Bailey

He's such a legend... Not enough footballers like him

if they knocked down the park end and rebuilt that first, the capacity would be 32,000. if it was built quite big, we would not have to go below this figure at anytime. as soon as it is open the cost of season tickets in the park end would cost more and the corps could go in there at a higher cost too.

Yeh Iv read that somewhere too. Apparently the Park end (as it is) only cost around 3-4mil of which a large chunk was paid for by a Government grant. IMO its things like this that should have been embarked on ages ago or at worse after the collapse of KD.

So what happened to the Loop site? I know some group did a report on the site and said it was big enough but I dont know about the cost.

I thought the pic looked awesome when I first saw it.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2007/08/16/first-pictures-of-efc-rival-stadium-on-bestway-site-64375-19643073/

im goin with this. i honestly believe he is trying and providing the terms are correct, he would step aside.

the bigger a question is: what the "best thing for everton" is in his eyes?

Thats the problem for me. I dont doubt for one minute he is doing what HE thinks is right for Everton. However, im not sure how good a judge he is of what is right and what is not for the club.

Redknapp?

with defoe, keane, pav and crouch, would they need him?

It hasnt stopped them before... they must have one of the biggest squads in the Prem!

While I like Yakubu he does very readily piss me off as well!

For me Yakubu could be one of the best strikers in the world if he just gave that extra 5-10% than he does at the moment. Sometimes he just seems far more content to watch the ball run past him instead of chasing it. Having said that if he still bangs in 15-20 goals a season he can do what he likes!

As if, he played 442 due to our poor form and fan pressure calling him negative all the time. He probably thought, 'right, it's only Hull and everyone is moaning about me being negative so I'll play 442 and try and score a few goals, I can probably risk the formation in this match' and guess what, we lost. We could have played Gosling or Neill on the right wing. The fact is playing more players up front doesn't automatically make you a more attacking team, it doesn't automatically make a team more dangerous - what it does mean is that you have less players in midfield to win the ball and protect the defence. We've been rubbish for weeks even in a 451 due to the amount of injuries we have (not Moyes fault) and some players poor form but the fact is, at least in a 451 we are usually competitive and give someone a match, if we play 442 we're likely to be thrashed as our midfield is weak in a 4, it has been for the last 4/5 years which is why all Moyes success has been built on 451. If we had Gerrard and Mascherano I'd be happy with a 442, instead we have Rodwell (learning his trade) Cahill (totally useless in a 4) Heitinga (jury still out) or Fellaini (useless in a 5 never mind a 4) to play in there and they aren't up to it. Until Arteta and/or Pienaar are back fit we are going to struggle to win games and score goals, FACT. We need to accept it and stop moaning about performances and negative tactics, Moyes has no creative players fit so how the hell is he supposed to help us play attacking football? We need to get back to basics, defend and try and pinch a goal until our players return to fitness. It may not be pretty but I'd take grinding out results over losing any day. oh and Distin and Yobo just can't play together, we must have kept about one clean sheet this season, if Hull can put 3 past us I am genuinely scared about what Liverpool may do. We need to drop Distin and try maybe Heitinga with Yobo. Oh and how bad has Baines been this season, he needs a real kick up the backside, he's offered nothing going forward and been poor defensively. Can't wait for Arteta to be back, not least for his set-pieces (which some people used to have the audacity to moan about).

Most common sense post in this thread (Bar my own of course! )

The first part is exactly right, we could quite have easily played 4-5-1, the only additional absence is Felli from previous weeks and we actually gained Pienaar, so if Moyes really wanted to he could have moved Cahill to Felli's position and Pienaar on the left and stayed with the same 4-5-1 he started against Man U.

The second part is also right. We havent been a creative side for bloody ages. We have relied upon a tight defence, hard work and determination to get results. Its only recently we have added quality and at the moment all of those create something out of nothing players are injured (except Saha). We need to defend, throw our bodies in the way of everything and try and scrape wins.

