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Everton In A Right Mess


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#1 nited24

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Posted 14 Aug 2008 - 22:11

How can any true fan be optimistic about the future, from this time last season we have lost stubbs, mcfadden, carsley, fernandes, gravesen, wessel, johnson, and with pienarr out, and cahill, baines, van der meyde, vaughan, hibbet 's injury history, I REALLY FEAR THE WORST.
Surely we should have signed 4 new players last January when we had a gret chance of the champions league, instead of running our then thin squad to the ground.
Leeds here we come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#2 GMorrison183

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Posted 14 Aug 2008 - 22:16

How can any true fan be optimistic about the future, from this time last season we have lost stubbs, mcfadden, carsley, fernandes, gravesen, wessel, johnson, and with pienarr out, and cahill, baines, van der meyde, vaughan, hibbet 's injury history, I REALLY FEAR THE WORST.


God forbid they are gone or injured! They were the key to our .... ? :P
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#3 nited24

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Posted 14 Aug 2008 - 22:32

We keep hearing that Moyes wants to sign only the best names. My point is, untill we somehow become a billionairre club, these names aint going to come and we are going to have to play 16 yr old lads week after week.
1 or 2 injuries on Saturday and we will be up s*** c***k.
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#4 Philinsuffolk

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 07:27

Your concern is understandable and shared.

However, try to relax, it will all be alright.
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#5 Adam

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 07:40

Will post this here to say opening a new thread but thought an interesting read

http://timesonline.t...ter-to-eve.html
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#6 Danny_Evertonian_For_Life

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 13:26

okay okay sure bill kenwright is loyal to the club
sure he doesnt take money out of the club
but he doesnt fuckin put any money in either!!! he's too fuckin poor to be the chairman of a team that wants to play in the champions league! being an englishman who wants to keep the premier league english, as much as it pains me to say it, we need a foreign chairman!!!!
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#7 DangerMouse

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 15:29

^^^^^^^^^Couldnt care less where he's from (except from accross the park) just a nice rich insane sugar daddy will do........

A rich chairman would be a bonus also :blink:

Edited by DangerMouse, 15 Aug 2008 - 15:29.

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#8 Philinsuffolk

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 16:18

Kenwright has said several times over the past couple of years that he isn't rich enough to be able to take us on a level.

Ultimately, buyers are hardly lining up to take over and nor will they be until someone else pays for either a new ground or a redeveloped one.

Football can't be treated completely differently as other businesses around the world - and the money men of the world are not touching us at present.
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#9 StevO

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 17:16

this crap that kenwright doesnt take money out, thats bollocks, he said years ago he wasnt looking to make money, but that man must take some. there were payments two years on the trott for 400k to a production company based in london.

i see your point phil, but if owners only want clubs who have the stadium already, what happened at pompy?

anybody see DMs press conference for the blackburn game?
reporter "david is your current squad strong enough to carry on the progress you've made in the last few years?"
DM "no, no its not"
reporter "you've done well with a small squad before, like finishing fourth, can this be to your benefit?"
DM "not with a squad this small, no"

Edited by StevO, 15 Aug 2008 - 17:19.

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#10 nited24

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 21:13

Kenwright has said he aint got enough money to compete with the BIG 4, yet there are 3 billionairres investing in the club, GREEN, LOWE, and the supremo whose name i cant recall.

How can we be struggling with money?

For a premiership club that has a very respected name and done resonably well in the past few years, there is surely something amiss here?

If we aint got the money to compete, why on earth are we trying to sign players who want big money and the champions league, whilst depleting our already tiny squad, is beyond me. How many could we afford? 2, 3 or 4 maybe? At say, 15 million each, come on!!!! We need at least 6 players if were to play 50 games a season,

Even if we did manage to sign top players, they want big money and we wont challenge for a few seasons, Meaning more debt

Not to mention the countless cost of proving the validity of the new stadium plans

In my opinion, Kenwright although he loves the club, ought to go now. AND PUT THE CLUB UP FOR SALE
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#11 johnno

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 21:51

Kenwright has said he aint got enough money to compete with the BIG 4, yet there are 3 billionairres investing in the club, GREEN, LOWE, and the supremo whose name i cant recall.

How can we be struggling with money?

For a premiership club that has a very respected name and done resonably well in the past few years, there is surely something amiss here?

