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#41 SteeleRED

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Posted 13 Sep 2006 - 17:29

Werent we in the top 4 at the start of the season a coupler of seasons, and we finished 4th?  <_<

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Hmmm... this century you've finished 16th, 15th, 7th, 17th, 4th, 11th. I see a pattern, and the "fluke" finish seems to be the 4th. I stand by my original assessment.

Edited by SteeleRED, 13 Sep 2006 - 17:29.

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#42 CraccerC

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Posted 13 Sep 2006 - 17:40

you can't fluke a whole season...its much easier to fluke a european cup *coughs*

Edited by CraccerC, 13 Sep 2006 - 17:40.

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#43 Romey 1878

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Posted 13 Sep 2006 - 17:56

Hmmm... this century you've finished 16th, 15th, 7th, 17th, 4th, 11th. I see a pattern, and the "fluke" finish seems to be the 4th. I stand by my original assessment.

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Gobshites arent half boring to talk to *yawns*

The whole point of my post was to point out that not all teams fall away after a good start, not to start a debate on how we have faired in the league this century. BTW have you not missed out a season?


You're a typical gobshite, you live on the other side of the world and think you it all.

Edited by Romey 1878, 13 Sep 2006 - 17:56.

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#44 Mac

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Posted 13 Sep 2006 - 18:20

I have to agree with Red here, he/she made a couple of valid points which are inescapable.

However, our 4th place finish can never be described as a fluke, out of character possibly, but not a fluke.

ATB

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#45 SteeleRED

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Posted 13 Sep 2006 - 20:49

I have to agree with Red here, he/she made a couple of valid points which are inescapable.

However, our 4th place finish can never be described as a fluke, out of character possibly, but not a fluke.

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OK, out of character sounds more like it. I'll accept that assessment.
MY point wasn't to suggest that you WILL falter, only that 4 games in is WAY too soon to be boasting about your performance overall. So I brought up the Charlton comparison. Could have brought up LFC's (late September, we were 11th, and finished 3rd, one point out of 2nd).
As for flukes: in that one game, OK, can't take that away. No "fluke" there, either (though some, not me, might see it that way. Same as our FIFTH European championship was no fluke, referenced here earlier). You deserved the win. But will you keep it up? Only time will tell.
Actually, kind of hoping you do. What makes a rivalry meaningful is when both teams are playing well (in this context, contending for European spots). Makes it that much more satisfying when we do win. This one will always be special, but meaningful as well? Not in recent years. But your side may be onto something good. Andy Johnson, Tim Cahill, Mikel Arteta, Leon Osman, David Weir, Phil Neville? Top shelf talent, all. And if Lescott continues to develop, Yobo ever finds some consistency and Tim Howard ever regains his lost form, you will be trouble for sure. FWIW: young Mr. Anichebe, the little I've seen of him, is going to be quite a talent, too, as he matures and gets consistent first-team minutes.
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#46 thebluenose

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Posted 13 Sep 2006 - 20:54

wow a red who is fair towards the blues.

you better keep it up
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#47 SteeleRED

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Posted 13 Sep 2006 - 20:59

wow a red who is fair towards the blues.

you better keep it up

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Yeah, but not a "lifelong" Red, and since the only two Everton fans I know here in the States (and one overseas, in Scotland) are all actually quite decent, likeable folks, I haven't "lived" the animosity of a lifetime in Liverpool to actually have that same ferocity of hatred that doesn't allow for any objective assessment of Everton.

I DO possess that level of animosity towards a few American sports teams, but not to the level that I can't be objective about their talents. And your team has talent. Anyone who would suggest otherwise is only kidding themselves (or assesses all talented teams through a Chelsea/Barcelona mindset, which is largely unrealistic, given the talent and resources they have in their respective leagues that no one else does).
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#48 SteeleRED

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Posted 13 Sep 2006 - 21:02

Gobshites arent half boring to talk to *yawns*

The whole point of my post was to point out that not all teams fall away after a good start, not to start a debate on how we have faired in the league this century. BTW have you not missed out a season?
You're a typical gobshite, you live on the other side of the world and think you it all.

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Oh and FWIW: you may think I'm a gobshite (opinion), but let's clear up one thing: I sure as hell don't know it all. I'm the first one to admit that, especially when it comes to English football.

Edited by SteeleRED, 13 Sep 2006 - 21:03.

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#49 Ola

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Posted 13 Sep 2006 - 21:17

Oh and FWIW: you may think I'm a gobshite (opinion), but let's clear up one thing: I sure as hell don't know it all. I'm the first one to admit that, especially when it comes to English football.

