FanchesterCity

Mindful of 'city' comparisons - but he reminds me of Paul Dickov (but stronger). Works incredibly hard, and his work rate gets him goals. Agree he's never a potent out and out striker, but then again, I don't think he's ever really been in a position where he could try to be. By that - I mean, of course he's been played as a striker at Everton, but he's had to do a lot more work than many other strikers do. For other teams - he's a pain in the arse - and that's always the type of player you want in your team. But the better teams will snuff him out and Everton need another outlet for those games. Moyes also made a point of backing the chairman - since Moyes has been with Everton for a quite a while, there's every reason to believe he's telling the truth that BK's a fine chairman. I'm inclined to believe him and BK's motivation is to do the best for Everton (that of course, doesn't mean he makes the right choices!).

Interesting on Cahill yes... I suppose some managers might say "he's the best option, period". And others might say "I thought he was the best option for this specific game". If he's the best option every time, then yes, that's worrying. Great player, but there's only one of him, and it's a long season and he's not getting any younger.

Mr Moyes was on Talksport this morning - talking about the upcoming derby predominantly but a few other matters to. Whenever this guy speaks he comes across as down to earth, realistic and pragmatic. After match interviews might be a tad questionable, but normal 'cool light of day' interviews he comes across as a fantastic guy to have at the helm. Although different to a couple of others - Dave Whelan, Harry Redknap, Allardyce etc - he just says it how it is. Once again, from an outsiders point of view - it's very hard to think of another manager you'd rather have at the helm, and I'm absolutely convinced he has (or has had) the chance to move elsewhere. He mentioned the financial issues - and the need for 'something' to happen re the stadium simply to improve revenue. Talked about Tevez (backed Mancini) and joked about 'there's a position for him at Everton!', and mentioned that he'd stopped Arteta from going last year, but had to cave in eventually. The way he presented it was 'had to let the lad go, it was only fair having kept him already for a year'. Anyway, as Talksport interviews go (never that good) he was excellent I thought.

Clubs see projects like this as a brilliant way to increase there presence in the community, capture some of the kids (fans and players) as they grow up, get fantastic PR and increase their business footprint. WHEN / IF stuff like this goes well, sponsors love it too - positive clubs doing good etc etc. It's simply another canny move to do more than just football (but just happens to do some good in the process too (potentially)). There are of course, totally legitimate concerns about how far commercial entities should go - and I laughed at the comment about the Simpson and Coca Cola schooling - a VERY good illustration. All in all thought, I think the clubs are being legitimate - just unsure about their actual ability / conflict of interest in the long term.

There's no better pair up front, providing you can give them the service from deep

Is this the Thinking Mens' Evertonians?.... only I can't stand the other lot... the Evertonian Thinking Men... and goes without saying what I think of the effin' Thinking Evertonian Men. *ducks*

What did the Romans ever actually do for us? (other than Mancini)

City peaked at 135 million for wages! (but it's on the way back down now) But back on topic - looks like Everton's wages are pretty 'normal' and not excessive by most clubs standards, arguably a bit low in comparison with their key rivals / clubs of similar size (don't want to get in a size war!) - for the sake of argument - City, Villa, Spurs, Newcastle, Everton

Revenues for 2010 Debts 2010:

Don't believe all you read in the papers! Plus we had a lot of players out on loan - Bellamy, Bridge, Santa Cruz, Adebayor (not 100% sure on the timing), so chances are other clubs were paying wages, or contributing to them. In 2010, our revenue was just a tiny bit more than Everton, but spending a lot more (proportionally on wages). Our revenue has gone up significantly since then, as have the wages :-( but we seem to be coming back down on the wages now we've offloaded folks.

Again - 2010 figures, but I expect Everton figures are mostly 'stable' - Some of the clubs towards the top will have shuffled - naming no names (not necessary !)

Approx 50 million for Year End 2010. Not sure how many players that would include. - 50 ish?

Got to be careful with stats of course, cos you can get daft stuff like 'not playing him in easy games, and they win those'... But that's still quite surprising. Often the way though - perception vs reality can be quite different. I've always thought him a fine player, but often thought too much emphasis placed on him. 4 years ago, would have had him in my lot every day of the week, but not now. He'll be a weakness for Liverpool soon - the fans won't see the demise for 2-3 years after everybody else does. Bit like Carragher now. I'll have to have a look at that site - some sad bugger's had to collect all that data!

