How much more can miracle man Moyes' manage...and more!?

[FanchesterCity]

Right...

 

I've got my flak jacket on.

 

 

Everton: Decent teams, 2-3 signings away from being 4th place candidates <--- that's the good bit

 

But how far are you (in terms of players being sold) away from being in deep trouble?

 

I don't for one minute think Everton are in any danger of going down - but with the Premier League as it is, for most teams, they are only ever 2-3 signings (or leavings) away from success or relegation! (in my opinion)

 

Realistically, how many more players could leave before serious concern sets in? - working on the assumption that clubs will only be coming in for the better players in the first place?

 

Moyes is good, clearly, but there's a limit to any managers ability when his hands are totally tied, or worse still, having to lose key players.

 

and... if you could swap 3 players at Everton with 3 other players of equal value (possibly different positions) who would you trade? - trying to keep it realisitic - i.e. Players out of favour or down the pecking order at other clubs... Fellaini for Van der Vaart? Cahill for Santa Cruz? Coleman for Adam Johnson?

[SimonButtle]

Right...

 

I've got my flak jacket on.

 

 

Everton: Decent teams, 2-3 signings away from being 4th place candidates <--- that's the good bit

 

But how far are you (in terms of players being sold) away from being in deep trouble?

 

I don't for one minute think Everton are in any danger of going down - but with the Premier League as it is, for most teams, they are only ever 2-3 signings (or leavings) away from success or relegation! (in my opinion)

 

Realistically, how many more players could leave before serious concern sets in? - working on the assumption that clubs will only be coming in for the better players in the first place?

 

Moyes is good, clearly, but there's a limit to any managers ability when his hands are totally tied, or worse still, having to lose key players.

 

and... if you could swap 3 players at Everton with 3 other players of equal value (possibly different positions) who would you trade? - trying to keep it realisitic - i.e. Players out of favour or down the pecking order at other clubs... Fellaini for Van der Vaart? Cahill for Santa Cruz? Coleman for Adam Johnson?

id love to see that lol, Coleman is a runner and not much else, no end product as of yet, and for Johnson, hell yeah

[FanchesterCity]

id love to see that lol, Coleman is a runner and not much else, no end product as of yet, and for Johnson, hell yeah

 

Well, humm... Johnson was very good in his first season, but little end product recently. Don't want to get into a City convo though.

 

 

Just thinking about Everton being creative - with no money to spend, could they do swap deals and improve that way (unlikely I know) - semi Fantasy Football but semi realistic too.

[Avinalaff]

We have quality in every position on the field under Moyes, but the players aren't necessarily designed for the positions they play.

 

Moyes tends to improvise, and be resourceful, and those are qualities that every manager needs.

 

The main position that we are struggling for at present is having regular strikers. If we were to have strikers that scored regularly, we would be able to challenge for higher places. Until Arteta and Pienaar left, we had one of the best midfields we've had for some time. To lose both is the equivalent of losing Fabregas and Nasri, with the difference being that Arsenal acquired Arteta, where we haven't acquired anybody, at least anybody that we had to buy. It would have been good to have Drenthe while those two midfielders were present, as it would to have had Barkley.

 

Defensive wise we are in need of new blood. Baines is great going forward, but across the back 4 we have Distin, who although playing out of his skin, is getting older, and Jagielka who is a prime target for other clubs. Heitinga is available too, but with Yobo leaving I feel we are short of quality as a squad, especially long term. Right back, Hibbert is a class defender, but Neville is getting old too.

 

Mostly it's down to avoiding injuries with us. If we have a similar situation to that of 2 years ago, we would be in trouble, as other teams are strengthening.

 

We're closer to being able to compete than we are to being relegated, but the squad needs money spending on it, or quality from other sources being found.

 

Add Nani, Tevez, and Silva and we'll win the league.

[FanchesterCity]

We have quality in every position on the field under Moyes, but the players aren't necessarily designed for the positions they play.

 

Moyes tends to improvise, and be resourceful, and those are qualities that every manager needs.

 

The main position that we are struggling for at present is having regular strikers. If we were to have strikers that scored regularly, we would be able to challenge for higher places. Until Arteta and Pienaar left, we had one of the best midfields we've had for some time. To lose both is the equivalent of losing Fabregas and Nasri, with the difference being that Arsenal acquired Arteta, where we haven't acquired anybody, at least anybody that we had to buy. It would have been good to have Drenthe while those two midfielders were present, as it would to have had Barkley.

 

Defensive wise we are in need of new blood. Baines is great going forward, but across the back 4 we have Distin, who although playing out of his skin, is getting older, and Jagielka who is a prime target for other clubs. Heitinga is available too, but with Yobo leaving I feel we are short of quality as a squad, especially long term. Right back, Hibbert is a class defender, but Neville is getting old too.

 

Mostly it's down to avoiding injuries with us. If we have a similar situation to that of 2 years ago, we would be in trouble, as other teams are strengthening.

 

We're closer to being able to compete than we are to being relegated, but the squad needs money spending on it, or quality from other sources being found.

