duncanmckenzieismagic Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 yeah and its moyes who chooses those players at the end of the day, he wants to play that way, regardless of who he has at his disposal, heitinga and billy cost a fair bit of money and even i will except finally that both are shite, and the money could have been spent better, but he chose them, why loan yobo, then spend money on hetinga, and start him in midfield which his not his position(which he was at the start of the season), thats bad tactics for me mate, and thats down to Moyes, we should have spent the money on someone like ledley of cardiff, or kightly or jarvis, the list goes on Moyes has built a very good squad but he has had to do it bit by bit and we are still not the finished article. He has had to buy players that are versatile because we have been so short on numbers. Heitinga was superb last season playing as a defensive midfielder and not too many people were complaining then and he is still light years better than Yobo now. It looks like he got it wrong with Bily but can you name a single manager that hasnt got the occasional transfer wrong? Your saying the money could have been better spent, well isnt hindsight a wonderful thing? Could the money for Arteta, Piennar, Martyn, Howard, Cahill, Lescott, Coleman and Jagielka have been spent better? Its all good and well saying we should have signed Ledley and Kightly because they are good in Championship manager but neither have done it in the Prem so they may not have worked out either Im sure Moyse would love to have £100M worth of talent sat on the bench so that he could chop and change his formations at will but the fact of the matter is we dont I am not for one minute trying to claim he is perfect but I am saying that nobody else could have done a better job at Everton than he has done and he desreves a shot at a big club. FFS if Harry Redknapp can do it Im sure Moyse could Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggles Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Moyes has built a very good squad but he has had to do it bit by bit and we are still not the finished article. He has had to buy players that are versatile because we have been so short on numbers. Heitinga was superb last season playing as a defensive midfielder and not too many people were complaining then and he is still light years better than Yobo now. It looks like he got it wrong with Bily but can you name a single manager that hasnt got the occasional transfer wrong? Your saying the money could have been better spent, well isnt hindsight a wonderful thing? Could the money for Arteta, Piennar, Martyn, Howard, Cahill, Lescott, Coleman and Jagielka have been spent better? Its all good and well saying we should have signed Ledley and Kightly because they are good in Championship manager but neither have done it in the Prem so they may not have worked out either Im sure Moyse would love to have £100M worth of talent sat on the bench so that he could chop and change his formations at will but the fact of the matter is we dont I am not for one minute trying to claim he is perfect but I am saying that nobody else could have done a better job at Everton than he has done and he desreves a shot at a big club. FFS if Harry Redknapp can do it Im sure Moyse could spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Im in agreement mate, when people make comments about Moyes not making great subs half the time we have Kids to come on! When have we had a season when weve had a fully fit squad to pick from? At a club like Man U they have Subs that would make most 1st teams so when your losing or need a goal its easier to do! Lets be honest what Moyes is good at is team spirit, that bonding that makes a decent team good, imagine that at a good team! Thats why he'd be a success! I agree Duncs on that he has done a good job and more then likely not many others could have done what he has on a shoe string budget in terms of player quality but then you have to look at it from the other side aswell what exacly has he done or acheived in 8 years? I think he's a good manager never have and never will dislike the man as I've spoke to him a fair few time's and he's a great chap aswell but at the and of the day it all amounts to fuck all if you don't bring in any silverware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 i'm happier bein a solid top half team rather than struggling to stay up every year whilst winning an fa cup once in 15 years...he's made us a team that no one likes to play and granted we have had a poor season but the fact we are top half and say we have had a poor season shows how much he has done for this club..i'm convinced we would have been down if it wasn't for him and with the money that is in the lower leagues too who knows..would we have got back up? i'm not 100% sure..he has massive faults and the biggest is definitely his tactics and subs because at times they are baffling..i don't agree with smeghead about the kids thing with subs cos it isn't always kids he has to bring on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Lets all be honest anyway, we can sit here and moan about Moyes, but its Kenwright thats the problem not Moyes, Kenwright is rapidly becoming a cancer that is eating away at our club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Lets all be honest anyway, we can sit here and moan about Moyes, but its Kenwright thats the problem not Moyes, Kenwright is rapidly becoming a cancer that is eating away at our club. Agreed :shaking fist: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmc25 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Moyes has built a very good squad but he has had to do it bit by bit and we are still not the finished article. He has had to buy players that are versatile