johny

Incredible day. What a victory for the families.

Just came on here to say a little something about Bill Kenwright. When I think of the people we've had running Liverpool for the last 9 years and remember every little thoughtless snub and moments of sheer ignorance I can't help but reflect on what a fine custodian you've had these years. A man who, whatever his abilities as an administrator, I always believed conducted himself in a dignified and honest manor. Always seemed to genuinely want to do the right thing. It's so important today has proven that above all else I think. Anyway.. "They picked on the wrong mums" cheers Bill.

hello again.

From my point of view, it's not so much about replacing Suarez - we don't need to score 100+ league goals to have a good season - it's making sure the money we get for him counts for something. We conceded 50 goals, I think, last year. Shave a significant number off the GA column, improve the squad numbers so we're not reduced to bringing on the likes of aspas and moses to try and change games that aren't going our way, more depth in the creative departments to allow the develpoment of sterling and coutinho to continue without them bearing the extra burden of expectation that suarez leaving would bring, and share the goals more evenly between attack and midfield - these are all much more pressing issues than blowing the lot on someone like Falcao or Benzema and crossing our fingers he has a good season. Most importantly, it's a young squad with a lot of potential, next season isn't the be all and end all in terms of winning titles.

In short - if it means beating stoke 3-0 instead of 5-3 and being able to actually defend a set piece, and hold on to a lead at palace, then we'll take it.

So your saying that your owners are only allowing their manager (Dalglish/ Rodgers) to spend/reinvest the profit that the team/club are making..........a bit like Man City

nothing like man city, but yeah. under dalglish the net investment was around £35m, reports suggesting rodgers will be allowed £30m plus what he brings in through sales.

these figures are all in line with the savings we're making from the lower debt payments, which were around £40m a year under hicks.

the only time I remember us taking money off the chairman personally was a £10m loan David Moores gave us for Dirk Kuyt.

everton are a big club, you should be making much more of that

So, finishing below us this season was a big underachievement, does that mean finishing 3/4 places above us having spent mega millions more and paying sky high wages is a major success, even when you haven't actually won anything.So a major achievement for liverpool is to spend a fourtune and finish above their skint neighbour.....wow!

 

 

no, where did I say that? a major achievement was winning the league, or the european cup. Winning anything is an achievement.

 

 

You can and have fluked the odd cup win, fair play to you, it's those that have kept your profile high amongst glory hunters, but you have to go back nearly as far as us to your last league title. As the wise old Brian Clough said "he would swap his european cup, FA cup and league cup wins for a championship medal"

 

You can't argue with your league position, except to say thank god you had generous owners, else where might you have finished.I know it must hurt to see an impoverished Everton above you.

 

 

you don't seem to be able to grasp this, I don't know why as it's not very hard to understand, our owners are only allowing the manager to spend what the club earns. it's not "generosity", the money isn't coming from their pockets.

 

 

You may finish above us next season, but let's be honest, it will probably depend on how much you spend.You are a mid-table team with your second lot of rich owners, your very, very lucky.

 

 

what's luck got to do with it? It's just good business. our owners bought the club off the banks the day we were due to go into administration. the only difference between then and now is that we have owners that allow the club to reinvest it's profits in the team, rather than bringing the club to the brink of insolvency with massive interest charges.

 

 

Most Evertonians would love an investor, but if it meant becoming the circus lfc have become, then personally, I'd rather not.

liverpool had lots of lovely money to spend last season, and spend it Kenny did, still couldn't finish above a team with a skint chairman and a loser of a manager!

For all yor massive outlay, huge wage bill etc, your going to need more than an odd carling cup win for kids to start throwing their money at you.

You didn't answer my question, if Brendon/liverpool finish below skint Everton again next season, do the yanks sack him?

a skint chairman has nothing to do with it, like I said there's only 2 teams getting money off theirs. It's more a case of incompetence, don't you think?

and you didn't ask me the question, it was redside, but seen as you have now then yes, I imagine they will. Finishing below everton is not good enough, and a big underachievement.

on your other points...these kids already are throwing the money at us, our kits are the 4th highest sellers on the planet. our worldwide marketability means we can break records with our shirt sponsorship, and kit manufacturing deals, and this isn't a club from some huge european capital, it's the club a quarter mile from your own. It certainly weren't league cups that put us there, but don't kid yourself, you would kill for a small slice of success.

 

So if FSG give him enough money to buy your way back to top 4 you'll be happy!

