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Jimmy the blue

Moyes: Is He Worth £3.4 Million Pounds A Season?

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Slow down there mate, why label me and others in the Moyes out brigade, read the thread its about if he is worth the new contract, at present he is not no matter what you say, as manager HIS squad is under performing badly yet he wants his wages tripled, economic nonsense. You try and ask your boss for a rise with results like he has had and he'd sack you.

 

Are you happy with our team being booed off the pitch and the manager blaming the players, he needs to take a good look at himself, they are his tactics yet he takes no blame but a bl;oody get pay deal

Have to agree with you..at the moment he seems to be sulking like a big girl who's ripped her knickers for some reason..so at THIS moment in time he's not worth this supposed contract

 

Though why he still hasnt signed it is beyond me tbh

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Slow down there mate, why label me and others in the Moyes out brigade, read the thread its about if he is worth the new contract, at present he is not no matter what you say, as manager HIS squad is under performing badly yet he wants his wages tripled, economic nonsense. You try and ask your boss for a rise with results like he has had and he'd sack you.

 

Are you happy with our team being booed off the pitch and the manager blaming the players, he needs to take a good look at himself, they are his tactics yet he takes no blame but a bl;oody get pay deal

So let me get this straight jimmy, we should not pay Moyes what he wants based purely on 6 games this season, rather than the past 4 years of constant improvement, overachieving in the league, total transformation both in quality and age of the first team and altering people's perceptions of the club in general? that seems to be what you're saying to me, which in my opinion, is absolutely insane and a total knee jerk reaction to our start to the season (which after all is only 5 league games in). I agree with nearly everything you say normally, but your comments in this thread are a disgrace, how any fans can be so fickle is beyond me, I knew that gratitude and loyalty were in short supply among players these days but is it any wonder when the fans are no better. If Moyes did go and we get some total div in like Allardyce and we plummet back to lower table obscurity then it is the fans like you who are to blame. Whether he is worth £65k a week may be open to debate, but the more pressing question is can we afford not to pay it and run the risk of having to replace Moyes with most likely someone of vastly inferior quality? One word, no.

 

Maybe Utd shouldn't pay Ferguson what he wants either, I mean they've only signed one player and are below us in the league.

 

the only way Moyes is going is if he walks and the way the mood is around the whole club this season it wouldn't surprise me. Don't get me wrong, it's up to the players to get the mood lifted, but I think the fans need to get behind everyone at this moment in time, pull together and try and drag the players out of their slumber, rather than taking pot-shots at players, at the manager, at the Chairman.

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So let me get this straight jimmy, we should not pay Moyes what he wants based purely on 6 games this season, rather than the past 4 years of constant improvement, overachieving in the league, total transformation both in quality and age of the first team and altering people's perceptions of the club in general? that seems to be what you're saying to me, which in my opinion, is absolutely insane and a total knee jerk reaction to our start to the season (which after all is only 5 league games in). I agree with nearly everything you say normally, but your comments in this thread are a disgrace, how any fans can be so fickle is beyond me, I knew that gratitude and loyalty were in short supply among players these days but is it any wonder when the fans are no better. If Moyes did go and we get some total div in like Allardyce and we plummet back to lower table obscurity then it is the fans like you who are to blame. Whether he is worth £65k a week may be open to debate, but the more pressing question is can we afford not to pay it and run the risk of having to replace Moyes with most likely someone of vastly inferior quality? One word, no.

 

Maybe Utd shouldn't pay Ferguson what he wants either, I mean they've only signed one player and are below us in the league.

 

the only way Moyes is going is if he walks and the way the mood is around the whole club this season it wouldn't surprise me. Don't get me wrong, it's up to the players to get the mood lifted, but I think the fans need to get behind everyone at this moment in time, pull together and try and drag the players out of their slumber, rather than taking pot-shots at players, at the manager, at the Chairman.

Well said agree with all of above COYB ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

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So let me get this straight jimmy, we should not pay Moyes what he wants based purely on 6 games this season, rather than the past 4 years of constant improvement, overachieving in the league, total transformation both in quality and age of the first team and altering people's perceptions of the club in general? that seems to be what you're saying to me, which in my opinion, is absolutely insane and a total knee jerk reaction to our start to the season (which after all is only 5 league games in). I agree with nearly everything you say normally, but your comments in this thread are a disgrace, how any fans can be so fickle is beyond me, I knew that gratitude and loyalty were in short supply among players these days but is it any wonder when the fans are no better. If Moyes did go and we get some total div in like Allardyce and we plummet back to lower table obscurity then it is the fans like you who are to blame. Whether he is worth £65k a week may be open to debate, but the more pressing question is can we afford not to pay it and run the risk of having to replace Moyes with most likely someone of vastly inferior quality? One word, no.

 

Maybe Utd shouldn't pay Ferguson what he wants either, I mean they've only signed one player and are below us in the league.

 

the only way Moyes is going is if he walks and the way the mood is around the whole club this season it wouldn't surprise me. Don't get me wrong, it's up to the players to get the mood lifted, but I think the fans need to get behind everyone at this moment in time, pull together and try and drag the players out of their slumber, rather than taking pot-shots at players, at the manager, at the Chairman.

 

That is a load of puerile nonsense. According to your theory if David Moyes asked for £25 mil over four years you'd pay it, God help us all. As I have already said I could not give a sod what other clubs do I'm a Blue, born one and happily die one but when I see my club being ripped off I shout and that is what your little hero is doing. Tell me why he hasn't signed if he has the welfare of the club at heart. By the way once we sign that contract we will be duty bound to pay it even if the team does not improve. What is he haggling about, does he want a bigger parking space, does he require a personal arse licker, what is wrong with what is in front of him now and don't mention ambition, my club has always and will always be bigger than David Moyes or his own ambitions.

 

Comparing him to SAF, you're havin a larf

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That is a load of puerile nonsense. According to your theory if David Moyes asked for £25 mil over four years you'd pay it, God help us all. As I have already said I could not give a sod what other clubs do I'm a Blue, born one and happily die one but when I see my club being ripped off I shout and that is what your little hero is doing. Tell me why he hasn't signed if he has the welfare of the club at heart. By the way once we sign that contract we will be duty bound to pay it even if the team does not improve. What is he haggling about, does he want a bigger parking space, does he require a personal arse licker, what is wrong with what is in front of him now and don't mention ambition, my club has always and will always be bigger than David Moyes or his own ambitions.

 

Comparing him to SAF, you're havin a larf

[/quote I GIVE UP.

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That is a load of puerile nonsense. According to your theory if David Moyes asked for £25 mil over four years you'd pay it, God help us all. As I have already said I could not give a sod what other clubs do I'm a Blue, born one and happily die one but when I see my club being ripped off I shout and that is what your little hero is doing. Tell me why he hasn't signed if he has the welfare of the club at heart. By the way once we sign that contract we will be duty bound to pay it even if the team does not improve. What is he haggling about, does he want a bigger parking space, does he require a personal arse licker, what is wrong with what is in front of him now and don't mention ambition, my club has always and will always be bigger than David Moyes or his own ambitions.

 

Comparing him to SAF, you're havin a larf

I don't think I am 'having a larf' - how do you think SAF would have done any better in the league with Moyes budget restrictions? Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Utd, Chelsea, Villa, now Man City, Newcastle all outspend us big time yet we still punch above our weight in the league (one season aside) under Moyes, we overachieve. SAF has millions upon millions to spend, no denying he is a fantastic manager, possibly the best ever, but I very much doubt he would have done any better than Moyes at Everton, I don't think it's possible in the league certainly. Wenger hasn't won anything for years and look at the talent he's had at his disposal. There's no denying Moyes cup record has not been good enough, but unkind draws have not helped and when you look at the FA Cup, last year aside no one outside the big 4 had won it in years. On paper we can't compete against the top 4, we shouldn't even be close, yet consistently under Moyes we've been there or thereabouts and even gatecrashed the top 4 one season against all odds.

