Bluetrip

He typified everything bad about our team in the 90's with his clueless long ball punts up the pitch. There's 40,000 people in Goodison every other week who would run themself into an early grave for the team, it shouldn't mean we get a game.

Think you might agree that Essien, Gerrard, and Van Persie are a bit better than anything we've got, but even so those Teams performances dipped alarmingly when those players were played out of position, specially Arsenals and Chelsea's.

 

And dont forget we have played players out of position in almost every game this season, for a start we havent got a winger on the books, weve played about four different left backs, five different right backs, even Simon Davies ffs full back .

 

Left back and left wide men plus a centre half must be the priority, we can do ok with the strikers we have, Johnson, Vaughan, Beattie, Annichebe, and McFadden are plenty, theres only a need to bring one in, if one goes.

As much as i would like to see him here we can leave Nugent until he's running down his contract and get him cut price, we are not desperate for Strikers.

 

You said.............""We were woefully poor up front when Johnson was injured""

 

Yes but dont forget Cahill who is also a goal threat was also missing for the last ten games or so, and of course our other goal threat Arteta, was playing out of position on the wings.

 

It doesnt matter how good the individual players are, we will never win anything if we have a mish mash of players all playing in the wrong positions.

I personally prefer to see us play a 4-4-2 with two out and out strikers rather than having Arteta or Cahill as the support. They are a major threat but when we come up against a team playing like for like (aka Bolton, Blackburn, Villa, Fulham, Portsmouth) we struggle going forward.

We had the fourth best defensive record last season conceeding just one goal more than Arsenal and 18 less than our closest rivals Spurs. I don't think our defence is the biggest issue.

I think its safe to say Beattie won't be with us next season judging by the fact Moyes had him as 5th in the pecking order and there's 3 or 4 teams sniffing around him.

Mcfudge, don't get me started - one wonder goal a season propped up by 20-30 inept displays (if he even stays fit). He's never going to be the kind of striker we need. Vaughan I am genuinely excited about and hope he can carry on where he left off but even the blind optimist would struggle to predict 15-20 goals for his tally next season. If we don't sign a striker we will struggle - again, to score and finish teams off during those 50/50 0-0 games.

I AGREE, Joey and Joly are centre halfs i dont like playing anybody out of position, Unsworth was ruined by turning him into a fullback, If I SEE JOEY AT RIGHT BACK AND JOLIAN AT LEFT BACK, it means that our squad is still too small. more players must be brought in to alleviate that problem.

We are desperate for a wide left midfielder and a good left back and they should be the priority above all the other positions.

Benitez plays Gerrard on the wing/upfront, Morinhio played Essien at CB for most of last season, Arsenal play Van Persie on the wing a lot. All have large squads, sometimes it pays to play your best eleven. In that respect I would prefer to see Lescott at LB if it meant Naysmith wasn't getting a game and we had good cover in defence.

You are right, we do need a winger and left back but I'd put a striker top of the list. We were woefully poor up front when Johnson was injured, losing our threat on the break. Anichebe and Vaughan have adjusted superbly so far in the Premiership but we can't rely on them to carry us through a European campaign or consoloidate a top six finish as first choice main strikers.

Bluetrip ................. " After Spurs, I think Newcastle are going to be our biggest rivals next season."

 

....

 

I agree with everything you said, which makes it imperitive that we sign a few decent players this summer, its not going to be easy for our squad to maintain a good league position against Spurs and Newcs, especially with the added distraction and extra games of Euro Footy.

I was partly relieved when we got knocked out of the domestic cups this year because I knew if we'd stayed in it our paper thin squad, it probably would have left us struggling for a top seven finish.

I dont think we can afford to be tentative in the transfer market this year and bide our time until the perfect players come along at the right price. DM, on past experience tends to play a safe game signing grafters, team players over individuals, players on loan, cast offs from his mate Ferguson. It's been a hugely if unspectacular successfull strategy which has guided us out a sixteen year paralysis, but our rivals will be spending big this close season. We can't keep waiting for Osman and McFadden to start full filling their so-called potential. They will be peripheral squad players as long as they remain at Goodison, its time to move on.

We need a striker (preferably two and fuck BT off to Blackburn), winger and left back in that order. I'd like to see another creative centre mid as well and a good utlity player to pad the squad out.

Allerdyce played Bolton as a defensive pressure team for the same reason as moyes, its the only way get consistant results on a shoestring.

