Big Names Not Performing, Should They Be Dropped?

[GMONEYone]

just want to get your opinions on this guys.

 

After another shambolic performance against liege should a couple of our underperforming (STARS??) get dropped for a couple of games as it seems they are guaranteed starting places regardless of performance.

I am aiming this at two of my favourite players that I dont feel have performed for the last 3-4 games ie Arteta and Yakubu.

These are big players for us and just havent cut it, any other teams fighting for the top 6 as we are supposed to be have managers who would make the big decisions and drop these type of players, do we have the manager who will do that?? I dont think so and I think we are starting to suffer for this at the moment.

If it was me I would go to our favoured 4-5-1 and start with the following for the newcastle game:

 

 

HOWARD

NEVILLE,JAGS,YOBO,BAINES

PIENNAR,FELLAINI,CASTILLO,CAHILL,OSMAN

SAHA/ANICHEBE

 

With both arteta and yak on the bench, make them hungry to come on and show us what they can do, and also it would mean someone else can take the corners (my vote is Howard - at least he will beat the first man)ha.

 

Be interested to know what you guys think?

[Romey 1878]

I think some of our big names/Moyes' favourites should be dropped but they won't. Moyes has shown time and time again that he has his favourites and he'll shift everything around (disrupting the team in the meantime) to keep them in the starting 11. Moyes doesn't have the balls.

[nogs]

I'd agree with your team entirely GMoney, except Cahill is out suspended. I agree tho that Arteta needs a kick up the backside, just for hi appalling corner taking if for nothing else. How about giving Rodwell a game in there? I'm also unsure how Saha would do as lone striker, but don't think Anichebe has got enough goals in him - how about Saha playing off Anichebe in the Cahill role? I'd also like to see Baxter get on the pitch at weekend - play him in that Cahill role for 20 mins and see what he can do

[Jimmy the blue]

I agree that Arteta needs a kick up the arse, stoppingf him from taking every dead ball would help as he can't beat the first man half the time.

[troy8]

yeah but we put arteta on the bench, next day we'll get a call from athletico interested in buying him in january....

[The Regulator]

I'd like to think it's the constant reshuffling of the squad that is making things worse. Jags started the season in midfield, moving round the pitch until settling into CB. Phil Neville is being used as utility, half a match as a mid half a match as an RB, Lescott is being used between LB and CB, Anichebe is being thrown around right midfield, right wing and CF, Cahill and Arteta both as well being thrown into different positions.

 

I don't think it's under performing, but look at any team who have a solid starting XI for every game, with changes only minor between weeks. There players know their role in the squad, where they should be on the pitch and when, when to push forward and pull back, and where to position themselves and who to mark when it happens. I think without giving people a solid role and position to work with they can't develop a pattern. And it's self evident. Jagielka has been our best player thus far, and it's because after a rocky start he settled into the centre back position and excelled at it. He know nows where to go on the field, who to look for in passing and who to follow in defending. I think if we settle people down into their roles and where they go on the pitch, passing shooting defending will all come together nicely.

 

Goalkeeping - Nash is yet untested so i don't want him dropped in the deep end but Howard has made glaring errors influenced by but not exclusive to our frankly wank defending. Newcastle is an important game so Howard will start, but over Christmas I'd like to see Nash in a few games and see what he can do. Otherwise, our best is Howard so we have to make do.

 

Defense - Hibbert and Neville are right backs, but hibbert isn't back to match fitness just yet so I think Neville should be our primary right back. he's settled in that position, better at progressing up the field and a solid defender in that position. Hibbert could then come on if moyes is reshuffling the midfield and moves Neville central, just in front of the defense. Centre backs should most definitely be Jags and Lescott. Yes lescott has disappointed but it's because HE'S NOT A LEFT BACK! He can't get back in time, he can't keep up with wingers, he goes to far forward to track back and teams expose us on the counter attack. he may like going forward but too bad. We need a solid defense and until we get confidence he needs to stay back and play in his best position. Yobo i think isn't making a good partnership with Jags and I think having two england hopefuls in central defense might benefit not only the players careers but also their influence and rep on the pitch. Yobo just hasn't been up to standard. I was impressed with Baines at LB and think he should be giving a chance, both him and valente while not being skilled enough to create chances up the field, are solid left backs and capable of shoreing up our woeful defense. If moyes can see that baines has enough pace to track back and push on the attack he'll get the games he deserves.