 

The bottom line is, Moyes is worth whatever the club will pay him - not what you personally think. You don't even know what he's been offered, what clauses are in there, what guarantees, you basically know nothing apart from speculation yet you have a go at him. The club know they can't afford to lose Moyes but at the same time they can't pay money that is too unreasonable, it's a balancing act - it's called bargaining and compromise. I personally think Moyes hasn't signed the deal because he's getting a little fed up and wants to see what transfer assurances/finances he has in place in the future and also he wants to see if any bigger clubs come in for him (which is unlikely at the moment, although Spurs may if their results don't improve). He's given us over 4 years service and done a brilliant job year on year, if he walked out now I'd still have the utmost respect for him, he's served his time and he deserves more respect than he's getting from fans like you.

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I don't think I am 'having a larf' - how do you think SAF would have done any better in the league with Moyes budget restrictions? Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Utd, Chelsea, Villa, now Man City, Newcastle all outspend us big time yet we still punch above our weight in the league (one season aside) under Moyes, we overachieve. SAF has millions upon millions to spend, no denying he is a fantastic manager, possibly the best ever, but I very much doubt he would have done any better than Moyes at Everton, I don't think it's possible in the league certainly. Wenger hasn't won anything for years and look at the talent he's had at his disposal. There's no denying Moyes cup record has not been good enough, but unkind draws have not helped and when you look at the FA Cup, last year aside no one outside the big 4 had won it in years. On paper we can't compete against the top 4, we shouldn't even be close, yet consistently under Moyes we've been there or thereabouts and even gatecrashed the top 4 one season against all odds.

 

The bottom line is, Moyes is worth whatever the club will pay him - not what you personally think. You don't even know what he's been offered, what clauses are in there, what guarantees, you basically know nothing apart from speculation yet you have a go at him. The club know they can't afford to lose Moyes but at the same time they can't pay money that is too unreasonable, it's a balancing act - it's called bargaining and compromise. I personally think Moyes hasn't signed the deal because he's getting a little fed up and wants to see what transfer assurances/finances he has in place in the future and also he wants to see if any bigger clubs come in for him (which is unlikely at the moment, although Spurs may if their results don't improve). He's given us over 4 years service and done a brilliant job year on year, if he walked out now I'd still have the utmost respect for him, he's served his time and he deserves more respect than he's getting from fans like you.

Carl SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE BLUE.You will have a hard job convincing the doom and gloom merchants though,god help us if we dont win to-morrow or Thursday they will want Moyes hanged,we get more stick off our own fans than the red shite give us im like you if Moyes goes i wont blame him but fuck knows how we could replace him COYB :):mellow:

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street end - how long have you been a blue? its traditional that we give ourselves more stick than anyone else.

 

 

what do evertonians hate more than kopites???

 

 

 

 

 

 

evertonians!!! :lol:

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Carl SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE BLUE.You will have a hard job convincing the doom and gloom merchants though,god help us if we dont win to-morrow or Thursday they will want Moyes hanged,we get more stick off our own fans than the red shite give us im like you if Moyes goes i wont blame him but fuck knows how we could replace him COYB :):mellow:

 

 

A typical shout of the small minded, wrapping yourselves in the blue flag is normally the resort of people without argument, you'd go a fucking long way to find a truer blue than me and don't you bloody well forget it and that includes your darling Davie.

 

If you two can't see outside your the flag that is your fault, leave it to the grown ups to discuss proper business. It is transparently clear than neither of you have any comprehension of the sums involved, both of you have been brought up playing football games on the computer forgetting about the real world. If Moyes had the clubs welfare at heart he would have signed, you two accept and applaud him for the fact that he is putting himself before the club you both claim to love so much...........that is where we differ and always will. He is screwing the club for every cent he can get that makes him one grabbing bastard in my book and no matter what you say his side is playing shit at the moment although that seems to please the pair of you.

 

Some how the pair of you accuse me of being a doom and gloom merchant, everyone who knows me, that clearly excludes you, will tell you the absolute opposite, including falling out with lads who wanted Moyes out. But don't you dare say you are truer blue than me, you'll need to put a hell of a lot more years in before you can come close.

 

I note that you seem prepared to pay him £25 mil over four years, what the most you'd pay him as I could do with a good laugh

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I'm finding all this quite amusing in an odd sort of way. You see, I go back a long time with this club (probably longer than many of you have been born) and it's a fact that the more things change the more they stay the same.

This club doesn't have a good record of putting up with managers once they're just a little past their luck. NSNO!

The reason I mention this is because Johnny Carey who was the manager had a track record similar to that of Moyes. In his 3rd season, Everton had their best season for 15 years in 1960/61 finishing 5th. He had the advantage of the financial support of John Moores and the club was nicknamed " The Merseyside Millionaires" After a poor start to the 61/62 season he was famously sacked in a taxi. Fickle fans demanded he be removed.

It's true that over many years the fans of this club have lived by the club's motto - NSNO and some careers have suffered as a result.

I don't know whether Moyes is worth x-million quid a year and I don't care. The whole thing boils down to the fact that the fans DEMAND success at this club and if they don't get it, the manager WILL pay the price! As to why Moyes hasn't signed a new contract can only be down to 2 things:

(A) He's waiting for a better offer. Not necessarily more cash, but perhaps more prestige. Maybe he has inside info as to which club will be in the market for a manager soon and is prepared to wait. (What price Celtic?)

(B) His current terms are not satisfactory in that he wants more freedom to buy players. He'll use the successes of recent years as a bargaining tool (a bit of blackmail really) As there is a real problem with the club's finances and the future is bound up with the stadium disputes he may not get his own way any time soon. If he presses too hard for more cash for players he may find himself between a rock and a hard place, as the club will not be dictated to by a manager and will withdraw the contract offer.

If he's playing brinkmanship he'd better hurry to get the team moving up the table because he may run out of time and bargaining power to find that Johhny Carey's experience is about to happen to him! NSNO!

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A typical shout of the small minded, wrapping yourselves in the blue flag is normally the resort of people without argument, you'd go a fucking long way to find a truer blue than me and don't you bloody well forget it and that includes your darling Davie.

 

If you two can't see outside your the flag that is your fault, leave it to the grown ups to discuss proper business. It is transparently clear than neither of you have any comprehension of the sums involved, both of you have been brought up playing football games on the computer forgetting about the real world. If Moyes had the clubs welfare at heart he would have signed, you two accept and applaud him for the fact that he is putting himself before the club you both claim to love so much...........that is where we differ and always will. He is screwing the club for every cent he can get that makes him one grabbing bastard in my book and no matter what you say his side is playing shit at the moment although that seems to please the pair of you.

 

Some how the pair of you accuse me of being a doom and gloom merchant, everyone who knows me, that clearly excludes you, will tell you the absolute opposite, including falling out with lads who wanted Moyes out. But don't you dare say you are truer blue than me, you'll need to put a hell of a lot more years in before you can come close.

