paul

Thinking about it though is that not more of a reason why we should do it? It is essentially a safer way to stand upin front of the seat. This was done v Fiorentina, v Chelsea, and for large part sin Derbys and Man U. These are all more mad matches, whereas this would let it happen for your normal matches as well. So if its ok for the big games then its ok for the normal games. So as it does happen for the mad games anyway shouldn't we have it done safely just in case anyone can find a problem with it? I suppose the attitude of Everton, well all clubs to be fair, is that they're hiding behind the fact that you're not meant stand anyway? But Fans do, so therefore they should aim to make it as safe as possible. The two Merseyside clubs should really be the first to introduce it. How bad does it look on the 2 clubs if we are the last to improve safety?

Your part about the views seem to be covered:- Problem: 1.1 This hardcore of 200-300 fans aren't able to persistantly stand up in front of their seat due to being told to sit down by fans on the last row who cannot see half the pitch due to obstructed views when they stand. Without standing there is rarely singing. Solution: 2.3 No tickets to be sold on the last row (QQ) of the singing area as you cannot see half the pitch when stood there (see also 3.5) That would be 30 tickets not sold. Whats our average attendance? Youre just talking about the Derby match but people stand up for that anyway so it'll make no odds for that match. I think an important bit is whether supporting your club vocally is important or not. Fans are attracted to atmosphere and so would go the match more or even support a team because of it. It's not a terraced area actually looking at it, its seats with a barrier so its separate to Hilllsbrough. Wasn't the main issue over that due to policing and ticketing that the Justice people are concerned with rather than justice over terracing?

Anyone seen this petition? It's about giving an area for fans who like to sing a place for them to go. It looks to be based on those German barriers in front of seats so that you can stand up but still satisfy the all seater rule http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/standupifyoulovetheblues/ Every little bit that we can do to try and inspire the team is surely a good thing!

Sounds class! Any other good ones from then?

Oh no, I really respect that song. That's been sung properly at the match by them for about 100 years! For that reason alone, I like it.

I remember the 'ooh its a corner' one! When Hinchcliffe used to whip them in for Dunc! The foreign ones are like a mass of noise with a tune that goes on for half an hour! They sound intense though! Feeling bad about picking 2 United songs now! I blame them them being on the tele!

So what's everyone's favourite song that other teams sung that we've never had a version of? I've always liked Millwall's one: No one likes us we don't care, We are Millwall, Super Millwall, We are Millwall from the den Chelsea: One man went to mow, went to mow a meadow Their words are bit silly but it sounds good when they sing it Arsenal's old one to 'Cant take my eyes off you': We love you Ljungberg and if its quite alright, We need you Ljungberg in the Redand White... And Finally Man U Forever and ever, we'll follow our team, we are United, the Busby Babes, For we won't be mastered, by who, by you Cockney.....etc! And finally Man U again Ryan Giggs, Ryan Giggs, riding through the Glen, Ryan Giggs, Ryan Giggs with his band of men As far as I know we've never had a song to any of those tunes. So they'd be my first choice tunes for any new Everton Songs! What about everyone elses faves?

What about business sense? As in cut costs?

Again assumption it will be great. (Interesting avatar for this debate by the way!)

I am reserving judgement on the quality of the stadium! I'm not going round saying that we shouldn't groundshare because it will be a rubbish stadium? However, people have argued in favour of it, saying that it will be a quality stadium! There is nothing to say that it will be a great stadium.

I'm sure people said that about Kirkby, and believed it when people were trying to sell that, but after that fiasco, for fans to yet again fall for the 'it will be a great stadium' propaganda is just silly. Reserve any judgement and exclude quality of the stadium until there is further evidence.

Which is why I'm saying, why use quality as a selling point in favour of the argument? Is it therefore acceptable for me to argue against the groundshare under the assumption that it will be total rubbish?

The point is, is that people are trying to sell this groundshare on the basis that it will be a great stadium when there is no evidence to back this argument up.

That still doesn't mean that they won't find ways to make the stadium cheaper does it? So that both clubs can save money again. Until you see plans don't assume that it will be a great stadium.

Why are people assuming that just because you share you are guranteed a good stadium? Companies will always look to cut costs. There's no guantees it would be goodso can we nip this theory in the bud until plans are made please?

One concern with this talk about the town not being able to cope with 50,000 is that the club would just build say a 42,000 stadium there. I wouldn't want us to cut our nose off despite our face as the saying goes.

4-0 away to Newcastle in 1996, I cant remember that one, I should do though, who scored? Btw I do have the tape don't know where it is though probably in my dads loft it had commentary from all the games plus the fans singing We shall not be moved

Fair point about the air circulation, not needed in England though! The other stadium (Sporting Lisbon's) seems good although I would prefer the upper to overhang the lower tier more. Better than Kirkby though easily!

On the left side stand it appears that the executive boxes are doubled up. Why can't Everton do that so that we don't have to have them in the End Stands?

I don't know if it is just one end that doesn't go to the roof. It is one poor aspect of an otherwise very good stadium from what I can see. It's not a good feature that it doesn't go to the roof because this will not be good for the acoustics and also means that you will have a small and open end stand. Increase the End Stand to the roof and its a winner!

Thanks for putting them up. If they extend that End Stand to the same height as the roof then it'll do me fine!

Cant tell what Porto's stadium is like from that picture. Any better pictures of it?

No. We will be the meffs in their stadium. What next share kits to save money? Lets just have our own ground eh! It may make sense to the shareholders and the accountants but it doesn't make sense to the fans. A shared stadium will be associated with Liverpool. Look at their exposure compared to ours. It is not equal in the slightest. We're not tramps. Let's have some pride.

Do you have the facility to copy any of those dvd's or videos? There a couple of your older ones I'd be interested in watching

Imagine how intimidating it would be then if we had a stadium designed properly for atmosphere. In the main the atmosphere is absolutely rubbish in Goodison, and it's to do with the poor design which inhibits the fans from standing up, and it's to do with the poor acoustics.