BoroBlue

Jags and Distin - Distin has to be in there as he is our only physically imposeing CB and I think this is needed as was shown by the way Leon Best bullied our defence in the first half. Jags I think is a better defender than Heitinga, the worry has been his recent form but what has Heitinga done in the last year and a half? Capped off by an abysmal performance last weekend.

Why? is it David Moyes is one of the most respected managers in the game if most fans know the tactical side of the game better than he does?

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/880998-everton-duelling-with-stoke-for-barnsley-ace-jacob-butterfield

Posted the following in another topic a couple of weeks ago but didn't seem to get much interest so didn't bother continuing with it but if people are interested will keep checking the forums and fansites and posting update?. Thought it might be good to keep an eye on the players out on loan at the moment. Anything anyone has seen, read or heard abut them would be usefull. This is from what i have read on the clubs forums. Luke Garbutt - On loan at Cheltenham - 2 assists in 2 games and seems to be getting rave reviews from their fans, particularly his pace and crossing ability while being solid at the back. Jose Baxter - On Loan at Tranmere - 2 goals and 2 assists in 4 games aswell as picking up man of the match in 2 games. Playing in the hole just off the striker and playing well by the sounds of things. Fans on the forums talking about his creative influence, Les Parrry talking about changeing the way they play to get him on the ball more, can't be bad. Shane Duffy - On loan at Scunthorpe - Most fans seem to be very negative about there own teams performances but general consesus seems to be that Shane is playing well and getting better every game. Played 7 games now and sounds like hes having plenty of defending to do so should be great experience. Joao Silva - On loan at Vitoria Setubal - 2 goals and 4 games sounds good but can find very little else about him.

I have made my peace with being a selling club, but not a feeder club. Football is business, and it appears in the modern game only those invested in by foreign millions can afford not to be a selling club. Obviously if someone offers crazy money for a top young player we would be forced to sell but that could be said of anyone (see Cristiano Ronaldo), but I don't think we are in such a position where we are forced to sell our top young players cheaply. If being a selling club means we have to sell players in there late 20's while we can still get a decent fee for them rather than letting there contracts run down and keeping them for a few more years then thats fine, aslong as we keep producing good young players from our academy, bringing in good young players from smaller/feeder clubs, and giving them a chance in the first team then I have no problem with.

1. What are your thoughts on Saturday’s game? What team is Moyes likely to select and what formation will he adopt? What weaknesses in United’s team will Moyes look to exploit? Very Worried, I get the feeling we will pay the price for Uniteds derby defeat last weekend. The optimist in me says if we get at United and try and exploit there "soft core" as the media are calling it we can come away with something, but the realist in me knows a wounded Man United is a dangerous animal. We will likely go with a 4-5-1 as this is what we do in every game, my worry is that we overload the midfield with defensive players and employ the park-the-bus mentality inviting pressure on ourselves. 2. What are your thoughts on Everton’s start to the season? Every year I hope we will start off the season like we finished the last, every year I am left dissapointed, this season is no different. 3. Tell us about the potential of Ross Barkley? He has impressed on the limited amount I’ve seen him, however is being over-hyped? Or is he a special talent? Are you worried about losing him? I watched him play against Villareal in pre-season in one of the first games since his triple leg break. That 60minutes was enough to convince me that lad is going to be special. Our senior players looked to be trying to give him the ball at every opportunity and despite never having played a senior game for us he seemed to have established himself as the key creative player within the team. He must be pretty special in training to have that sort of status within the squad already, to back this up Tim Cahill described him as the most talented player he had ever seen in training. His technique and physical attributes are enough to make him a top player bu twhat will take him to the next level is his vision and reading of the game, he has that ability to drift into spaces undetected and pick passes that other players just don't see. 4. Similar to Barkley, Rodwell received plenty of attention when he burst on the scene. Has injury and selected in different positions stunted his development? Has he stagnated? How has he started the season? Do you believe he will fulfil his potential? Injury and being played out-of position, notably on the wing, has led to some people saying he is not the player we thought he would be. Arteta leaving has given him an opportunity to prove these people wrong and from what I have seen of him this season he is certainly doing that, before that moron Martin Atkinson robbed us in the derby by sending Rodwell off I thought he looked our best player. Rodwell and Felliani should be the core that we build the team around and as mentioned by Matt the prospect of these 2 and Barkley playing together gives me reason to be optimistic. 5. David Moyes is approaching his tenth anniversary as Everton manager. What are your thoughts on his ten years as a whole? What are your current thoughts? What does the future hold for him as Everton manager? What he has done with the team on a limited budget over the last 10 years has been remarkable, the man is a legend. But I worry for the future under Moyes. We missed our opportunity to establish ourselves as one of the divisons elite 2 or 3 years ago when we had our best squad since the 80's IMO. Since then we have sold players and are left with no money and an ageing squad, fighting for our status as the best of the rest. For me we need to sell some of the older members of the squad while we can still get decent fees for them and rebuild the team around the likes of Felliani, Rodwell and Barkley. Ferguson has proved to be the master at this in the past, everytime a team has overtaken United Fergie has rebuilt (often temporarily weakening the team to do so) and come back stronger, my hope is that Moyes can emulate his fellow Scot and do the same for us.