Id also agree with the Distin/Yobo partnership as they are both followers not leaders. Lescott was the same, and thats why the Yobo/Les partnership always looked frail as well. However as Iv said on a different thread I wouldnt drop Heitinga as by most accounts he is our best midfield right now, and we have no other ball winners.

However I will disagree with 2 points in the Felli being useless. He is in a 4-4-2, no doubt but when he is allowed to play off the striker in a 4-5-1 and is allowed to stay forward he is quality IMO. Its no co-incidence his best performances came when he played off the top as opposed to in the middle. However this is also Cahill's best position so theres certainly a trade off. The other point is about Baines, I didnt watch the game yesterday but he has been far from poor. With Pienaar out he has received so little help from any other winger and Distin doesnt exactly inspire confidence inside him. He is a very important player for us and while he hasnt been lighting the world on fire, who in an Everton shirt has.

In past seasons we've scraped victories and draws when playing badly but this season we're being turned over by shite sides with incredible ease, so a relegation battle is a very real possibility unless the players remember how to fight.

 

The reason we managed to scrape wins in the past even when plaing poorly was down to our rock solid defence, but Yobo and Distin look like a pair of fairies together so it's piss easy to score against us atm. So if you're a side that's good for grabbing the odd goal when you're playing badly but concede 2 or 3 regularly then you're screwed.

 

I say drop Distin and get Heitinga alongside Yobo and see how that works. I simply don't trust Distin; he scares the shit out of me far more than Yobo.

I think both of them need a proper commanding CB to lead them even though they both have shit loads of experience. I always thought the Yobo/Lescott partnership looked dodgy at the best of times yet Jags + anyone and it always looked solid. I dont think it would improve with Heitinga back there tbh and if you move him to CB you probably lose our best midfielder on current form. Someone like Vermaelen or Laursen (retired I know) as that type of player lead the defence instead of sitting there waiting for someone else to make their mind up for them. In fact Vermaelen would have fitted into our team like a glove, im not sure how much he cost but im pretty sure it wasnt much more that Distin, if only the Lescott saga had been dealt with earlier in the summer.

That sounds like something I'd that would be done at an orgy

LOL.. yeh I should have probably re-phrased that!

It seems now that the clubs plan B might be a shared stadium, or should I say that it is 'now an option'.

Yet another way to split the fans right down the middle...

To be fair to Baines earlier on in the season we were scoring off his set pieces or coming bloody close to scoring anyway.

I dont know what injury he had but you tend to find the when players get groin injuries there SP delivery goes down the toilet.

Anyhoo, in answer to your question yes we do, Billy will be back against the shite and if Pienaar is fit enough he can always whip and in swinger into the box.

Sorry Carl, but anyone who thinks it's fan pressure is in cuckoo land. He is playing 4-4-2 because with the players he has available there is little else he CAN do.

Not really we have had no wingers for the last month or so, in fact with Pienaar being back it gives us even more reasons for going 4-5-1. With all due respect if you really believe it wasnt down to fan (and media) pressure and to some extent what happened in the 2nd half against Man Utd then its you that is in cuckoo land.

My first thought is that I am happy with the decision but then the reality sinks in that is 'where do we go now?'. Kirkby would have been a disaster for us but then again so has wasting 4+ years and millions of pounds and still not getting anywhere. The fanbase is split, the team is struggling and we dont have a pot to piss in. We are already way behind our main competitors on and off the pitch and if the club really dont have an alternative plans then it could be a while before we start moving forward.

Kirkby wasn't the right decision but neither was doing nothing.

Lets hope something positive comes from this and that somehow the players can pick themselves up from this embarrassing defeat to give us something to cheer in the derby.

COYB!

Do you ever watch us play??? Gosling fault for the first goal he wasn't even on the pitch!!

Lol at least that cheered me up a little!