Newcastle have a much better squad than their position told suggested this year, they need some strong guidence and he's one of the best man managers about in the UK. Should have had the England job over the ginger doughnut but that's not saying much, I know. A lot of people seem to think he's an old school manager out of touch with his direct play.

But he's used a lot of his resources at Bolton to employ world renowned fitness scientists, continental technical coaches and nutritionists to get the last ounce out of a team of average players. I wouldn't be suprised if Bolton struggle big time next season and go the same way as charlton post Curbs, even if if Sammy Lee keeps things the same.

If he's given a 25M+ warchest with the TV money Allardyce will take Newcastle towards a UEFA cup place next year, overtaking his old team, Reading and Portsmouth. After Spurs, I think Newcastle are going to be our biggest rivals next season.

Er..isnt that how every business works? The owners take a loan and some part of the loan is slowly payed off from the profits make by the company.

 

What you've not quoted is the number of times, Hicks and Gillet have said that they'll support Rafa in the transfer market. They havent put a number on the budget but have said that they'll support Rafa in the window, financially. Moores wouldnt have sold us to them if he didnt think that they'd support us in the market; he just wouldnt have. Hicks has pumped in millions into his Ice Hockey side and helped them win the Stanley Cup. Same as with their baseball sides.

 

And we're a top three side already. The only team i can see falling from the top four ladder is Arsenal, and that too only if they lose Henry (and dont sign eto'o or someone equivalent).

We're not, no. But its looking good for us.

David Moores as much as we loved him (he forked out 9.5 million pounds from his own pocket to fund for Dirk Kuyt, LFC through and through) knew that we'd need real money if we were to push towards the next level.(we also had a stadium to fund for). We were never going to be able to challenge for the league under him as we were always going to be out priced for the bigger players by the richer clubs. He sold the club only with the clubs main interests in mind and hence it took so long for him to find suitors for us. I know that this is a business, but i also do know that they're going to pump some money in the market, hopefully which'll see us buy whichever players we want (as opposed to the sell to buy, state which occured last year).

 

I can see us challenging next year but not winning it, have had too many years of saying that but hopefully this time the belief will hold true. Maybe we'll win it the year after next. Lets wait and watch eh?

Well you said it. I dont think theres been a solitary time since the Premiership's conception 16 years ago when I havent heard a Liverpool supporter they'll be challenging for the title, especially the chuckle brother pundits on Match of the Day.

Around Christmas the excuses start wheeling out and by May, without a challenge in sight, the drum starts banging along with Liverpool will be in with a shout next season. Every year the same prediction, every year the same result, no one outside of the club takes it seriously.

Rumours are we are looking at signing back Gavin Mcann who we let go in 98 to Sunderland.

http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=40627

Hope they get battered beyond embarassment but I'll settle for 1-0 Kaka.

The bookies havent given the RS a chance at 13/5, AC Milan 11/8 and 2/1 the draw.

They compared it to their Weetabix takeover....you can hear the alarm bells ringing. I'm wondering if they've bitten off more than they can chew.

Liverpool aren't even close to the Mancs & Chelsea in terms of the quality and consistency needed to win a league title. Not the CL but the long slog with grit to dig in away to the likes of portsmouth, fulham, west ham, blackburn and the other below standard teams who beat them this season. Over 38 games they are going to be found wanting and I don't see the new investors changing that without investing a hell of a lot of cash. They are in it purely for business - to make money on their investment and if Liverpool's valuation starts taking a nose dive I'm sure they'll drop it like a hot potato.

We knew the liverpool buyout was on the back of a loan like the Mancs but unlike them, Liverpool aren't in the same bracket. If they screw up and don't get into the CL next year or the year after - it will fuck them right up and their new owners won't have the capital to bail them out. All hypothetical of course but it's not quite the rosey picture painted during the takeover.

Can't fault the honesty of the American owners, I wish our board were as transparent, not sure they've done them selves any favours though. Easy to say this now but when the results dont come in it may come back to haunt them.

"LIVERPOOL FANS TOLD STRAIGHT - 'YOU'RE PAYING FOR US TO OWN YOUR CLUB'

Tuesday 22nd May 2007

The only difference for us is the lack of honesty.

Liverpool's American owner Tom Hicks spelt out the absolute reality behind his takeover of the club to the Guardian. He and business partner George Gillett borrowed £178m to buy the club and there is no doubt in Hicks' mind about where the money will come from to fund this.

"Hopefully the club will have extra cash flow so they can pay us a dividend to do that. If they don't, then it will come from our pockets. But the club will have to have profits sufficient to pay those dividends.