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:blink: calm down der lad :lol: :lol: ;)
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#50 Pat

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Posted 13 Sep 2006 - 22:06

Youll Be a Blue in No time.

To Humble to follow that other rabble...!!!
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#51 Pat

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Posted 13 Sep 2006 - 22:08

Dont you write for News Ltd?
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#52 SteeleRED

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Posted 13 Sep 2006 - 22:10

:blink: calm down der lad :lol:   :lol:   ;)

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Don't worry. My reply was meant to be humorous: an American born-and-bred and raised on American sports shouldn't ever be mistaken for an English football fan, no matter how much I may know about "the beautiful game". And having played/coached the game, I do know some.

If I come across as a "smart aleck" (or gobshite, take your pick) sometimes, it's just that I can't help it! :D
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#53 Pat

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Posted 13 Sep 2006 - 23:08

You should be Redington Steele, tis a bit more daper
( Brosnan) than steelered.

( Prob go over the youngun's heads that).
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#54 Danish_Reg

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 07:32

well steelered is at least being honest here.

those are fair enough statements.
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#55 Ola

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 09:54

Don't worry. My reply was meant to be humorous: an American born-and-bred and raised on American sports shouldn't ever be mistaken for an English football fan, no matter how much I may know about "the beautiful game". And having played/coached the game, I do know some.

If I come across as a "smart aleck" (or gobshite, take your pick) sometimes, it's just that I can't help it!  :D

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:D say what you feel mate theirs no shame in that ;)
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#56 java2001e

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 10:51

"MY point wasn't to suggest that you WILL falter, only that 4 games in is WAY too soon to be boasting about your performance overall."

not so sure about that. things are so tight in the premiership these days that you can't afford to drop too many points. you certainly can't afford to fall too far behind the leaders.

they say the league can't be won in september, but it can be lost!

for example arsenal are already ten points behind manu!

even for a team with all their talent, thats a serious deficit. manu arent n the habit of throwing away ten point leads to anyone, anytime.

this season could be a turning point. it seems to me that clubs are no longer intimidated by chelsea or manu or any of the usual suspects.

we could be witnessing the start of a changing of the guard.

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#57 Ola

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 11:03

"MY point wasn't to suggest that you WILL falter, only that 4 games in is WAY too soon to be boasting about your performance overall."

not so sure about that. things are so tight in the premiership these days that you can't afford to drop too many points. you certainly can't afford to fall too far behind the leaders.

they say the league can't be won in september, but it can be lost!

for example arsenal are already ten points behind manu!

even for a team with all their talent, thats a serious deficit. manu arent n the habit of throwing away ten point leads to anyone, anytime.

this season could be a turning point. it seems to me that clubs are no longer intimidated by chelsea or manu or any of the usual suspects.

we could be witnessing the start of a changing of the guard.

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:D think thats a good thing need more teams to be challanging, makes for a better season for supporters look at us :D ;)
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#58 Zed

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 11:17

I think it is a bit too early to be getting carried away with our selves, the wheels can fall off at any time, especially with our small squad, but confidence breads confidence. If we continue in this vain then teams will be looking at Everton before they play them and thinking "OH SHIT THESE ARE GOOD", where if we were on a loosing run teams would be thinking they could tuen us over, as they did at the begining of last season.

So, there is a lot of hard work to be done in keeping us where we are, and as I've already said,

"I WONT BE GETTING CARRIED AWAY UNTIL WE TEST OURSELVES AGAINST THE BETTER TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE, LIKE CHELSEA OR MANURE"

For the moment im happy to be undefeated in the league glancing over our shoulders at all the teams below us. Wondering what will happen if we beat wigan and Chelsea win this weekend
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#59 Ola

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 12:43

I think it is a bit too early to be getting carried away with our selves, the wheels can fall off at any time, especially with our small squad, but confidence breads confidence. If we continue in this vain then teams will be looking at Everton before they play them and thinking "OH SHIT THESE ARE GOOD", where if we were on a loosing run teams would be thinking they could tuen us over, as they did at the begining of last season.