 

I note that you seem prepared to pay him £25 mil over four years, what the most you'd pay him as I could do with a good laugh

Leave it to grown ups? er... so because you're older than me that means somehow you have a better football and salary knowledge? Personally I tend to find the older the blue the more bitter he is, not the more wise and forward thinking. You seem to fail to grasp any sense of economics or business sense whilst also failing to remember that Moyes is not a born and bred Everton fan, he's a manager working to earn a decent living who happens to be manager of Everton. He can easily justify a 65k salary a week due to various matters. The squad he has built is now worth probably something like £60m more than when he took over (I think that was approx the number I calculated in a recent argument with Stevo) which in 4 years is a net increase of £15m a year. Then take into account when he took over we were basically a bottom six team, year on year. Now we are a top 6 team, year on year (aside from one) and as each league placing is worth something like 0.5m then the 10-12 places we've climbed under Moyes is worth about £5m - 6m a year. Working in a big business myself and being involved in budgetary planning and identifying salary rates, one of the main things you take into account is 'is he going to bring in more money than the wages we are paying out?'. As Moyes is only asking for about £15m over 4 years and he has already brought in roughly about £20m inreased revenue in the league and increased our business assets on the pitch to the tune of about £60m over 4/5 years then the answer is yes. I mean he bought Arteta for £2.5m, he is now probably worth about £15m, that's almost paid Moyes 4 years salary right there.

 

Moyes has every right to ask for what he thinks he is worth, as a manager in the premier league he will be looking at what other managers are currently on, he'll look at what the likes of Keegan was receiving, what Ramos is receiving, what Hughes is receiving and why should he accept less when he has proven himself to be one of the top managers in the league over the last 4 years (winning manager of the year twice don't forget). It is not Moyes problem if the board cannot afford to pay him the going rate, he has every right to look at the market, look at the income he has brought to the club and make demands accordingly, if the club cannot afford him then tough luck, he'll see if someone else will pay him. He's in the final year of his contract, he has shown his commitment and is in the process of seeing the contract he signed through, that is all you can ask of someone - to honour their deal. If I was manager of Spurs and Arsenal came in and said we'll pay you double the wages Spurs will, I'd go to Arsenal without a second thought, that's the situation for Moyes, he has currently taken the club as far as he can without serious investment and if he gets a better offer at a possibly more affluent club who can pay him what he's worth then he has every right to go for it. You may not like it, but I doubt he cares what you like, he's out to make money for himself and his family. As far as I'm concerned Moyes owes Everton and it's fans nothing, we owe him a serious debt of gratitude for transforming our club and giving us our pride back.

 

The sad thing is we have the nickname of the bitter blues and from my experiences, it's probably justified.

 

and Jimmy, just because you've been a fan a longer time doesn't mean you're a truer blue, it just means you're older so how about we leave the patronisation to one side?

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Leave it to grown ups? er... so because you're older than me that means somehow you have a better football and salary knowledge? Personally I tend to find the older the blue the more bitter he is, not the more wise and forward thinking. You seem to fail to grasp any sense of economics or business sense whilst also failing to remember that Moyes is not a born and bred Everton fan, he's a manager working to earn a decent living who happens to be manager of Everton. He can easily justify a 65k salary a week due to various matters. The squad he has built is now worth probably something like £60m more than when he took over (I think that was approx the number I calculated in a recent argument with Stevo) which in 4 years is a net increase of £15m a year. Then take into account when he took over we were basically a bottom six team, year on year. Now we are a top 6 team, year on year (aside from one) and as each league placing is worth something like 0.5m then the 10-12 places we've climbed under Moyes is worth about £5m - 6m a year. Working in a big business myself and being involved in budgetary planning and identifying salary rates, one of the main things you take into account is 'is he going to bring in more money than the wages we are paying out?'. As Moyes is only asking for about £15m over 4 years and he has already brought in roughly about £20m inreased revenue in the league and increased our business assets on the pitch to the tune of about £60m over 4/5 years then the answer is yes. I mean he bought Arteta for £2.5m, he is now probably worth about £15m, that's almost paid Moyes 4 years salary right there.

 

Moyes has every right to ask for what he thinks he is worth, as a manager in the premier league he will be looking at what other managers are currently on, he'll look at what the likes of Keegan was receiving, what Ramos is receiving, what Hughes is receiving and why should he accept less when he has proven himself to be one of the top managers in the league over the last 4 years (winning manager of the year twice don't forget). It is not Moyes problem if the board cannot afford to pay him the going rate, he has every right to look at the market, look at the income he has brought to the club and make demands accordingly, if the club cannot afford him then tough luck, he'll see if someone else will pay him. He's in the final year of his contract, he has shown his commitment and is in the process of seeing the contract he signed through, that is all you can ask of someone - to honour their deal. If I was manager of Spurs and Arsenal came in and said we'll pay you double the wages Spurs will, I'd go to Arsenal without a second thought, that's the situation for Moyes, he has currently taken the club as far as he can without serious investment and if he gets a better offer at a possibly more affluent club who can pay him what he's worth then he has every right to go for it. You may not like it, but I doubt he cares what you like, he's out to make money for himself and his family. As far as I'm concerned Moyes owes Everton and it's fans nothing, we owe him a serious debt of gratitude for transforming our club and giving us our pride back.

 

The sad thing is we have the nickname of the bitter blues and from my experiences, it's probably justified.

 

and Jimmy, just because you've been a fan a longer time doesn't mean you're a truer blue, it just means you're older so how about we leave the patronisation to one side?

 

Patronising me, it was you two who started the TRUE BLUE lark, read the thread. Blind faith is just what it says blind. If you are happy that very supporter who goes to a home game over the next five years will be paying about £4 a head per match to afford his wages then you need locking up simple. By the way the economy is shaping the big wage bubble is bursting all over the world yet you want us to commit to that, madness pure madness. Incidentally when SAF took over at Utd they were down and out, and broke so yes it can be done.

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Patronising me, it was you two who started the TRUE BLUE lark, read the thread. Blind faith is just what it says blind. If you are happy that very supporter who goes to a home game over the next five years will be paying about £4 a head per match to afford his wages then you need locking up simple. By the way the economy is shaping the big wage bubble is bursting all over the world yet you want us to commit to that, madness pure madness. Incidentally when SAF took over at Utd they were down and out, and broke so yes it can be done.

I DO HOPE JIMMY THAT YOU WERE AT THE GAME TO-DAY AND NOT SITTING AT HOME WATCHING IT ON THE TELE!!!!!

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Patronising me, it was you two who started the TRUE BLUE lark, read the thread. Blind faith is just what it says blind. If you are happy that very supporter who goes to a home game over the next five years will be paying about £4 a head per match to afford his wages then you need locking up simple. By the way the economy is shaping the big wage bubble is bursting all over the world yet you want us to commit to that, madness pure madness. Incidentally when SAF took over at Utd they were down and out, and broke so yes it can be done.

You two? we're not a team and I never mentioned anything about you or me being more of a true blue as I think it's a load of crap, I was as big an Everton supporter when I was 15 as I am now at nearly 30, in fact if anything - over time as you get older you get different priorities such as work, family etc and so if anything football matters less to me now than it did when I was younger so your argument that we need to spend as many years supporting the club to be as true a blue as you is just rubbish. My patronisation comment was more aimed at your petty comment about leaving the discussion to the grown ups which I took exception to, it's that type of crap elitist 'I'm older than you' attitude which gets on my nerves. I laid out how Moyes can ask for what he wants and the basis for his arguments while you just come out with nothing except 'we're not doing well in the league this year after 6 whole games.'

 

On the other side of it, from the Everton board's point of view, they will look at it and think without Moyes we'll likely drop 5-6 places at least (approx £2.5-3m revenue a year on league placings) plus our average attendance will drop, our players will be worth less and we'll still have to pay another manager at least about £30k a week anyway, another £1.5m - all of which adds up to more than what Moyes wants.

 

If the board thinks it can get someone as good as Moyes for less money then I have no problem with that, but likewise I have no problem with Moyes asking for what he thinks he deserves on the current market, due to his results with the club and due to the comparable pay of other managers. If we won't pay it then he's within his rights to look elsewhere.