because we have been so short on numbers. Heitinga was superb last season playing as a defensive midfielder and not too many people were complaining then and he is still light years better than Yobo now. It looks like he got it wrong with Bily but can you name a single manager that hasnt got the occasional transfer wrong? Your saying the money could have been better spent, well isnt hindsight a wonderful thing? Could the money for Arteta, Piennar, Martyn, Howard, Cahill, Lescott, Coleman and Jagielka have been spent better? Its all good and well saying we should have signed Ledley and Kightly because they are good in Championship manager but neither have done it in the Prem so they may not have worked out either Im sure Moyse would love to have £100M worth of talent sat on the bench so that he could chop and change his formations at will but the fact of the matter is we dont I am not for one minute trying to claim he is perfect but I am saying that nobody else could have done a better job at Everton than he has done and he desreves a shot at a big club. FFS if Harry Redknapp can do it Im sure Moyse could When we had Yobo and Jags together we were keeping loads of clean sheets, our defensive record since Lescott left and we stopped playing Yobo has been nothing short of abysmal. I think Yobo is a far better defender than Distin, he just went through a bad patch. I agree with most of what you are saying Dunc, as usual, but Moyes tactics have to be questioned. I've always been a big believer in Moyes and he has done an unbelievable job, but his substitutions have always been way too late and usually poor, his tactical acumen seems virtually non-existent, as in we keep letting in cheap goals, we don't vary our play or tempo. He has built a very good team but when he does have options he doesn't know how to use them, we always do better in a crisis when backs are against the wall. Also, I agree with some posters about success in the market, in general he has done brilliantly, the worry is when he does have big money to spend he tends to make a mess of it - Bily, Beattie, AJ, possibly Yakubu etc. He has definitely suffered in buying a decent striker, elsewhere he has been really successful but he has bought a succession of fairly ineffective strikers, which is really holding us back. That being said, those failings have definitely been more than outweighed by the unbelievable bargains he has unearthed in Arteta, Cahill, Coleman, Pienaar etc. The thing that really cheeses me this season is the defence, we NEVER keep a clean sheet and yet Moyes puts out the same team every week. Distin is the common denominator for not keeping clean sheets, he usually plays well but he still has a disturbing tendency of playing everyone onside and not doing enough to get a block in. Surely by now Moyes should have given Heitinga and Jags a go together, how could they possibly do any worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Moyse plays 4-5-1 because it is the system that best suits the players at his disposal, its as simple as that Moyse has done an absolutely unbeleivable job at Everton and that is why he is regarded so highly in the game and he has more than earnt himself a shot at a big club. Sir Alex Ferguson knows a hell of a lot more about football than you or I and if he thinks he's good enough to be his successor then I think that speaks volumes Couldn't disagree more. It suited the players he had in 2005, apart from Cahill I cant think of a single playerin the squad now who thrives in a 4-5-1, he's stuck to what he knows and hasn't adapted at all. We haven't got a single striker capable of playing up front effectively on his own. Beckford and Saha both work best playing alongside another striker for different reasons, yet Moyes still persists with Saha up top and only throwing beckford on for the odd 10 or 15 minutes. We don't have enough pace to break from midfield to support a lone striker, to me it's blatantly obvious we work best in a 4-4-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Lets all be honest anyway, we can sit here and moan about Moyes, but its Kenwright thats the problem not Moyes, Kenwright is rapidly becoming a cancer that is eating away at our club. Couldnt put it any better myself, the only person who cant see that is Kenwright himself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmc25 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Couldn't disagree more. It suited the players he had in 2005, apart from Cahill I cant think of a single playerin the squad now who thrives in a 4-5-1, he's stuck to what he knows and hasn't adapted at all. We haven't got a single striker capable of playing up front effectively on his own. Beckford and Saha both work best playing alongside another striker for different reasons, yet Moyes still persists with Saha up top and only throwing beckford on for the odd 10 or 15 minutes. We don't have enough pace to break from midfield to support a lone striker, to me it's blatantly obvious we work best in a 4-4-2 It suited the platers we had for the last 5 seasons in fact, not just 2005, it's only this season we've struggled and it's nothing to do with 451, we've played equally ineffectivly in a 442 as well, the mentality of the players is the problem not the system. As for Hafnia suggesting 352, when has that ever been successful in the Premier League? Steve McLaren (amongst others) tried it disastrously from memory, no protection down the flanks and virtually nothing going forward. Our defence already can't keep a clean sheet and you want to weaken it further. 