So, there is a lot of hard work to be done in keeping us where we are, and as I've already said,

"I WONT BE GETTING CARRIED AWAY UNTIL WE TEST OURSELVES AGAINST THE BETTER TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE, LIKE CHELSEA OR MANURE"

For the moment im happy to be undefeated in the league glancing over our shoulders at all the teams below us. Wondering what will happen if we beat wigan and Chelsea win this weekend

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:D sweet dreams them zed ;) lets hope they come true ;)
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#60 SteeleRED

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 13:00

not so sure about that. things are so tight in the premiership these days that you can't afford to drop too many points. you certainly can't afford to fall too far behind the leaders.

they say the league can't be won in september, but it can be lost!

for example arsenal are already ten points behind manu!

even for a team with all their talent, thats a serious deficit. manu arent n the habit of throwing away ten point leads to anyone, anytime.

this season could be a turning point. it seems to me that clubs are no longer intimidated by chelsea or manu or any of the usual suspects.

we could be witnessing the start of a changing of the guard.[/b][/color]

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The first point you raised relates directly to the 2nd. The reason, I think, that teams seemed "inevitble" champions in September is that clubs were intimidated by the usual suspects. But if that air of invincibility truly no longer exists, then the "usual suspects" are going to find away fixtures more and more difficult to come away from having secured 3 points. Thus, deficits in the standings like the one Arsenal (or for that matter Blackburn) currently face should no longer be as difficult to make up as in the past.

That said, I think it's too early to tell if that "changing of the guard" has taken place. I hope you're right: it's makes for more entertaining football overall, and that's always a good thing. But the surprise early season starts of Pompey, Villa and yourselves are reason to hope.

Of course, as a Reds fan, I would hope that the "changing of the guard" would by-pass our team! :D
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#61 SteeleRED

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 13:11

You should be Redington Steele, tis a bit more daper
( Brosnan) than steelered.

( Prob go over the youngun's heads that).

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:lol:
1) Not such a youngun here. If I can remember watching the original broadcast episodes of "Remington Steele" here in the States in the 1980s, that qualifies me as anything but a "youngun".

2) Dapper? About the furthest thing from dapper, am I. In my dreams, perhaps, and certainly to my wife of 23 years, but that's about it. ;)
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#62 SteeleRED

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 13:32

21 shots - but how many on target.

ANyone can shoot from outside the box - anyone can shoot wide. ANyone can pass a ball to their own defence. Any one can pass through and around their defence. the stats mean nothing when you have been beaten...er...destroyed...

Jeez - go to any sunday league game -anywhere in the world (even India) and you will see 100 shots a game from as far out as the half way line - but they dont go in and therefore dont reflect ANYTHING from the game...

RS fans - time to take it on the chin...you got done by the better team on the day. its as simple ans easy to understand as that. - it really is!

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Watched the game twice here in the States, courtesy of Gol TV and Liverpoolfc.tv overseas broadcast. Wonder if you saw the same match I did? How many of our shots were way off target? The commentators for the match pointed out several times the multiple near-misses: from Garcia, Crouch, Gerrard a couple of times as well as a few crosses that were agonizingly inches from reach and a sure-fire goal.

I have two matches in mind from last season that show that "the score doesn't always reflect the closeness of the game": LFC 5, Fulham 1 (15/03/06) and LFC 1, Sunderland 0 (20/08/05). The latter match was a more tightly contested match, with Fulham pressuring LFC all over the pitch. They conceded 3 in the last 20 minutes to make a close match seem like an arse-kicking. In the other afore-mentioned match, even though LFC only managed one goal in that game, at no point did Sunderland appear to have the capability of breaking through to get a shot on goal, let alone score. IIRC, LFC outshot Sunderland 20-2 in that one.

You beat us, but not until the closing moments did I think you would prevail by two goals. And then Pepe made that Sunday-league play on the ball to gift you goal #3 (acutally, didn't Carragher make a similar play to free Andy Johnson for goal #2)? We lost, I know, but only in your dreams did you "crush/embarass/annihilate/ slaughter/pick your adjective" us.
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#63 MikeO

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 14:04

So (for example) Andy Murray plays Andy Roddick in a tennis match...Roddick plays his arse off and fights tooth and nail for every point, gets game point after game point but just can't win the big ones...always misses when it matters so loses the game 6-1 6-2 6-1. Does he feel crushed, slaughtered and stuffed or does he make excuses and say he was unlucky?

In ten years time people will look in the record books and say it was a stuffing. Goals are the only measure of a game ultimately...nothing else counts. We annihilated you, accept it.
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#64 Romey 1878

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 14:26

Roddick would say that was an embarrassement Mike.

Redsteele - you had 21 shots and I think only 4 were on target. What does that tell you? That Liverpool's players had their (accurate) shooting boots on? Even if they miss by a whisker, they still miss and dont test the goalkeeper.

Edited by Romey 1878, 14 Sep 2006 - 14:27.

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#65 thebluenose

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 15:15

Roddick would say that was an embarrassement Mike.

Redsteele - you had 21 shots and I think only 4 were on target. What does that tell you? That Liverpool's players had their (accurate) shooting boots on? Even if they miss by a whisker, they still miss and dont test the goalkeeper.