8 defensive players and 3 attacking players, if this is considered a bold move by Moyes it doesn't say alot for our usual style of play

I really hope we do not play Vellios up front with Saha as has been suggested. I think if we did this they would be isolated up top forceing them to drop deep where they would be inneffective or we would just play hoofball to them hopeing for the best. Would love to see Vellios playing upfront on his own with Barkley playing just off him in the hole and Ossie and Bily playing either side in support, Felli and Rodwell playing deep and providing cover for the defence and Coleman and Baines playing as attacking full backs.

http://www.bluekipper.com/players/something_fishy/3405-everton_target_rodriguez.html Would love this to happen. Top scorer for Burnley last season and goal of the season for the championship. Is also known for his hold up play and ability to bring others into play. Would be perfect for the way we play. Is young (22) English and an under-21 international.

Joao Silva - Now has 3 goals and 1 assist in 6 appearences in the portuguese top flight, not bad going, hope he continues to impress and improve then gets given a chance next year.

If McFadden plays, they will be minutes on the pitch that could be used to develop one of the young lads, if he doen't play then whats the point in bringing him in. If he is higher up in the pecking order than Gueye or Vellios then yes he will take playing time off them, if he is not then we really don't need hm as these lads barely get any playing time as it is so he will get none, again pointless. Moyes isn't going to come out and say McFaddens arrival will limit young players time on the pitch, but that is a biproduct of having a larger squad. Any players we bring n should improve the squad, I just don't feel McFadden does that.

So on the negative side he isn't an improvement on what we have, he is costing the club money in wages, and he is hindering the development of promising youngsters by limiting there game time. But on the plus side he isn't the worst player on our books. Well thats me sold, come on Fadders! Just to add to the negativity the guy hasn't played a competitve game for over a year after a serious injury, many players have failed to come back the same player after an injury like that and I didn't rate him too highly before the injury. I think he represents the same risk if not more than the likes of Gueye or Vellios, but not for the same reward should the risk pay off.

This is what I posted earlier outlining what I see the negatives of this deal. So far the only positive anyone seems to have come up with is that it is an extra player, which I really don't see as much of a positive. Sunderland are a great example of a team with quantity over quality. If I am to grow up and start seeing the positives, someones going to have to tell me what they are, because I really can't see any.

I'm saying your post could be percieved as a racist comment by someone with less faith in a fellow blue than myself, you know like pot calling kettle black (no pun intended).

Interesting post from someone who says Suarez is a racist rat.

I just don't see the point. Is he any better than what we have already got? No Will he cost us anything? Yes, even if he is on relatively low wages of 10k per week thats still 500k in a year for nothing, or in other words Vellios + Coleman + 100k. Do we have any good young players in his position? Yes, Baxter, Gueye, Barkley and Vellios spring to mind, these guys could find there appearences even more limited by the arrival of McFadden hampering there development. The one thing we have going for us at the moment is the quality of youth development here and the reputation for giving youngsters a go, but this will only disgruntle the talented youngsters at the club and put off any thinking of joining, if we would rather take a risk on a 28 year old who has never quite cut it at this level than take a risk on a young play. McFadden will never move this club forward, the likes of Vellios, Gueye, Barkley an Baxter will if they are developed properly. Rant over, frustrations vented, good luck to you James, I hope you prove me wrong, COYB!

Injury prone player past his best and probably on decent wages pushing a very talented young frenchman further down the order, seems like a good move to me.

Thought it might be good to keep an eye on the players out on loan at the moment. Anything anyone has seen, read or heard abut them would be usefull. This is from what i have read on the clubs forums. Luke Garbutt - On loan at Cheltenham - 2 assists in 2 games and seems to be getting rave reviews from their fans, particularly his pace and crossing ability while being solid at the back. Jose Baxter - On Loan at Tranmere - 2 goals and 2 assists in 4 games aswell as picking up man of the match in 2 games. Playing in the hole just off the striker and playing well by the sounds of things. Fans on the forums talking about his creative influence, Les Parrry talking about changeing the way they play to get him on the ball more, can't be bad. Shane Duffy - On loan at Scunthorpe - Most fans seem to be very negative about there own teams performances but general consesus seems to be that Shane is playing well and getting better every game. Played 7 games now and sounds like hes having plenty of defending to do so should be great experience. Joao Silva - On loan at Vitoria Setubal - 2 goals and 4 games sounds good but can find very little else about him.

