nogs Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 What a difference a few months make. In May we were being hailed in all quarters as 'the best of the rest' in the Premiership, the model everyone else should be following in trying to break the dominance of the top four. Now we're out of Europe, out the Carling Cup, and with a potential managers-first-game banana skin against Newcastle and games against Arsenal and Man Utd to come, we could seriously be looking at being bottom six in prem by start of November. Shades of 05/06 aplenty. Actually, I started this thread because I wanted to talk about the similarities with three seasons ago, because I think it says a lot about our club under Moyes and the current board. It isn't just the bad results that are reminiscent of 05/06 - just like this season, back then the word 'panic buy' was bandied around plenty as we ended a very underwhelming close season in the transfer market with a few last minute additions, we'd lost our most influential player in the middle of the park, the defence suddenly became leaky , etc. etc. Where am I going with this? Well i think the common denominator between now and three years ago is confidence. I think its no coincidence we're on another bad run like back then - we're a confidence team, and Moyes is a confidence manager. When things go our way, we're the sort of side that gets on a role and wins five, six on the bounce - equally, when things don't go so well, we tend to go on a slide that we find it difficult to drag ourselves out of, like at the moment. And I think that's a flaw not just in our make-up as a team, but in Moyes' managerial approach as well. There's nothing wrong with the us-v-them, fight-for-eachother mentality Moyes has used so successfully at times - Mourinho won two titles at Chelsea and a Champions League at Porto doing just that. The difference is, Chelsea have two teams worth of world class players to pick from and can sign reinforcements at will - it means confidence is never knocked in the way it has been in the past few months at Goodison Park over worries about squad strength/not finding the right quality players to come in. We are always walking a tightrope confidence wise - a few bad results, we don't have the squad to turn it around, the fans start getting disquiet over off-the-field activity, it quickly transmits through to the players. And the stark fact is, when our heads drop, when we stop harrying and harrassing teams, when communication, discipline and organisation are shaken, when we have the stuffing knocked out of us, we look very ordinary as a football team. I started off by asking what now for Everton FC. Well I for one don't want Moyes to go. He's still a young manager with potentially another 20 years to go in the profession - he's only a third of his way through his career, so his best is yet to come, and I want his best to be with us. Besides, I don't think we'd get any better. But what he needs to do is have a good long hard look at himself. He needs to ask why he has let what happened in 05/06 happen again, analyse it, and learn from the mistakes. He has to ask himself if he really wants this, because moping around is going to do nothing. if he does, fine - get the contract signed, and start building again. If he doesn't - well, we can't do anything about that, so it'll be thanks a lot Davey, and goodbye. But whoever the manager is, they cannot affect what is going on in terms of transfer funds, investment, stadium moves etc. etc. We forget that as fans sometimes. All the manager can do is work with the resources available to him and do the best he can with them. Moyes has had periods of excelling with limited resources, and times, like now, over underperforming. We need to be more consistent, and to do that we've got to improve the quality of our football. We were woefully outplayed by Liverpool, and Liege were far better organised, far better in their movement, much better at moving the ball around, and much more dangerous. Obviously at minute we need to sort the defence out, but we also need to pass the ball better, play with more width, press space in midfield better, play with more pace and zip. At moment, we look a million miles away from being a champions league team, and to me thats as much to do with the tactics and style of football the manager employs as it is size/quality of the squad. Sorry, this has become much longer than I thought it would. What you all reckon? I dont think there is enough talk on these forums about FOOTBALL, and how we should be playing it. I'm all for throwing kids like Rodwell and Baxter in, injecting pace and energy, and looking to youngsters down the leagues with a bit of energy, a bit of flair, and a hunger to make a name for themselves. Coached in the right way, an 18 year old with good touch, the ability to pass a ball and a good football brain can become a great player by 25 - thats how we used to recruit players, why is it all about splashing 10s of millions we dont have on foreigners? We need to go back to basics, back to the school of science, inject some life into the weary looking legs of our confidence-starved senior players, and move on. Maybe Moyes isn't right man for the job, I don't know, but I do know we have to snap out of this slump quickly, and stop being so prone to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMONEYone Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 What a difference a few months make. In May we were being hailed in all quarters as 'the best of the rest' in the Premiership, the model everyone else should be following in trying to break the dominance of the top four. Now we're out of Europe, out the Carling Cup, and with a potential managers-first-game banana skin against Newcastle and games against Arsenal and Man Utd to come, we could seriously be looking at being bottom six in prem by start of November. Shades of 05/06 aplenty. Actually, I started this thread because I wanted to talk about the similarities with three seasons ago, because I think it says a lot about our club under Moyes and the current board. It isn't just the bad results that are reminiscent of 05/06 - just like this season, back then the word 'panic buy' was bandied around plenty as we ended a very underwhelming close season in the transfer market with a few last minute additions, we'd lost our most influential player in the middle of the park, the defence suddenly became leaky , etc. etc. Where am I going with this? Well i think the common denominator between now and three years ago is confidence. I think its no coincidence we're on another bad run like back then - we're a confidence team, and Moyes is a confidence manager. When things go our way, we're the sort of side that gets on a role and wins five, six on the bounce - equally, when things don't go so well, we tend to go on a slide that we find it difficult to drag ourselves out of, like at the moment. And I think that's a flaw not just in our make-up as a team, but in Moyes' managerial approach as well. There's