carlmc25

I honestly believe that if you took Gerrard out of the Liverpool team and put him in ours then we would finish above Liverpool. Working on this theory then for me, if Rodwell becomes as good as he looks he might, then he should be able to take us that next step up into the Champions League places. We've finished 5th two years in a row, one in an injury ravaged campaign so it's not as if we're a million miles away now.

Still think the center midfield is pretty weak, with Rodwell and Arteta being the only two who can turn games.

You only have 2 or 3 central midfielders playing in any one game and I'd say both Arteta and Cahill are capable of turning a game. Throw in Rodwell's continuous improvement and we could end up with one of the best all round playmakers (Arteta) one of the best goalscoring midfielders (Cahill) and one of the best defensive midfielders in the league (Rodwell). That looks pretty strong to me, the only thing is we need Arteta fit. Without him, I think we need to try Osman in the middle, he can link up the play but only in a 451.

Or Moyes?

Good, he's overrated anyway and we already have better.

I don't necessarily think that it was a case of "sell to buy" because we did have the initial fee of £5m accepted by sheff utd before Al twitchy came into the picture. So it was probably a case of getting through the window by spending as little as possible. I dont expect us to go out and spend £20-30m on players every window because its a simple fact that we cannot do that. But when you see the likes of players like Kranjcar (who would easily better what we currently have) going for £3m! Surely!! Moyes must have picked up that Pompey were out to sell there best players earlier in this window with the sales of defoe and Crouch, so we could have had that deal done pretty quickly i would have thought.

Think we were also quite unfortunate with Van der vaart aswell, will be interesting what happens with that one come January.

 

Anyways, cant see us doing better than we did last season, probably mid-table......But how many times have people thought that in previous seasons.

 

COYB.

Personally I don't think that much of Krancjar anyway, he's got no pace and nothing outstanding about his game. I'm not saying I wouldn't buy him for £2.5m as a squad player but I wouldn't have been overly excited if we had got him - and as Redknapp was always favourite that was unlikely. I've no idea what Bilyaletdinov is going to be like but I'd hope he was better than Krancjar.

I think we will be much more likely to use Arteta in a deep-lying playmaker role (similar to Pirlo), as he performed it brilliantly in the weeks before he was injured.

 

I think we'll see something like this when at full strength:

 

----Neville----Arteta

 

Pienaar---Cahill---Billy

 

----------Yakubu

 

 

Rodwell and Neville are interchangable, and I think Fellaini will also be used there as he was brought in as a holding mid and he showed glimpses of his ability in that role against Wigan.

Alternatively Fellaini can be swapped with Cahill in the attacking mid role.

I agree, that would be my team (assuming Billy is good) except apparently Billy can play on the RW so I doubt Moyes will move Pienaar as he has a good understanding with Baines.

I may be wrong but hasnt Neville played LB for us before? Im convinced he has an didnt do a bad job either!

Neville was England LB which is why signing Heitinga gives us a lot of options as we now have both Rodwell and Heitinga who can cover Neville should we want Neville to play either RB or LB.

Yes we have strengthened the "starting XI" but how many games a season do we manage to put out the strongest 11 players on the pitch? We are without Arteta and Jags with Yakubu only just getting back to fitness.

 

Every season we lose one of our big ticket players for prolonged periods. Arteta is our only real creative force (argue for Pienaar if you will but Arteta is the main man who without we look lost) therefore I feel that we really did need to strengthen more.

 

It's a squad game, you need to replace like with like and our bench has an average age of what, 17 or 18 and these young lads although prospects are miles away from regular first team action, especially at a supposed top 5 club.

 

Which other top 6 club has a bench as weak as ours? None is the short answer.

 

Now, yes we have brought in Heitinga which seems to be a good signings but we are still without any creativity on the bench and until Arteta gets back on the park too

 

Someone said earlier that they would only be concerned once the performances have suffered... seeing the first 3 league games I'd say that this has happened already.

 

Our first XI is strong, there's no debating that, my only concern is that we won't see that list of players play more than 20 games together this season and we do not have sufficient strength in depth to challenge the likes of Villa, Spurs, City, let alone the "big 4". This means we may fail to qualify for Europe, will that mean the established players will then want to leave for clubs in Europe? I'd say this is highly likely.