 

As for SAF, money wasn't as big an issue then whilst although Utd were down in the dumps a bit, they were still one of the biggest clubs in Europe, they were truly a sleeping giant and Ferguson got the backing. Do you really think SAF could have done much better in the league than Moyes at Everton when up against the money giants of Chelsea, Utd, Liverpool? (bearing in mind he would have needed probably double the wages Moyes wants anyway). SAF is a brilliant manager no doubt, and if Moyes did have big money to spend then his limitations may be exposed so I'm not saying he's as good a manager as SAF, as that would be madness, but he has won manager of the year twice in 4 years (I think) and done an exceptional job.

 

This season has been very disappointing so far, but Moyes knows the problem - it's called balance and at the moment our team doesn't have it even in a 451. Anyway I'll leave it there as this will just go round in circles.

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I DO HOPE JIMMY THAT YOU WERE AT THE GAME TO-DAY AND NOT SITTING AT HOME WATCHING IT ON THE TELE!!!!!

 

I've got news for you, given good health I would have been there but these days I can hardly leave the house. I hope you didn't enjoy it as much as me because what he served up today was embarrassing, but you go ahead and give him the money and see if you get a refund, £17 mil my arse

 

PS there is no need to shout, I'm neither blind nor totally deaf

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According to NSNO (doesn't say where they got it)..

 

David Moyes has spoken about his contract and the delay in getting it signed, and insists that the problem lies with the club not sending back either an approved contract offer, or a request for compromise in the latest round of discussions.

 

“It is not a matter of compromise,” he said. “I have been sitting waiting for it [the contract] to come back from the club for quite a while now but I am not unsettled by it, not at all.

 

“But what happens is that when the manager’s position becomes uncertain then uncertainty can come into the club, I accept that. That is not the reason for this performance or the ones before but I agree it doesn’t help the situation.”

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According to NSNO (doesn't say where they got it)..

 

David Moyes has spoken about his contract and the delay in getting it signed, and insists that the problem lies with the club not sending back either an approved contract offer, or a request for compromise in the latest round of discussions.

 

“It is not a matter of compromise,” he said. “I have been sitting waiting for it [the contract] to come back from the club for quite a while now but I am not unsettled by it, not at all.

 

“But what happens is that when the manager’s position becomes uncertain then uncertainty can come into the club, I accept that. That is not the reason for this performance or the ones before but I agree it doesn’t help the situation.”

 

One way or another it seems he is hanging out for as much as he can get while the team is playing crap

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I DO HOPE JIMMY THAT YOU WERE AT THE GAME TO-DAY AND NOT SITTING AT HOME WATCHING IT ON THE TELE!!!!!

 

What does that have to do with anything? Are you the bigger fan because you went to the game? Do you want to start pulling rank amongst other Everton fans?

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He is not worth it as although we had 3 to 4 good seasons we won nothing and this is what counts at the end. In addition we do not play any exciting football and did not go close to reaching any major cup final. This ping pong between the Board and Moyes has effected us negatively and should stop one way or another. I am sure if Royle or Kendall were in charge we would have won something in 6+years. Moyes is not irreplaceable.

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The sad thing to me about all of the above is that everyone is concerned about whether Moyes is worth 65K a week.

From the average bloke's point of view, nobody is worth 65K a week. It's what Moyes will bring to the club for that money is what it's all about.

I have to say though, that if I was getting paid his current 30K a week (or thereabouts) and I was happy doing what I did, I wouldn't need a pay rise! Shit isn't 30K a week enough? Conversely, if I hated what I was doing for a job, that extra 35K a week wouldn't keep me there.

So, if Moyes dearly loves his job, why the standoff about salary? Is it "well he gets 65K a week, so I want the same". If so he can fook off right now. Let's face it, his current annual salary is what the average Joe Blow earns in 50 years of work - isn't that enough?

I can't get around the fact that if one earned 30K a week, how much would doubling your salary affect your life? Shit, the average bloke (here I go again) could live very comfortably on the interest from 30K a week alone!

From all that, you could gather that I'm not in favour of a huge pay rise. If he brings success to the club, the extra money generated will pay his extra salary. What I'm extremely unhappy about is all the undignified stretching out of proceedings that by Moyes' own admission "could" be affecting the teams performance & morale. If he believes that and there's no reason to think otherwise,(because he's on record as saying so - Setanta) he obviously doesn't have the club's welfare at heart and he's in it only for the money.

We've idolised the players who we've said are real professionals, who'd play for Everton for the basic wage, who'd die for the club, yet here are some who'd pay an extra 35K a week from a club that's not flush with cash, to a bloke who's upset that other managers get more!

Fook me, it's time for a reality check.

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So from that little rant i take it you dont think he should get a rise.

 

Put aside the amount they get because thats the going rate these days, the "Big 4" pay their players 2 or maybe 3 times as much as ours, so by that reckoning we are poorly paid at EFC and always have been.

With the extra TV MONEY that came into force last season half of our players were offered and signed longer IMPROVED CONTRACTS, so how much are they on now. ?? £40.000, £50.000 or more we dont really know, but I,m a great believer in thinking that the workers should not get more wages than their boss, so if they got a rise why should'nt he after what he has done for the Club.

At todays rate of pay thats not a lot to ask, so i say if it is about money give him the fookin money and lets get the contract signed.

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The sad thing to me about all of the above is that everyone is concerned about whether Moyes is worth 65K a week.

From the average bloke's point of view, nobody is worth 65K a week. It's what Moyes will bring to the club for that money is what it's all about.

I have to say though, that if I was getting paid his current 30K a week (or thereabouts) and I was happy doing what I did, I wouldn't need a pay rise! Shit isn't 30K a week enough? Conversely, if I hated what I was doing for a job, that extra 35K a week wouldn't keep me there.

So, if Moyes dearly loves his job, why the standoff about salary? Is it "well he gets 65K a week, so I want the same". If so he can fook off right now. Let's face it, his current annual salary is what the average Joe Blow earns in 50 years of work - isn't that enough?

I can't get around the fact that if one earned 30K a week, how much would doubling your salary affect your life? Shit, the average bloke (here I go again) could live very comfortably on the interest from 30K a week alone!

From all that, you could gather that I'm not in favour of a huge pay rise. If he brings success to the club, the extra money generated will pay his extra salary. What I'm extremely unhappy about is all the undignified stretching out of proceedings that by Moyes' own admission "could" be affecting the teams performance & morale. If he believes that and there's no reason to think otherwise,(because he's on record as saying so - Setanta) he obviously doesn't have the club's welfare at heart and he's in it only for the money.

We've idolised the players who we've said are real professionals, who'd play for Everton for the basic wage, who'd die for the club, yet here are some who'd pay an extra 35K a week from a club that's not flush with cash, to a bloke who's upset that other managers get more!

Fook me, it's time for a reality check.

 

 

Fook me, fellow old school, well said Oz mate,

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So from that little rant i take it you dont think he should get a rise.

 

Put aside the amount they get because thats the going rate these days, the "Big 4" pay their players 2 or maybe 3 times as much as ours, so by that reckoning we are poorly paid at EFC and always have been.

With the extra TV MONEY that came into force last season half of our players were offered and signed longer IMPROVED CONTRACTS, so how much are they on now. ?? £40.000, £50.000 or more we dont really know, but I,m a great believer in thinking that the workers should not get more wages than their boss, so if they got a rise why should'nt he after what he has done for the Club.

At todays rate of pay thats not a lot to ask, so i say if it is about money give him the fookin money and lets get the contract signed.