I think Zayatte should get MOM as if it wasnt for him it would have been 3-0

442, that's how it can happen. Everton fans never learn, finally they pressure Moyes into playing it and guess what, we can't defend to save our lives. We just don't have good enough players in midield (without Arteta - and even possibly with Arteta) to play 442. We don't have the right balance, we don't have the class and players with authority. Rodwell is a little boy lost in midfield, Cahill is useless in a 442 (I know he's been useless all season but he's been out of position) and with only 4 in midfield our already shaky defence is even more isolated and nervy.

 

We cannot play 442, there is no point having two quality strikers up front if you can't get the ball to them. We have only one creative player - Pienaar - who is half fit, so we are always going to struggle to score goals no matter who we play. Due to relative inability to score we need to keep it tight and try and fluke a goal from somewhere, even a set piece. We need to concentrate on defending and keeping clean sheets. Moyes tried to be positive but we just don't have the players, Moyes already knew it but pandered to the moaning of the fans who think having more players up front suddenly makes you a better team when in reality it just gives us even less of the ball.

Amen... People always forget about the times we have outplayed and outclassed teams playing 4-5-1 yet when things go shit its '4-5-1 is negative, Moyes doesnt know what hes doing' '442 is the way forward, if we dont play two up top then we'l never score'... Fucking joke and Moyes is a fucking joke listening to these views. We are weak as fuck in the midfield with 5 in there and we are getting completely dominated by a shit team who have 4 and their 1 decent player in Bullard isnt even playing...

An absolute disgrace, I cant explain how pissed off I am right now and I know im not the only one. I hope to god Moyes puts his foot up everyone of their overpaid arses.

Apparently they did and now it's friggin gillette soccer special so I can't confirm! grr.

Yeh other sites have confirmed that SSN are reporting that it has been rejected although official confirmation will come tomorrow.

Im fairly happy about it although Im much happier that Pienaar starts tonight! Lets just hope he doesnt get injured for Sunday!

COYB's!!!!!!!!!

Iv just finished watching the CSKA match against Wolfsberg and Iv also watched a couple of their earlier CL matches and I have to say Iv been impressed by some of their youngsters. These arent official rumours, its more me seeing a player and thinking he could do a job etc etc.

Dzagoev is there main future star, I think he is in his teens and looks real quality and plays as a playmaker behind the main striker, so he probably wouldnt fit into the Everton way because of Felli and Cahill and Im pretty sure his transfer fee would put us out of reach.

Secondly Krasic had an absolute stormer today, ripping the FB to shreds and then scoring a screamer from about 25 yards so on that basis its kind of obvious why he looked good. Apart from that he likes to take on his man (something we dont have), he likes to play wide (we dont have too many of them), he is good in deadball situations (Not to many of them either), pretty rapid (dont have) but he may be a bit lazy which im sure Moyes could either drill out of him, or just take it as a downside with more potential upsides. He is also fairly young at 25 and has scored a goal every 4/5 games so far this season and 1 in 9ish throughout his career. However research that I have just done says that his price tag will also be pretty high (10-15mil) which is more than I thought but its a position we need and he has attributes that I would deem as desirable.

The last is Schennikov who is an 18yo LB and IMO would be good back up for Baines. He seems pretty good defensively although Im not to sure about going forward but Im sure hes no Hibbert in that respect. You would also expect his price tag to be pretty low and its a position that we are extremely short in.

As I said before its more of scout report than a rumour but I wouldnt be at all dissapointed if we were linked to any of them, especially the first 2 and I wouldnt be suprised to see them at bigger clubs (than CSKA) in the future.

Plus tomorrows the dealine day so I guess even if its a yes or no you would expect some sort of press conference, maybe not to announce it but to get some reaction.

Im actually quite nervous...