I see your point and it is a pity we missed out on Banega as otherwise I think we would have done very well this transfer window and covered all the areas that needed strengthening but at the same time, we do have more strength in depth than some people think. Moyes has bought a lot of players, through excellent management, who can play in a variety of positions - Neville, Heitinga, Arteta - meaning that one player in effect can cover 3 different roles. Look at Liverpool's team, without Torres they have nothing up front, we have Yakubu, Saha, Jo, Anichebe, Vaughan. Without Gerrard they're midfield is seriously weakened. They're strength in depth is wafer thin and Liverpool get a lot more revenue than us, if anyone should be getting questions asked it's Hicks and Gilette, not Kenwright. The fact is we can't spend money we don't have, we'd all like more money but as long as the club spend their money wisely and keep us going in the right direction then I'm happy. We've sold one starting player and let a load of bench warmers/injury plagued players go and brought in (on paper) 3/4 players who will possibly improve our first team, that is excellent business in my book. It was always in our interests to sell Lescott, Moyes must have known it deep down and just drove the price as high as he could to raise the necessary funds.

Once we get our injured star players back and with the increasing emergence of Rodwell the future looks pretty rosy in my opinion. We just need to keep in touch with City and particularly Spurs until Arteta is back, then we'll really be in business.

I'm looking at a possibility of playing a 4-4-2 when all players are back.

 

A midfield four would consist of Pienaar.. Arteta.. Banega.. Bilya, assuming that the new players are both fairly decent.

If you want go 4-5-1 it gives you a choice of adding Neville, Fellaini, Rodwell, Osman, or Cahill, at the moment i think Phil would get it as the holding Mid, so somebody has got to work really hard, and improve enough to earn a place in the side.

I still think we'll be better in a 451 as I still think Yak should be up front alone with Cahill behind him. I agree with your earlier posts though regarding Fellaini, he's just not good enough imo. He plays the same role as Cahill yet isn't as effective, Cahill then has to drop back into CM and he's just not very good there. Get Cahill back into the attacking midfielder role and sell Fellaini, we won't need him one Arteta is back. We just need another winger now for cover as Osman should now be used as cover for CM if Banega doesn't perform and until Arteta is back. Sell Fellaini and get in a RB and RW.

The reason he has gone against his policy is because we are desperate, end of. There is no mystery.

 

With regards to Carsley trust me you are wrong.

The reason he left was for those I stated and he would have gone if we had have offered him a ten year contract regardless ok wht wikipedia say

I think he has most likely gone against his policy because it's a lot different being a 30+ year old defender rather than midfielder. Defenders (Weir, Watson, Gough) get better with experience and aren't so reliant on pace and the stamina that a midfielder will need. I think Distin is a very good signing, £5m seems a bit pricey but he's left footed, experienced in the premiership, has always been a decent player and will allow Rodwell etc time to grow into the role and for Jags to return. I think he'll be an excellent signing. Nice one Moyes. Our transfer business is now starting to look up, selling Lescott was always the right thing to do to strengthen the team. It's just a pity we've had another rubbish start to the season due to all the uncertainty and negativity around the club, I expect things to change fast now and our season to turn around. COYB!

We were terrible but at least we should be able to guarantee a reaction in the next match so it may not be all doom and gloom. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter if you lose 1-0 or 6-1, fair enough it was embarrassing but I think it was just one of those days, some of the goals were just criminal and you have to wonder whether it is the LEscott effect undermining the team. I'm sure we'll bounce back. We need to get Cahill further forward, Fellaini just isn't mobile enough - I can't wait until Arteta is back.

You are quite blatantly barking mad....This coming from someone who's club captain is PHILL FUCKING NEVILLE....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......TOO FUNNY....

 

P.S. i think you'll find Gareth Barry has started the last 10 England Internationals. Capello would disagree with you. (i also noticed you left out Stevie "superman" Ireland!!! Better than any player you have.....PERIOD!!!)

In your opinion, personally I think he isn't fit to lace Arteta's boots. Never mind Arteta, throw in Yakubu and Jagielka as well.

well i'm no scout but i'm pretty sure you'd be able to find quite a few. saha has struggled with injuries for years and was hardly prolific last year. he's second choice to jo and that's before the yak is back. come to think of it 8 mil would go a long way towards jo permanently. as mentioned crouch was 9, you'd easily be able to replace a decent backup for 8 million, infact chances are you'll be able to get someone more consistent, younger, and less injury prone...8 million is a lot of money for saha.

I agree, in fact I'd let Saha go for £4m never mind £8m, £8m would be an absolutely insane price for an ageing injury prone striker.

