Oztoffee

they have to sell to buy because they weren't froogle

Froogle? Is that a euphemism?

What happened to him? Didn't travel to Dresden.....thought he might feature as we badly needed forwards.

Bugger!

I rarely visit the official site but today at 2am UK time I checked it out hoping for some news on the managerial front. Don't know how long this has been up but a ad for 2016/17 Season Tickets says

'Nothing will be the same'. Can this be true? Apart from a new manager what do we need for this to happen?

Can't wait!

I'd like to have given it to Stones today. Found his confidence again and was moving forward, but I gave it to Joel because he made a couple of good saves and cut out a number of crosses and kept us in the game when we were going backwards.

Honest to God, we have to sort another manager out quickly though because if we leave it too long after Martinez's departure current players will be looking to go elsewhere.

We have to get a manager with some credentials if we are to attract players to the club. A 'going nowhere' club with a 'done nothing' manager will ensure that we remain 'also rans' in the Prem. To be taken seriously management needs to secure someone with credentials, to show we mean business.

I've assumed that Martinez will be going, perhaps at the end of the season if not sooner as we can't afford to be discussing this again next season as we did with Moyes for a number of years while the management dragged it's collective feet.

We need a new face with new ideas, getting the players back real early, getting them fit, drilling the defence and organising various plays to suit various scenarios (plan B, C and D!). Stop these annual pre-season shit games with Bury, Preston, Rhyl, Tranmere etc. and get some real opposition. Martinez's World Cup pundit scenario screwed this club to the extent that we're still paying for it.

Time for a change of outlook for this club. Get rid of 'the plucky underdogs' shit, 'punching above their weight' shit. If you want something to happen, you have to change things to make it happen. FFS let's get professional and do away with the 'that'll do attitude' that we've had to endure since Howard Kendall' departure. We need Joe's 'dogs of war' attitude to get management moving. Hopefully the new boss will assert some authority here and lose Bill's loyalty outlook (laudable though it is in certain circumstances) that has kept us in the 2nd tier....sliding to 3rd tier of Prem clubs.

It is an unhappy fact that Kenwright alone is responsible for an awful lot of what has happened in the last 20 years in this club. His refusal to sack managers at times where other clubs would have had them gone for years has taken this club into the mess it is now.

Moyes should have gone 3/4 years earlier, but Bill procrastinated for so long that the decision was taken out of his hands. Martinez should have gone 2 months into last season, yet here we are hoping he will be gone this season. A 'let's give him till Christmas' scenario should not even be on their minds behind the doors at Goodison at the moment.

I sincerely hope that the new boss with his past experience will see what has been going on here and fix it fast.

He just needs a good pre-season. He didn't play through the winter you see like Niasse.

I have to admit to being an early fan of Aiden, he looked pretty OK to start and I thought like many that he needed the summer break and a good pre-season to show his true worth. But it never happened. He got starts and never caught the eye, came on as a sub with the same result......never really fulfilled the promise that everyone thought he had. Scotland? Surely!

Has Martinez made the same mistake with Niasse? Right at this moment I'm inclined to say yes.

If someone's playing shite (which he has been) they'll get stick. By all means join the head burying corner.

Nah, not into head burying. I face up to reality. However, I realise that your reality may not be the same as mine. Mine says he was a good player.....he hasn't become a bad player, just lost form and his head at times. FFS he's only a kid! When I was his age I knew fuck all....my wife says I havn't changed:) He will come good again, whether he'll be wearing a royal blue shirt when he does I don't know. But it's people who are sharpening the knives as we speak will make it happen. Believe it.

I meant Martinez's idea of being a new manager, as during his first season he played it much as Moyes had done. I think Stones among others is just a victim of Martinez's total change of formation and tactics. Sorry if I confused everyone.

From NSNO forum 3 years ago....all sounds a bit familiar.

 

http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=42107.0

 

1) What do you make of Roberto Martinez? will he be a success at Everton?