 

Midfield - 5 with the Yak, 4 in any other formula. Fellaini is obviously not used to being central in a 4-5-1 as he's not a quick mover, he's a steady, storng holding midfieder and needs space to operate, he should be employed if it is in a 4-4-2. If it's 4-5-1 Cahill needs to take that central spot and push forward more. Castillo i believe has great potential and deserves a spot in the 4-5-1 as a defense mid, his capability to go forward was proven against liege in the 1st round. Yes we miss Carsley's simplicity in midfield and his ability to get back, but i think Castillo fulfills that potential and more if given a solid rotation, most likely in away games. Pienaar Arteta and Osman is tricky because moyes plays them all on the sides, I think Osman and Arteta can both pull central so I'd prefer to a 4-5-1 with one of them, either/or paired with cahill just behind the striker, able to actually feed the Yak. pienaar on either side is a threat and his ability to track back is vital, as well as having a deft little cross, he should definately playe every available game.

 

Attack - In 4-5-1 the Yak all the way, making a sub around the 70th minute for Anchiebe or vaughan sacrificing a midfield spoto to allow them space just to the left or right of the Yak as dead ball men. In 4-4-2 I think Saha can have a chance but he is not a partner for Yakubu. Too similar in style of play and positiong they don't benefit each other more cancel each other out, leaving us not scoring anything. Saha amd Vaughn i think would work well vaughns pace and saha's link up play able to create chances, and leave something for the mdifield to mop up should it fail.

 

Overall i think moyes needs to give players cemented roles, knowing your polace and your value means you know you have to earn it, and without the strength in depth of other teams we need to let players know they are necessary every game and where and why. look at Arsenal, out of the big 4 they have the thinnest team, yet they play the most attractive football in the prem and can demolish sides within minutes. More so than man u and chelsea who grind down their opponents with possession, and Liverpool who are just......well shite. Good but shite.

 

Knowing what our team are capable of and how they can maximise their strength is more important than who we've got; Hull are proving that. It isn't about the names in the team it's about how you play them. In the right formation, with the right players in just the right places, we will get 5th easy. How long moyes takes to figure out that magic formula is another problem altogether.

[Jimmy the blue]

yeah but we put arteta on the bench, next day we'll get a call from athletico interested in buying him in january....

 

What about stopping him taking dead ball kicks, his play is fine otherwise

[Blue 250]

Victors improving all the time and Vaughan needs the games.If the Yak wont run to collect his food give one of the lads a chance, at least they will fight for the cause.

 

If we can't drop a player to the bench for fear of him being targeted by other teams, how will fringe players ever get a chance.You could lose a fringe player who's fed up waiting, say Vaughan, and he could go on to be a top striker.

[dark]

yeah but we put arteta on the bench, next day we'll get a call from athletico interested in buying him in january....

 

If he's under contract we could try to hold out. I'm not in favour of dropping Arteta fully but I am in favour of making him aware that we are not afraid to take away his dead-ball duties and permanant place if we need to. We need to be more firm with players. Yakubu for one dosen't look interested at the moment so I think it's time the likes of Baxter and Vaughan had a chance to hit the back of the net.