I thought the article was ridiculously unfair on Lescott. If Johnson is valued at £18m and Terry at £40m then Lescott is worth more than £20m, not £8m as the writer puts it. Lescott is a very, very good player, not just 'competent.'

If he's going then he's going, no one can argue that £20m+ would be a good deal. As long as we have all the money to spend (and hopefully some more besides) then I don't have a problem with it. We have Rodwell coming through, we just bought another young CB, we have Yobo fit and Jags to return and if we can bring in another decent CB for somewhere in the region of £5m then we have £15m to spend. I'm not Senderos' biggest fan but if we get him for £6m then spend £14m on a really classy RW and RB then I don't think anyone could argue that we have dramatically improved our team - like we did when we sold Rooney. If I was Moyes though, I would be taking City for everything I could get as I think their transfer strategy has been anything but subtle.

I think Jamie is right. Personally I think some Evertonians just can't accept that Moyes and BK are doing the best they can and accept that for what it is and also show some appreciation for the job they have done and continue to do year upon year. Some people were calling for Moyes head at the beginning of last season, yet once again he masterminded another brilliant campaign and I don't see why fans get so doom and gloom when Moyes has constantly produced the goods. He deserves our trust and he will do the best he can with the money he has available and that means not spending over the odds for players or buying players who aren't good enough to take us that next step.

I think most of the doom and gloom stems from fans reading every single piece of transfer 'gossip' and thinking that there is truth in it and then when someone else buys that player (Cana) then all of a sudden we have no money, we don't know what we're doing etc when in reality Moyes probably thinks he isn't good enough, we don't need him or the price was too high.

Moyes and BK will be doing their best. If Pienaar rejects the first contract offer then so what, he's still under contract for a while I would assume and now he is just looking for the best deal - it's part and parcel of football and I'm sure it will be sorted. We've tied down virtually all of our best players to long term deals so it's not as if BK and Moyes don't know what they are doing, if Pienaar wants to move clubs then that's his choice, we'll get a good fee and move on, the same with Lescott. As long as Moyes is in charge I have faith we will continue to go the right way.

No question. Posted it elsewhere but our team against Blackburn in the opening game last year was...

 

Howard, Neville, Yobo, Lescott, Valente, Rodwell, Baines, Osman, Jagielka, Arteta, Yakubu.

 

Turner, Wallace, Gosling, Kissock, Jutkiewicz, Baxter, Agard.

 

By any reckoning we're stronger than that....barring another injury crisis.

That team doesn't actually look THAT bad on paper, until you realise that we had 3 defenders playing in midfield and Neville playing at RB. Those were tough times. No Cahill, no Fellaini, no Pienaar, Rodwell playing his first proper match etc. Once Arteta is back we'll be ok, we have a lot of players who can play various positions which is brilliant management on Moyes part. I just wish we'd signed Naughton (assuming he was any good) as then one of our problem positions would have been sorted and I think Evertonians would have been a lot more relaxed right now. We just need to make a signing and then the atmosphere will change, at the moment it is becoming worryingly like last pre-season.

I know all about our history but its just that history.

If we cant afford to improve the side we will get left behind . All of the sides chasing the top 4 seem to be after the same players and we all know that means that we will miss out on them because all the clubs that Ive mentioned would blow us out of the water

The likes of Preston and Blackpool were big sides in there day but they were left behind long ago. Now Im not saying that we will fall that far Im just saying we can no longer claim to be a "big club"

 

 

Its all well and good having one of the best fan bases in the league but if you look at the average attendances we are very much mid table.

 

Can you honestly look at our current squad and say that it is either strong enough or good enough? The defence is particularly worrying and if we were to lose Lescott it really would be a crisis and what happens if we start to pick up injuries and suspensions?

but we have basically the same squad that finished 5th and reached the FA Cup final last season and last season we had the worst injury crisis known to man. We also have Rodwell maturing, Fellaini/Jo having settled in, I still think we are in a stronger position than last season. I still think we need 2 signings, RB and RW and I'm sure Moyes knows it too (hence the bid for Naughton and the interest in Rasmus Elm) but after that anything else is a bonus. IF we sold Lescott then yes we need to sign some cover but otherwise we only really NEED 2 players.