451 will work if the players actually ran about and tried, all you need is a willing runner up front and a positive attitude. It still suits Cahill, Arteta, Fellaini, Osman, Rodwell the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 It suited the platers we had for the last 5 seasons in fact, not just 2005, it's only this season we've struggled and it's nothing to do with 451, we've played equally ineffectivly in a 442 as well, the mentality of the players is the problem not the system. As for Hafnia suggesting 352, when has that ever been successful in the Premier League? Steve McLaren (amongst others) tried it disastrously from memory, no protection down the flanks and virtually nothing going forward. Our defence already can't keep a clean sheet and you want to weaken it further. 451 will work if the players actually ran about and tried, all you need is a willing runner up front and a positive attitude. It still suits Cahill, Arteta, Fellaini, Osman, Rodwell the best. Totally agree. We havent got a single decent striker at the club so how can people want to see three of them on the pitch at the same time? And nogs do you not think that Fellaini's best position is as a defensive midfielder in a 4-5-1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 When we had Yobo and Jags together we were keeping loads of clean sheets, our defensive record since Lescott left and we stopped playing Yobo has been nothing short of abysmal. I think Yobo is a far better defender than Distin, he just went through a bad patch. I agree with most of what you are saying Dunc, as usual, but Moyes tactics have to be questioned. I've always been a big believer in Moyes and he has done an unbelievable job, but his substitutions have always been way too late and usually poor, his tactical acumen seems virtually non-existent, as in we keep letting in cheap goals, we don't vary our play or tempo. He has built a very good team but when he does have options he doesn't know how to use them, we always do better in a crisis when backs are against the wall. Also, I agree with some posters about success in the market, in general he has done brilliantly, the worry is when he does have big money to spend he tends to make a mess of it - Bily, Beattie, AJ, possibly Yakubu etc. He has definitely suffered in buying a decent striker, elsewhere he has been really successful but he has bought a succession of fairly ineffective strikers, which is really holding us back. That being said, those failings have definitely been more than outweighed by the unbelievable bargains he has unearthed in Arteta, Cahill, Coleman, Pienaar etc. The thing that really cheeses me this season is the defence, we NEVER keep a clean sheet and yet Moyes puts out the same team every week. Distin is the common denominator for not keeping clean sheets, he usually plays well but he still has a disturbing tendency of playing everyone onside and not doing enough to get a block in. Surely by now Moyes should have given Heitinga and Jags a go together, how could they possibly do any worse? I would agree with you on Bily and and Beattie but I think AJ was a success at Everton. He was what we needed at the time but we evolved as a team and moved him on for a profit so its a bit harsh to say that was a bad signing. As for Yak he was a success initially but he has reverted to type and looked to move on after 18 months like he always does. I also think that you are being a little bit harsh on Distin because I think nect to Baines he has been our best defender this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Totally agree. We havent got a single decent striker at the club so how can people want to see three of them on the pitch at the same time? And nogs do you not think that Fellaini's best position is as a defensive midfielder in a 4-5-1? Not really no - I think he's good enough to play the anchor role in a 4-4-2 giving the other three in midfield the freedom to get forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) Agreed we have to play with 4-5-1 because we simply just dont have the midfeild good enough to only play 4 and a good enough defence for that matter they need all the help they can get at the back, taking a man out of midfeild would be disastrous! We played that against blackpool didnt we the old 4-4-2 and conceded 3 goals, ok we scored 5 but that wouldnt happen against any half decent organised side in the premier league. We dont have the midfeild strength to play 4-4-2 infact we are not good enough in any department to play 4-4-2 our defence isnt good enough neither is our midfeild and our strikers are average. I can see where people are coming from though when they say we dont have the pace etc to support the lone frontman with a 4-5-1 etc. I admire Beckford I think he is a great striker in terms of his movement pace etc, but I have to admit he cant play on his own up top. I raised a point last summer about the hunt for a striker that can play the lone front man, who would you say is a perfect player for the lone frontman position, I think Romey may have said Yakubu at the time actually.. which isnt a bad shout to be fair! Edited March 15, 2011 by blueboy122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 yakubu when he can be arsed is a fantastic lone front man..just sadly he can't usually be arsed..out of what we have left saha has the talent to hold the ball up but is knocked off a bit too easy at times..vic has the strength to hold it up but not really the talent to do much with it after..and beckford really does need someone to play and run off..4-5-1 is good when cahill is there cos he hustles for 90 minutes and acts as a midfielder and striker which would maybe give beckford the partner he needs i just don't think cahill is a good enough football to play him in often enough..it's a tricky one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Agree thats why i am sort of in two minds into which tatic I would play, Tims work rate and billys technical ability would be a dream for beckford! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.