Right, someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong with clear, undisputable evidence to the contrary - here are the official accounts from 2003 and 2008, clearly stating that our debt was £34m in 2003, and £39.5m in 2008. I don't fully understand the balance sheets, but i do know that all the stuff listed in 'creditors' does not equal our debt - if you add all those figures in brackets up, you get a massive sum of money, but that's not 'debt' as in borrowings, it's stuff like money invested by shareholders (i.e. what would be owed if the club was for some reason forced to but back all shares at once) and money owed in transfer deals.

 

http://www.evertonfc.com/assets/_files/documents/dec_08/efc__1229522006_EFC_Report_and_Account_2008.pdf

http://www.evertonfc.com/assets/_files/documents/jul_08/efc__1215074774_Accounts03.pdf

 

I think it's important to get this sorted coz it as Everton fans no one is really clear what the financial situation of the club really is, so how can we make a judgment.

If you look at these reports and compare them to the previous year it would show that Everton arent doing too bad. In the year 2008 they had some significant costs (i.e. Finch Farm) and still made 5mil operating profit before player fees which more or less meant the club broke even for the financial year. This is ok but it means we arent eating into our debt and seeing as there is no cash available, all future transfers have to occur via the use of more loans. Our long term debt is around the 30mil mark which isnt too bad providing we can pay any capital repayments and the interest. Given the fact the Moyes couldnt spend any money this summer (only re-invested Lescott money) it hints that we may be struggling a wee bit. With the current financial situation banks may want more capital back from their borrowers, which is the opinion of a few posts that I have read into. If this does occur then it will certainly hinder any potential transfer dealings as any operational profit will be put straight into that pot rather than the transfer kitty.

We have creditors of around 83million, although not all of this is exactly what it seems. For instance 17mil of this is from pre-paid season ticket money. In accounting terms its 17mil that the club owes the supporters in football viewing. This means that whilst this figure is high, there is more than meets the eye and the banks wont come knocking at Blue Bills door asking for the money back (or at least that what financial experts on toffeeweb are saying!).

The problems arise if we cant keep maintaining the high finishing position and extra revenue from cup games. We need to finish above 7th/8th in order to get a decent TV money, which this year is looking a bit shaky. Should we not make the next round of Europe or the FA Cup then we will be short again and this will hinder Moyes' transfer kitty even further. Add this to the continuing stadium proposal money and the additional interest of the 30mil loan we agreed for the begnining of this season then it does raise some slightly concerning questions, although nothing to start panicking over just yet.

However if Everton could continue in a similar vein as 2008 or improve then we would be in a pretty solid financial state as we will be able to service our debt and improve the squad by around the 5mil mark each season. Yes that isnt much but we do have a decent squad when everyone is fit and we could probably go through January and next september without having to buy any new players, if need be. I expect this years figures to be down on 2008 although seeing as we technically didnt spend in the summer we may see similar numbers, we will see. I have to admit though its not in as bad a state as I thought although it could quite quickly turn if on the pitch performance doesnt improve.

i agree with a lot of what he says in round 3.

and in reaction to the last question, we dont need a billionaire, just a millionaire to steady the ship and let us run as a club on our own from scratch, which out reaching for the stars. in my opinion anyway.

I think we would need more than just one millionaire or the guy should be an almost-billionaire. I certainly agree with the last point, I just want Everton to get to the stage where they are not a selling club. We have done well in the previous years as we have kept hold of our best players and built upon it. However now it looks as though we will have to start selling players in order to get some new ones in and thats a shame.

With regards to the whole debt debate, as someone said they either have financially strong backing and/or they generate more turnover or at least have some assets in order to cover that debt. We only have Goodison as an asset, even some of the car park has been leased or sold off. We cant sell Bellefield becuase of the planning permission, Finch Farm is owned by someone else and the only other assets we have are our players. At the moment we are taking loan upon loan in order to run the club and buy players and we are now taking money out against our future income (I think, and its only think, thats what Leeds did?) and if we either do really crap (well we cant do much worse right now!) or the banks either decide they want there money back or dont want to lend us anymore then we could be screwed.

