Bailey

It just reeks of us being seduced by Tesco's offer of cash and waking up one day to find we've signed our future away to Sir Terry and his merry men. He might be an Everton fan, but he's a brutal business man - I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the small print we stand to lose a load of money to Tesco if this doesn't go ahead, which is why the board are sounding so desperate. We should have walked away long ago in my opinion, but perhaps that's not an option now.

Thats exactly what it feels and sounds like... Add to the fact that if it is a 'no' then we will have wasted 4 ish years and a reported figure of around 4/5million on 'experts' etc.

Apparently the Tesco will pay 52 million is bollacks... The documents show that this value is derived from the value of the land after the development has been completed and even Tesco Terry has said that they arent paying a penny towards the stadium. Similarly Terry had said initially that it was an enabling development i.e. if the retail park wasnt built then neither would the stadium, however since it got called in, Tesco have changed their minds and have said that if the stadium cant be built then Tescos will still try and build their store.

I was initially for the move and thought it would be an exciting time for Evertonians with fortunes on the pitch looking up and a nice shiny new, and cheap (remember the virtually free comment from Wyness)stadium to be proud of. I now feel like I am being black mailed by the club as the quote from Elstone above highlights (if it doesnt go ahead we will be bottom half etc etc).

I am now actually scared for the future of the club. If its a yes then we will be paying at least 78mil for an average stadium in a retail park with no transport plans for what should be a 6mil a year benefit IF we have an average attendance of 47,000 for the year, even though we barely ever fill out our stadium now! However, if we stay then we will be at a ground that is more or less failing apart in places and is already way behind other clubs of our stature. I would have loved to redevelop Goodison, but I feel that option has been and gone as we have left it too long and should have happened way earlier in Kenwright's tenure, especially after KD collapsed.

Whatever the result of the inquiry is going to be trouble for Everton and will more than likely mean we will need to sell our best players to fund it unless we get a sugar daddy. If that happens you can wave goodbye to the Rodwell's of the future and welcome back mediocracy, if not worse...

As most of you will know the decision on Destination Kirky should be made this week (I think sometime before Thursday?). This will be a big week for Everton football club, especially as it ends in the derby match. I found this article on ToffeeWeb and its attracted quite a lot of interest (248 replies!) and it has a lot of information that I had never heard or never realised so I thought some of you may like to read it, whatever the outcome you want.

The original article isnt that much cop, but some of the replies are very enlightening!

http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/09-10/comment/fan/article.asp?submissionID=13719

If the link doesnt work just go to Toffeeweb - Fans Articles - "What Happens If..."

Id like to see Moyes shake up what he can for this game, in either a 4-5-1 or 4-4-2. I get the feeling he will go 4-4-2 because that got us the most success against the Mancs, and knowing the predictability of Moyes he will probably think it will work against Hull, even though it very rarely does for us.

Id play 4-5-1 because at this moment, Yakubu looks to have more impact from the bench and should things not be working out Moyes should be prepared to change it earlier on.

My formation would be:

Howard

Neill - Yobo - Distin - Baines

Heintga - Rowdell

Baxter Jo

Cahill

Saha

Id look to make sure Cahill doesnt drop too deep, so that it will more or less play like a 4-4-2 with cover if its necessary. Baxter might as well get a run out because lets face it, Gosling has been shocking, and I imagine Baxter will have a slightly more attacking mindset being a striker more predominantly. A Similar type of thing with Jo as well, hes a confidence player and needs games, even if they are out on the left. Plus of all the players we currently have available he is the most creative, even if his decisions arent always the best.

I also think Moyes needs to nominate one of Rodwell or Heitinga to be a proper holding midfielder and actually protect the back 4, a la Carsley and let the other have a bit more creative freedom and get forward if its on. As someone said on a different thread, Everton may have missed a trick on not buying Cana for this role.

I desperately hope its a win, and a big win, especially ahead of the derby but I just dont see it...

I think Pienaar starts training today in hope that he will be able to participate in the derby this w/e.

We dearly need him back and IMO he is the most influential player in the whole squad.

Aw thanks guys!

I dont think its got so much to do with the formation, but more the players we have available. Without our creative players to keep hold of the ball and distribute it wisely the midfield cant get any sort of foothold on the game. At the moment we have the 'workers' of the team and at the moment they arent even doing that. Without the direction from the creative players and leadership from the likes of Neville and Jags, they just seem to be running around like headless chickens.

