHIP I appear to give more weight to the notion of citizenship (than especially you efctaxi ). If a person lives in a country for a number of years in such a way that he has become a part of that society and that society recognizes that and embraces him as one of its own by giving him citizenship, how is he not an equal member in that society in every way? And at that point hasn't he totally alienated from his original country?

Why can't you recognize them as equals in your national sports?

After all, citizenship is the start of everything. Every right you have starts with your citizenship. Every country in the world is organized in a different way and having citizenship gives you a vote in that organization. It even defines your rights in the international world (for example the visa waiver program the USA has in place for some countries).

I can't believe people would change citizenship without really really thinking about it. It's a HUGE step in my opinion.

 

I'm aware that there are definitely people who view it very differently because they don't agree with the way that citizenship is granted in their countries (as JD said with that French guy), but that is a totally other discussion. In my opinion if you don't agree with the fact that someone who wasn't born in England but has English citizenship and gets to play for England, you have a problem with how your Parliament and therefor you as a society, has decided to grant citizenship. (That seems to be the point efctaxi was making). That is a totally different issue than which players FIFA should allow to play for England. I don't think FIFA has the right to place itself instead of the Parliaments and instead of the individual motives of the person that changed citizenship.

 

And here's another thing. If something like that were to ever be put in place, the smaller countries would be even more screwed than they are now, because the Germanys and Italys and Englands and their brethren would be hovering all over their best players looking for any link of ancestry that would justify being able to poach them. You're a Belgian holystove...imagine if, after that huge World Cup run in 1986, the Italians and French and Dutch had all come swooping in and offered call-ups on their teams to all of your best players (Pfaff, Van der Elst, Scifo, Ceulemans, etc.) because they had French or Dutch or Italian ancestry in their past. Wouldn't that tick you off just a bit?

 

Don't just look at it from the point of view of those countries but also look at it from the point of view from the individual concerned.

If one of those Belgians you named decided to get citizenship of another country I would have been perfectly fine with that. If they feel they have a bigger chance to accomplish their goals in a different society and that society is willing to embrace them, then fine. All the best to them. Them being Belgian and me being Belgian doesn't give me any right to question their personal motivation.

To be honest I'd lean more the other way : if someone was born in Belgium but is totally acclimated to English life because he lives and works there, but happens to have Belgian citizenship, I would feel weird supporting him when he's playing for the Belgian national team. The same with someone who has always lived in Belgium but has the possibility to get French citizenship and immediately jumps at that possibility, I'd be happy to see them go because apparently they feel no connection to my country. So why should they represent it in our football team?

[zequist]

Oddly enough, even though we're disagreeing I understand what you're saying, up to a point. Since the US is a nation of immigrants, we have a lot of that to deal with. Giuseppe Rossi is a perfect example. The kid was born in New Jersey and lived in New Jersey until he was 13, but he had dual citizenship and his dream for whatever reason was always to play for Italy (where his parents immigrated from). Did the US team need him more than the Italians did? Absolutely - it's rare for us to have a striker of his caliber in our talent pool. But that's not where his heart was, and he was good enough that the Italians wanted him, so more power to him.

 

What I'm objecting to in your proposal is the potential for poaching and shady dealings that it encourages. People play fast and loose enough with the citizenship laws as it is now - I don't even want to think about what the Russian "national" team would look like; how many quality internationals (especially from poor countries) would suddenly develop an overwhelming desire to renounce their homelands and become Russian "citizens" after all those Russian mega-billionaires got through offering them money and/or mail-order brides under the table. That's a bit tongue-in-cheek, of course, but it makes my point: the softer you make these rules, and the more exceptions and loopholes you open up, the more you allow the influence of money and the risk of corruption to take over.

 