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hit the nail on the head as the saying goes
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#66 SteeleRED

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 15:49

Occasionally, I get carried away! :rolleyes:

In this, I will say: whether you won 1-0, or 7-0, you still only get one W for it. No more, no less. Ultimately, that is the only thing that matters. You came away with 3 points, we came up empty. No bonus points for the arse kicking you gave us.

If you're looking for more meaning in your win than that, then you're getting carried away. Far too often have seen my teams (American football, baseball, basketball, hockey, and football) come away with an impressive win, then go out and get their arses kicked the next time out. And vice versa.

Lost no sleep over 3-0. In fact, 1-0 would've been more agonizing: woulda, coulda, shoulda would've raced around in my head all day and the next. None of that here.

Don't worry about us. We'll be fine. And I predict by season's end, it'll be you looking up at us. Again. ;)

Edited by SteeleRED, 14 Sep 2006 - 15:50.

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#67 thebluenose

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 16:06

we have a better squad now than we did then our overall squad is younger faster more creative and of course were winning by much bigger scorelines.

then we were gettin numerous 1-0 victories and now were winning by 2-0 and 3-0.

if we can keep it up for the season i reckon we will be ahead of you
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#68 MikeO

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 16:08

Don't worry about us. We'll be fine. And I predict by season's end, it'll be you looking up at us. Again.  ;)

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That's a possibility my friend, but on the basis of the season so far (which is all we have to go on), it's not a probability. A lot will depend on us staying relatively injury free, as we did in 04/05, and how we perform in the next five odd games which on paper are not too challenging. Another ten odd points and we'll be roughly where we were in 2004 but with, in my opinion, a team superior in almost every department. We have no weak links (maybe left side debatable), a brilliant team ethic and the (forget Henry) best striker in the country on current form. I'm so excited I could spontaneously combust at any moment :D .

Er...and I promise not to worry about you :P .

Edited by mikeo, 14 Sep 2006 - 16:09.

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#69 Ola

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 16:09

we have a better squad now than we did then our overall squad is younger faster more creative and of course were winning by much bigger scorelines.

then we were gettin numerous 1-0 victories and now were winning by 2-0 and 3-0.

if we can keep it up for the season i reckon we will be ahead of you

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:D deffo like the sound of that matey ;)
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#70 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 16:15

The funny thing for me is above or below Liverpoo it doesnt realy matter we are improving and growing as a club, a team and our manager looks like he is learning too.

As for the shite the spend all that cash an look the same if not worse than last season and all the heart / passion seems to be draining out the team with only stevie laaaa looking like he's actually proud to pull on the shirt. I bet deep down he wishes he was STILL waring the blue shirt when he looks at the pride and passion in our club (a club by the way which doesnt need to win silvewear to keep its fans and players interested)!
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#71 Ola

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 16:23

The funny thing for me is above or below Liverpoo it doesnt realy matter we are improving and growing as a club, a team and our manager looks like he is learning too.

As for the shite the spend all that cash an look the same if not worse than last season and all the heart / passion seems to be draining out the team with only stevie laaaa looking like he's actually proud to pull on the shirt. I bet deep down he wishes he was STILL waring the blue shirt when he looks at the pride and passion in our club (a club by the way which doesnt need to win silvewear to keep its fans and players interested)!

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:D you have a very valid point there fish and i agree :D
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#72 Zed

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 19:30

Occasionally, I get carried away!  :rolleyes:

In this, I will say: whether you won 1-0, or 7-0, you still only get one W for it. No more, no less. Ultimately, that is the only thing that matters. You came away with 3 points, we came up empty. No bonus points for the arse kicking you gave us.

If you're looking for more meaning in your win than that, then you're getting carried away. Far too often have seen my teams (American football, baseball, basketball, hockey, and football) come away with an impressive win, then go out and get their arses kicked the next time out. And vice versa.

Lost no sleep over 3-0. In fact, 1-0 would've been more agonizing: woulda, coulda, shoulda would've raced around in my head all day and the next. None of that here.

Don't worry about us. We'll be fine. And I predict by season's end, it'll be you looking up at us. Again.  ;)

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I really see now that you do not see the point of winning a derby and that it does mean more than just 3 points, but then again I wouldnt expect a person with about as much affinity with liverpool as I have with real madrid to understand it.

Your posts are very articulate and well thought out, but one thing they lack is

PASSION

You talk the talk and I walk the walk. Supporting your team with passion is more than spouting statistics and poor mans poetry. And contradictions

Just another glory hunting hanger on, relentlessly trying to convert the unconverted.