 

If they'd given your last two managers enough money and time they could well have bought top 4.Sure Kenny and Roy would have needed a shed full of cash, but in the end ENOUGH cash and ENOUGH time and they could well have done it.

 

We all understand that it wont be fair if your not given enough cash to get yourselves back above Everton.

 

It will be hard to swallow when you all see how well Rodgers handles the press and the pr side of the job, it sure is going to make King Kenny look like a prick!

 

Rodgers inherits a multi million pound squad, he will be given megabucks to spend, maybe he can buy you a 4th or 5th position or even better....does that make him a great manager, or a manager who can buy top players and pay top wages?

 

If you finish below Everton again next season, does he survive!

big clubs have massive income streams they get to spend, it's tough shit really.

start winning things and millions of kids on every continent will begin to throw money at your club.

if you sit there though defending a chairman who either can't, or won't secure investment or sell up, and a manager who doesn't know how to win big games, then you can't really complain that other teams are getting to spend all the lovely money they earn.

only 2 teams in england get to spend money right out of their chairman's pockets, everyone else does it the hard way.

not sure why he is so inferior to redknapp? what has redknapp done that is so amazing? also...he hasn't managed internationally..look what roy did with switzerland

redknapp would be a disaster.

what's he had, one european campaign in his entire career?

1 fa cup and a league cup in nearly 30 years as a manager.

his dog has bankrupt more clubs than he's won trophies.

I'm not holding my breath but at least it isn't Steve McLaren.

http://cdn.caughtoffside.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Roy-Hodgsons-tactics-board.jpg

*jaws theme music*

http://i.imm.io/nIpx.jpeg

I'll think You will find that You brought Liverpool into it with Your first post on how He handled criticism as it's obvious it was from His time their You are refering to.

 

Also the reason I brough Dalglish into it has already been stated You melt, I don't think He's a great manager but think He may be able to do a decent job certainly as good as any other English candidate.

 

I don't care nor do I ever want to know more then Liverpools supporters that was never in the frame but the facts are and where there for all to see which I stated on page 1 with the dummy spitting.

 

You started talking bollocks when I questioned Your opinion on why Roy is such a poor manager or at least in His time their and why many probably including Yourself revere Dalglish as a top manager by basing things on %

 

Like I said time will tell and cheers for the carrot remark maybe You should hang Me infront of Andy Carroll and direct Me towards the goal.

1. No need, I'll just ask Fellani to mark you.

2. Of course I was talking about his time at Liverpool, when did I deny that, and what else would I base it on...what the press say?

3. Dalglish is revered for many things. Percentages aren't one though, we can't get anything to rhyme with it for a start.

That was just a simple and convenient way of showing how bad Hodgson was here, and why people turned on him. Not because we all study winning percentage figures on wikipedia, but because in the real world he lost loads of games he shouldn't. That, and his tactics were crap. And the football we played under him was crap. And the shite he spouted daily in press conferences was crap. And the fact that the press, and rest of the country were so up in arms that we dared to have an opinion on our own manager. Quite a lot of reasons, looking back.

Anyway, we're both very happy with this news, albeit for different reasons, so lets make love, not war. I'll happily drink to a summer of football with Roy Hodgson in charge of England!

and that man has still got a willy on his head ^^

Your just talking absolute bollocks now fella none of that bares any relevance to how good a manger He is and how fickle fans can be when it suits them!

 

Again My point stands to which I will bow out of this one and let time play it's part but like I said in My previous post most of the bad feeling toward Hodgson comes from bitter reds who wanted "the messiah" back...

Your just talking absolute bollocks now fella none of that bares any relevance to how good a manger He is and how fickle fans can be when it suits them!

 

Again My point stands to which I will bow out of this one and let time play it's part but like I said in My previous post most of the bad feeling toward Hodgson comes from bitter reds who wanted "the messiah" back...

You were the one who brought up Dalglish, not me. This is about Hodgson you carrot, unless the FA give the job to Kenny that whole argument is meaningless.

You seem to think he's a good manager, I think he isn't. It's really that simple.

And as you clearly seem to know more about what Liverpool fans think than I do, I find that a very strange point of view to say the least.

Anyway, I'm sure you know best, England are in safe hands and all that.

They're 2/1 to not qualify from their group though...just saying!

I'm not arsed who Your replying to I'm stating My opinion on Your post.

 

No the players never played for Him as stated earlier due to the fact Dalglish put His name forward for the role before Hodgson was given the job but had His application rejected to which nearly every cunt at LFC spat their dummy's out.

 

He was not wanted from the word go as the messiah was and hence why the players never wanted to perform for Him which was pretty obvious to see.