nothing wrong with the us-v-them, fight-for-eachother mentality Moyes has used so successfully at times - Mourinho won two titles at Chelsea and a Champions League at Porto doing just that. The difference is, Chelsea have two teams worth of world class players to pick from and can sign reinforcements at will - it means confidence is never knocked in the way it has been in the past few months at Goodison Park over worries about squad strength/not finding the right quality players to come in. We are always walking a tightrope confidence wise - a few bad results, we don't have the squad to turn it around, the fans start getting disquiet over off-the-field activity, it quickly transmits through to the players. And the stark fact is, when our heads drop, when we stop harrying and harrassing teams, when communication, discipline and organisation are shaken, when we have the stuffing knocked out of us, we look very ordinary as a football team. I started off by asking what now for Everton FC. Well I for one don't want Moyes to go. He's still a young manager with potentially another 20 years to go in the profession - he's only a third of his way through his career, so his best is yet to come, and I want his best to be with us. Besides, I don't think we'd get any better. But what he needs to do is have a good long hard look at himself. He needs to ask why he has let what happened in 05/06 happen again, analyse it, and learn from the mistakes. He has to ask himself if he really wants this, because moping around is going to do nothing. if he does, fine - get the contract signed, and start building again. If he doesn't - well, we can't do anything about that, so it'll be thanks a lot Davey, and goodbye. But whoever the manager is, they cannot affect what is going on in terms of transfer funds, investment, stadium moves etc. etc. We forget that as fans sometimes. All the manager can do is work with the resources available to him and do the best he can with them. Moyes has had periods of excelling with limited resources, and times, like now, over underperforming. We need to be more consistent, and to do that we've got to improve the quality of our football. We were woefully outplayed by Liverpool, and Liege were far better organised, far better in their movement, much better at moving the ball around, and much more dangerous. Obviously at minute we need to sort the defence out, but we also need to pass the ball better, play with more width, press space in midfield better, play with more pace and zip. At moment, we look a million miles away from being a champions league team, and to me thats as much to do with the tactics and style of football the manager employs as it is size/quality of the squad. Sorry, this has become much longer than I thought it would. What you all reckon? I dont think there is enough talk on these forums about FOOTBALL, and how we should be playing it. I'm all for throwing kids like Rodwell and Baxter in, injecting pace and energy, and looking to youngsters down the leagues with a bit of energy, a bit of flair, and a hunger to make a name for themselves. Coached in the right way, an 18 year old with good touch, the ability to pass a ball and a good football brain can become a great player by 25 - thats how we used to recruit players, why is it all about splashing 10s of millions we dont have on foreigners? We need to go back to basics, back to the school of science, inject some life into the weary looking legs of our confidence-starved senior players, and move on. Maybe Moyes isn't right man for the job, I don't know, but I do know we have to snap out of this slump quickly, and stop being so prone to them. Great post mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 Excellent 1st post nogs and welcome to the Forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted October 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 Cheers - hey it's much friendlier on here than on Daily Post forum, I just get slagged off on there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 Give them time , theres a few on here who will slag you at sometime for something. Me included. If your posts are all as good as that one you should be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 Cheers - hey it's much friendlier on here than on Daily Post forum, I just get slagged off on there! Give them time , theres a few on here who will slag you at sometime for something. Me included. SHUT UP THE TWO OF YOU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troy8 Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 where do we go now? you know what, i have a feeling all this disappointment could lead to something good. whilst im not that optimistic in terms of who we get for the FA cup, im gonna believe that we're gonna do well in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy the blue Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 (edited) Sorry, this has become much longer than I thought it would. What you all reckon? I dont think there is enough talk on these forums about FOOTBALL, and how we should be playing it. I'm all for throwing kids like Rodwell and Baxter in, injecting pace and energy, and looking to youngsters down the leagues with a bit of energy, a bit of flair, and a hunger to make a name for themselves. Coached in the right way, an 18 year old with good touch, the ability to pass a ball and a good football brain can become a great player by 25 - thats how we used to recruit players, why is it all about splashing 10s of millions we dont have on foreigners? We need to go back to basics, back to the school of science, inject some life into the weary looking legs of our confidence-starved senior players, and move on. Maybe Moyes isn't right man for the job, I don't know, but I do know we have to snap out of this slump quickly, and stop being so prone to them. Smashing post that mate, well thought out and nicely presented. Whilst I don't agree with it all I do accept you have the best interests of our great club at heart. I've been in that Post forum and there are one or two loonies in that place and we've got Bill (only joking William ) welcome on board mate Edited October 3, 2008 by Jimmy the blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 Where now?......I'd say just keep trying to get it right.Most of these players got us 5th place last season.Couple of clean sheets, Moyes signs that contract and get as high as we can in the league.The FA cup who knows! I just want some pride back, a bit of fight, passion for that shirt! We lost two players this season who would never give up Carsley and AJ! That can't have helped. I wonder did some of our BIG players started the season thinking we can't get 4th, but 5th's no problem, I'm on the team sheet every week no problem, think I'll take it easy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Half of them also got improved Contracts with more money. Makes you think doesnt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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