 

" Difficult to say whether he'll be a success. He has a bigger budget & a better squad but he also has far bigger expectations weighing on his shoulders. I think Everton are at the peak of what they can achieve without big financial backing so the only way is down in many respects. At Latics he had very little pressure from either the fans or the chairman & got a great deal of patience even during lengthy runs of defeats. He won't get that anywhere else BUT having more money & (on paper) a better squad may be the spur he needs to show his true potential. "

 

" I don't think Martinez will replicate the same success of Moyes at Everton. Moyes seems to me like the kind of guy who is always willing to change something if it isn't working, whereas Martinez will beat a dead horse for all it is worth. This rigidity will possibly mean that Everton have periods where his attractive play decimates other teams in the league with a more primitive playing style, but then other teams will be well prepared for his often predictable ethos of focussing all possession down one flank by passing sideways across the pitch, which is easily negated by the opposition playing a wider formation. Therefore, I think under Martinez you will have absolutely blinders and then the next week absolute shockers, but never the same consistency as a manager like Moyes who can prepare a defence for the inevitability of a counter-attack started by a poor pass, which Martinez was utterly hopeless at during his time here. "

 

" Hes an eloquent speaker but will tell you what you want to hear. He is adept at avoiding difficult questions. Its far too early to say whether hell be a success at Everton but I doubt that hell do better than Moyes. He won the FA Cup with us but apart from that his cup runs were poor. "

 

" As a group, even on this site, we have very mixed opinions. Some members will wildly disagree with me, but my opinion of him isn't very good. Starting with the positives, he's a very nice bloke, total professional, and speaks well, so will be a superb ambassador for the club. He's committed to playing his idea of the beautiful game, so you'll see some beautiful attacking moves. On the down side, based on my experience, however, you'll see 87 minutes of sideways and backwards passing, interspersed with very poor defending. We weren't the best defensive team in terms of quality, but we did have some decent players, but Martínez's defensive coaching must be woeful. When things don't go to plan, you'll not see changes in tactics (or personnel until at least 80 minutes): there is no plan B. The attacking tempo is very slow and our breaks always relied on a single man, so often were stopped in their tracks. Your free kicks will be wasted with short passes when they could easily be put into the box; that's academic though since you'll rarely see more than 1 or 2 players in the box. "

 

" Success will depend on your own personal opinion. I can't see Martinez getting Everton Champions League as claimed by the man himself. Yes we won the FA Cup but he ripped that one great thing up, when he left us relegated and without a Manager. Just goes to show, modern humans are always Loyal to the £££££ notes and not the club as of old. "

 

 

2) What would you say was his biggest flaw?

 

" He's very stubborn. He has a very set way of thinking the game should be played & will often deviate from that regardless of the players he has at his disposal. I've heard a lot from Everton fans dismissing the volume of goals Latics conceded under him as being down purely to having lesser players. Some food for thought is that under Bruce, Latics had the 7th best defence in the division - with the exact same defence, within 3 & a half months of Bobby's reign they'd conceded more goals than during the whole of the previous season & that trend continued. "

 

" Martinez has many flaws . The biggest I would say is that he does not have a clue how to change a game if his plan A does not work.. He has no plan B and it is at times painful to watch . Don't forget this is the man that failed to strengthen the Wigan defence in the transfer window thus leading us to go down . "

 

 

" As has been said, defence. Over the four years he was here we conceded a lot of goals including some very embarrassing ones (see the Figueroa/Robles combination last season), being thumped 9-1, 8-0, 6-0, 4-0 by the top 4 wasn't great either, however it must be said that it was under Martinez that we have managed to beat these teams for the first time as well.

I don't believe that he doesn't have a plan b (we just didn't see it very often) as the 3-2 comeback wins over Arsenal and West Ham were some of the best games I've seen at the DW and included tactical changes. "

 

" The list is long, but for me it's the total absence of a plan B. you can go to the game and know after 15 minutes that the tactics simply aren't working. At that point, you despair because you know there'll be another 75 minutes of the same ineffectual tactics. Einstein put it thus: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." If that's true, Señor Martínez is a bona fide loon. "

 

" His stubbornness. He will never ever have a plan b, always relying on the attractive passing style. You can bank on him never changing the players of his team whether you're 2-0 up and need to defend or 5-0 down and desperately in need of a change. "

 

 

3) What do you make of our transfer business this summer with the additions of Kone, Joel Robles, Alcaraz and Deulofeu joining the squad?