Edited by Zed, 14 Sep 2006 - 19:32.

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#73 Romey 1878

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 19:32

*applause for Zed* Well said mate, spot on.
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#74 Ian

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Posted 14 Sep 2006 - 19:42

I was about to say, you dont actually seem to grasp to concept of the Derby itself, when you have your closest friends harping on for months on end with ' best team in blah blah' etc. then the derby (like always) brings other meanings, at the end of the day, we wasted you, 3-0 thats how it shows on paper, you can have twenty shots, we could have had 3 on target, thats shows how clinical we where.

I have and will love Everton til my dieing days, regardless of tropies and like fish said, I'm sure Stevie Glaaaa and any other player that comes to the Old Lady can see the passion the fans have got and the love that they will always have for the club that they will always stick by til then end of their days.

ONCE A BLUE, ALWAYS A BLUE
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#75 Danish_Reg

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Posted 15 Sep 2006 - 13:38

The funny thing for me is above or below Liverpoo it doesnt realy matter we are improving and growing as a club, a team and our manager looks like he is learning too.

As for the shite the spend all that cash an look the same if not worse than last season and all the heart / passion seems to be draining out the team with only stevie laaaa looking like he's actually proud to pull on the shirt. I bet deep down he wishes he was STILL waring the blue shirt when he looks at the pride and passion in our club (a club by the way which doesnt need to win silvewear to keep its fans and players interested)!

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which blue shirt are you referring to? us or chevs?
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#76 StevO

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Posted 15 Sep 2006 - 15:07

That's a possibility my friend, but on the basis of the season so far (which is all we have to go on), it's not a probability. A lot will depend on us staying relatively injury free, as we did in 04/05, and how we perform in the next five odd games which on paper are not too challenging. Another ten odd points and we'll be roughly where we were in 2004 but with, in my opinion, a team superior in almost every department. We have no weak links (maybe left side debatable), a brilliant team ethic and the (forget Henry) best striker in the country on current form. I'm so excited I could spontaneously combust at any moment :D .

Er...and I promise not to worry about you :P .

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not just the best striker, on current "stats" hes the best player in the whole league

im bored of this yank who has no affiliation with this club he "supports", talking shit about somethin he knows nothing about. you can look all over the internet, in every library in the whole of the state and you will still never know what wining a derby means
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#77 xavier

xavier

    Mick Lyons

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Posted 15 Sep 2006 - 15:29

Heard a few comments like this and its definatly not the way i saw it from inside Goodison, infact my pissed up mumblings for the rest of the day generally included the line "not only 3-0 but off the fuckin park!"

You lot cant take defeat with your head held high can you.

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Eh? I said that the better team won did I not.

My point was that it was never a 'Battering', an opinion which i still hold firm.
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#78 java2001e

java2001e

    Duncan Ferguson

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Posted 16 Sep 2006 - 00:35

"The commentators for the match pointed out several times the multiple near-misses: from Garcia, Crouch, Gerrard a couple of times as well as a few crosses that were agonizingly inches from reach and a sure-fire goal."

we dont count near misses in soccer. they have to actually hit the back of the net!

the fact is, apart from a couple of tough periods, we neve looked like losing and liverpoo never looked like winning.

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#79 Zed

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    Dave Hickson

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Posted 16 Sep 2006 - 07:11

"The commentators for the match pointed out several times the multiple near-misses: from Garcia, Crouch, Gerrard a couple of times as well as a few crosses that were agonizingly inches from reach and a sure-fire goal."

we dont count near misses in soccer. they have to actually hit the back of the net!

the fact is, apart from a couple of tough periods, we neve looked like losing and liverpoo never looked like winning.

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FACT
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#80 Jay

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    Daniel Amokachi

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Posted 18 Sep 2006 - 13:08

Occasionally, I get carried away!  :rolleyes:

In this, I will say: whether you won 1-0, or 7-0, you still only get one W for it. No more, no less. Ultimately, that is the only thing that matters. You came away with 3 points, we came up empty. No bonus points for the arse kicking you gave us.

If you're looking for more meaning in your win than that, then you're getting carried away. Far too often have seen my teams (American football, baseball, basketball, hockey, and football) come away with an impressive win, then go out and get their arses kicked the next time out. And vice versa.

Lost no sleep over 3-0. In fact, 1-0 would've been more agonizing: woulda, coulda, shoulda would've raced around in my head all day and the next. None of that here.

Don't worry about us. We'll be fine. And I predict by season's end, it'll be you looking up at us. Again.  ;)

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What a shame we didn't get stuffed at the weekend but you bloody did!! Face it your SHITE!! lol
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