 

Wow Bill, pay him what we can't afford, why, is he earning it, I don't think so

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Cant have players getting more than the Manager Jimmy, that would be crazy. ;) Do any of the players earn their wages. ??

 

Bill, that is the case at many clubs, a managerial career is far longer than a playing one, we need value for money and have not been getting it from Moyes. The fact that players aren't earning their bread is down to the manager at the end of the day. The claimed wage deal for Moyes is the equivalent of about £4 per spectator for every home game over the next five years yet as Oz says he is being greedy while the team goes to pot, we couldn't be doing much worse if he was on strike. I have supported david Moyes because I always believed he had the best interests of the club at heart, it seems I was wrong.

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Bill, that is the case at many clubs, a managerial career is far longer than a playing one, we need value for money and have not been getting it from Moyes. The fact that players aren't earning their bread is down to the manager at the end of the day. The claimed wage deal for Moyes is the equivalent of about £4 per spectator for every home game over the next five years yet as Oz says he is being greedy while the team goes to pot, we couldn't be doing much worse if he was on strike. I have supported david Moyes because I always believed he had the best interests of the club at heart, it seems I was wrong.

Have you thought about judjing him at the end of the season, by the way, im happy that £4 per home ticket is paying his wages, we are unrecognisable from the team he took over, have you forgotten we finished fifth last season do you realise how hard this was and how many clubs would give anything to get that position.COYB

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The players have every right to ask him wtf is going on with him and his contract that was supposedly just a couple of weeks away from signing months ago, but it shouldn't affect their performances because no matter what goes on with Moyes' contract they still get paid their wedge.

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If moyes is basing his wage on us winning the uefa cup, winning the fa cup, and getting 4th, then yes he does.

 

If hes basing it on coming top 8, not winning any silverware and making us a laughing stock, then no.

 

moot point in my eyes, who would come into everton if he left and have a greater effect?

 

newcastle are in a mess but buyers will probably come in before christmas, while weve been looking for new owners for ages and cant find anyone. Someone posted a load of comments from this time last year and we still finished 5th, and everyone was dismayed but we got our act together. In fairness to moyes, even if money is going in his pocket he knows how to get the ebst out of players, weve had the same start as last year so why all the fuss?

 

in the words of the great richard pryor "Have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up"

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This thread has now brought up an argument that has been rumbling on for a while.

 

The thread asked whether Moyes is worth £3.4 million a season.

 

Are we talking relatively or realistically? Relatively, the answer has to be yes. Compared to his managerial rivals and equals, he has been relatively poorly paid, as pointed out by several people earlier. He has steered the club to a position where regularly competeing in the top 6 is bringing in revenue we could only dream of 7-8 years ago. He has stabalised the team, providing consistencey and potency (recent form exceoted of course) and the value of the squad has increased dramatically by shrewd transfers as well as dramatically bringing the average age down.

 

Realistically, an increase from £30k per week to £65k per week is obscene. While the average man in the street is struggling to make ends meet, anyone demanding this kind of money for participating in what is effectively a pastime is ridiculous. But this is a moral argument that has gone on for years. Why are nurses, fireman and the armed forces paid so poorly compared to this. Who provides the life enhancing service and puts themselves on the line for others. You could argue this until the cows come home.

 

Well, anyone who thinks this needs to change, you should read Karl Marx and push for communism. But that has unfortunately been shown to fail miserably in the real world. Nice in theory. We live in a capatalist world where the few reap the rewards and everyone else pays.

 

While morally, the wage demand is obviously wrong, you can't blame Moyes for wanting his piece of the pie. Why shouldn't he get the going rate. At the end of the day, he took a career decision to become a manager and has been successful. You could say this was a gamble as the odds of making good money from professional footbal are astronomical, almost on par with winning the lottery. It is a British trait to persecute the successful though, so I guess he has it coming. God help him if we start winning thing and we come to renew his contract again, we'll be baying for blood for having a successful manager.

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Well, anyone who thinks this needs to change, you should read Karl Marx and push for communism. But that has unfortunately been shown to fail miserably in the real world. Nice in theory. We live in a capatalist world where the few reap the rewards and everyone else pays.

 

While morally, the wage demand is obviously wrong, you can't blame Moyes for wanting his piece of the pie. Why shouldn't he get the going rate. At the end of the day, he took a career decision to become a manager and has been successful. You could say this was a gamble as the odds of making good money from professional footbal are astronomical, almost on par with winning the lottery. It is a British trait to persecute the successful though, so I guess he has it coming. God help him if we start winning thing and we come to renew his contract again, we'll be baying for blood for having a successful manager.

 

 

Just hold on here, one driving force of a free market econnomy is value for money hence we must examine that question first, IMO he isn't. I think that your analogy with Marxism is stupid at this moment in time, capitalism isn't covering itself in glory without intervention of the state but its football we are talking about any way so no government will bail us out, shit we can't get the fucking council on our side.

 

You say we can't blame Moyes for his wage demands, yes we can as he is making them. He is aware what we can afford and its far less today than it was yesterday or do you recommend us having a fire damage sale in the January window just to afford the wages demands of a failing manager, it is also a fact of the free market that he has the option of going elsewhere............................

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Just hold on here, one driving force of a free market econnomy is value for money hence we must examine that question first, IMO he isn't. I think that your analogy with Marxism is stupid at this moment in time, capitalism isn't covering itself in glory without intervention of the state but its football we are talking about any way so no government will bail us out, shit we can't get the fucking council on our side.

 

You say we can't blame Moyes for his wage demands, yes we can as he is making them. He is aware what we can afford and its far less today than it was yesterday or do you recommend us having a fire damage sale in the January window just to afford the wages demands of a failing manager, it is also a fact of the free market that he has the option of going elsewhere............................

 

Market value in a free market economy, jimmy, is not just driven by value for money, i.e. the consumer, the one doing the buying or paying the wages, wanting to get most for their wedge. It also has upwards pressure from the seller, or the one demanding the wages, trying to get the most cash possible. The balance of these two forces sets a market value which determines the standard price across the board. At the moment, 65k a week is the going rate for a manager of an top ten prem team, fact of life, because, unfortunately, there is not much pressure from the value-for-money side. Fans keep paying the ticket prices no matter what the price hikes are, fans keep subscribing to sky and setanta, fans keep buying the shirts. It's a seller's market, and the players/managers/money men know it. So until Everton fans stop going to Goodison in protest at the prices, stop watching them on sky and stop buying the shirt, i'm afraid Moyes is worth £65k a week, coz thats what we'd have to pay anyone

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Market value in a free market economy, jimmy, is not just driven by value for money, i.e. the consumer, the one doing the buying or paying the wages, wanting to get most for their wedge. It also has upwards pressure from the seller, or the one demanding the wages, trying to get the most cash possible. The balance of these two forces sets a market value which determines the standard price across the board. At the moment, 65k a week is the going rate for a manager of an top ten prem team, fact of life, because, unfortunately, there is not much pressure from the value-for-money side. Fans keep paying the ticket prices no matter what the price hikes are, fans keep subscribing to sky and setanta, fans keep buying the shirts. It's a seller's market, and the players/managers/money men know it. So until Everton fans stop going to Goodison in protest at the prices, stop watching them on sky and stop buying the shirt, i'm afraid Moyes is worth £65k a week, coz thats what we'd have to pay anyone

 

If the top ten managers are on that sort of money why are Spurs reportedly trying to tempt Sparky with a similar sum, he can't be on anything like that, I doubt if Martin O'Neil gets that much. It was a sellers market but no more, look at housing, prime example. In the present economic climate value for money will be more and more the standard that we must aim for, we cannot afford his demands, if they are at this level.. I wonder how many shirts have been sold at our club shop today

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If the top ten managers are on that sort of money why are Spurs reportedly trying to tempt Sparky with a similar sum, he can't be on anything like that, I doubt if Martin O'Neil gets that much. It was a sellers market but no more, look at housing, prime example. In the present economic climate value for money will be more and more the standard that we must aim for, we cannot afford his demands, if they are at this level.. I wonder how many shirts have been sold at our club shop today

Jimmy, you keep going on about how we can't afford it yet I'm sure if Lionel Messi was coming in you wouldn't be moaning if we were paying him in excess of 65k. He has the right to demand as much or in excess of managers at other similar clubs especially when he has consistently finished higher than those managers in the league on shoestring budget. It doesn't matter what Everton can or cannot afford, all that matters is what he is worth in todays market. Would you be happy sitting in a job doing the same work as everyone else, probably at a much higher standard, yet receiving less pay because the company says they can't afford you - or would you just go to another company where they pay what you're worth?