If we aint got the money to compete, why on earth are we trying to sign players who want big money and the champions league, whilst depleting our already tiny squad, is beyond me. How many could we afford? 2, 3 or 4 maybe? At say, 15 million each, come on!!!! We need at least 6 players if were to play 50 games a season,

Even if we did manage to sign top players, they want big money and we wont challenge for a few seasons, Meaning more debt

Not to mention the countless cost of proving the validity of the new stadium plans

In my opinion, Kenwright although he loves the club, ought to go now. AND PUT THE CLUB UP FOR SALE

Boring. Have you not been reading the papers the past few weeks? Kenwright has been looking for an investor to buy the club from him for 4 years since he bought his majority. Nobody is interested...yet.

Kenwright, woods and earl hold the majority of the club's shares and Sir Philip Green has absolutely nothing to do with the club except that he is Kenwright's mate, and lent him some money to buy the club off Peter Johnson....he does not own any shares and many times has publicly stated he has no interest in owning or financing a football club. Earl doesnt give a hoot about spending his hard-earned money on Everton but he's a damn sight better option than Gregg (or so we're led to believe ;-)). Also, can anybody tell me what exactly Jon Woods does?

By the way...Do some research before you make a silly, childish rant like that.
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#12 Jimmy the blue

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 22:45

Boring. Have you not been reading the papers the past few weeks? Kenwright has been looking for an investor to buy the club from him for 4 years since he bought his majority. Nobody is interested...yet.

Kenwright, woods and earl hold the majority of the club's shares and Sir Philip Green has absolutely nothing to do with the club except that he is Kenwright's mate, and lent him some money to buy the club off Peter Johnson....he does not own any shares and many times has publicly stated he has no interest in owning or financing a football club. Earl doesnt give a hoot about spending his hard-earned money on Everton but he's a damn sight better option than Gregg (or so we're led to believe ;-)). Also, can anybody tell me what exactly Jon Woods does?

By the way...Do some research before you make a silly, childish rant like that.


Well said lad but nited is just like many other blues who can only speculate at what has gone on.

You are slightly in error as Green is a major creditor of EFC and if some rumours are to be believed he has called in his loans to the club. At present he is part of the consortium backing David Levy at Spurs. Isn't it odd how they have splashed the cash this summer when we have had nothing. In my humble opinion what ever has gone on is kept secret between very few people and is sufficient important to rish the future of our club. Like you said Earl is a better option than Gregg but I hope that we stay under British control rather some foreign crook take control with his/her ill begotten gains, looks down the M62 at Newlands
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#13 johnno

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 22:55

Indeed, maybe I should do some research before I make a silly, childish rant like that ;-)
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#14 StevO

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 23:02

id have liked to see how Gregg would have done if he wasnt forced out of the club with BKs horrible misleading of the fans with Fortress Sports Fund.

BK has always said he will sell the club, but there have been people enquired about the club to not get a response from BK, one name to mention was a group of bluenose friends led by David McLean (of McLean Homes) who registered interest with BKs secretary on three occasions not to get a reply or even a phone call from BK. i have mentioned this before here but people tend not to believe me. BK wants investors, not buyers, he wants people who will let him carry on being the figure head he so much likes to be.

he may have been in charge while Moyes turned the club around, but to me, i will see him as no better then Peter Johnson, BK has over seen the sale of all the clubs assets and put us in the worst financial situation the club has ever been in. Johnson wasnt perfrect, but he had vision and the money to back it up. BK has hired a manager and got lucky, Johnson hired managers and had less luck.

i'll probably get shot down for this by people who see PJ as the devil and BK as some sort of saint.
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#15 Jimmy the blue

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 23:12

id have liked to see how Gregg would have done if he wasnt forced out of the club with BKs horrible misleading of the fans with Fortress Sports Fund.

BK has always said he will sell the club, but there have been people enquired about the club to not get a response from BK, one name to mention was a group of bluenose friends led by David McLean (of McLean Homes) who registered interest with BKs secretary on three occasions not to get a reply or even a phone call from BK. i have mentioned this before here but people tend not to believe me. BK wants investors, not buyers, he wants people who will let him carry on being the figure head he so much likes to be.

he may have been in charge while Moyes turned the club around, but to me, i will see him as no better then Peter Johnson, BK has over seen the sale of all the clubs assets and put us in the worst financial situation the club has ever been in. Johnson wasnt perfrect, but he had vision and the money to back it up. BK has hired a manager and got lucky, Johnson hired managers and had less luck.

i'll probably get shot down for this by people who see PJ as the devil and BK as some sort of saint.


and I bet you think the Kill Everton in our city crowd are innocents in all of this as well. EFC is not an attractive propostition for any buyer especially if we stay at Goodison, simple fact
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#16 StevO