 

" Kone will be decent only because you have the players to supply him, Robles good up and coming goalie, a good replacement for Howard in the future. Alcaraz is a very good signing if he stays injury free, no idea about Deulofeu but don't expect him to play much as Martinez seems to pick up loan players and never really used them. "

 

" I think all of those players are good signings, although I have seen little of Deulofeu. Alcaraz is ridiculously underrated and one of the strongest defenders I have seen in a Wigan shirt. Kone is inconsistent and rough around the edges, but with the quality of Everton's midfield and wide players, with suppliers such as Osman, Pienaar, Baines etc, he will thrive, due to his strength and speed making him able to latch onto the quality passes and crosses they will deliver. Robles was so good for us it upsets me we didn't make more of an effort to sign him permanently. Within a few years he will be up there with the best keepers in the league. So, despite the obvious displeasure of Everton fans at his apparent over reliance on his former players I think he has strengthened the right areas, with a striker who will put them away and a centre half who can lead the defence especially if Martinez plays 3 / 5 at the back. "

 

" Koné was excellent last season, and if he can maintain that form, he'll do even better with service from Baines, Pienaar etc. Alcaraz is also superb and was our best defender by a mile when fit, but is injury prone. If he stays fit he'll be great for you. Robles commands his area well, organises his defence, and is a star in the making. Distribution and kicking are a thing of beauty at times. Like a lot of goalkeepers though (especially young ones) he seems prone to the occasional howler, but is otherwise great. I know nothing of Deulofeu... "

 

" In all honesty, whilst good players for Latics, I don't think that Kone, Alcaraz or Robles are the quality of signing that a club looking to push for a top 5/6 finish should be making. They're mid-table/upper bottom half quality. As for Deulofeu - don't expect to see sight nor sound of him. He loaned loads of "promising youngsters" whilst at Latics & hardly ever played any of them. "

 

" I'm not sure why people rate Robles so highly here - he's decent shot-stopper and probably good back up for Howard but it's the most. Not sure he has chosen the right league to play in and 5-year contract for me is a risk. He was cheap for you and it's great but I won't consider him as a great EPL keeper, even in the future. Alcaraz is a very underrated player - for me he was the best defender I ever seen in a Wigan shirt - he is outstanding and we would never win FA Cup without him. About Kone - I don't think we ever had such good natural born striker in the last 7-8 years. I feel sorry to lose these 2 guys but in all honesty they don't deserve to play in the Championship.

 

 

4) Where do you think Everton will finish? why?

 

" 12th. I think you will spend the first half of the season adapting to his style of play and the second half wondering where the defence has gone. You will win games though, you do have a better side than Wigan. "

 

" My guess would be 10th-12th. Moyes' stability was a very solid basis for the team, and is now gone. You'll probably wonder why you've gifted so many points when you could've been in the Champions league if you hadn't conceded so many silly, needless goals. "

 

"Around 12th to 8th because of the high quality of the team he has inherited. I think his stubbornness and the significant change in style will hinder your performances. If Martinez has learned anything from the mistakes he made at Wigan I would expect you to be back to European contention in a couple of years time."

 

" I think Everton will finish above mid table, your squad doesn't look to have changed much. I would say it depends on the future of Baines, and any more signings that come in. It also depends how much Martinez changes the style of play and how the players adapt to it, so I'd say 8th. "

 

" Mid-table. Season of transition. I think you're likely to lose Baines & Fellaini & I think it'll take time for their replacements to bed in & for the whole squad to adapt to Bobby's system. "

 

 

5) Was Roberto Martinez the best choice for Everton FC? if not, who was?

 

" I think the choice was, with all respect, a poor one. I think it was based on the false promises Roberto is good at making, and his way of advertising himself as a skilled manager who kept such a 'small' and 'weak' team In the league against the odds, and the way the pundits rave about him because of the attractiveness of his passing style counteracting the way it hinders a teams ability to win. "

 

" Wouldn't have been my first choice. I'd have made a play for someone experienced who could take the best of what Moyes built and fine tune, rather than reinventing the wheel (to a Barcelona style system that doesn't work unless you have talent like Messi, Iniesta, Xavi etc, When he knows he's not got much money by PL standards. "

 

" Hes capable of managing a budget so he was probably the best choice in this respect. However, he was not the best choice if you are aiming for a European place. I would have gone for Laudrup. "

 

" Time will tell. I think he got the job purely because he was seen as being able to do great things with little money. The problem is for all that his good points will be magnified at a more high profile club so will his flaws. "

 

" Everton's budget isn't as tight as Wigan's, though you appear to have quite a lot of debt hanging around. I like Bill Kenwright, he's a likeable bloke and loves Everton. Apparently so does Martinez now! lol. I did like the sound of Ralf Rangnick, he did a good job at both Hoffenheim where he transformed the club from a 3rd division minnow into a genuine solid Bundesliga side and at Schalke where he led the club to a Champions League Semi. Martinez C.V. will say he won us a Cup and you have to give him credit for that, but you also have to give him credit/blame for relegating us. He can't have one accolade without the other. But good luck. "

FFS! How prophetic. Never were truer words said

I'm absolutely appalled by what I've sat through today.