 

Also whilst Your banging on about percentages how many shite fans think that Dalglish is a top manager and could cut it at National level I bet nearly every one of them thinks He is and could!?

 

yet with around 200M spent and with a longer time in the hotseat thus far then Hodgson His win percentage is still only what 5% higher!? but still He's a top manager ey but Roy is not.

so you agree he's a poor motivator then?

Dalglish's 3 European Cups, 8 League titles, and 2 FA Cups means he's revered here, yes. The dozens and dozens of funerals he attended in a period of weeks after hillsborough, most of them kids, count for a lot too. Does that surprise you? Look at Newcastle, all it takes is a dead badger on your head to be called a "messiah" there.

And feel free to itemise this £200m you keep mentioning. I don't need another laugh today, but I'll take one anyway.

Fair enough, but gutless no plan B performances on the biggest stage are unforgivable....if you play well and lose to a better team all well and good, but if you surrender you need to move on.

No plan B was one of his biggest downfalls here. Tactically inept.

I really couldn't give a flying fuck how the shite perceived Him that bares no relevance to any of this that deluded lot never backed the man once and as everyone could see the players never turned up and played for Him.

 

Also You have just reiterated My point regarding what said managers have won, those win percentages mean sweet fa if your not beating teams when it matters and all the domestic success in the world will not guarantee any manager success on the international stage.

england have only ever beaten someone "when it mattered" once in their entire history. It's this bizarre insistence that they should somehow be doing better that I find strange. What is it based on?

and, I was replying to pete and marco when I was talking about "how the shite perceived him", not you. although thanks for allowing me this opportunity to reiterate how the cold hard facts influenced this perception.

The players didn't play for him? Their motivation to play for him was his remit, not ours. These are the same players who had apparently fallen out of love with Benitez's aloof nature, don't forget.

anyway, like I said, time will bare this one out...I've no doubt.

Think you're right, Brazil and NI (not including penalty shootouts).

 

But the point was that when it really mattered, three big quarter finals, we never looked like winning.

I think that was more down to the fact that we were playing much better teams than us.

In fact, taking Portugal to pennos was beyond what I expected.

i was just wonderin with you mentioning the worst win % record that's all...i'm pretty indifferent to the appointment...he's experienced enough..we'll see what happens

just to highlight the fact that it was poor results that had the fans turn on him, not Benitez. Everyone wanted success when he came, nobody was willing us to lose at home to Northampton and Blackpool, but we did anyway.

I said nearly not all but yeah I could have worded it better but the point stands and I will take the word of those many professionals who have worked for or under Him over an opinion from a member of a forum as they have inside and personal knowledge of how He works.

 

It just doesn't come down to what you've won look at Capello a man revered as a top top coach and manager who has won an abundance of trophies same with Eriksson.

 

The trouble is the FA wanted an English manager and other then Redknapp and Pardew who else is there who could do as good a job as Roy possibly could? I think most would have loved Pep Jose and many other's My personal target would have been Marcelo Bielsa.

 

At the end of the day not one of us really knows how it will pan out for Him I just see Him as a man that may in the long run be a good choice.

Capello's win percentage with England was 67%.

Erricsson famously lost only 2 (I think? perhaps not that famously then!) competitive games. They were hounded out by the press who wanted an Englishman instead to bring us the kind of unmitigated success the likes of Keegan, Hoddle, and Mcclaren brought.

a big, big problem for the FA, the press, and England supporters is that England are shit. Capello was a managerial genius, and look how that ended.

isn't dalglish's win % worse than hodgson's...this stint alone obviously

no idea. How would that impact on the way Hodgson was perceived by Liverpool fans in 2010/2011?

just checked anyway...no.

the hodge's 41% vs Kenny's 48%

No but the many who have been interviewed live on Skysports Talksport and many more have said just that smart arse.

 

I've already mentioned the handling of criticism for Me that could be His downfall but the only time I have seen Him sway under pressure it was at the shite and let's be honest new owners coming in not the man the players wanted nor did they play once for Him made His tenure there a doomed one from the word go.

 

Like You say We shall see but I do think IF He's given a chance He would do a good job in the longer term then Redknapp would have who may have brought a brief but not long lived spark.

you said most of the players who've ever played under him have praised him for the things I criticised him for, i.e. his tactics, how he rejects personal criticism, and how he blames others. I disagree.

and pete, he won LMA manager of the year after guiding fulham to a bottom half finish, 5 places lower than the previous season, losing 16 games, and scoring fewer goals than burnley along the way. That's fine if, like the LMA, you tend to reward people for exceeding very low expectations. UEFA, and FIFA, don't.