I have no problem with a dual citizen choosing one country over the other, and I have no problem with someone choosing to play for his adopted home over the land of his birth because he identifies more with his adopted home. I do have a problem with a player taking advantage of loopholes to play for a country he really doesn't give a damn about for cynical and selfish reasons. If David Regis had always wanted to play for the United States, or had lived in the US for a long time and harbored a strong desire to become a US citizen, then I wouldn't have had a problem with him joining the team in '98, and I don't think anyone else would have either. But he had never lived in the US, never played in the US, and he barely even spoke any English - the only reason he was eligible for citizenship at all is because his wife just happens to be American. Even then, he double-checked with France to make sure he had no prospects of ever being called up by them before he agreed to play for the US. That's not a case of "acclimation" or "identification," it's purely a mercenary decision (and the national team coach is equally at fault for his cynical decision to take advantage of that loophole in the first place). If you opened up the option for senior national players to change countries in mid-career, it's guaranteed that 99% of the players changing teams would do so for mercenary reasons, and not patriotic reasons - either because they were being influenced from outside to become a citizen of their new country, or because they felt like they had a better chance of winning silverware with their new country, or because their new country had a higher profile and would help them make more money in their club career, or whatever. Just like club football, in other words. In fact, that's exactly why FIFA first imposed the ban on changing national teams. Used to be up until the 50's or early 60's that players could do something very much like what you propose, change national teams at any time, provided they were eligible for passports and/or citizenship. They changed that rule because some countries (Spain especially) were handing out passports and national team spots to elite foreign players like they were going out of style.

Edited June 6, 2009 by JD in DC

[holystove]

Oddly enough, even though we're disagreeing I understand what you're saying, up to a point. Since the US is a nation of immigrants, we have a lot of that to deal with. Giuseppe Rossi is a perfect example. The kid was born in New Jersey and lived in New Jersey until he was 13, but he had dual citizenship and his dream for whatever reason was always to play for Italy (where his parents immigrated from). Did the US team need him more than the Italians did? Absolutely - it's rare for us to have a striker of his caliber in our talent pool. But that's not where his heart was, and he was good enough that the Italians wanted him, so more power to him.

 

What I'm objecting to in your proposal is the potential for poaching and shady dealings that it encourages. People play fast and loose enough with the citizenship laws as it is now - I don't even want to think about what the Russian "national" team would look like; how many quality internationals (especially from poor countries) would suddenly develop an overwhelming desire to renounce their homelands and become Russian "citizens" after all those Russian mega-billionaires got through offering them money and/or mail-order brides under the table. That's a bit tongue-in-cheek, of course, but it makes my point: the softer you make these rules, and the more exceptions and loopholes you open up, the more you allow the influence of money and the risk of corruption to take over.

 

I have no problem with a dual citizen choosing one country over the other, and I have no problem with someone choosing to play for his adopted home over the land of his birth because he identifies more with his adopted home. I do have a problem with a player taking advantage of loopholes to play for a country he really doesn't give a damn about for cynical and selfish reasons. If David Regis had always wanted to play for the United States, or had lived in the US for a long time and harbored a strong desire to become a US citizen, then I wouldn't have had a problem with him joining the team in '98, and I don't think anyone else would have either. But he had never lived in the US, never played in the US, and he barely even spoke any English - the only reason he was eligible for citizenship at all is because his wife just happens to be American. Even then, he double-checked with France to make sure he had no prospects of ever being called up by them before he agreed to play for the US. That's not a case of "acclimation" or "identification," it's purely a mercenary decision (and the national team coach is equally at fault for his cynical decision to take advantage of that loophole in the first place). If you opened up the option for senior national players to change countries in mid-career, it's guaranteed that 99% of the players changing teams would do so for mercenary reasons, and not patriotic reasons - either because they were being influenced from outside to become a citizen of their new country, or because they felt like they had a better chance of winning silverware with their new country, or because their new country had a higher profile and would help them make more money in their club career, or whatever. Just like club football, in other words. In fact, that's exactly why FIFA first imposed the ban on changing national teams. Used to be up until the 50's or early 60's that players could do something very much like what you propose, change national teams at any time, provided they were eligible for passports and/or citizenship. They changed that rule because some countries (Spain especially) were handing out passports and national team spots to elite foreign players like they were going out of style.

 

Well I fully agree. But I refuse to adapt my definition of citizenship because of some people who don't realize the consequences of their decision.

 

Look at Qatar, they have some of the best runners in the world. Apparently all those runners are born in Kenya or Ethiopia. The IAAF (or whatever organization regulates that) doesn't intervene. And why should they? It's between the (former) Kenyans and Qatar. If that's how they want to get success, more power to them. I wouldn't want to do it that way, either as Qatar-government, Kenyan runner or Qatar citizen. And that's my point .

[Louis]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id...010&cc=5901

 

27 year old German midfielder Jermaine Jones has switched from the German national team to the American one. He had three caps for Germany but all in friendlies.

 

I don't watch the Bundesliga but I hope he is better than Pablo Mastroeni.

 

--

 

Carlton Cole can still play for Nigeria then I guess.