I think you have made some very valid points and I can see where you are coming from however I think another factor that will push up Lescotts price is that we can not afford to sell him as we have only got 4 fit defenders as it is

I think the deciding factor is going to be the player himself, at the moment he seems to be keeping out of it nd getting on with his game and hopefully he wont want to leave us in the lurch

I can see him staying with us, at least until January

I think the main deciding factor is Moyes, not Lescott. Lescott is on a long term contract, Moyes is a stubborn, proud and loyal man - he won't care what Lescott wants unless he is compensated for it. He won't sell Lescott on the cheap, no way. He will only sell him for the price/players he wants whether Hughes/Lescott likes it or not. Lescott has done well out of Everton and I think he knows it and likes it here, I'm sure even if he wants to move that he will understand that Moyes won't just let him go unless it's right for us.

I understand you point Dunc but having more money then one club does not make you any bigger then the next, We are a big club we are the 5th best team in the best league in the world with a silver lined history and one of the best fan bases in the league. In todays world we are simply overlooked due to the limelight that being in the top four gives.

 

Its all about money these days and that makes Man U , Arsenal, Chelsea, the Shite, Villa, West Ham , Spurs, Wigan, Sunderland, Man City, Pompey all bigger than us

 

Out of those clubs i would say that only the top four are larger then ourselves i understand the lure money has on any player as it does ourselves but it simply does not make them a bigger club.

I agree, to say Pompey and Wigan etc are bigger than us is laughable. Portsmouth were taken over by Gaydamak and were supposedly big spenders, then with every season that went by their ambition lowered, their manager left, the players were sold off and now the club has a new owner, who's to say he's going to splash the cash left, right and centre? They also have a team nowhere near as good as ours anyway. We have consistently finished above the other teams every season. Lerner has been quite cautious at Villa recently, Sunderland are playing catch up and have new owners, their money will run out, the same with West Ham. Man City, if they buy the right players are going to be serious rivals to us, Spurs should be but manage to make bad signing after bad signing and have injury prone players in defence. If we sign a RB and RW soon then Evertonians mentality will change overnight, we just need to make our first signing!

Carl has just explained how Johnson comes into it, he is a one position player costing £18m whereas Lescott is a two position player, equally as good at full back if not better. We would have to replace Lescott with Two players.

We are quite happy to keep Jolean so if you want to move on by all means do so, its no loss to us.

 

On the subject of Jo, dont kid yourself that there is any hidden meaning in the loan deal, MH knows nobody will buy him for the stupid fee he paid and he's never going to get back the money he paid for him, he also knows that with Adebayor, Robinho, Santa Cruz, Tevez, and Bellamy, he's not even going to get a game, so the loan deal takes the pressure off him with us paying his wages.

 

 

Edit .... i'm slow on the typing so i'm a bit late with this post.

exactly.

Some Everton fans just need to remember what Moyes has done for us, he's a proud man and he wants Everton to get to the top, he's not just going to roll over to City unless the offer is too good to refuse or unless there is something in it for him. He's one of the best managers in Europe, the best manager we have had in years and he deserves our trust and respect. Quite frankly I find it a little insulting that we have a City fan on here telling us what Moyes and Everton will do, we don't have a small club mentality, we've been building for years and the upward curve will continue as long as Moyes runs the ship. If you want Lescott then prepare to pay for him, otherwise forget it and go and buy someone inferior and we'll keep our best players.

I fail to see how Johnson comes into this. The reason that price was so high was the result of a bidding war. £20m is already well over the odds for Lescott and I don't think any other clubs would match that right now. The fact that City will simply move on to another target (as several deals are already in the works) if this deal does not go through means that the value of this deal will not go any higher leaving Moyes/Everton at a point to explore their options to see what deals they can get and use this to their advantage. £20m is silly money for a defender and with Lescott angling towards a double-your-money move then this does not put Everton in a very strong bargaining position so I would not expect Moyes to be able to push the price up to what you say. But we have just lent you Jo for another season, I cannot see us letting this happen unless a lot of terms have already been agreed with the Lescott deal.

Johnson comes into it as a comparative sale, we don't HAVE to sell Lescott, so unless you match our valuation then it's going to be tough. Lescott is one of the best centre backs in the country and also one of the best left backs, by that reasoning I don't see how a valuation of £20m is inflated? He would give you cover for 2 positions and would be the best defender in your team in both. The fact is we know how much money you have, everyone knows your defence is weak and you are desperate to strengthen, we all know Hughes is out of a job if you don't start well so Hughes isn't going to be too concerned whether he spends £20m or £24m, I think the only worry as far as Hughes is concerned is giving Moyes too much money to make us even stronger as you're already playing catch up. To say Lescott is angling for a move is just pie in the sky rubbish at this moment in time and as I said, Moyes won't give a toss what Lescott wants - he only sells players if he wants to, bottom line.

im trying not to be negative but FFS, probably another one of our targets gone.