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 23:16

the simple fact is also kirkby would have had us paying a mortgage on the new stadium that we didnt own, whilst also paying the motgage on Goodison which we wouldnt have owned anymore, we would have had a slowly decreasing fan base in the long term, a stadium in which the fans would struggle to access whilst no one wanted to invest in the park and ride system, no one wanted to invest in the increase of public transport into kirkby (trains the major one) the town was to be a no park area, i can keep going. or if you like, maybe just read into the facts of the planning proposal on the KBC website and its all there in black and white. i assume your a BK supporter, but please andswer me this, what has BK done for EFC? im not talking about what Moyes has done, we know what Moyes has done, what has BK done?

and your simple fact, that we are not prospective in GP, why did Gaydemark invest all that money into pompy when fratton park is in a hell of a worse state than GP.

and what exactly are KEIOC guilty of?
if that vote was brought out with the facts on the table as they are now, they wouldnt even come close

Edited by StevO, 15 Aug 2008 - 23:19.

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#17 johnno

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 23:21

i'll probably get shot down for this by people who see PJ as the devil and BK as some sort of saint.

It's cos he's a red shite

Edited by johnno, 15 Aug 2008 - 23:23.

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#18 StevO

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 23:23

who is a red shite?
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#19 Jimmy the blue

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 23:25

Fratton Park is being sold, fact

You tell me what mega rich individual would want to buy a club with a ramshackled stadium, in the same city as one of Europes premier teams and a bunch of supporters determined that no move is made, that is a reciepe for disaster. I rather have paid three mortgages than have that happen. We are not a viable proposition for any investor unless we can get a new stadium, as Moyes said in his interview.

As for a dwindling fan base, I was in Goodison in the glory days of 70,000 plus, given the stadium we should be able to fill a 60,000 seater, with a successful team
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#20 Jimmy the blue

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 23:26

who is a red shite?


Peter Johnson, like his father before him
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#21 StevO

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 23:28

everton have never had an average of 70k plus, fact.
if you have any knowledge of money you would know it is not good business sense to pay for something you do not own, double it and your just askin for trouble.

fratton park is being sold, after the new owner put a lot of money into solent stadium, fact.

the supporters do want a move, but not just any old half arsed idea they come up with, they want the best option available to the club when all routes have been looked at. im dissappointed in any evertonian who does not expact the best for this club, and the kirkby move was not the best

Peter Johnson, like his father before him


Peter Johnson was a Tranmere fan

Edited by StevO, 15 Aug 2008 - 23:30.

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#22 johnno

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 23:40

Informative article about Johnson: http://www.toffeeweb...men/Johnson.asp

some good bits but LOTS of bad bits.

Compared to Kenwright.......
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#23 johnno

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 23:43

Peter Johnson was a Tranmere fan

Liverpool Season ticket holder
Liverpool Shareholder

Yes he did own Tranmere (still does?) but he is a gobshite, no question.
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#24 StevO

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Posted 15 Aug 2008 - 23:57

if you read through that whole toffeeweb article, pretty much all the bullet pointed issues are ones we have now with BK, especially the stadium ones. people seem to forget the mess the club was in when johnson bought it compared to the mess when he sold it.
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#25 Jimmy the blue

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Posted 16 Aug 2008 - 00:29

everton have never had an average of 70k plus, fact.
if you have any knowledge of money you would know it is not good business sense to pay for something you do not own, double it and your just askin for trouble.

fratton park is being sold, after the new owner put a lot of money into solent stadium, fact.

the supporters do want a move, but not just any old half arsed idea they come up with, they want the best option available to the club when all routes have been looked at. im dissappointed in any evertonian who does not expact the best for this club, and the kirkby move was not the best



Peter Johnson was a Tranmere fan


Please tell me where I said we had an average of 70,000 plus gates, we didn't but we did have gates of over 70,000 a most definite fact

I knew Peter's dad he was a rs born and bred, a most definite fact, incidentally he hates mushrooms.

I have been trained in accountancy so yes I do know what I'm talking about. I have no wish to fall out with anyone round here but I resent being told that as a life long blue of 50 years plus that I don't want the best for my club. The bulk of KEIOC want to stay at Goodison, the remainder want to design any new ground, its called the tail wagging the dog effect. Now please tell me anyone who wants to buy EFC at present under these circumstances?

Edited by Jimmy the blue, 16 Aug 2008 - 00:31.