As you righly say Fellaini and Cahill dont really work together and with a fully fit squad this will be a headache for Moyes. They are both very good players in the support striker role and contribute very little anywhere else on the field atm. Its no suprise Fellaini's performances have improved since he has been made to play off the striker, and only dropping deeper when we are under the cosh. If Cahill plays there against Hull then I imagine he will have a good game, and I wouldnt put it past him to score.

Similarly in the middle we have Heitinga and Rodwell who are also fairly similar although Jack is more finesse whereas Johnny is more force. They are both not out and out holding players a la Carsley or Neville, and thats the problem, especially against Man U where there was a massive gap on a number of occassions between the defence and midfield.

Things could be a whole lot different right now if it was Heitinga and Fellaini injured instead of Neville and Pienaar, as this would give us much more balance in the midfield. It probably wouldnt be brilliant but it would be a lot better (although thats not hard!).

If we have no more players injured for wednesday and we play 4-5-1 Id like to see Jo start on the left to hopefully give us some creativity and Cahill off Saha/Yakubu, with the rest as it is (seeing as there is no-one else really available). I wouldnt expect to much tracking back by Jo but I would hope that he would add some more guile (sp?) going forward.

The commentery really was terrible on ESPN especially the Vidic 'its a part of the game elbow' and the Fellaini 'recklessly flailing his arms elbow' even though Heitinga ended up with the shiner.

Yes Man U had a lot of the ball and looked dangerous especialy down the flanks and deserved to win BUT we had 3/4 good chances and they scored 2 top quality goals and a deflection. We were out played, as we probably should be at OT without our best players but on another day with more luck we could have got something out of the game.

Definately need a win midweek and hopefully the return of some players!

I actually thought we had a few decent players today but we also had some bad players which averaged it out across the team. At the end of the day we had 4 real good opportunities (including the Fellaini offside, when he shouldnt have strayed) and at OT that isnt bad. Yes they played us off the park, no doubt, but when it counted they scored and we didnt, even though in most cases their chances were harder!

Howard did well, some good saves even if some of them were offside!

Baines and Distin did well IMO. I couple of really critical challenges or blocks and IMO it was Distin's best performance for the club, and its a pity his partner Yobo was crap. Same can be said of Neill who was toothless, although he got very little help from Gosling and did actually play some quality passes.

Rodwell was very poor IMO, its fairly clear he is troubled by any sort of movement. I love him to bits and I dearly hope he isnt sold in January. He did make some nice interceptions and did spread the play when he was able to. Im confident he will improve greatly when he is given more support and options to pass to.

Heitinga impressed again. The more I see the more I like, I just thought the game was begging for a Neville-esque crunching tackle that never really came... A couple of times he was guilty of not picking players who dropped off the CB's much like Rodwell. There needs to be more communication between the defence and holding players as they are leaving gaps all over the place that players like Rooney thrive on.

Gosling and Cahill were as crap as each other. Did nothing. Cahill did have that one chance, which was a well timed run and on top of his form I think he would have scored. What pissed me off more though for the Everton captain was how little he got stuck in and tracked players at times. If he had challenged Valencia (I think) with a proper clearing header instead of trying to push him out the way the ball wouldnt have dropped to Fletcher for the first goal. If he had jumped and got beaten in the air I wouldn't have minded because he tried but instead he tried pushing him out the way instead of doing his job properly. A couple of times I also saw Howard screaming at him for just letting players run past him, one which led to an Owen offside chance.

Yet again I though Felli had a good game. Got stuck in, shame he got booked. The ref said he booked him for 3 or 4 challenges but the other offences werent and its a fucking joke that he gets done for having his arms up yet Vidic gives Johnny H a shiner and gets away with it. He linked up with Saha well and if the other midfielders/defence could have got hold of the ball more and passed it around he would have been more influential.

I though Saha was quality, real quality. The only thing he missed out on was scoring. His work rate and link up play were very good even when he was 1 vs 4 at times. When the Yak came on he also looked good although he was clearly still short of physical fitness. He was a bit sluggish in movement but very sharp mentally which is a good sign IMO. I also though Jo had a good cameo, didnt really get much ball, but made some decent off and on the ball runs, shame we didnt see him earlier, even if it was to play down the left.