 

I don't with those that say that the manager needs to earn in excess of the players, in most businesses yes, in football no. Players bring in merchandising, ticket sales etc. I doubt the manager of LA Galaxy is on the $1m Beckham is on.

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Jimmy, you keep going on about how we can't afford it yet I'm sure if Lionel Messi was coming in you wouldn't be moaning if we were paying him in excess of 65k. He has the right to demand as much or in excess of managers at other similar clubs especially when he has consistently finished higher than those managers in the league on shoestring budget. It doesn't matter what Everton can or cannot afford, all that matters is what he is worth in todays market. Would you be happy sitting in a job doing the same work as everyone else, probably at a much higher standard, yet receiving less pay because the company says they can't afford you - or would you just go to another company where they pay what you're worth?

 

I don't with those that say that the manager needs to earn in excess of the players, in most businesses yes, in football no. Players bring in merchandising, ticket sales etc. I doubt the manager of LA Galaxy is on the $1m Beckham is on.

 

Carl. we are up to our eyes in debt, Messi wouldn't touch us with a barge pole even if we offered him twice that so there is no weight to your argument at all.

 

Is Moyes worth that type of money, he would need to have won us something, to have won a game of note year in year out and he hasn't. I had hoped that we had done with his roller coaster seasons, I thought there was light at the end of the tunnel, there isn't. At present he is the manager of a team with one of the poorest defences in the COUNTRY, not just the prem, what cup runs have we had, last years Carling cup was a joke as soon as we got put against a big club we were beaten embarrassingly so. This seasons form is nothing new, remember the atrocious display against Florentine in Florence, his derby record is shameful yet you and other put him on a pedestal that he doesn't deserve. I used to be like you but after this lot he has lost my support totally.

 

Can you tell me why he won't tell us all what the problem has been with the contract, what does it matter if he is going to sign now.............................it is constant change of excuse none of it rings true to me. Is he worth £65,000 a week, no possibly about £40/45,000 which may be about average. I am now certain that Moyes cannot take us forward because he doesn't know how simple as that.

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Carl. we are up to our eyes in debt, Messi wouldn't touch us with a barge pole even if we offered him twice that so there is no weight to your argument at all.

 

Is Moyes worth that type of money, he would need to have won us something, to have won a game of note year in year out and he hasn't. I had hoped that we had done with his roller coaster seasons, I thought there was light at the end of the tunnel, there isn't. At present he is the manager of a team with one of the poorest defences in the COUNTRY, not just the prem, what cup runs have we had, last years Carling cup was a joke as soon as we got put against a big club we were beaten embarrassingly so. This seasons form is nothing new, remember the atrocious display against Florentine in Florence, his derby record is shameful yet you and other put him on a pedestal that he doesn't deserve. I used to be like you but after this lot he has lost my support totally.

 

Can you tell me why he won't tell us all what the problem has been with the contract, what does it matter if he is going to sign now.............................it is constant change of excuse none of it rings true to me. Is he worth £65,000 a week, no possibly about £40/45,000 which may be about average. I am now certain that Moyes cannot take us forward because he doesn't know how simple as that.

You will not be happy untill you get your way and he goes,come out and name the man you want, if its Irvine say so, and list his qualities and how much you would pay him

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You will not be happy untill you get your way and he goes,come out and name the man you want, if its Irvine say so, and list his qualities and how much you would pay him

 

 

Lets try Boloni just for starters, he could see our tactics were to say the least quaint more like naive the other night. Paul Ince has out witted him twice this season, he's been a manager for how long and with what experience so don't be so bloody stupid to even suggest Moyes is irreplacable because like any manager he isn't and that is a fact.

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Lets try Boloni just for starters, he could see our tactics were to say the least quaint more like naive the other night. Paul Ince has out witted him twice this season, he's been a manager for how long and with what experience so don't be so bloody stupid to even suggest Moyes is irreplacable because like any manager he isn't and that is a fact.

let's see where Everton and Blackburn end up at the close of the season then we can judge who is the better manager. To say Ince outwitted him twice is pushing it, Blackburn played the worst Everton team in about 5 years on the opening game of the season, we had Rodwell and Jags in midfield and even then Blackburn only won in the last minute with a goal that was offside. If it wasn't for Lescott we probably would have won and as I said, we had an absolutely abysmal team out. A manager is judged over the season, not 7-10 games. Man Utd are typically poor starters, but the invariably always end up first or second.

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let's see where Everton and Blackburn end up at the close of the season then we can judge who is the better manager. To say Ince outwitted him twice is pushing it, Blackburn played the worst Everton team in about 5 years on the opening game of the season, we had Rodwell and Jags in midfield and even then Blackburn only won in the last minute with a goal that was offside. If it wasn't for Lescott we probably would have won and as I said, we had an absolutely abysmal team out. A manager is judged over the season, not 7-10 games. Man Utd are typically poor starters, but the invariably always end up first or second.

 

Who won those games and far more easily than any one would have thought? Come on Carl what about Boloni, he must have pissed himself laughing at our tactics last week talk about come into the garden said the spider to the fly we were that predictable it was an embarrassment and it was Moyes master plan. Remember I'm saying that Darling Davie can be replaced and that is an undoubted fact.

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you will soon learn jim, your opinion doesnt matter. we have some elite blues on here who know more than you, live with it :lol:

 

 

Name names, Steve..................................... Its getting to the point where some will start asking for his head.

 

What was it last week, yes I'll sign by the weekend, this week it will be after the intwernational break, he is lying through the back of his teeth and he thinks we the fans will just accept any bloody thing he says, HE IS NOT IRREPLACEABLE

 

What gets me is he keeps making so many fucking stupid excuses, I've been concentrating on team matters is a belter, what fucking team is that. Bloody hell £65,000 a week for cocking up, my arse.

 

By the way did you notice that Manny is scoring at will for Valencia, skippering that side and getting rave reviews, and Moyes didn't want him for how much?

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Name names, Steve..................................... Its getting to the point where some will start asking for his head.

 

What was it last week, yes I'll sign by the weekend, this week it will be after the intwernational break, he is lying through the back of his teeth and he thinks we the fans will just accept any bloody thing he says, HE IS NOT IRREPLACEABLE

 

What gets me is he keeps making so many fucking stupid excuses, I've been concentrating on team matters is a belter, what fucking team is that. Bloody hell £65,000 a week for cocking up, my arse.

 

By the way did you notice that Manny is scoring at will for Valencia, skippering that side and getting rave reviews, and Moyes didn't want him for how much?

we are not saying he is irreplaceable no-one is, it is just some of us do not want him to go could you answer this question? would you sack him to-day?On Manny, along with a lot of Evertonians i have seen nearly every game he played for us,i did like him, but opinion was very split between us, i personally would not have taken a gamble on him, an awfull lot of people were just not sure of him and the number of times he played for us, he should have convinced us totally that he deserved a contract. also interestingly no premiership club came in for him.