 

Besic shouldn't have started because he clearly wasn't fit and Martinez will have known that. There were other options to replace Barry so there was no need. Then he subs him at half time for a defender when we're 2-0 down and not even in the game :/. Well done, we have a tactical genius on our hands folks!

 

Then there are the players... Fuck me, what a heartless, effortless, pathetic showing that was. Coleman, Rom and Lennon are probably the only ones who even tried. Coleman's crossing was woeful but at least he had a go. Lennon was having to come inside to do the invisible man Barkley's job of supporting Rom so was leaving their wide man in loads of space but, again, the lad showed guts the rest could only dream of. And Rom was having to try and be creator as well as get himself in the box on the end of anything!

 

Pissed off doesn't cover it.

I'm sorry if the point I am about to make has been said before, but I couldn't read through the whole thread as it hurts too much.

Romy, you said it all. Coleman and Lennon worked their arses off, Barkley never showed up, Besic and McCarthy were absolutely f''n woeful, Mori was a liability at times, Robles was really, really lucky with the Giroud 'goal'...he just flapped as badly as Howard had ever done....I could go on.

But the thing that really got to me (and I watched the game twice whilst flogging myself with wet celery) was the utterly careless attitude of most of the players including all the midfielders. They just seemed to think that someone else would get it going.

I was absolutely disgusted when on so many occasions the ball carrier had nobody to pass to. Midfield were hiding behind Arsenal players or standing so close as to make a successful pass impossible. They were virtual statues. It became apparent in time that they didn't want the ball. McCarthy and Cleverley were the worst offenders....they weren't making the angles to make themselves available. Barkley wouldn't pass unless he absolutely had to...and mostly left it too late and was dispossessed. Rom must have been wondering why he bothered to put his boots on as he got nothing in the way of support.

Football is a really easy game....the aim is to score more goals than the opposition. OK? The best way to do it is when the other team has the ball, you look for the other players. When your team has the ball you are looking for spaces. Right? This is basic schoolboy stuff, Football 101 if you will.

Why then do Everton's high paid players find this so friggin' difficult?

It didn't help that Jags seemed out of sorts and Baines is certainly off the boil, but what is Martinez doing about all of the problems? Nothing it seems. Does he know what motivation is? Maybe as some have suggested he's lost the dressing room, but to lose it means that you had to have had it in the first place.

His first season was great and the team deserved the plaudits, but then the 'new look, ticky-tacky passing' Everton showed up and last season was lost. This season is worse. I think he may have lost the team before Xmas last season, now here we are still debating.

Because of my location, I'm not up to speed on what the situation is now, but I went to the derby game 3 years ago (another draw!)and got the free bus from Sandhills station. It was an easy way to do it but getting back out was a f'n nightmare....just a couple of buses doing the run and there were hundreds of fans waiting.

Anyway, I digress. At Bank Hall I saw hundreds of acres of wasteland and disused factories and wharves....doing nothing! Surely the land can be turned into something useful like a stadium. Good rail links, good road access not far away on Scottie Rd.and Stanley Rd., heaps of parking space....etc.A good idea?

Was the Kings Dock thing a good option access-wise and why is it not happening?

I'd love a city centre stadium - absolutely love it.

As far as access goes it would be a massive plus for rail but parking would be a killer!

What parts of the city are ripe for improvement these days?

Is this the time to talk about rail access again?

 

Newt, will it still be strange if we are sitting 12th again (or thereabouts) next season at around this time? Wasn't supposed to happen last season and it did. Still happening now. Why should I believe any differently that it won't happen again?

I believe we were saying the same things about Davey boy in 2012. "Maybe 1 more season to see if he comes right'.

I'm not proposing we dump Bobby (although I wanted to dump Moyes) right now, but his record does not stand much harsh examination and his sub policies are as strange, or stranger than Moyes'.