 

what pisses me right off, I remember kenright saying at the end of last season, " moyes will be backed in the transfer market " he isnt being backed unless the money is there and moyes cant persuade anyone to join who is to a decent enough standard.

Moyes moves for a player and then other clubs become alerted who have been watching him for some time, they then have to make a move. We probably tried to sign Rasmus Elm a few days ago but he and the club are holding on until they see what else materialises in terms of bids and clubs interested, you can't blame anyone for that - the guy isn't just going to jump at signing for Everton if he knows the likes of Liverpool have been watching him. He's taking his time, it's frustrating for everyone but let's just hope it still comes off.

I wouldn't put any money on it if I were you guys. City will NOT pay anywhere near £30m. Richards and Onuoha will not be used as a makeweight, Hughes has already stated this. You will get £20-21m for him at the very most if he does go. I think you will find the key is down to Lescott, not Moyes, and how hard he pushes for the move. The more he pushes, the cheaper the price will be for him but some of the prices being thrown around on here are a bit ridiculous. I think you will find that a bid of £21m would make your team seriously, serioualy think, that is if our next bid of 18m is not accepted. In fact I wouldn't find it hard to believe that this deal is very advanced and simply waiting on you finding a replacement (without people knowing that you have £20m as a bargaining tool).

Liverpool signed the inferior Johnson for £18m and he can only play at RB, Lescott is a fantastic CB and LB, he basically gives us cover in 2 positions meaning we'd have to replace 2 positions unless we somehow manage to find another CB who is also excellent at FB (how many of them do you know?). Moyes would have no reason to sell Lescott for £20m when he knows some of the fee will go to Wolves and he would need to replace him with two players, unless we get someone like Onouha then Moyes will tell Hughes to kiss it unless the offer is silly money. I think you underestimate Moyes both as a manager and his pride, also under Kenwright we have constantly got brilliant transfer deals - Barmby, Ball, Jeffers, McFadden, Rooney (imo anyway, he was never worth £20-30m). If Hughes wants LEscott then he's going to have to make Moyes happy otherwise forget it. £30m is too high but I'd be surprised if we sold him for less than £24m unless players are included.

Thats not really true. The Shite have signed Englands RB for £18M, if they do lose Alonso?Masherano they already have world class replacements lined up

 

Arsenal have only "lost" Adebeyor and are way out of our league anyway

 

Chelsea have signed one of the best left sided players in the world in Zirkov

 

Fulham have signed Steven Kelly (crap I know) but have also had a £12M bid accepted for Crouch sohave money to spend

 

Spurs have signed Naughton & Walker are also after Crouch add that to the money they spent in January

 

Sunderland have bought Campbell & Paulo da Silva and have had a £12M bid accepted for Crouch

 

Wigan have signed 4 players

 

West Ham have got Jiminez and Nouble

 

Villa have signed Downing and will no doubt splash more cash

 

United are weaker than last season but still in a different class to us

You don't know what Liverpool have lined up, their transfer window has been very worrying, two of their best players are constantly being linked with other teams, they're in loads of debt etc. Villa have sold Barry and bought Downing, basically they're weaker. West Ham are irrelevant imo, Fulham are nowhere near our level and have bought one average player, they may have had a bid accepted for Crouch but we had a bid accepted for Naughton, it doesn't mean anything unless he signs for them. Wigan have lost their best two players during the last few months, Valencia and Palacious and signed a load of nobodies. Arsenal have an injury to Nasri and now they've lost their one good and reliable striker - Van Persie has a lot to prove and is always injured. Sunderland are useless and Spurs have signed a couple of right backs for the future when they already have loads of full backs. The only worry so far is City. Everton do need to sign an RB and a RW but it's not all doom and gloom. When you actually look through our squad it's not too bad, especially once players are back from injury. The only area we are truly weak in is RW where Osman needs to be replaced and we need a good attacking RB. We're still better than everyone except the top 4 and possibly City depending on who they sign.

I want us to make signings as much as anyone but the reality is hardly any clubs have done significant transfer business except for City. Liverpool have signed a RB but are rumoured to be losing one or two of their best midfielders, Arsenal have lost a couple of players and only signed one (I think) Utd have made a couple of low key signings and sold their best player by a mile. Chelsea have done nothing, Aston Villa have weakened their team etc etc. We had loads of injuries last season and have good young players coming through, we just NEED a RB and RW, anything else is a bonus.