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we are not saying he is irreplaceable no-one is, it is just some of us do not want him to go could you answer this question? would you sack him to-day?On Manny, along with a lot of Evertonians i have seen nearly every game he played for us,i did like him, but opinion was very split between us, i personally would not have taken a gamble on him, an awfull lot of people were just not sure of him and the number of times he played for us, he should have convinced us totally that he deserved a contract. also interestingly no premiership club came in for him.

 

then the same can be said for fellaini, he was a risk, cost more than manny, manny spoke the language and already knew the system we played, no other club came in for fellaini too. any player is a risk.

 

not gettin on fellainis case there, just a comparison.

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then the same can be said for fellaini, he was a risk, cost more than manny, manny spoke the language and already knew the system we played, no other club came in for fellaini too. any player is a risk.

 

not gettin on fellainis case there, just a comparison.

fair point,it is just Manny did have a good chance to impress but i dont think he fully grasped, it the other thing against him was possibly his size,Moyes did say we were short of a bigger physical presence in the midfield area, maybe that went against him.Only time will tell on this one

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Name names, Steve..................................... Its getting to the point where some will start asking for his head.

 

What was it last week, yes I'll sign by the weekend, this week it will be after the intwernational break, he is lying through the back of his teeth and he thinks we the fans will just accept any bloody thing he says, HE IS NOT IRREPLACEABLE

 

What gets me is he keeps making so many fucking stupid excuses, I've been concentrating on team matters is a belter, what fucking team is that. Bloody hell £65,000 a week for cocking up, my arse.

 

By the way did you notice that Manny is scoring at will for Valencia, skippering that side and getting rave reviews, and Moyes didn't want him for how much?

 

Really? He has only scored 1 goal this season for Valencia.

http://www.skysports.com/football/player/0..._288661,00.html

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David Villa is the Man for Valencia 10 goals in 8 starts and 2 sub appearances.

 

Competition .. Team ..... Apps.... goals

First Round Valencia...... (2) ...... 1

Spain Primera Valencia... 6 (0)... 6

Group 5 ........ Spain ...... 2 (0)... 3

Total ............................. 8+(2)...10 goals

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You will not be happy untill you get your way and he goes,come out and name the man you want, if its Irvine say so, and list his qualities and how much you would pay him

 

So, purely hypothetically here mind, who would we want to replace Moyes? And assuming the takeover goes through, would we want some big name foreign manager? Personally, i wouldn't - I think too many clubs (the RS included) have sold their traditions as clubs down the river for a foreign manager, I'd prefer someone closer to home who has more of an idea what we're about. And while we're on the subject, I wouldn't want some big-name former Man Utd player in either - why do so many teams in the Prem assume that top-class players will maker top class managers, and give them jobs at the drop of the hat just coz they happened to play for Utd/Arsenal/Chelsea etc? Paul Ince managing blackburn is like us appoining Steve McManaman - now that would cause a riot!

 

Personally, i'd go for a manager who has proven himself in the Championship, bringing teams to the Prem and holding their own on a tight budget, working on the basis of a close-knit, well-organised side the way all of our best sides have played in the past 30 years. Irvine? Wait to see what he can do at Preston first, too early at minute. Jewell or Allardyce? Jewell's one of us so I'ms ure he'd jump at it, not sure about the quality of football him or big sam play though. Tony Mowbray? Well, why not - he certainly plays the right type of football and has got West Brom playing much more attractive stuff than us, with better players I think he could be a top manager. Any one who can get a side to win the Championship, probably the most physical league in Europe, playing the kind of football West Brom play gets my respect. (Same goes for Steve Coppell, by the way). Phil Brown? Well his CVs getting better and better, although Hull are undoubtedly on the crest of the wave at the moment, one that's lasted a year now - be interesting to see how well he does when they hit a dip in form. Aidy Boothroyd? Still relatively inexperienced but very well respected, apparently an awesome motivator and likes football played the proper way too.

 

Anyway, that'd be my shortlist, I'll throw it to the dogs :D

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i like moyes, i dont want him to go, and i dont think us losing is his fault alone...but he is culpable and needs to take responsibility for the team...i think a lot of us should stop bitching to be honest.....many teams would kill to have moyes a man who brought us to european more years than not in his tenure, and im sure will get us out of a rut this season...

 

people are too fickle nowadays, when something goes wrong they shift the blame onto someone and try and use that to admonish the mistakes theyve made...at the end of the day its down to the XI on the pitch, and as a fan whether we play shit or play amazing, ill be singing its a grand old team til my voice is hoarse because thats what being a fan is......

 

Shit happens, sometimes it comes in storms, were in the eye of the storm at the moment, deal with it for fucks sake

 

moyes will either sign a contract or leave, well cross that bridge when we come to it, well either get taken over now or further down the line, well deal with that when we come to it, but its still 3 months to the transfer window and weve still got a lot of big games with the same players so im focusing on rooting for my team to do the best they can and get as many points as they can before christmas ;)

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i like moyes, i dont want him to go, and i dont think us losing is his fault alone...but he is culpable and needs to take responsibility for the team...i think a lot of us should stop bitching to be honest.....many teams would kill to have moyes a man who brought us to european more years than not in his tenure, and im sure will get us out of a rut this season...

 

people are too fickle nowadays, when something goes wrong they shift the blame onto someone and try and use that to admonish the mistakes theyve made...at the end of the day its down to the XI on the pitch, and as a fan whether we play shit or play amazing, ill be singing its a grand old team til my voice is hoarse because thats what being a fan is......

 

Shit happens, sometimes it comes in storms, were in the eye of the storm at the moment, deal with it for fucks sake

 

moyes will either sign a contract or leave, well cross that bridge when we come to it, well either get taken over now or further down the line, well deal with that when we come to it, but its still 3 months to the transfer window and weve still got a lot of big games with the same players so im focusing on rooting for my team to do the best they can and get as many points as they can before christmas ;)

 

I've seen storms and I've seen shit. what is being served up by good class players at Goodison Park should not be happening but is and that makes it far far worse. You say Moyes will either sign or leave so while he dithers we got further down the pan, that is unacceptable to me the fan and to the lads that play for him. His mealy mouthed statements are becoming a joke, most people would jump at what hes got on the table for a weeks work to be their annual salary but he still hasn't signed. Fuck him off if he hasn't signed by a given deadline, my club is far bigger than that dithering git, once gone we can move on. The shit he came out with to Sky at the weekend was a joke, I will tell you why I haven't signed followed by five minutes waffle without any positive statement, you may be prepared to risk the future of our club I'm not.

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I've seen storms and I've seen shit. what is being served up by good class players at Goodison Park should not be happening but is and that makes it far far worse. You say Moyes will either sign or leave so while he dithers we got further down the pan, that is unacceptable to me the fan and to the lads that play for him. His mealy mouthed statements are becoming a joke, most people would jump at what hes got on the table for a weeks work to be their annual salary but he still hasn't signed. Fuck him off if he hasn't signed by a given deadline, my club is far bigger than that dithering git, once gone we can move on. The shit he came out with to Sky at the weekend was a joke, I will tell you why I haven't signed followed by five minutes waffle without any positive statement, you may be prepared to risk the future of our club I'm not.