A bit long winded but in the end my MOM goes to Saha with Heitinga, Distin, Howard and Felli a close second.

With Felli out against Hull, if we can get a winger fit Id expect to see Cahill down the middle and it wouldnt suprise me if he gets a goal.

all gobbledegook to me louis but one thing is certain the land valued 6yrs ago wont be worth anything like it was then due to the recession.

Dunno, land prices seem to stay fairly constant but there might be a small reduction. However things like building costs etc should have gone down quite a bit. I dont know whether they have already agreed a deal with contractors but if they 'shopped around' then im pretty sure they may be able to get the costs down a wee bit.

"i think you miss a lot of the fear we have. its not a case of wanting success now, im scared of losing the club completely. we are in massive debt, people always say not as much as the big boys, but they bring in a lot more cash to cover them. we are on the brink! we have sold everything we own apart from GP (and bellefield but with no PP we wont sell it to anybody)

i just want someone to come in who can stabilise the club, not arsed about buying all the worlds stars, just let us run from scratch again, that would give us a transfer budget of £15m+ each summer. maybe even buy back finch farm. but just to make us safe is priority number one for me."

For me this is the casing point for all those fans that are against Kenwright as Chairman rather than as a person. I dont care about a billionaire owner coming in and buying us the ROnaldos and Messis of this world, I just want the club to be safe from going under as well as a few million each year for Moyes to buy a couple of players but MORE IMPORTANTLY not so we have to sell anyone to get the funds. It may have started with Lescott this summer, but we keep going the way we are then itl be Rodwell in January with the likes of Pienaar, Mikky, Jags etc going next year. Sooner or later it will be Moyes jumping ship and we will be back were we started under the reign of PJ. I fear that if Kenwright doesnt leave or find funds soon then all the progress he and Moyes have made in the last few years will be undone...

There's no RefCam so it's impossible to know whether or not the ref and linesman had a clear view but if there was ever a more obvious example of why football needs a Television Match Official it was the 11 Irishmen on that pitch who cried their eyes out at the sheer travesty of it all.

 

My FA Cup disappointment has nothing on this.

SSN have done a feature on it where they use video technology to see whether either of them had a view. It turns out the ref had no way of seeing yet the linesman had a clear view. I thought the ref had a very good game, especially with the Anelka dive call (should have been booked though). Iv always thought of Henry as one of the greatest players Iv ever seen play football, and for me this tarnishes his reputation a little. Like someone said, in the same situation I would probably have done the same, at least instinctively, but I would like to think I would have owned up to it before the decision of a goal was counted.

I think we will see the true potential of our team when we get Pienaar or Arteta back, and probably to some extent Neville. We really miss any sort of creativity right now and if it werent for some King Louis wonder strikes we would really be in the shit this year.

When Arteta got injured our chances created dropped dramatically and with Pienaar also missing our chances are pretty much non existent. Its quite an exciting prospect to have these two, Billy and Saha all in the starting line-up, in fact it would probably the most creative line-up we have had for some years at Everton and I really hope for our prospects this season, that it occurs sooner rather than later!

if rangers and celtic were put in league 2, their team as it is would be too good for sure, but i think a lot of their players would leave and with that in mind i think they'd find it tough to get into the prem, most of their players are championship standard as it is.

I it was Walter Smith who said the other weeek that the best Scottish players/youngsters were leaving to go to League 1/Championship which highlights the quality of the Scottish league. They may be able to raise it for a game or two against English opposition and fair not too badly but doing it week in week out is a different story, especially with cup comps and injuries etc. Just look at Celtic the other day drawing with Falkirk 3-3 of which Falkirk played their reserve team coach (I think) as well as several youngsters yet Celtic with a more or less full strength team could only draw. That simply would not happen with any of the big boys in the PL.

The problem is now that most lower league clubs are a bit wiser than they were a handful of years back when we got the likes of Cahill and to some extent Arteta. We can still get youth in cheap but it has to be really young with the likes of Mustafi and Garbutt who are around the 16 mark and I think will still cost around 1 mil, espeically with all the debacle there has been recently (Kakuta/Pogba etc). The prices of young players, especially English, has risen quite a bit. Just look at the summer with Delph and the Kyles at Sheffield Utd not to mention the price of 6mil for Nugent.