"When I was in the leverage buy-out business we bought Weetabix and we leveraged it up to make our return. You could say that anyone who was eating Weetabix was paying for our purchase of Weetabix. It was just business. It is the same for Liverpool; revenues come in from whatever source and go out to whatever source and, if there is money left over, it is profit."

When the situation was compared to that at Old Trafford, Hicks said, "They were the first. There were fans who honestly believed that, if an American owner came in and borrowed some of the purchase price, it could be the end of the club's success. I think things changed when people saw that the Glazers didn't necessarily turn out to be the end of Manchester football."

Try telling that to the poor f*ckers struggling to find the extra money to keep their Season Tickets after another mammoth rise. Still at least these Americans are willing to be honest about what they're doing."

from: http://www.redissue.co.uk/news/loadnews.as...W&id=339220

First eleven, player for player who would you straight swap? Not many for me:

Robinson - Howard - No

Chimbonda - Neville - No

Dawson - Yobo - No

King - Lescott - No

Ekotto - Valente - Possibly

Malbranque - Osman - Yes

Zokora - Cahill - No

Jenas - Fernandes No(if he stays - otherwise yes)

Lennon - Arteta - No

Keane - Johnson - no

Berbatov - BT- Yes

So I have 3 possibly four better positions depending if we keep Fernandes. After seeing that, with in the intention of discounting my bias I had a look at the Official Premier League Top 100 players (Actim Stats). We have five in the top 30 to their one and seven in the top 100 to their six (see below).

Obviously they have invested heavily in buying average squad players and through the course of a season containing a European campaign they would fair better as is. But I think Moyes will be bringing in several utility players over the summer plus a quality striker. With a bit of luck we can push on and challenge for fourth place. That will have to be the aim next season however unachievable it is with the amount of money that lot spend.