 

Forgive me for thinking that having moyes as our manager isn't a risk to our future, but rather securing it for our club. You're right he is not bigger than the club, and we need someone who is going to ensure that everton remain a dominant force for years to come, looking at the work moyes has done it isn't unrealistic to say that he can take us where we want to go? To you maybe, but you seem to think that because he's demanding more money he must be a money grubbing bastard we don't need and get someone for cheaper who will do a better job...so far the examples youve provided of who could take over dont instill me with confidence, or make me think that they will lead the club to new glory, they make me think of damage control, of managing a team to break even and hit the top 10 but no further up. We should be aiming for the top, moyes got us 4th and 5th and then 5th again, are you saying someone else could have done/will do meteorically better with the players and money we have?

 

if this is all about the money his contract costs then ultimately, you have to question how much you think moyes has done for the club. if you think a hell of a lot like me, then ill be happy to pay him if he gets us equal to or greater results than past seasons, if you think hes done sweet fa for us then yes you want him to go, but it seems that the contract talk and bad performances have unfortunately collided, and given fans an easy get-out argument for when people pin them down and say "why are we doing so shit?" oh it must be moyes' fault!

 

Of course it couldnt have anything to do with the fact that through injury and lack of transfer funds our squad was thinner than a bolemic water biscuit and that most of the players that have come back off injury havent been at 100%, im fed up of people putting all our poor form on moyes shoulders....at the end of the day the players on the pitch have to do the work, and i dont think theres a magic formula to why we are losing or how to win...weve conceeded lots of goals because our defending has been poor, our midfielers dont track back enough, and we hoof the ball too much giving the opponents an easy run, moyes is trying to correct this and we are improving slowly but surely, too later to stay int he uefa cup, but i dont think weve got a strong enough team to win a europe cup in any regard, not yet at least, if we had made some bigger moes over summer then maybe....

 

I think moyes is capable enough to get us to a higher level and that we would do well to hang onto him, all we need is a bit more shrewd business, a lot more improvement on the pitch, and a good kick up the arse...all of which we can give ourselves

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At times I've thought Moyes was a brilliant manager, at other times I've scratched my head at some of his tactics.He has changed Evertons fortunes in the last few years, a 4th and a 5th are out of most teams grasp.I hope he's still learning and can get better, if he can I hope it's with us.

 

Is he irreplaceable.....NO!

 

Where did he come from?......from the lower divisions.It could hapen again, most of us had never heard of Moyes when he came.It's not about names, it's about heart, vision and character, add in a bit of luck and there's your new manager.

 

Moyes is still young for a manager, and he still makes fuck up's!!....don't we all!

 

He's going to sign the contract..........I just hope by the new year were not asking is he really worth it.

 

He can sign players and he can pick them to play! he can't make them perform.That's up to the players.

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Forgive me for thinking that having moyes as our manager isn't a risk to our future, but rather securing it for our club. You're right he is not bigger than the club, and we need someone who is going to ensure that everton remain a dominant force for years to come, looking at the work moyes has done it isn't unrealistic to say that he can take us where we want to go? To you maybe, but you seem to think that because he's demanding more money he must be a money grubbing bastard we don't need and get someone for cheaper who will do a better job...so far the examples youve provided of who could take over dont instill me with confidence, or make me think that they will lead the club to new glory, they make me think of damage control, of managing a team to break even and hit the top 10 but no further up. We should be aiming for the top, moyes got us 4th and 5th and then 5th again, are you saying someone else could have done/will do meteorically better with the players and money we have?

 

if this is all about the money his contract costs then ultimately, you have to question how much you think moyes has done for the club. if you think a hell of a lot like me, then ill be happy to pay him if he gets us equal to or greater results than past seasons, if you think hes done sweet fa for us then yes you want him to go, but it seems that the contract talk and bad performances have unfortunately collided, and given fans an easy get-out argument for when people pin them down and say "why are we doing so shit?" oh it must be moyes' fault!

 

Of course it couldnt have anything to do with the fact that through injury and lack of transfer funds our squad was thinner than a bolemic water biscuit and that most of the players that have come back off injury havent been at 100%, im fed up of people putting all our poor form on moyes shoulders....at the end of the day the players on the pitch have to do the work, and i dont think theres a magic formula to why we are losing or how to win...weve conceeded lots of goals because our defending has been poor, our midfielers dont track back enough, and we hoof the ball too much giving the opponents an easy run, moyes is trying to correct this and we are improving slowly but surely, too later to stay int he uefa cup, but i dont think weve got a strong enough team to win a europe cup in any regard, not yet at least, if we had made some bigger moes over summer then maybe....

 

I think moyes is capable enough to get us to a higher level and that we would do well to hang onto him, all we need is a bit more shrewd business, a lot more improvement on the pitch, and a good kick up the arse...all of which we can give ourselves

 

That is a prime example of what I have been saying, he is overrated, that Emperor has no clothes. What has he done, what has won, whenever we get to a big game we flop. Look at our record against the so called big four, it a bloody joke, Phil Brown takes Hull to Highbury once and wins. He is not the big winner you lot make him out to be. wow we've won qualification for Europe three times getting pushed out in the first round twice. We made a semi final of the Carling cup and gave in against Chelsea. Moyes has had more money to spend than the majority of managers in the Prem so that excuse doesn't wash either and as for tactics, predictable in the extreme. Some supporters see fit to moan about Fellaini, I think he could make it but was he worth £15 mil, was he fuck but who spent it, Mr fucking Moyes.

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That is a prime example of what I have been saying, he is overrated, that Emperor has no clothes. What has he done, what has won, whenever we get to a big game we flop. Look at our record against the so called big four, it a bloody joke, Phil Brown takes Hull to Highbury once and wins. He is not the big winner you lot make him out to be. wow we've won qualification for Europe three times getting pushed out in the first round twice. We made a semi final of the Carling cup and gave in against Chelsea. Moyes has had more money to spend than the majority of managers in the Prem so that excuse doesn't wash either and as for tactics, predictable in the extreme. Some supporters see fit to moan about Fellaini, I think he could make it but was he worth £15 mil, was he fuck but who spent it, Mr fucking Moyes.

Jim your posts are becoming erratic, they are like demented rantings and are not far off being offensive,fifth in the premiership and the four teams above us how much did they spend?it was a great effort by Moyes and the team whether you like it or not.you cannot be right all the time Jim,and there are other intelligent people on here who have a point of view and a right to challenge your opinions.

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Jim your posts are becoming erratic, they are like demented rantings and are not far off being offensive,fifth in the premiership and the four teams above us how much did they spend?it was a great effort by Moyes and the team whether you like it or not.you cannot be right all the time Jim,and there are other intelligent people on here who have a point of view and a right to challenge your opinions.

 

and this discussion isn't really about right and wrong it's whether we believe moyes should stay or go based on his new contract, some think he should some don't....and personally i like to hear people's viewpoints on the subject, but i would hardly throw our inability in the face of moyes, i'd rather say the other team played better on the day and we were unforutnate. Losing to chelsea isn't like losing to havant and waterlooville, chelsea are a bloody brilliant team, and we have to acknowledge our strengths.

 

My point jim about us getting into europe was that the only teams above us are the big 4, which is saying something. Its hard to compete at their level and we should be glad of the vast improvements moyes has made.

 

This is about the future, and moyes has made such significant progress that we are incredibly dissapointed were not in europe again, which in itself speaks volumes about how far we've come. I think there's too much criticism going on, especially when we don't have another manager who the majority of the fans would feel confident leading the club to higher places....maybe phil brown but that would never happen.

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you will soon learn jim, your opinion doesnt matter. we have some elite blues on here who know more than you, live with it :lol:

How about we stick to the football debate rather than making sly digs or belittling people?

 

Now moving on and back to the topic, great posts Regulator, I agree with all 3 of those posts 100%, particularly the fickle bit and the alternatives to Moyes not exactly instilling me with confidence.

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