 

Add Nani, Tevez, and Silva and we'll win the league.

 

Ah now, that Arsenal comparison is interesting because I was thinking of them when I thought 'losing just 2-3 players' can have a huge impact.

 

I'm on two minds in your other comments - my git feeling is that it's a bit fanciful to think you're just 3 players away from winning the league, but that said - 3 players can make a massive difference - esp if they are top notch.

 

On balance, I think winning the league with 3 buys is unlikely. But in the top 4? with the right three - definitely. Assuming it all gelled etc etc.

 

From what you've said, you seem to be saying "for the money, you can't better the team" i.e. there's no swap deal you could do that would help - but better use of what you have would make more progress (right positions).

 

So, Moyes is no mug right? He must get plenty of insight from fellow professionals too, and see players day in day out - how can it be that plays players out of their best position as you see it?

 

The problem with the above thinking (on my part) is something I hear a lot from United fans... "who are we to question Fergie?" - and yet, he makes loads of mistakes! Makes me wonder what he could have done had he actually been a decent manager! ;-)

[Avinalaff]

 

Ah now, that Arsenal comparison is interesting because I was thinking of them when I thought 'losing just 2-3 players' can have a huge impact.

 

I'm on two minds in your other comments - my git feeling is that it's a bit fanciful to think you're just 3 players away from winning the league, but that said - 3 players can make a massive difference - esp if they are top notch.

 

On balance, I think winning the league with 3 buys is unlikely. But in the top 4? with the right three - definitely. Assuming it all gelled etc etc.

 

From what you've said, you seem to be saying "for the money, you can't better the team" i.e. there's no swap deal you could do that would help - but better use of what you have would make more progress (right positions).

 

So, Moyes is no mug right? He must get plenty of insight from fellow professionals too, and see players day in day out - how can it be that plays players out of their best position as you see it?

 

The problem with the above thinking (on my part) is something I hear a lot from United fans... "who are we to question Fergie?" - and yet, he makes loads of mistakes! Makes me wonder what he could have done had he actually been a decent manager! ;-)

 

It wasn't long ago that we were only a goal scorer and a winger away from being what I would consider top 4.

 

We had enjoyed possibly the best Centre back pairing in the league at the time with Lescott and Jags, and his leaving saw us get off to an awful start, but come the November we were flying again, after the derby kick starting our season.

 

In January 2010, Moyes attempted to fix the winger problem by signing Landon Donovan on loan, and our football maintained momentum, but still we needed a striker.

 

Had we been able to keep that team together, including Lescott, and found a striker, I think we would have been one of the best sides in the league without a doubt, and we went on to out play all the top sides that year and make a late dash for the line.

 

We have since lost Lescott, Donovan, Pienaar, Arteta, Yakubu which is some loss when all is considered.

[SimonButtle]

 

Well, humm... Johnson was very good in his first season, but little end product recently. Don't want to get into a City convo though.

 

 

Just thinking about Everton being creative - with no money to spend, could they do swap deals and improve that way (unlikely I know) - semi Fantasy Football but semi realistic too.

yeah i see you, and tbh its our only realistic way of getting numbers in at the moment, the worry we have is the constant links to Man U and that players such as Gibson and Diouf come as part of swap deals for the likes of Rodwell and Barkley, and we really dont want to be swaping Ross Barkley for the likes of Darren Gibson imo

[FanchesterCity]

yeah i see you, and tbh its our only realistic way of getting numbers in at the moment, the worry we have is the constant links to Man U and that players such as Gibson and Diouf come as part of swap deals for the likes of Rodwell and Barkley, and we really dont want to be swaping Ross Barkley for the likes of Darren Gibson imo

 

 

No I agree... I think a few clubs will try this... get players on the cheap, AND offload the ones they don't want as part of the deal - for them, a great option, for you - lousy.

 

You don't appear to be a the fire sale stage of things though, just more a case of trying to keep stable with good players going / getting older and bringing in the youngsters / emerging talent.

 

Trouble seems to be that there's now not just 2-3 clubs spending it's 5 or 6 making it harder still for Everton. It seems like in recent years the top 3 has just been left alone by most clubs - the best anyone else could hope for was 4th place, and in reality, clubs actually just wanted to be top 6, and there was still a tangible prize for that (Europe).

 

But that top 6 looks like getting stitched up too now! so what's everybody else aiming for? a cup?

 

I'm over simplifying of course, it does feel a bit that way.

 

I would have liked to have seen SWP at Everton, but it wasn't to be - he was very much loved and wanted but not enough room.

 

It's three seasons ago (I think) when City, Villa and Everton and Spurs were neck and neck - made for a brilliant season, and Avinalaff's right, 'just' short of top 4 (although in truth it was almost a lottery between the 4 of them from what I can remember).

 

Spurs carried on spending and so did City, whilst Villa and Everton seemed to hit a financial brick wall, effectively putting a spanner in the works.

 

 

Still struggling with the notion you have the best squad possible (in the circumstances) though - it's very unlikely! I don't think any club could say that hand on heart.