1 didier drogba Chelsea 628

2 cristiano ronaldo Manchester United 617

3 dimitar berbatov Tottenham Hotspur 611

4 wayne rooney Manchester United 580

5 frank lampard Chelsea 572

6 mikel arteta Everton 567

7 cesc fabregas Arsenal 565

8 gareth barry Aston Villa 561

9 benni mccarthy Blackburn Rovers 535

10 gabriel agbonlahor Aston Villa 517

11 ryan giggs Manchester United 505

12 andy johnson Everton 498

13 david james Portsmouth 489

14 dirk kuyt Liverpool 487

15 el-hadji diouf Bolton Wanderers 483

16 marcus hahnemann Reading 482

17 steven gerrard Liverpool 481

18 paul scholes Manchester United 477

19 steve finnan Liverpool 469

20 matthew taylor Portsmouth 468

21 tim howard Everton 467

22 gilberto Arsenal 467

23 ricardo carvalho Chelsea 463

24 edwin van der sar Manchester United 462

25 jose reina Liverpool 462

26 rio ferdinand Manchester United 461

27 phil neville Everton 454

28 kolo toure Arsenal 454

29 david bentley Blackburn Rovers 453

30 joleon lescott Everton 452

31 michael carrick Manchester United 445

32 nicolas anelka Bolton Wanderers 444

33 brad friedel Blackburn Rovers 443

34 nicky shorey Reading 441

35 pascal chimbonda Tottenham Hotspur 440

36 jens lehmann Arsenal 439

37 emanuel pogatetz Middlesbrough 435

38 paul robinson Tottenham Hotspur 426

39 michael dawson Tottenham Hotspur 425

40 jussi jaaskelainen Bolton Wanderers 423

41 ashley young Aston Villa 420

42 nemanja vidic Manchester United 418

43 kevin doyle Reading 418

44 jamie carragher Liverpool 417

45 stewart downing Middlesbrough 416

46 richard dunne Manchester City 414

47 liam rosenior Fulham 412

48 gary speed Bolton Wanderers 412

49 gary o'neil Portsmouth 411

50 olof mellberg Aston Villa 411

51 kanu Portsmouth 410

52 emmanuel adebayor Arsenal 408

53 mark schwarzer Middlesbrough 407

54 gary neville Manchester United 406

55 andriy shevchenko Chelsea 403

56 ivan campo Bolton Wanderers 403

57 sylvain distin Manchester City 401

58 peter crouch Liverpool 398

59 mark viduka Middlesbrough 398

60 morten gamst pedersen Blackburn Rovers 398

61 joey barton Manchester City 396

62 patrice evra Manchester United 393

63 xabi alonso Liverpool 392

64 joseph yobo Everton 391

65 alexander hleb Arsenal 389

66 jermaine pennant Liverpool 386

67 michael essien Chelsea 381

68 aaron lennon Tottenham Hotspur 376

69 ivar ingimarsson Reading 376

70 linvoy primus Portsmouth 372

71 kevin davies Bolton Wanderers 371

72 john terry Chelsea 370

73 abdoulaye meite Bolton Wanderers 369

74 darren bent Charlton Athletic 368

75 james milner Newcastle United 366

76 brett emerton Blackburn Rovers 365

77 steven taylor Newcastle United 363

78 andrew taylor Middlesbrough 361

79 brian mcbride Fulham 357

80 scott carson Charlton Athletic 356

81 lucas neill West Ham United 355

82 lee carsley Everton 349

83 thierry henry Arsenal 349

84 stephen hunt Reading 349

85 louis saha Manchester United 348

86 bobby zamora West Ham United 346

87 john o'shea Manchester United 345

88 talal el karkouri Charlton Athletic 345

89 sol campbell Portsmouth 344

90 george boateng Middlesbrough 343

91 thomas sorensen Aston Villa 341

92 ayegbeni yakubu Middlesbrough 340

93 robin van persie Arsenal 340

94 salomon kalou Chelsea 337

95 michael ballack Chelsea 337

96 daniel agger Liverpool 337

97 claude makelele Chelsea 336

98 nicky hunt Bolton Wanderers 335

99 jermaine jenas Tottenham Hotspur 334

100 obafemi martins Newcastle United 332

If they play their second string and put in a half arsed performance like last night I think a draw is certainly doable.

Great result, when Naysmith scores a diving header you know its our day, makes it all the more sweet with Reading and Bolton getting spanked.

Reading 0 - Watford 2

No idea how much we'll spend but I'd hazard guess at a big fee (fernandes) which translates to a small wedge dependent on a lot of factors plus Barton for his 5.5M release clause. If the TV money & revenue we have from selling the deadwood ends up getting completely swallowed up without explanation like has done in the past I'll be pissed off.

I have to admit I will be a lot more nervous next time Turner's standing in for Howard now I've seen him make a mistake like that. As previously mentioned, it's the second almighty calamity in as many games. He did make a couple of excellent saves though. Notably against Rooney and Ronaldo - who are possibly the last two players in the Premiership you want bearing down on your keeper one on one. So credit where it's due, but a keeper's value is judged on consistency and the mistakes made and at 22 he can't afford many more at this level, especially when you consider the likes of Czech, Reina and the up and coming Ben Foster are only 24.

I don't think it's fair to make Turner the sole scapegoat though. We looked like coneceding for the majority of the match giving posession away far too cheaply and they were running us down every time we didnt. This is a personal gripe of mine, it requires desire not skill to keep pressure on for 90 minutes but we don't do it. For two of the goals Stubbs was completely out of position and that combined with his and Hibbert's resolute insistance on hoofing a direct ball whenever the ball comes their way contributed to us staying on the back foot for most of the game. We got what we deserved in the end, nothing.

Speaking of Bill Gates, Paul Allen who happens to be the 19th richest man in the world is being linked at a takeover of Southampton. Why not Everton???

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=Au0E...t&type=lgns

Because Kenwright doesn't want to sell, it's as simple as that.

Terrible cleanrance from hibbo and it had to be shrek didnt it.

What the heck happened on Neville's own goal? I am watching it on gamecast and can't see the game.

Lost his composure on a goal line clearence and poked it into the goal, again no immediate pressure. Two very soft goals to concede to a team of this quality. It's gona be backs to the wall now.

This game is ours had to happen, best way to send off Bally

That's probably the worst drop I've seen at this level under no pressure. I hope his confidence isn't in too much of a shambles.

Can't see us holding on for the rest of the game if we dont start pushing out.

He can be ok but I think this might be more of a matey thing becuase i wouldnt have him in our best 11

 

Howard

 

Hibbert Yobo Stubbs Lescott

 

Osman Fernandes Cahill Arteta

 

Johnson Vaughan

 

Turner

Neville

Valente

Mc Fadden

Anichebe

 

Id say that to be our best 11 with what we have

 

I think we should get a winger and Fernandes then get a striker

The long ball donkeys...Stubbs is great to have when it's backs to the wall defending but when we're chasing a lead he's the biggest culprit for hoofing the long 50/50 pass. The annoying part is he actually demands the ball off someone who would keep posession to do it. Naysmith is almost as bad which is why we're more threatening going forward with Lescott. Neville does it less when he plays in the middle and can thread a killer pass though he can be up there with stubbs. When you're watching a very nervous west ham side try and hold on to one of their very few wins this season, chipping the direct ball into the path of big defenders is playing straight into their hands and it gave them more confidence as the game went on.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't nervous about the run in. The Portsmouth game is a must win for us.