I think the only place where players are cheap but it is very much a gamble is in S. America or around that way. Just look at the lads Wigan have brought in who have cost them very little such as Palacios, and some of the other lads whose names I have forgotten .

Im pretty sure Moyes does look but he probably better off buying semi proven quality than unproven and paying a little bit more for it, and if that doesnt work I say bring Gazza back!

"...In the meantime, I say be patient. Kenwright might not be the saviour but he has given us steady progress over the last decade, so i don't really see what everyone's moaning about"

Great post Nogs however its not just as simple as waiting for the right man to come along. The current financial state of Everton FC is terrible. We cant keep taking out loans on top of loans until this guy comes along. This season doesnt look as though its going to be all that great meaning its unlikely that we will generate anywhere near the revenues we did this/last year. Not only will we not be able to attract the top players in terms of funds/wages but without the lure of Europe they are likely to go elsewhere, and unless this is addressed its very much a downward spiral just ask Leeds and Southamptons fans!

While I agree we do want our owner to have a passion for the club, if we dont get some finance soon we will be in larger debt with very few profitable assets and if this is combined with poor form on the pitch then we will be in real trouble. And that situation will attract very few buyers and it will be too late.

Yeh it seems he is according to the OS.

Aye, but the power required to knock a guy that weighs that much and towers above you that much is a lot more than the other 23 opponents he's fought.

 

The Klitschko (sp?) bros will be a different kettle of fish...

Well he very nearly did in that last round with a punch that wasnt even flush.

Haye has never fought that way before, he normally stands and trades for the most part plus his chin is certainly questionable so it was never going to be a definite result on points.

I thinks its a stupid idea for many of the reasons already stated. Although I think the introduction of a two-tier PL is just as stupid, if not more so. What exactly is wrong with the way we have it now except the distribution of funds? Whether its 2 leagues or 1 the rich will get richer and those struggling will invariably keep struggling.

Just proves the England set up dont really watch matches! It explains how Crouch consistently gets in the 1st team squad...

Hmm, without the assurance of a water right defence I cant feel condident about this. Expecting a big red Backlash from the loss at Chelski.

comfortable 3-0 for Utd.

 

Having said that it could be the game that we need, the more senior and better players standing up and being counted. I.e Cahill, Fellaini, Distin...

 

COYB!

... and another Neville season changing super tackle would do nicely!

Not to sure but I think Joe Cole had a similar injury and he has been pretty decent since coming back.

A lot of reports also suggested the Yak wouldnt be the same player he was before getting injured but he seems alright to me, hes just as lazy as he was before!

With all of our current LT injuries I imagine/hope it will just be a case of getting games under their belt and not picking up any more injuries during the rehab.

It was certainly a hard fought win out there today and I agree with most peoples views on the game.

I thought it was a toss up between Joey and Heitinga for MOM. Both played well, got stuck in and did well.

Hibbert looked as though he was constantly out of position, not quite sure what he was doing at times and give him another 10 times to clear that ball off the line and I bet he does it.

Im not sure whether I should critise Cahill or not. He was crap, did very little, offered very little support for Baines BUT he was out of position. Hovever IMO he is a seasoned professional and should have done better.

I thought Felli had a good game. When he got some delivery he did well, won a lot of headers and some 50/50 balls. He looked nackered though IMO and should have come off at some point but I dont really know who for. In the second half he did seem to nick the ball off of the West Ham players when they were in good positions but he could certainly do with a rest, as could Rodwell.

Im also not really sure what to say about Gosling. He did very little especially going forward but did a score a goal.

Saha and Yakubu both did about as good as they could with what they were given. Yakubu still has that annoying trait of just watching the ball go over him or past him if its not played directly at him. However, he came on and created a decent chance. One of the main differences between these two and Jo, is that they have the confidence to get the ball into feet and try and take on their man. ATM Jo would try and pass it off, or half heartedly try and take his man on.

Overall it was a bad but gritty performance that did just about enough on the day. Now comes the international break and hopefully a couple of returning faces before the Man U game. Although I certainly wont be expecting a result there!

I voted for Heitinga yesterday but after watching it again on Football First I think Joey should probably have nicked it. He had a really good game making a lot of decent interceptions. Saying that though he did let Stanislas go for the OG and should have tracked him better.

Yeh Jonny H as well for me... Hes just frickin crazy