Hummm is that ' win more without him' stat actually true? if it is, that's a turn up

Why, is it leaning to one side? ;-)

Ah I worried about that when I posted it... I didn't mean 'decreasing in number' I literally meant DYING... getting old and snuffing it, ergo obviously the future is in the kids, and to 'expand' you have to look at the younger end more than the dying older end (not to say you can't attract a few oldies too). This is my worry for many clubs and the commercial nature of football. There will always be Everton fans - goes without saying, but so much TV and marketing - clubs like Chelsea, and possibly City of late are 'fashionable' - and young kids get suckered in - they KNOW who Lampard is, or Torres, or Rooney. But they're sure about Cahill. It's awful, but a reality. If Everton don't grab their share of the kids, United and Liverpool and Chelsea etc will. That's what I meant by dying! Apologies if you thought dwindling (but like all clubs, numbers will fall (to a certain level) if they aren't winning, and money's becoming a problem for many fans too. I get sick of folks saying "you had empty seats at the league cup game" - erm yeah - cos people can't afford it, that's why. Football's not cheap anymore, and it's starting to slip from the grasp of traditional fan base :-( You're dead right on that. Costs me about 550 quid for City, and 450 ish for my son, then it's a fiver to park (10 quid in proper car parks), a brew and pie for us both, and that's another tenner, plus petrol blah blah blah. We sometimes go to Blackburn - lowest prices in the Prem - or Burnley too. god knows how people afford it with multiple kids and minimum wage (I'm guessing they dont?). It's why I give a toss about Everton (not because you're Everton) but you're a relatively local team, a tonne of history and yet you're struggling for money? - something VERY wrong with the game when the 'elite' of our clubs can't break even).

It's on an Everton vs City thread - threads die naturally when interest dies. What happens at my club is relevant to what happens at Everton - for good and bad. We went down a certain path and are experience the good and bad of that - these are issues that you could face too... (and in some cases ARE facing). If you genuinely want to help Everton, surely it's good to know the effects of potential decisions you're making? i.e.new stadium, new owners. If Everton are going to be back where they probably should be - and if the fan base is as worldwide as claimed, then you have to get used to Everton fans who will never come to the ground, or even see you play live. Fans who can't speak the language, and have never heard of Walton. If you're a global club, you're a global club, and the interest in Everton will extend to other fan bases too - not all of whom have an agenda, or share the 'can't stand Everton' view. Today it might look like City's issues and Everton's issues are a million miles apart - but things change quickly. This game only works with other teams to play against - and I for one want to be playing proper quality teams - and that's Everton (and dare I say Liverpool) and others. The future of Everton affects all fans. Remember, IF things go badly wrong at Everton (through no fault of your own) you might actually need the support of other fans. There are clubs just this weekend begging for other fans to turn up at their ground to help save them. One of the reasons I avoid the City boards is that it's just Sky Blue coloured vision all day. 'Rooney's crap', 'Liverpool deluded' etc. Fans seem all to willing to say "look at what Barca do, or Madrid" - but don't have the balls to look nearer and learn from other fans and teams - they get all phobic about it. If I'm a bloody top poster - you should be ashamed! (and I'm not). Everton aren't a bloody village team... I've like to think their fans have the same world view of football as the club. Open minded and expanding.

Genuinely don't know. He's been so very good for us, it's hard not to have a soft spot (but that's just melancholy). At the end of the day, even if it was a misunderstanding, at least LOOK concerned when you're losing 2-0. We are no longer inundated with strikers (by recent standards) and a lot of games to play, so there's a chance he'll play in league cup, or might HAVE to be used if we get injuries - but can you trust a man like that? can you actually trust he'll score for you? I just don't know. I think he was petulant and must feel a prize idiot. He'll be so sorry - not for us, but for the damage to his already questionable image. I think Mancini made a mistake last night in losing his rag (although he was holding together well in some regards). He should have said "no comment". The only way out for both of them now, is if they go down this 'said no to warming up' story... but that makes Mancini look like he made a mistake - he didn't. People say we can afford to keep him hanging around - that's true, BUT we need that 30-40 million we want for him to help with the financial fair play rules. We won't get 50 for him, 40 if we're lucky. I think we could get 30 for him, but he's not helped himself with this stunt. 30 million and 150K a week off our wage bill will do us nicely, but then we have 3 unproven front men. A questionable one (Dzeko), a liability one (Balotelli) and possibly the best of the bunch (Aguero) - but he's still unproven really - it's early days. I have a sneaky suspicion he might play again - yes. With a LOT of PR work from both sides, and probably in a low(ish) key cup game. He's a strange lad - he sits on his own in the dressing room quite a lot (I mean in his own little corner), and often sits alone on during travel too. Quite seriously, he is a bit mixed up. He made a shocking choice last night, shocking - the choice a silly young man sometimes makes. The very best thing he could do is say "I was angry and I wanted to get my own back on the manager - I was stupid, didn't think it through, I let EVERYBODY down... I have given up 6 months wages and will pay for every fan to traveled to be reimbursed." it's the only way forward is to come clean and take it like a man.