Bolton

Chelsea (h) Sunday, 22 April

West Ham (h) Sat 5 May

Villa (a) Sun 13 May

Reading

Newcastle (h) Mon 30 May

Watford (h) Sat 5th May

Blackburn (a) Sun 13th May

Tottenham

Middlesbrough (h) Sat 28 Apr

Charlton (h) Mon 7th May

Blackburn (a) Thu 10 May

Man City (a) Sun 13 May

Portsmouth

Villa (h) Sun 22 Apr

Liverpool (h) Sat 28 Apr

Everton (h) Sat 5 May

Arsenal (a) Sun 13 May

To be honest if you look at our goal difference this season it stacks up against any goal difference of teams finishing out side the 'top 4' any season since the Prem started.

 

by the law of averages half the teams should have a positive goal difference and half the teams should have a negative goal difference.

 

but it never worth out like this or even near this. This is another indicator to how top heavy the English Premiership is. When the top 4 usually have such a heathy positive goal difference and ANY team outside those DOES WELL to have a positive goal difference at all.

 

It is so positive for us to have such a good goals difference this season. Especially when you consider its not all down to any one man having a blinding season - take our top scorers goals away and we are still in positive goal - really a good sign if you ask me.

 

Can we get beyond 5th place - can any team get in to the top 4 - Arsenal have had a really POOR season by their standards and they are still 8 point ahead of 5th place. I imagine they will do better next year, can also see Liverpool getting stronger with the money thats come it. Given the game in hand Man U and Chelsea have they are basically 30 point better of than us, so they won't slip up that much next year.

 

Realistically getting 5th place for the forseeable future is the best an team other than the top 4 can realistically hope for.

 

We nicked 4th a couple of years ago - but that was mainly becasue Liverpool had such a poor season rather than us breaking in to the top 4.

 

Tottenham almost did it last year, but again Arsenal had a poor season (but still finished 4th)

 

To get in to the top 4 is out of our hand or any other clubs hands - The only way to do it is if one of the current top 4 has a shit season - so you get there by default.

You just have to have a good season when one of the top 4 has a shit season.

 

We are all playing our own little league outside the top 4 I am afraid, and I can only seeing that carrying on for the next 2-3 year at least - Where 5th place make you best of the rest.

 

In all honesty the way things are going thats all we or any other club can hope for.

 

The biggest problem in our league is that there are only 4 Champions League places up for grabs. Now if you could also have 5th or even 6th place also up for grabs to get in to play offs for Champions League rather than the pointless second rate UEFA cup - I would just mean that every season your Bolton's, Tottenham's, Everton's and Villa's etc could have a chance of a play-off game to get in to the CL real.

 

One of my biggest problems with football is all players want that chance to play in the CL. You Arteta's, Lennon's and Pedersoons are not going to stay at clubs who have all but no chance of CL football. They will be a squad player rather than a first team starter. That slowly make the bigger clubs bigger.

 

Got of the point a little!!!

 

Anyway, great we are moving in the right direction, being in 5th position with a great goal difference, but where do you go from there and HOW!! 5th Place this year is going to more than 10 point behind Arsanal (who have had a poor season)

 

The biggest question in English football me thinks.

All too true and the worst part is it's self perpetuating. The longer the 'Four' stay in the position they're in, qualifying for the CL season after season raking in millions, the further away the other 16 clubs drift away.Without a serious investor nothing is going to change for any of those teams, we all jostle around fighting in the middle to bottom with the hope we can go the distance for a European place. Even then there's no money in the UEFA cup, great for us the fans though it's not going to help us raise a title challenge. But there comes a point where you have just got to sit back and embrace the fact we are pretty much doing as well as we possibly could at the moment. Top of our own acheivable league, I can't wait for next season.

no if we qualify for europe (which in my mind we will do) the board and moyes wont want to fuckup again so i reckon the board will do the good whip round to get the money.

I really hope you're right, he's exactly the kind of balance we need to bring into a grafting midfield but I can't see it. Johnson Lescott and Howard were all bought on the back of this seasons TV windfall and as we all know Kenright hasn't got any money to invest. With the interest in our debs and cash being earmarked for the new stadium I don't think we'll be seeing AJ's transfer record being broken this year or next.