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#26 StevO

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Posted 16 Aug 2008 - 01:00

i too have no wish to fall out with anybody, ive been around here long enough to know we can all have healthy debate without getting personal or falling out.

KEIOC are not for staying at Goodison necessarily, thats GFE, keioc are for getting the truth out of the club, which we did not get the first time around. surely you can see jim that the club lied to us about the kirkby development? you must have seen the lies about the figures quoted? the lies about transport? and you cant be happy with the club lying to you?
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#27 Mikels Left Tezzer

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Posted 16 Aug 2008 - 01:17

Fratton Park is being sold, fact

You tell me what mega rich individual would want to buy a club with a ramshackled stadium, in the same city as one of Europes premier teams and a bunch of supporters determined that no move is made, that is a reciepe for disaster. I rather have paid three mortgages than have that happen. We are not a viable proposition for any investor unless we can get a new stadium, as Moyes said in his interview.

As for a dwindling fan base, I was in Goodison in the glory days of 70,000 plus, given the stadium we should be able to fill a 60,000 seater, with a successful team


Now don't anyone think I'm with KEIOC, I think for myself. Matey you should know better if you have been with Everton in the days of 70,000! Kirkby for our Everton? Not a chance, it was a bog standard stadia, nothing like Kings Dock would have been, as for leaving Liverpool not a chance on this earth. I love Everton, I love our history, I would be sick to the stomach to leave Liverpool, the very thought fills me with dread. Yes I would class Kirkby as scousers but we can not leave this city full stop. I would rather buy Anfield first. We are not going to fall down without Kirkby, we will always be playing at the highest level. I'm all for moving but outside the city? No!!!!

If Kenwright can't afford to move us then he should go, and I believe the stingy bastard will be gone soon. If he loves Everton as much as we all do, he should sell to someone who can drive us forward.

Things would have been different if he had sorted the Kings Dock fiasco out, that would have been up their with the San Siro, Old Trafford, and the likes. I bet we would be up there with the best. How many more chances does Bill get?

Kirkby was desperate measures, I don't want a half arse attempt. Save the Stadia money, buy top players and win some trophies, get things right on the pitch and then we will move.
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#28 nited24

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Posted 17 Aug 2008 - 20:45

Opened a can of worms or what

Regardless to what you believe, let me assure you you there are some mega rich individuals investing with our club, the tesco supremo and Green being a couple, i never metioned anything regarding share holders

FOR EVERTON TO BE AS STRONG AS THE BIG 4, KENWRIGHT HAS SIMPLY GOT TO PUBLICALLY ANNOUNCE THAT HE WISHES TO SELL EVERTON FC AND HOPE SOME CRAZY MEGA RICH OIL TYCOON BUYS US RATHER THAN KEEP BORROWING MILLIONS, ESPECIALLY DURING THIS CURRENT FINANCIAL SPELL WHEN RETURN RATES ARE ONLY GOING TO GO UP
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#29 StevO

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Posted 17 Aug 2008 - 22:55

Opened a can of worms or what

Regardless to what you believe, let me assure you you there are some mega rich individuals investing with our club, the tesco supremo and Green being a couple, i never metioned anything regarding share holders


they are not investing, terry leahey has not given efc a penny and green came up with the cash to lend bk to buy the club. he has no interest, but he is known to have invested in spurs.

i do believe there are rich individuals and groups who have wanted to buy the club, not invest, buy the club with bk gone, but that was before the great everton property sale of 2007, whether they still want to, i dont know that.

Edited by StevO, 17 Aug 2008 - 22:56.

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#30 nited24

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Posted 18 Aug 2008 - 06:54

They hav'nt given a penny youre right, other than when mr kenwright asked to lend millions from them, thats entirely my point!

However, if you are under the illusion they have no say in the finances then you are hugely mistaken, do you honestly believe that they are willing to lend large sums of cash without any guarantees on returns?

Now mr kenwright is seeking 'new investments', er i mean more pals to borrow money from.

THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO KEEP BORROWING
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#31 StevO

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Posted 18 Aug 2008 - 09:39

green has a say in the running of the club due to his money lending to bk, but he has not invested in efc, he invested in bk, about 6 years ago.
and tesco have not given us a penny and they never will (none of their money in kirkby was directly to efc)
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#32 nited24

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Posted 18 Aug 2008 - 09:56

But it is an investment, lets say kenwright borrowed 1 million from green, and green expexts 1.2m in return. he is guaranteed the extra 200k back.

kenwright has done this time and time again and is now seeking further loans for both moyes and the stadium/tesco fiasco.

he should sell now before we to deep in the shite
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