As great as Gerrard has been (possibly still is), is it RIGHT to upset a winning team? At what point do a forward thinking club start to see a player go past his peak, and then prepare for it? Do they start playing him for full 90 minutes still, but in less games? Do they keep playing him, and allow rose coloured specs to drag out his career? Or does he genuinely still have a LOT to offer and it's worth keeping him around at the expense of prolonging the nurturing of the next generation? There's always a danger with talismanic players ... teams being built around them, or 'automatic' on the team sheet etc. Would Everton fans have him in their team (assuming he'd not played for Liverpool in the past) ?

Sourced from someone in the dugout area last night - can't say more than that - so it's not the dressing room cleaner. and the real reason tevez hasn't played much is two fold - partly as a lesson, but mostly as I said - he wants to go, so in the long term, Mancini HAS to start preparing for him going - that's why he bought Aguero (who he was going to buy anyway), but will now be a total replacement for Tevez. Some fans will say he should still get whatever he can out of Tevez before he goes, and others will say "treat him as gone, and start workiing without him NOW" - I'm in the latter camp - since at least that way, you get a happy Aguero. Why get him upset too? and the sooner he settles, the better. This is what happens when you throw together a team in this way... no surprise really. They can be brilliant, but they are fragile - cos they aren't a team. It takes a lot of wins and a lot of time / stability to get that. Fergie manages it cos he rules with an iron fist from an early age... then bought in players coming into the team are already knowing the regime at United. City have no such reputation - but Mancini's slowly doing trying to do the same thing - no matter how good you are (Bellamy / Adebayor) if you're trouble, you're OUT. Good man I say.

It looks like he was moaning to Zabaletta about it all, and Zabaletta was ignoring him - cos he knew Tevez was in the wrong (Zab is a very well respected player). The rumour on the inside is this: 1) Tevez thought he was going to be in the starting 11, and wasn't and was told this sometime before arriving at the stadium. Tevez's mood was noticeable different after being told - but that's 'normal' (ish) 2) Tevez wasn't pleased - Mancini's been letting have the last 10 minutes recently - I suspect part of 'letting him know who's boss' 3) Tevez thought he was coming on for Dzeko, and got pissed that De Jong came on in midfield. (Mancini has some questionable logic to this, but he's the boss) 4) Tevez is asked to warm up (in order to come on 10 mins later) and gets funny about it (he's been warming up a lot of late and being made to wait, and wait). 5) There's some sort of altercation along the lines of 'I'm already warmed up, I'm not warming up again" 6) Tevez then starts some conversation with Zabaletta, and Zabaletta is trying to ignore him, but it slowly starting to fume... he's got a VERY disgruntled Dzeko on one side of him, and Tevez doing a little brat routine in his ear hole. 7) Zabaletta turns on Tevez! - believed to be along the lines of "It's not very polite to sit on your bum whilst we appear to be in a spot of bother" 8) Mancini THEN thinks Zabaletta is moaning too - it's a comedy of errors at this point! Mancini soon after the game apologises to Zabaletta for the misunderstanding with him. Summary - Dzeko pissed off and created a fuss as he comes off - VERY BAD form Tevez decides to sulk a little too much and goes a step too far (I suspect he thought he was being clever, and TRULY regrets it now) Zabaletta (Tevez's best interpreter) gets mad with Tevez for the stunt he's pulled Fact is - Tevez said no. Technically he was asked to warm up in preparation to come on, very soon. There was no 'misunderstanding'. Tevez might claim he only said "no" to warming up - but they are waiting for him to collude with his agent to come up with a 'story' on this. Mancini was fuming, but knew he was on TV - wasn't prepared to make it any more public at that point (although it was clearly an issue caught on TV). Mancini VERY upset (visibly, on TV - almost with tears in his eyes) just after the game, feeling let down - partly by Dzeko, partly by the loss in general, and of course with 'brat' Tevez. I felt for Mancini - too much power in Tevez hands and made ALL the worse because he's a cracking player. Mancini's HAD to drop him because City can't keep relying on him! We are planning for life without him (at Tevez's request!). That comes from a VERY VERY close source within the City setup. .e.g My mate is a mate of someone in the dressing room, and it's not admin / medical staff. Make of it what you will, but I believe it to be 100% accurate barring for mild chinese whispers