I agree with playing to our strengths but don't think playing 2 upfront really does that as I think most woul agree this our weakest position. I would also play 4-2-3-1 with Felli and Rodders playing deep allowing the full backs and 3 midielders infront more of a license to attack. I also think this would allow the likes of Bily and Osman to play more central bringing out the best in them with Baines and Coleman providing the width. Would also like to see Vellios as the lone striker, really impressed with him and think hes only going to get better. I would like to see: Howard Coleman Jagielka Distin Baines Felliani Rodwell Osman Barkley Bilyaletdinov Vellios

I would point out the clearance over the goal from 2 yards out when the ball was whipped in with pace with a striker lurking at far post as a classic example of why he does make mistakes, for me he saved a certain goal there but could have quite easily put the ball in the back of his own net making himself the villain, how many defenders would have left that for the keeper to deal with and been left shrugging there shoulders when the ball was in the back of the net. If you make last ditch tackles and blocks and put everything on the line like Jags does you are going to make mistakes (although I will admit if his positioning was better he would not be required to make so many last ditch tackles). I wrote the following in another topic a while back and still stand by it, although I agree his form this year has been poor and no player should be untouchable, I would be reluctant to drop him just yet. I don't think its a coincidence that Jags seems to bring the best out of his CB partner, I think its down to the fact he is a very good organiser and a real leader of the back 4. The Lescott-Yobo partnership you mentioned, as I remember it when they played together at CB they were fairly shakey which ultimately led to Baines being dropped around Christmas time in his first season and Lescott moved to leftback. My memory may be decieving me but when Jags came into that back 4 they looked far more solid and he brought the best out in Yobo. Then Lescott was moved to CB to partner Jags to form a superb partnership (described by Alex Ferguson as second only to the Rio-Vidic partnership) which then led to Lescott being sold to Man City for a whopping 24m, where he then fell apart as a CB. The only time Lescott has looked like a 24m CB since was the 2 games he partnered Jags for England last year. Finally the Distin-Jags partnership which IMO has untill this season looked pretty solid (45goals conceded last season, only the top 3 conceded less than 43). When Distin came to the club most fans were pretty sceptical but is now considered by most it seems as a better cb than Jags, like I said I don't think any of this is a coincidence. I completely agree that he is in poor form at the moment but I think what he adds to the team is invaluable and calls to drop him may be abit premature, just my opinion though.

Shocking decision, not even a foul let alone a red card. Rodwell had been superb up to that point IMO.

Check Football Manager 2011, or even better 2012 when it comes out next month, probably more accurate than whats in the papers.

Cheers for that mate looks a useful website. I agree with you about the derby aswell, but looking at the results it wasn't untill the new year when we started picking up wins, which was when Jags came back. Like I said this may just be coincidence but I don't think we were better defensively when he was injured, as the results show.

Obviously a difference of opinion there then mate but I will just point out that Jags was injured for the last 2-3 games of the 2008-09 season and the first half of the 2009-10 season, in which time our form was pretty abysmal to be honest using different combinations of Yobo, Distin and Heitinga at the back (Lescott was sold at the beginning of the 2009-10 season). The upturn in form happened after Christmas and coincided the return of Jags when we lost just 2 of our last 20 games in the prem, coincidence maybe, but the facts don't really support the theory that our defence is better without Jags.

I don't think its a coincidence that Jags seems to bring the best out of his CB partner, I think its down to the fact he is a very good organiser and a real leader of the back 4. The Lescott-Yobo partnership you mentioned, as I remember it when they played together at CB they were fairly shakey which ultimately led to Baines being dropped around Christmas time in his first season and Lescott moved to leftback. My memory may be decieving me but when Jags came into that back 4 they looked far more solid and he brought the best out in Yobo. Then Lescott was moved to CB to partner Jags to form a superb partnership (described by Alex Ferguson as second only to the Rio-Vidic partnership) which then led to Lescott being sold to Man City for a whopping 24m, where he then fell apart as a CB. The only time Lescott has looked like a 24m CB since was the 2 games he partnered Jags for England last year. Finally the Distin-Jags partnership which IMO has untill this season looked pretty solid (45goals conceded last season, only the top 3 conceded less than 43). When Distin came to the club most fans were pretty sceptical but is now considered by most it seems as a better cb than Jags, like I said I don't think any of this is a coincidence. I completely agree that he is in poor form at the moment but I think what he adds to the team is invaluable and calls to drop him may be abit premature, just my opinion though.