It may be better to get rid in the close season and start afresh next campaign, I don't know.........just saying.

I was overjoyed at the goal against the barcodes and the result but was a little saddened by Newcastle's after match faces, they were clearly also saddened and amazed that they lost.

Move forward to today..... great game to watch...edge of seat stuff and we clearly had done enough to win, but it wasn't to be. Real role reversal from the Newc, game. Did't see the lad's faces at the end....were they as gutted as I felt?

On another note, FFS we need to get Robles out there! Is RM screwing Tim on the side or something?

Oh dear. This really is sad..... makes us seem petty.

I remember there is/was a small but quite upmarket grocery shop in Napier, New Zealand called MacDonald's. Been so for donkey's years, and yes they got sued. There was a little sandwich bar inPalmerston North called Harrods. Owned by a bloke called Harrods as was the MacDonald's owned by a MacDonald Didn't make any difference.... they got sued too! Made the big blokes look absolutely stupid.

Forgive me....... the only Cahill thread I could find.

Tim has signed on for another season in China. He's an absolute superstar there. Saw a short Sportsnews item on him here last week. He's on A$10mil a year...5 million quid in funny money. Hoping to start a football academy in China with part government backing and he's got the right contacts.Been seen around with the top footy blokes in the country and the people who hold the purse strings.

Good luck to him. A lot of people in China know Everton through Timmy

Had a good game v Brazil. Did what he had to but also moved forward with intent and laid off a few good balls into the area. Solid as.

But if he were to come back I'd see it as the tail wagging the dog. Pissed off down the M62 then does us a favour by coming back. No thanks.

Get over it Gwlad......that's ancient history. If he came back it would be because Bobby wants him, not because he'd be doing us a favour.

Can't believe there are 140 pages of the same old on this thread. Rom certainly divides opinion. I was at the beginning really hopeful........ now I'm just over it all. He's. got å lot of baggage to shift to ever be close to being worth half of what we paid for him. The money isn't his fault but the lack of interest IS.

FFS he's a petulant 22yo! Let's not get carried away here. He's a more than useful footballer with a peccadillo in the form of a childish response to a potential career-ending tackle.

We are all here to learn lessons.........so sayeth the Maharishi Yogi. I'm 68 yo and am here this time to learn patience. I'll have to retake this particular existence 'cos I ain't doin' so well.

Besic on the other hand will grow out of this particular problem......he's a kid, give him a bit of wriggle room.

I'd be happy to see him out here at the Mariners, but I don't think it would help him. I was made up when we joined with the Mariners, thought we could see some benefit for both sides. But I fear McAleny would not only miss the bus being out here, he'd be painting himself into a small corner.

The ideal age for a player to come out here would be 19/20/21 max. At 23 McAleny should already be on a track to somewhere. By the time he gets back to Blighty he'll be 24 having played last season down under............kiss of death, if you ask me. He'd honestly be better off at a Champ. or even league 1 outfit.

I've supported this club for as long as I can remember, and that's along time indeed. I went missing in 1974 to 1979 to NZ and was completely out of touch with football in a rugby-mad country. I got the odd Football Echo from me Dad, but that was it. A couple of years back in Blighty and off to OZ since then.

The reason for the potted history is to let you know that my close attachment to the Blues has been marred by distance a couple of times so there are long periods where I had little idea of what was happening.

When I was in UK the blues were a team to be reckoned with, a team with a long and glorious history that counted for something, a team that other clubs looked up to, wanted to emulate, and had no trouble getting players. It seems that somewhere between 1980 and 1990 it all turned to shit. My old man, God rest his Evertonian soul reckoned it was all Mike Walker's fault. But I looked and found that most Everton managers have been middle of the road at best. In fact, Martinez has the best win % ratio of any manager. WTF?

However, this post is more concerned about how we have fared compared to others.

Some folk on here are horrified that a player would rather go to W. Ham or Stoke or, god forbid, Palace than come to us.

What went wrong somewhere (and why) that we have fallen so abysmally into the abyss that the likes of Swansea and Soton are considered better bets than Everton when it comes to signing contracts?

How do the supporters of other teams see us? Or am I just an old man locked in the past?

If the latter is true maybe I should just enjoy it.

You can find the stats on managers here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Everton_F.C._managers Odd reading!