[carlmc25]

I thought Arteta was poor the other night but you have to remember, he was the only one with any creativity in our team (without Pienaar) and so the opposition were just marking him out of the game knowing without his input we can do nothing. We have such little creativity in the rest of our team we can hardly get the ball to him, I think it may be time to try him in CM in a 451 as the team isn't working at the moment. Maybe for tomorrow we can go back to Arteta and Pienaar on the wings and Osman in the middle, but if that still looks poor then switch Arteta into the middle so at least we have someone who can play a through ball and someone who can get Pienaar on the ball.

 

Yakubu looked totally disinterested the other night, he's seemed content on diving the last few games. Saha looked well off the pace also. I also am getting more and more disappointed with Baines, he started off looking suspect at the back but excellent going forward, now he just looks poor in every department, he needs to get his act together. Players like Yobo really need to step up as well, he's been our best defender for years imo but he's been unbelievably poor this season.

 

Also, I think Anichebe has looked one of our best players this season so I'd get him back in asap.

Edited October 4, 2008 by carlmc25

[Jimmy the blue]

If he's under contract we could try to hold out. I'm not in favour of dropping Arteta fully but I am in favour of making him aware that we are not afraid to take away his dead-ball duties and permanant place if we need to. We need to be more firm with players. Yakubu for one dosen't look interested at the moment so I think it's time the likes of Baxter and Vaughan had a chance to hit the back of the net.

 

 

They're my thoughts about Mikel Dark, his dead ball kicking isn't good enough to be taking every single one, why the manager hasn't spotted this I don't know. Anyone remember a goal scored by baines when he was at Wigan against Utd, a superb shot but he doesn't get a chance with us, why?

[aaron]

drop howard if he carries on the way he is playing.

[dark]

I thought Arteta was poor the other night but you have to remember, he was the only one with any creativity in our team (without Pienaar) and so the opposition were just marking him out of the game knowing without his input we can do nothing. We have such little creativity in the rest of our team we can hardly get the ball to him, I think it may be time to try him in CM in a 451 as the team isn't working at the moment. Maybe for tomorrow we can go back to Arteta and Pienaar on the wings and Osman in the middle, but if that still looks poor then switch Arteta into the middle so at least we have someone who can play a through ball and someone who can get Pienaar on the ball.

 

Yakubu looked totally disinterested the other night, he's seemed content on diving the last few games. Saha looked well off the pace also. I also am getting more and more disappointed with Baines, he started off looking suspect at the back but excellent going forward, now he just looks poor in every department, he needs to get his act together. Players like Yobo really need to step up as well, he's been our best defender for years imo but he's been unbelievably poor this season.

 

Also, I think Anichebe has looked one of our best players this season so I'd get him back in asap.

 

Great points there. In Arteta's case he needs to just get his head right. He is a good player and I think he's just around the corner from getting back to fitness and quality.

 

Yakubu's been terrible since his penalty miss and Saha can't really be blamed. Coming back from injury into a new club when on the night they had so much pressure on them. Yobo is another that just needs to get back on the good road.

 

But Anichebe! Anichebe is by far our worst player ever. He never runs for the ball. Increadably lazy, never really does anything with it when he's got it. Never makies impact and clings on to the two goals he scored in Europe, which for a striker ain't good enough, if I had my way he would have been released, never mind sold, released by now.

[aaron]

vic has being playing alright last few games, played really well on the wing against stoke.

[carlmc25]

They're my thoughts about Mikel Dark, his dead ball kicking isn't good enough to be taking every single one, why the manager hasn't spotted this I don't know. Anyone remember a goal scored by baines when he was at Wigan against Utd, a superb shot but he doesn't get a chance with us, why?

Arteta let Baines take a free kick on the edge of the box the other night and it was one of the very worst free-kicks I've ever seen.

[Jimmy the blue]

Arteta let Baines take a free kick on the edge of the box the other night and it was one of the very worst free-kicks I've ever seen.

 

Could be he just hasn't had practice, I wonder why

[carlmc25]

Could be he just hasn't had practice, I wonder why

I think that maybe he pratices in training...

[Jimmy the blue]

Great points there. In Arteta's case he needs to just get his head right. He is a good player and I think he's just around the corner from getting back to fitness and quality.