As for "fall guy", his win % for us makes him, Graeme Souness aside, the worst Liverpool manager results wise since 1956. He was knocked out of a cup by the team 3rd from bottom of the football league, at home! Any set of fans who would settle for that deserve everything they get.

And finally, only ever failed at Liverpool. Sacked at Bristol City, Blackburn, Udinese, and Liverpool. Not to mention being mutually consented out of Inter. The man the FA have not only employed as manager, but also effectlvly as technical director of their swanky new youth acadamy has won nothing other than domestic titles and cups in minor european leagues. And nothing at all since 2001.

If you're happy with that, then that makes two of us, but try and remember which of us has actually supported, and regularly watched live, a team managed by him.

That's quite funny in itself as nearly every professional and ex player who know or have worked with Him have sang His praises for just those things You have highlighted as being His negatives!

haha did these hundreds, if not thousands of players over the last 36 years all tell you that personally, or did you read it in the English press?

I'm not sure I've ever seen him praised for his ability to deflect critisicm either, being honest?

just wait and see, that's all I'm saying.

This is brilliant news. Euro 2012 is going to be hilarious, the man is a tactical dinosaur.

And for anyone who honestly believes his nice guy image, when things start to go wrong, and his mates in the press stop writing his PR for him, the whole country will see just how dignified he actually is.

Roy's MO

Play appallingly poor 442 football straight from 1982, designed simply to try and avoid defeat.

Get criticised

Accept no responsibility whatsoever

Blame everyone and everything else

Point out that he's got x amount of years experience (winning nothing outside scandinavia), therefore it simply can't be his fault.

Get sacked

It's going to be emotional.

it's not about minute details mate, it's been completely made up by someone with an agenda.

anyway, the frustrating thing about it all is the fact that all the informaion is already out there...the interim taylor report, steve rotheram's brilliant parlamentary address etc...

if anyone wants to educate themselves, or anyone else about the facts of that day, the presentation on this site is a MUST:-

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

still amazes me that amount of shit that people spot to this day about "drunk and ticketless" fans. shows how much people allow the tabloids to control their opinions I guess?

first of all, drunken fans...can anyone name me a single organised football match in the entire history of the game that has featured a completely sober crowd? so, lets put that to one side eh?

next, ticketless fans. I've no doubt there were some people there without tickets, but as the leppings lane end was UNDER capacity at the time the game was called off, I'm at a loss as to see how this was in any way a factor. Especially if you consider the cctv footage overlooking the exit gate that was opened. the footage that shows people walking calmly through the gate, the "drunken mob of 1000s hell bent on forcing their way into the ground" must have been in camoflage, or invisible.

or made up by guilty officials.

As for people turning up late feeling guilty? well, it probably was their fault they didn't book the flying coaches, they should've known regular transport would be held up in the roadworks, the bastards. But even if every single liverpool fan had arrived at the ground 1 hour before kick off, the amount of turnstyles allocated to them, all working at full capacity none-stop wouldn't have been able to admit them all in time. And anyway, ask yourself honestly, does everyone turn up at goodison that early, or anywhere else for that matter.

even the ticket stubs advised people to turn up only 30 mins before kick off, which would've meant the last people getting admitted some time around half-time!

As for people pushing, even if it happened, which all eyewitness accounts deny, how can people pushing at the entrance to a 30ft tunnel kill everyone at the front of the terrace, separated by thousands of people and dozens of crush barriers? it can't. what happened was the same thing that always happens if those situations, people just shuffle forwards whenever space in front of them opens up. the crush was a constant build up of pressure at the front of the pens caused by the space inside the pens being slowly taken up by more and more bodies. the only surge occured when one of the crush barriers gave way.

and finally, the prisoner, people are still suffering to this day so don't just fucking make things up eh? there were no seats.

my mums amazin...and that's a comb

Comb?! You'll be telling me your avatar isn't a bottom in a hat next!

Seriously though, that 3rd goal was hardly simply a tap in, he started the move in his own half, drove forward 50yds with the ball and played a 1-2 to get in that "right place, right time". The movement and touch to get him in for the early chance Howard saved was world class too.

Also, ignoring the fact he was boss all game, that hat-trick is a feat not achieved in a derby for the last 30 years...give him some credit!

Combs don't look like willys!!!

^ why has this smiley got a willy on his head?

anyway...marco, your mam sounds great.