I agree with him too, but the future of the club doesn't lie with me, it lies with the kids... Pandering to my nolstagia would have been the wrong move. And looking back, City made the right choice. It's a bit different for Everton anyhow though... City were faced with a bit of a gift horse with the stadium, it was far easier (but still not easy) to grab the chance whilst we could. For Everton, it's much worse (now), having to fork out for the full cost of the stadium. That said, it's usually a lot more expensive / troublesome to do up an existing ground than build a new one - depending on how adventurous the plans are, and the very thing that makes Goodison Park so appealing (being right in the midst of the streets) is also what makes it so much more complicated. The existing Everton fan base is literally 'dying' - and more and more clubs are going all out to grab the kids and get them attached to their club. I've seen kids wandering about in Chelsea shirts!! Not that there's anything wrong with a kid picking a club and following it - but if Everton don't market to them, other clubs will. The stadium is only one aspect of the marketing, but it can be quite a significant one when it comes to sponsorship and corporate hospitality etc One route that MIGHT be interesting to go down, and very unique - would be to somehow make a real play on the age of Goodison, and spend money not so much on modernising it, but making it more of an historic stadium. In a sense, a little like Fulham is 'unusual' and how Highbury had that old feel. That could be a quite clever trick for Everton, playing on the history - wooden seats, tiles etc... BUT actually in decent condition Call it 'retro' Might be a fanciful idea but sound nicer than just one more modern stadium - again, nothing up with them, but they lack a lot of character. But it all comes down to cost - time and again, and it seems other clubs have looked into it umpteen times, and keep coming to the same conclusion - you get more for your money on a brownfield site and knock up a big concrete affair.

Not sure City would want him - new we've got Clichy - but he's definitely as good. It's the other teams who'll come sniffing for him. The thing I like about him is his build... very stocky but appears quick too (not always easy to tell unless he gets a good 50 yard sprint) I think if we GAVE you some money and Tevez, most City fans would be happy now!. Can we borrow Moysey on loan... just to give Calos the love he needs... a warm a embrace and a Glasgow kiss

Poor track record to say the least, BUT he's also been at some seriously struggling clubs too. Everton's far too big for him in my opinion. The be honest, the types of people coming into clubs now are just businessmen, with lots of nice phrases like "back in touch with the fans" and "back where it belongs".... it's just soundbites. They invest money with a view to a return. IF they can manage to do that with fans alongside (cos you'll fork out more money) all the better, but it's profit they want. Not that there's anything wrong with that, and success will help bring about profit (usually) - but when push comes to shove, and it's Everton vs the shareholders - there's only going to be one winner :-( Do you guys actually buy the BK line of 'waiting for the right man'? or is it a smokescreen?

Can't agree about the survival issue.... Everton will survive, even though it's not looking brilliant. As for my lot? humm.. this ride won't last forever... and it's only the fans that'll get left behind. It will end in tears eventually - so I think the concerns are the same really - money making a mess of things across the board. I'm more than happy to stick around - I see it as broadening football horizons!... but then I watch Blackburn and Burnley too when I can... there's more to the football world than just my club! As for the post about Bayern.... Damn right - we were taught another harsh lesson by a great great team (or at least they made themselves look great and made us look like second rate). I thought we'd lose and we did. Too fragile by half. We've much to learn. But hopefully, we can teach a certain Argentinian some lessons too - but I can't see it happening. Don't suppose you fancy a proven striker - 110% work rate - but doesn't do Tuesday night shift for personal reasons? Looks good in blue, makes David Moyes look like a super model, and is no fan of Manchester. Will part-ex for Leighton Baines