 

Yakubu's been terrible since his penalty miss and Saha can't really be blamed. Coming back from injury into a new club when on the night they had so much pressure on them. Yobo is another that just needs to get back on the good road.

 

But Anichebe! Anichebe is by far our worst player ever. He never runs for the ball. Increadably lazy, never really does anything with it when he's got it. Never makies impact and clings on to the two goals he scored in Europe, which for a striker ain't good enough, if I had my way he would have been released, never mind sold, released by now.

 

The Yak has always gone walk about for months at a time throughout his career then out of nowhere he'll hit a hat trick and he's scoring again, its all a part of having the Yak in your side

[Jimmy the blue]

I think that maybe he pratices in training...

 

So what's Artetas excuse

[carlmc25]

So what's Artetas excuse

I'm not making one for Arteta, only saying that I don't think we have anyone better and he has scored one this season and set up goals from others. I think the pressure on Arteta is also a lot greater, he knows the expectation is solely on him to produce something as no one else in the team is capable, I think it has got to him a bit. I think if he was in a team with better players he'd be absolutely exceptional.

[Jimmy the blue]

I'm not making one for Arteta, only saying that I don't think we have anyone better and he has scored one this season and set up goals from others. I think the pressure on Arteta is also a lot greater, he knows the expectation is solely on him to produce something as no one else in the team is capable, I think it has got to him a bit. I think if he was in a team with better players he'd be absolutely exceptional.

 

I'm saying he needs to do less and having others take the dead balls would help. Teta has a habit of going missing, especially if we are up against it. His ball skills are as good if not better than almost every player in the league and he is a joy to watch but why not let the Pieman take some dead balls, as I said Baines can rocket a dead ball but we cannot afford to go on being so wasteful letting him continously hit the first man

[dark]

I'm saying he needs to do less and having others take the dead balls would help. Teta has a habit of going missing, especially if we are up against it. His ball skills are as good if not better than almost every player in the league and he is a joy to watch but why not let the Pieman take some dead balls, as I said Baines can rocket a dead ball but we cannot afford to go on being so wasteful letting him continously hit the first man

 

Agree with you there Jimmy - We need to give Arteta some breathing space. Take some of the pressure off him. At the moment he takes every set-piece for us. Corner, Free-Kick and Penalty. Now, penalty isn't that bad. But I think we should consider allowing Pienaar to take our corners and possibly Cahill/Baines/Pienaar for our free-kicks. Arteta is good with them but after doing the same thing over and over his form is likely to dip. Take his services away from him for a few games and we'll see a differance in his form.

[carlmc25]

I'm saying he needs to do less and having others take the dead balls would help. Teta has a habit of going missing, especially if we are up against it. His ball skills are as good if not better than almost every player in the league and he is a joy to watch but why not let the Pieman take some dead balls, as I said Baines can rocket a dead ball but we cannot afford to go on being so wasteful letting him continously hit the first man

I definitely think it would help if someone else gave him a hand with the set-pieces. I don't know why he continues to take all of them, whether he just believes it will all click back into place, whether it's arrogance or whether he just thinks everyone else at the club is rubbish at them, but he is definitely struggling at the moment and it is obviously affecting his play and confidence. There appears to be fear when he steps up to deliver a set-piece now, no doubt partly due to the negativity in the crowd, which is sort of understandable if not productive.

[Jimmy the blue]

I definitely think it would help if someone else gave him a hand with the set-pieces. I don't know why he continues to take all of them, whether he just believes it will all click back into place, whether it's arrogance or whether he just thinks everyone else at the club is rubbish at them, but he is definitely struggling at the moment and it is obviously affecting his play and confidence. There appears to be fear when he steps up to deliver a set-piece now, no doubt partly due to the negativity in the crowd, which is sort of understandable if not productive.

 

Carl, don't you think Moyes ought to do something about it