nogs

Thinking exactly the same. Struggling to see where the 'progress' is. This is abysmal in every department.

Richarlison doesn't like the physical side enough to play CF, he goes down under the aerial challenge too much

If Sigurdsson doesn't improve I'd sub him for DCL at half time, stick Richarlison out wide coz once again he's anonymous up front, and play Bernard off the front. Impressed with Lookman so far, makes you wonder how Walcott has had so many games.

Fuck off Zouma that is embarrassing, so fucking weak

We're a mess at the back. Why had Zouma come so far out to the left then? Coleman left Fraser in acres but he had to fill in the space in the middle.

If you're talking about Rashford, he has played nearly 100 times for Man Utd and has 31 senior England caps. Nothing limited about that.

Might not be able to after we leave the EU.

My point Palfy is that Everton FC is not getting a slice of the cake. We have the longest history in English top flight football, but in the Premier League era, the age of mass imports of the best players from abroad, we've been also rans. Yes it's the best league in the world, but we don't win anything, so I say look at every way possible to improve how competitive we are, including what can be done to improve our conversion rate of promising youngsters into elite professionals.

He signed for Liverpool in 2010 as a 16 year old first year scholar.

Having the best U18 and U23 sides in the country doesn't mean much if a) we have a mediocre first team and b) we aren't using those assets for maximum effect from a business perspective, i.e. Bringing as many of them through as possible as elite players that carry a high transfer possible. I'd be very disappointed if that wasn't a priority for Brands. And as for mentioning United, well Rashford and Lingard look pretty decent to me, Liverpool have brought through Sterling (sold for £50m, we got £15m for Barkley) and now Alexander-Arnold, Spurs Kane, Winks, Walker-Peters has played a bit and another young midfielder has been playing recently... Its not all about City and Chelsea buying their way to glory, and that's not a model we can hope of competing with anyway.

But that's exactly the problem, the progression routes are all wrong. But why should we be shrugging our shoulders and saying 'that's the way it is' when there's an area we could gain an advantage on our rivals? If Chelsea and Man City are losing their best youngsters to European teams - and the biggest ones too, by the way - shouldn't teams like Everton be thinking 'hang on, there's an opportunity here'? As Steve said, the reason why is the thinking is just too short term, from fans, the media and through to the boards. And as for Barca etc having to sacrifice league places for playing youngsters - look at their record, and Real Madrid's, for bringing academy graduates into the first team over the past decade or more, and what they have won between them.

I did Steve, second paragraph. Like I said, the model is abroad. And it's not just an Everton problem, look at all the debate around Chelsea right now. And in terms of building a sustainable business, Man City losing players like Jadon Sancho and Brahim Diaz for peanuts is a major blow.

Pete and Steve - why does it have to be just the Premier League? Teams all over Europe do a far, far better job at developing youth than most top flight English clubs, and guess what, English clubs fall over themselves to pay top whack for those very same players. Why shouldn't we aim for that model? That's exactly what I hope Brands was brought in for. And Pete - I'm not talking about academy graduates playing pro football in the lower leagues. I know how well represented we are in that regard. Thats precisely my point - why are more of those not making it at the very top level? Because if we were talking Barca, Real Madrid, Benfica, Sporting, Porto, Monaco, Ajax, PSV etc etc, it would be a much higher proportion.

Big Nev and not got one at minute, Baines or Coleman but that's based on them 5 years ago so don't think it counts.

My gripe has always been that not enough of our most promising youngsters end up having anything like a decent career with us. People can shrug their shoulders and say well, our kids just aren't good enough, but it isn'tt just about talent, it's about coaching, having the right kind of development pathways and culture in place. From where I sit, there are clubs that do all that much better than us, and from both a football and business perspective I think we're missing a trick. I really, really hope that is high on Brands' list of priorities for how to take the club forward and that his appointment to the board is partly based on him saying look, the footballing structure of this club is all wrong, this is what needs to be done to fix it, give me time and give me authority and I'll get it done.

Eh?

Bailey - how is saying 'Ossie wasn't shite' 'romanticising' him?? And you say 'he was fantastic 50% of a season' - well in what world does being fantastic 19 games out of 38 in the Premier League over a decade not make you a very good player? Not world class, not top 4 material maybe, but very good? I think Steve has it bang on talking about the demand for instant success. Where the fuck does that come from? You don't click your fingers and win league titles and cups, you don't get youngsters becoming superstars when fans scream 'shite' coz they find it hard to adapt to elite football, you don't start calling for a managers head after half a season in charge without turning into a tin pot outfit like Nottingham Forest who have fuck all chance of getting back 'where they belong' until they ditch their idiotic sense of entitlement and realise that success comes from planning, painstaking work, patience and perseverance.

Ha yeah pal whatever. Think the comparison with Ossie is useful though - shows its ridiculous to write a player off at 21. What was Ossie doing at that age? He was on loan at Carlisle, and I bet plenty of Everton fans had put him in the 'not good enough' category by then. He went on to play more than 350 games for Everton, enough said.

Really? Looks an old fashioned winger for me.

Superb tonight, shown flashes off the bench before but terrified Derby all night. Also think a certain Adam Forshaw has been excellent in the middle of the park...

It took Man City four years to win the title from Mansour buying them. Moshiri has been here three already. We're very much going for the Spurs model and we're still streets behind that.

No for me. He's undoubtedly talented but what we need right now is reliable, 7/10 every week footballers. He is the absolute epitome of hot and cold, even for a striker.

Yeah I agree Steve and NY, I think Gana, Gomes and Sigurdsson all have good attributes individually I'm just not sure they fit together. Still, if Sig could be persuaded to play a little bit deeper it would help, I think part of our problem is we always have four players who want to stick in advanced positions, when your full backs like to plough forward to you're going to get exposed.

Given that none of our wingers are great at tracking back I'd play three in midfield and let them cover the full backs.

I'd say all the negativity is more to do with people watching a team in transition and expecting more than was ever really likely this season. We all hate losing, we all get frustrated watching us play shit, but the honest truth is we haven't got the players, squad or system of playing to be doing much better. We've been treading water on the pitch for five years, big changes have happened behind the scenes and mistakes have been made. We shouldn't sit back and accept one win in eight but there has to be some patience, let's talk about our prospects for Europe next January hey.