I think up to this point Kenwright has done alright as the chairman of this club, however if he stays on much longer without providing funds then he will be resented by a lot more people than there are now.

Score draw. Hull have found their shootin boots and Bullard is the key. Stop Bullard, you stop the goals. Im hoping Howard is ready because he will shoot from distance everytime he is given space, and the way we're playin, we'll give him plenty of opportunities to do that! Defenders cannot be complacent in this game, maybe on paper they're poor put with their grit and determination to survive, i know they'll be running at us for 90mins+.

 

This is however a better opportunity for us to get Yak and Saha playing together. 4-4-2 is a must IMO, as said Jo on the left and Cahill/pienaar on the right. Keep Rodwell and Heitinga in the middle, but tell one to be primarily a CM and the other a DM. Rodwell could be given the chance to shine in the middle if DM wants him to, but we will see. Neil must start (RB or RM) he's been one of the only positives from our recent games, so lets keep him and hope that Hibbert hasnt prostituted his wife to Moyes once again.

Pretty much spot on for me... I would give almost anything to have a player with the drive and energy of Bullard in the middle of the park for right now. I used to think that was Timmy for us but recently he has been about as inspiring as [insert joke here cos I cant think of one right now]. Bullard will absolutely run the show for them tomorrow but hopefully Heitinga or someone will be used to do a job on him.

The Heitinga/Rodwell thing is right on the mark, one of them has to sit and one of them has to be given a free role to get forward. Against Man U it looked as if they didnt know who was meant to be doing what. Id also like to see Cahill play on the touch line to offer width if he is going to start on a wing. Im not saying he has to play like a traditional winger, but at least start out wide to offer a pass and stretch there defence.

Having said this, I can more or less guarentee none of it will happen... Bullard will roam free, cahill will, er, well im not sure what is doing for the team at the moment, and the supply to the frontment will be non existent apart from the odd Distin/Yobo hoof...

That's about right Mark....it's from the planning application document dated November 2007.

 

http://inquiry.knowsley.gov.uk/Core%20Documents/CD%201.6.1%20Proposed%20Stadium%20EFC.pdf

 

8.13 The cost of the proposed new stadium that is the subject of this planning application is in the region of £130m at September 2007 prices, including the basic level of IT and fit out required to achieve appropriate operating licences. This would deliver what can be regarded as an iconic and attractive well specified mid-range Premier League football stadium.

 

Funny how everyone has picked up on "mid-range" as the main description rather than "iconic, attractive well specified."

 

Maybe it's "mid-range" purely because it's not the same size as the Emirates or Old Trafford? Possibly those two plus Wembley are the only "World Class" stadiums in the country....and if (because I'm only speculating here) that's the case then we'd be insane to build one of our own wouldn't we?

Yeh thats a very good point... But to me its almost a contradiction in terms. Mid range says average quality, yet iconic and attractive says high quality. I dont know exactly what they mean by it and im not sure too many people do tbh.

While im not really too sure how they are getting on, I do know that Arnoux scored yesterday in their draw with Sunderland recently. I wouldnt get your hopes up of any of them coming through yet considering if they were to ever get a game or even a subs appearance it would've been now.

If we get an easy draw in the FA Cup we may get to see them...

We're not very good full stop really.

lol... sad but true

"Many fans oppose the move from the historic Goodison Park stadium to Kirkby, four miles away in the suburbs of Liverpool. However, hemmed in by terraced houses and a church in one corner, redevelopment would not increase capacity and would cost more than a new ground, the club said."

I would also take this with a pinch of salt... The contractors they got to look at the cost of redevloping Goodison were the same ones who costed the Tesco deal but had much more to gain by the Tesco deal going through. How it can cost the same amount of money to build a stadium from scratch and to redevelop parts of Goodison Im not quite sure. Saying that if it cost the same to redevelop Goodison and build the new 'average quality' Tescodome then I know which one I would chose.